English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] No whitespace in answer: Tense change: previous actions on something that's currently true by Suusan on english.stackexchange.com

Tonepoet

3:10 AM

This is probably going to sound like a stupid question but my rep. went down by 2 and the system is not reporting why. I would expect it to show me which answer was affected by a down vote, so I am assuming it is not that. My best bet other than that, is that a suggested edit I made in the past was deleted somehow, and the associated rep. bonus went alongside it. Is that a possible reason for it?

tchrist

I work too hard.

0

A: A cool way to ask if someone is "cool"

From 23 skidoo to kickin’ it — and beyond! You’ve asked for “a cool way to ask if someone is cool”, something with the same feel to it as seen in the Brazilian Portuguese slang expression suave na nave. Although translated literally that short snipped might render something along the lines of “c...

Tonepoet

3:35 AM

@tchrist The relationship of the answer to the question is a little too incidental in my personal opinion, especially the second half, since you didn't make a corresponding proposal (See ya later, alligator, although a good example of the prosody, means something entirely different and since this person is a beginner, you should probably note that). It's still interesting to read though.

tchrist

I couldn't come up with anything that was a rhyming bit that meant the same thing.

Asking for short, pithy, popular, contemporary slang that means all those things is probably asking too much.

Tonepoet

That's probably the case. I will note that both suave and smooth have similar meanings in English though.

tchrist

I think you've misunderstood what he is asking.

Because you've misunderstood the meaning of is here, Mr President.

He wants to know whether someone’s playin’ it cool not whether they’re a cool person.

I’m certain his brain was thinking estar for that "is" in his title, not thinking ser.

State versus essence.

He's just interested in the state.

And yes, both essence and ser derive from the same Latin verb esse, just as both state and estar also derive from the same Latin verb stare. That’s why I picked those two for pairing.

Tonepoet

Maybe I'm just too sleepy. XP

tchrist

essence

Noun: essence ‎(countable and uncountable, plural essences)

The inherent nature of a thing or idea.
Landor
The laws are at present, both in form and essence, the greatest curse that society labours under.
Addison
Gifts and alms are the expressions, not the essence of this virtue [charity].

(21 more not shown…)

See Figure One.

:)

@Tonepoet Fixed in the next release.

Tonepoet

3:56 AM

Well let's discuss this a little more. Nature in this sense probably refers to definition no. 2:

nature

Noun: nature ‎(countable and uncountable, plural natures)

(uncountable) The natural world; that which consists of all things unaffected by or predating human technology, production, and design. e.g. the ecosystem, the natural environment, virgin ground, unmodified species, laws of nature.
Nature never lies (i.e. tells untruths).
Thomas Macaulay (1800-1859)
Nature has caprices which art cannot imitate.
1891, Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

(37 more not shown…)

Verb: nature ‎(third-person singular simple present natures, present participle naturing, simple past and past participle natured)

(obsolete) To endow with natural qualities.

Adverb: nature

naturally

Adjective: nature m, f ‎(plural natures)

plain, unseasoned
Une brioche nature ou sucrée ?
File-moi un yaourt nature s’il te plait.
bareback, raw dog
Une fellation nature.

(2 more not shown…)

Why doesn't that resemble the actual page?

tchrist

Because it skips down to what it thinks are the definitions not the front-matter.

Tonepoet

Coughcough, I meant this one "2. The innate characteristics of a thing. What something will tend by its own constitution, to be or do. Distinct from what might be expected or intended."

Tonepoet

4:08 AM

If you can accept the innate characteristics of something as being part of its state of being, that references back to its condition and hence its state.

I suppose the distinction you're trying to make is more of a nature vs. nurture distinction though. That which is immutable as compared to that which is conditional.

user227867

@Tonepoet Maybe a post you edited got deleted.

user227867

@Tonepoet Wiktionary is not to be trusted as much.

Tonepoet

@WillHunting I'm using wiktionary because tchrist used it, which tacitly makes it a fair arbiter of meaning for the debate. As much as I prefer Webster's, most people in this chatroom would deign it ridiculous to use a 188 year old dictionary to settle anything...

user227867

@Tonepoet I now prefer AHD forever, lol.

Tonepoet

@WillHunting I'm the one to blame for that. >_>

user227867

4:23 AM

@Tonepoet Yes, I blame you for many things. <_<

Tonepoet

Maybe if I'm lucky I can get more people to reference the Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia, if not only because it's one of the principle sources of The Online Etymology Dictionary.

The good ol' Etymonline is a well respected resource 'round these here parts, I reckon, if not only as the poor man's O.E.D...

user227867

I am not interested in etymology. I think it is rather silly.

user227867

Now now, before an etymologist comes here to scold me, remember that we all find some things silly, don't we?

user227867

And it's alright to find yourself silly too, and laugh at yourself. Have a good laugh.

user227867

You all have fun laughing, bye.

Tonepoet

4:35 AM

Hmm...

SmokeDetector

4:54 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer: Is there an informal way to describe a woman that can not have a baby? by Michelle Morgan on english.stackexchange.com

Tonepoet

@tchrist It's spam. Sic it.

It's too bad because as the first flagger commented, it looked like it could've gone somewhere if it actually had an answer in it.

Færd

6:46 AM

@tchrist It's been /sɑːri/ (like starry) for me so far. I hope it's not too singular or suggestive of an ill-spoken, ill-speaking group.

user227867

8:58 AM

I wish people will stop upvoting my "knowledge worker" answer; it's ridiculous.

Matt E. Эллен

9:40 AM

signs up 100 sock accounts to upvote the answer

user227867

10:33 AM

reports above to the SE employees to dethrone moderator

Matt E. Эллен

11:25 AM

:-o oh no! I have been caught

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: A word meaning "to have a definition, but no term" by Shankensteinium on english.stackexchange.com

Justyna Nogala

2:04 PM

"The illustrative materials used in this study are of mixed status: some are taken from respectable researches where qualified generalisations are given concerning reliably recorded regularities" Can something be concerning and reliable at the same time?

Matt E. Эллен

concerning is similar to regarding there

Justyna Nogala

oh

it's obvious now

thx ;D

Matt E. Эллен

2:19 PM

np

user227867

2:33 PM

My answer got migrated to ELL, but since I have an account there, I lost no points. I merely transferred cash from one bank to another, LOL.

user227867

I guess people on ELU stopped downvoting me so much after realising that I was going to delete my account anyway, LOL.

tchrist

@Araucaria Given your recent edit, I wondered whether you're working on an answer to this which involves compound predicates governed by a single subject, coördinating conjunctions, and how negated auxiliaries like doesn’t function as single “fused” negative verbs not just in subject–verb inversion but also here, and how that reading conflicts with the not only...but also one?

Reg of course deftly sidesteps the ambiguity.

I don't have time this morning to provide the full answer I’ve briefly outlined above, but I hope someone does.

Færd

3:37 PM

This is your source. It's called ELU. Use it as your reference. — RegDwigнt ♦ 2 hours ago

Haha. And he's a mod.

tchrist

I suppose that’s not quite the same as saying that John Lawler or Arnold Zwicky posting here is ipso facto a citable reference.

Færd

Of course not.

tchrist

@Færd For me, sorry is [ˈsoɻi] and forms a minimal pair with sari [ˈsɑɻi/]:

Sari

A sari, saree, or shari is a female garment from the Indian subcontinent that consists of a drape varying from five to nine yards (4.5 metres to 8 metres) in length and two to four feet (60 cm to 1.20 m) in breadth that is typically wrapped around the waist, with one end draped over the shoulder, baring the midriff. There are various styles of sari draping, the most common being the Nivi style, which originated in Andhra Pradesh. The sari is usually worn over a petticoat (called 'parkar' (परकर) in Marathi lahaṅgā or lehenga in the north; pavadai (பாவாடை) in Tamil, pavada (or occasionally langa...

So imagine you find someone who is full of sores all over their body. That sore-y condition sounds just like sorry for me. :)

Færd

I hope you won't be sorry ever then.

I don't know why I think I've not heard that before. Maybe I didn't pay attention.

tchrist

In contrast, tomorrow is more often closer to phonemic /ɑ/. Any rounding is a learned trait.

Then again there are two ways to say the middle vowel of Chicago as well, one being the FATHER vowel and the other the CLOTH vowel.

Færd

3:48 PM

Yours is the CLOTH one, right?

tchrist

Usually not. It depends on whether I want to sound like I’m from Milwaukee or Chicago. :)

Færd

I would've continued saying harrible if it hadn't been for that harrible/horrible question.

I'm so inconsistent in pronunciation.

tchrist

I hate harrible.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Hm, I really dislike "It does not fly but hop". to me, it's ungrammatical.

tchrist

Now that I’ve heard Trunt say harrible.

Færd

3:54 PM

I don't know who Trunt are, but I'm sure I had picked it up from somewhere, so I had heard it.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The claim is that there is a hidden does behind hop, but I don't know how that works, because the two doeses are different.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Færd yeah I don't buy it.

tchrist

@Færd I’m being catty. Mr Shiny probably knows whom I meant, and why.

Otherwise we may have to summon the Englanders.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist Sorry, I'm not getting it. What's the a in harrible? like hat, or like hot?

Færd

36

Q: Why do I pronounce "horrible" so harrhibly?

With Friends Like These A few months ago, a couple good friends brought up a topic they know I disdain, and kept prodding me for my opinion on it. They wouldn't let up, until finally I proclaimed "[It's] terrible!", to which they replied, scheming, "Don't you mean horrible?", and I said, "Yeah, ...

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Like hot.

Hillary’s hambriento opponent pronounces it thus.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:02 PM

ah, okay, that's who I was guessing you were speaking of.

Færd

You were referring to his leaked remark about his way of womanizing, right?

Maybe not, but an Urban Dic. posting says trunt = to kick in the c*nt.

Never mind. I'm bad at cracking wisecracks.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Isn't it sort of neither because the 'r' colors it so much?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch well... maybe?

Mitch

@Færd There's just so much going on that you picked the other one. I think (I may eqully be wrong) that he is referring to the bad hombres' comment. Which some people think (not me!) was pronounced 'hambres' (but I have trouble distinguishing them).

tchrist

@Færd I was simply denigrating her opponent by calling a spade a spade.

Mitch

4:10 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 haha, I made it so you can't answer easily.

@tchrist golf clap

wait...he didn't say any black pejoratives did he?

tchrist

Figgas.

Mitch

I thought it was mean of people to jump on that newscaster for using 'colored people' instead of 'people of color'. She's too young to have known how to use it pejoratively. It was just a syntactic slip.

terdon

@tchrist Ouch. So many interpretations of that one. In so many languages. From figa to niggah.

Mitch

Let her apologize and be done with it.

@terdon how does 'figa' figger into it?

terdon

@Mitch It means cunt in Italian. Maybe Portuguese too.

Mitch

4:14 PM

@terdon Oh.

Is there a 'cat' version in Italian for that?

terdon

Dunno

You can call it a rabbit (conejo) in Spanish. Will that do?

tchrist

Non vale una figga secca.

Mitch

@terdon takes notes

terdon

Good. There will be a test later.

Mitch

@tchrist astroglide?

@terdon Nice.

Færd

4:19 PM

Can I take that test too?

> Did you drive to work?

> No, I prefer walking / to walk.

tchrist

That's not a test.

Nor does it matter.

Færd

@tchrist terdon's test? Yeah, I know.

tchrist

I prefix X.

Færd

When talking about general preference, is the gerund participle not preferred?

Mitch

Pussy Riot | Full Frontal with Samantha Bee | TBS

►

Færd

4:33 PM

"I prefer to walk." sounds more like "I'd like to have a walk right now.". But I may well be mistaken.

Mitch

@Færd yes. not strongly but that feeling is there

Færd

@Mitch So it is possible to use prefer + infinitive to talk about general preference after all?

So I guess the answer to my original question is that both are possible. Good to know.

MetaEd

Happy United Nations Day!

Mitch

4:52 PM

@Færd "Do you you like to drive to work?" "No, I like to bike."

@MetaEd That's discriminatory. Don't you feel bad for all the countries who can't get in to the UN? Th breakaway public of Inner Liechtenstein. That guy's private island. That other guy (he just nationalized himself). But think of how it creates job for language translators.

MetaEd

@Mitch Doch.

terdon

5:22 PM

@Mitch Yeah, or Raven from Snowcrash.

Mitch

6:04 PM

@terdon I still haven't read that.

tchrist

7:30 PM

Matte email

Matty mail

Mad team ale

Matty mail

Mad email

Calm email

Call me male

Calmy mail

@MattE.Эллен may yull

Matty may yell

Mad 'e may yell

Mad eam ailment

Calm ale

Call male

Call mail

Calm mail

Call me Al

anongoodnurse

9:25 PM

@AndrewLeach - A question if I may from one mod (albeit on another site) to another, precipitated by a recent question in meta: what were your thoughts when you closed but did not delete this?

0

Q: Who caused the bite of 87

Is foxy the animatronic that caused the bite of 87 or is it Fredbear from Fredbear's family diner

grammar nouns vocabulary

Just curious. As it did not get sufficiently downvoted, there was no opportunity to vote to delete.

I would understand letting the community do this, as this is a large community. However, the community doesn't usually make the effort to do so. (Or am I mistaken?)

Andrew Leach

@anongoodnurse I normally let the community or Community delete things. Community catches up on the community if the latter doesn't do it.

anongoodnurse

10:09 PM

@AndrewLeach Thanks. Interesting, because Community deleted a post before my very eyes within minutes of posting; I had time to cast a downvote and it was gone. And it was about English. The question above was kinda nonsensical. Technology is a complete mystery to me.

Andrew Leach

@anongoodnurse Community will delete a post if its owner's account is destroyed for posting nonsense.

The bite post isn't nonsense, just on the wrong site. The right site may know what it's about.

Fine line, perhaps. Perhaps I've drawn it in the wrong place, or I'm the wrong side of it.

Feel free to cast a delete vote to put it in the right review queue. Perhaps you already have.

anongoodnurse

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. ! Makes sense. Thanks.

@AndrewLeach I can't cast a delete vote as it is not downvoted enough, nor has (48?) hours passed.

tchrist

Correct.

user227867

@anongoodnurse Hello S. It is J here.

anongoodnurse

@WillHunting Hello to you! How are you?

Jasper, do you keep up with Cyril? Do you know how he's doing?

user227867

10:20 PM

@anongoodnurse Still the same, trying to get better. Are you still doing part-time or full-time or no-time?

user227867

@anongoodnurse Nope, I am not that close to him.

anongoodnurse

@WillHunting No-time. Quit because I'm having a bit of trouble with my memory; it doesn't seem to worry anyone else, but it worries me. I made some mistakes I would never have made before. Ç'est la vie.

user227867

@anongoodnurse Are you losing your memory slowly because of an illness?

anongoodnurse

Yes, I think I have very early dementia. My kids think so too. My doctor isn't the brightest bulb on the string; when I told her a very telling episode, she made a diagnosis of "amnesia". Amnesia? Lol!

user227867

LOL. Quit your doctor, and see another, one trained by me, LOL.

anongoodnurse

10:25 PM

Do you think, J, if you just pretended you were well enough to get out and do stuff, you might actually feel you were getting better?

@WillHunting Too funny! It's not easy being a doctor and a patient.

user227867

@anongoodnurse I am very, very sorry to hear you have this problem. I hope that you will find a way to live well until the end of this life.

user227867

@anongoodnurse Well, I am well enough to do some stuff, but not so to do other stuff. I do my own stuff at home, though it is not work that earns money. I will see how it goes and take things as they come.

anongoodnurse

@WillHunting Interestingly, it bothered me a lot while I was working; the fact that I might harm someone weighed pretty heavily on me. Now that I'm not making those kind of decisions, it doesn't really scare me too much.

Which is very common with dementia. ;)

user227867

@anongoodnurse I see. Well, don't worry too much. There is a life beyond this one. You can look forward to that as well, while living this one fully.

anongoodnurse

@WillHunting I have the same hope for you.

user227867

10:30 PM

@anongoodnurse I remember you are Christian. One day, I might get the New Oxford Annotated Bible just to study it from a scholarly point of view. I hear it is the best translation (NRSV) together with notes.

anongoodnurse

@WillHunting I'm not totally convinced. Reincarnation seems like a punishment. I'm not sure I've lived a good enough life to come back as a human. Heaven sounds nice if it's there.

I like the New American Standard version. Reads well with poetry intact.

user227867

@anongoodnurse You can be reborn in the heavens too, in Buddhism, in case you did not know. Then you will be called a god, different from the God in the Abrahamic religions.

user227867

@anongoodnurse When I said life beyond this one, I meant it whether you are Christian or Buddhist.

anongoodnurse

@WillHunting I did not know that. Clearly I should read more about Buddhism (a way of living that I am sympathetic to); on the other hand, if we all lived as commanded in the NT, we would all be happier as well.

@WillHunting Understood.

user227867

@anongoodnurse There are many things people don't know about Buddhism, because its texts are hard to find and it is hard to interpret and understand. Never read works by quacks. For a one volume work, I recommend 'In the Buddha's words' by Bodhi. This is a summary of the canonical text, which you can read the main part of by getting four books: the Long/Middle Length/Connected/Numerical Discourses of the Buddha published by Wisdom Publications and available at a good price on Amazon US.

user227867

10:38 PM

@anongoodnurse Happiness is one thing, but to me, other than finding happiness, truth is also what I seek, and continue to seek.

user227867

Jesus says 'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.'

user227867

Buddha says 'There are three things whose light cannot be quenched: the sun, the moon, and the Dhamma.'

anongoodnurse

Thank you for your recommendation. I did find a translation online once after having a discussion with you, which I liked, until they started to discuss demons. o_O. Be well, Jasper. Do think about taking some risks. I found in medicine that doing things that made me uncomfortable were my best growth experiences. :) And I will read more of Buddha's teachings. :)

CU

user227867

@anongoodnurse Thank you. Take care. See you.

user227867

May all sentient beings be freed from all suffering.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…