English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

12:07 AM

@DannyuNDos How does that differ from a mandarin or a tangerine?

Dannyu NDos

Dunno; just looked up to mandarins and tangerines, and they both look like 귤 gyul to me.

Robusto

12:42 AM

@DannyuNDos The text size in chat is so small I thought that was some form of 言.

Dannyu NDos

Lmao

jlliagre

@tchrist Misère? Why not économiseur/économie/œconomia/οἰκονομία?

Robusto

Blossom Puzzle, March 25
Letters: E H I N L O S
My score: 391 points
My longest word: 13 letters
💐 💮 🏵 🌸 🌺 🌻 🌷 🌼 🌹 💐 💮 🏵 🌸

tchrist

1:00 AM

@jlliagre Sure, their respective etyma are both ancient but miser was lifted untouched from Latin, whereas economizer never had a verb to go with oeconomia, oeconomicus, οἰκονομία, οἰκονόμος let alone an agent noun derived from that verb. It didn't need to, because the management bit was in the nomos part of the Greek, and Latin never reverbed this into something new like English et alios have.

jlliagre

@tchrist Sorry, I misread your posting.

tchrist

The other word that the (O)E one always brings to mind is the Ecumen, œcumene, Écoumène, οἰκουμένη for the civilized world. Both start with something from οἰκέω and οἶκος, but the Ecumen never had a Latin version.

So economy > economize > economizer all happened within English.

CowperKettle

@NickAlexeev I don't know where I got it from originally, most likely bought in a store. I haven't been in an obshepit canteen for a long time ))

tchrist

@DannyuNDos Well yes; mandarins and clementines and satsumas are all from the tangerine set not from the orange set.

CowperKettle

@NickAlexeev I'll try a bicycle, I only should order some anti-theft alarm to make hue and cry if someone touches the bicycle

tchrist

1:10 AM

@DannyuNDos The preserved "mandarin orange" segments like @CowperKettle showed are certainly tangerines of one sort or another. In this country, they are usually actually satsumas, originally a Japanese cultivar that's hard to get fresh but easy to get tinned/canned/potted/stuck in plastic for kids.

Satsumas are my very favorite of all citrus, perhaps because of the childhood memories of those little segments available year round, unlike the fresh ones.

Old cold jello molds with mandarin oranges in them for picnics.

Or salads.

But you could make them of any mandarin you please.

Citrus names sometimes get lost in translation.

I have both fresh mandarins sitting on my kitchen table and unsugared preserved ones in little containers in the cupboard.

Dannyu NDos

That said... ever eaten a lemon by its own?

tchrist

Of course.

Dannyu NDos

What about a calamansi?

tchrist

But preferably a Meyer lemon, which is actually half lemon and half mandarin. But then again, a lemon is really half lime and half something else, maybe orange or cumquat.

Dannyu NDos

I've drunk calamansi juice, and it was even sourer than lemon.

tchrist

1:16 AM

@DannyuNDos Not sure what that is.

Oh.

Yes, by accident once.

Dannyu NDos

Triangle of U is almighty, in this regard.

tchrist

It was served to me once with fresh fish in Santa Catarina in far southern Brazil. I mistook its orange color for a mandarin, but it is actually a very sour lime.

> Calamansi is a hybrid between kumquat (formerly considered as belonging to a separate genus Fortunella) and another species of Citrus (in this case probably the mandarin orange).

> Citrus × meyeri, the Meyer lemon (Chinese: 梅爾檸檬; pinyin: méiěr níngméng),[1] is a hybrid citrus fruit native to China. It is not a lemon, but is instead a cross between a citron and a mandarin/pomelo hybrid.[2]

Those are very tasty.

> The origin of the lemon is unknown, though lemons are thought to have first grown in Assam (a region in northeast India), northern Myanmar, or China.[2][failed verification] A genomic study of the lemon indicated it was a hybrid between bitter orange (sour orange) and citron.

Around the world there are countless forms of citrus, but few indeed are available worldwide let alone in every market.

@DannyuNDos Not sure that there are more Brassica or more Citrus.

So many of these come to us out of prehistory, some perhaps from pre-Homo.

jlliagre

@tchrist Right. I wrongly interpreted your 'or' so thought you wrote 'economizer' might have been built from misère, which makes no sense. Economiser was possibly coined by Stirling in 1816 or at least popularized by him although 'economize'/*économiser* have existed for a long time.

tchrist

@jlliagre Oh hahah.

> A change in climate conditions during the Late Miocene (11.63 to 5.33 mya)
resulted in a sudden speciation event. The species resulting from this
event include the citrons (Citrus medica) of South Asia; the pomelos
(C. maxima) of Mainland Southeast Asia; the mandarins (C. reticulata),
kumquats (C. japonica), mangshanyegan (C. mangshanensis), and ichang
papedas (C. cavaleriei) of southeastern China; the kaffir limes
(C. hystrix) of Island Southeast Asia; and the biasong and samuyao
(C. micrantha) of the Philippines.[3][4]

Dannyu NDos

And a fun fact: Triangle of U can occur in animals as well. Pampas fox is one example.

tchrist

1:26 AM

@DannyuNDos What do you mean, that they're polyploid? That's as rare in Animalia as it is common in Plantae. But the South American canid speciation is very interesting.

Dannyu NDos

Ah, sorry, I meant the hybrid of them and dogs, called "dogxims".

tchrist

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3568761

> Relative to other members of Canidae, these species have high diploid complements (2n greater than 64) consisting of largely acrocentric chromosomes.

> The Giemsa banding patterns of seven canid species, including the grey
wolf (Canis lupus), the maned wolf (Chrysocyon brachyurus), the bush dog
(Speothos venaticus), the crab-eating fox (Cerdocyon thous), the grey
fox (Urocyon cinereoargenteus), the bat-eared fox (Otocyon megalotis),
and the fennec (Fennecus zerda), are presented and compared. Relative to
other members of Canidae, these species have high diploid complements (2n
greater than 64) consisting of largely acrocentric chromosomes. They show

Canidae crosses work much better if their chromosome counts match. Otherwise you have to invoke Haldane's Law.

As we do with these domestic cats they've been crossing with wilder cats.

That's why only the females are fertile.

At first.

Haldane's rule

Haldane's rule is an observation about the early stage of speciation, formulated in 1922 by the British evolutionary biologist J. B. S. Haldane, that states that if — in a species hybrid — only one sex is inviable or sterile, that sex is more likely to be the heterogametic sex. The heterogametic sex is the one with two different sex chromosomes; in therian mammals, for example, this is the male. == Overview == Haldane himself described the rule as: When in the F1 offspring of two different animal races one sex is absent, rare, or sterile, that sex is the heterozygous sex (heterogametic s...

> Unlike other mammals, monotremes have more than two different sex chromosomes: The platypus has five pairs. Short-beaked echidnas have four pairs plus one female-only chromosome.

> The wolf-like canids are a group of large carnivores that are genetically closely related because they all possess 78 chromosomes, arranged in 39 pairs and are karyologically indistinguishable from each other.[1][2]: p279 [3] The group includes the genera Canis, Cuon, Lupulella and Lycaon.

Canid hybrid

Canid hybrids are the result of interbreeding between the species of the subfamily Caninae. == Genetic considerations == The wolf-like canids are a group of large carnivores that are genetically closely related because they all possess 78 chromosomes, arranged in 39 pairs and are karyologically indistinguishable from each other.: p279 The group includes the genera Canis, Cuon, Lupulella and Lycaon. The members are the domestic dog (C. lupus familiaris), gray wolf (C. lupus), dingo (C. lupus dingo), coyote (C. latrans), golden jackal (C. aureus), African wolf (C. lupaster), Ethiopian wolf...

> When the differences in number and arrangement of chromosomes is too great, hybridization becomes less and less likely. Other members of the wider dog family, Canidae, such as South American canids, true foxes, bat-eared foxes, or raccoon dogs which diverged 7 to 10 million years ago, are less closely related to the wolf-like canids, have fewer chromosomes and cannot hybridize with them.[3] (recently proven, partly incorrect, see pampas fox with dog below)

@DannyuNDos Yes, that's weird and we hadn't thought it possible.

> Crossings between canids of a different genus is extremely rare. In 2021, a female canid with unusual phenotypic characteristics was found in Vacaria City, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil. DNA analysis indicates that the canid was a hybrid between a pampas fox and a domestic dog.[26] Dubbed a 'Dogxim' or 'graxorra',[27] this finding is the first documented case of hybridisation detected between these two species.[26]

> Genetically, the gray fox often clusters with two other ancient lineages: The east Asian raccoon dog (Nyctereutes procyonoides) and the African bat-eared fox (Otocyon megalotis). The chromosome number is 66 (diploid) with a fundamental number of 70.

> The chromosome number ranges from 2n = 34 plus a few B chromosomes in the red fox (Vulpes vulpes) to 2n = 78 in the domestic dog (Canis familiaris) and the gray wolf (Canis lupus).

> The arctic fox has 50 chromosomes (25 per set), and the commonred fox has 38 chromosomes (19 per set). These species can interbreed to produce viable but infertile offspring.

Grey foxes and red foxes just aren't very closely related at all, let alone to arctic foxes.

CowperKettle

@tchrist I also learned that tangerine segments fully stripped of their skin are called supremes.

Supreme (cookery)

The term supreme (also spelled suprême) used in cooking and culinary arts refers to the best part of the food. For poultry, game and fish dishes, supreme denotes a fillet. == Chicken == In professional cookery, the term "chicken supreme" (French: suprême de volaille) is used to describe a boneless, skin-on breast of chicken. If the humerus bone of the wing remains attached, the cut is called "chicken cutlet" (côtelette de volaille). The same cut is used for duck (suprême de canard), and other birds. Chicken supremes can be prepared in many ways. For example, supremes à la Maréchale are treated...

tchrist

1:43 AM

Yes, suprême de volaille was known to me. I don't know that I've seen it in English, though.

Fancy expensive restaurants here that use such terms just leave the French. :)

CowperKettle

Yes. "You can't serve the patron rusks on a plate at $8, but you can serve him croutons for that price easily" (from a Russian comedy movie; a popular quote)

Дефлопе и крутон - официант (О чем говорят мужчины) [+3D]

►

tchrist

Just wait till you run into gaufrettes on a menu. :) I mean the pommes de terre ones.

Not to be confused with stroopwafels.

jlliagre

2:00 AM

Hilarious French.

2:17 AM

2:55 AM

Expression of the day: enshittification of science

M.A.R.

5:14 AM

Trump and Biden seemingly do not even know what they are for. Trump was in favor of banning it on August 6, 2020, and Biden was against banning it on June 9, 2021. It is like a game of musical chairs. — Obie 2.0 7 hours ago

CowperKettle

8:13 AM

I should find some no-skill work in the first half of the day, and do delivery work in the second half. Maybe this way I'll be able to earn enough to stay alive.

CowperKettle

8:28 AM

As it goes, I ordered some medications today, because I've run out of them, and I only have 540 rubles to last until Friday, when the next batch of salary comes.

Dannyu NDos

in The Garbage Collector, 41 mins ago, by Eldritch Conundrum

I call it facade because english doesn't have ç. A word's spelling changes when it's adopted as part of another language

Is this true?

The latter part

CowperKettle

9:12 AM

jlliagre

9:26 AM

@DannyuNDos I guess a majority of people do not consider diacritics to be a mandatory part of a word spelling in English. Some adopted words widely used rarely show them like 'voila' from voilà, or never like 'hotel' or 'apropos' (hôtel, à propos).

jlliagre

10:16 AM

and for a long time, technical limitations prevented diacritics to be used in the first place (typewriters/teletypes/ASCII encoding).

jlliagre

11:30 AM

I was initially surprised to see that banner / language combination.

tchrist

1:03 PM

@DannyuNDos No, they're just dumb.

It would be nice if a word's spelling changed, but it doesn't. We should write nigheve so it doesn't rhyme with waive.

jlliagre

@tchrist Haha

tchrist

1:21 PM

@jlliagre It's a typewriter/typesetting problem. Now compare with handwriting. :)

jlliagre

@tchrist Handwriting? Who still uses that?

tchrist

The Royal Calligrapher.

My point is that nobody ever flinched from writing Renée using pen and paper. They just had no way they knew how to do with it with a typewriter.

This is why the Alþingi never sent telegrams.

jlliagre

@tchrist Yes, or with ASCII.

Robusto

@jlliagre When I was small and I read facade I thought it was pronounced "faykaid"

tchrist

> Early computers and e‐mail links were, by comparison, living in
typographic poverty. The alphabet they used was the basic character
set defined by the American Standard Code for Information Interchange,
or ASCII. Each character was limited to seven bits of binary
information, so the maximum number of characters was 2⁷ = 128.
Thirty‐three of those were normally subtracted for control codes,
and one was the code for an empty space. This leaves 94: not even
enough to hold the standard working character set of Spanish, French,

12

A: Is the word “formulæ” valid English?

Are there any other examples of English words that contain letters not found in the standard English alphabet? If for “English words”, one counts terms that appear in the Oxford English Dictionary, then yes, there are a very great many such words. Here are just a few examples of the sorts you ...

> The fact that such a character set was long considered adequate tells us something about the cultural narrowness of American civilization, or American technocracy, in the midst of twentieth century.

@Robusto I deliberately pronounce that spelling aloud as "fuckaid" for all to flinch at. If they want me to say it right, then they can spell it right.

jlliagre

1:30 PM

tchrist

The thing about formulæ is that that is not a lexical ligature, so you should write it formulae today.

Robusto

@tchrist I don't think I even knew the word fuck when I encountered facade in my reading.

tchrist

Or formulas.

French has lexical literatures. So does Old English. And Icelandic.

But typographical ligatures are simply quaints.

To break the unbreakable rule that a word spelled with a C that is not followed by a front vowel must be pronounced as though it were spelled K not S is a crime against the humanities.

jlliagre

Una facciata (it) gave une faciade / une fassade / une façade. The last variant won.

tchrist

And by front vowels, I mean the likes of /i/, /ɪ/, /e/, /ɛ/, and /æ/.

jlliagre

1:39 PM

Royal fakade.

tchrist

Hence Caesar and coelacanth.

@jlliagre Because they wanted you to think of face.

MetaEd

"Nanoscope eyes market after phase 2b retinal disease data drop" reading this headline feels like having a stroke

alphabet

@Robusto Likewise, but adding the cedilla wouldn't have helped since I wouldn't have known what that signified. I think people only include diacritics in loanwords if (a) the word is a relatively recent import and still perceived as not really part of English, (b) the version without the diacritics would be read as a different English word (as with résumé/resume) or (c) they're being pedantic.

tchrist

The eyes of the nanoscope are marketing the drops of the 2b after-phase's diseased retinal data.

jlliagre

@tchrist und Kaisersalat.

Robusto

1:44 PM

@alphabet I don't think I'd seen the cedilla either before that.

tchrist

@jlliagre Aber nicht Cyan?

alphabet

I would use the spelling "cafe" rather than "café," even though logically the former should be pronounced like /keɪf/.

jlliagre

@tchrist Do you mean Cillian?

tchrist

@Robusto For that one I think we can blame the 𐌲𐌿𐍄𐌸𐌹𐌿𐌳𐌰 in vicim. After all, they're who turned vicim into vez.

@jlliagre Latin eschewed kappa.

@jlliagre The problem is that there is no word in English where ca is /sa/.

Robusto

@jlliagre No, he means blue.

jlliagre

1:50 PM

@Robusto Out of the cyan?

tchrist

> Ç foi usado inicialmente para simbolizar a africada alveolar surda /t͡s/ no espanhol medieval e se origina da forma da letra "z" na escrita visigótica. Esse fonema teve origem no latim vulgar a partir da palatalização das consoantes plosivas /t/ e /k/ em determinadas condições. Posteriormente, /t͡s/ converteu-se em /s/ em várias línguas românicas e dialetos. Evolução do Z (Ꝣ) visigótico ao moderno Ç.

Robusto

@jlliagre That's Tom.

tchrist

> At first the symbol ç was used for the unvoiced alveolar affricate /t͡s/ in Medieval Spanish and had its origins in the letter z in Visigothic writing. That phoneme had its origin in Vulgar Latin following the palatalization of the consonant stops /t/ and /k/ in particular conditions. Afterwards, /t͡s/ became /s/ in various Romance languages and dialects.

Evolution of Visigothic Z (Ꝣ) to modern Ç

Evolution of Visigothic Z (Ꝣ) to modern Ç

37

A: Porque é que temos o "c com cedilha"? (Why do we have "c with cedilla"?)

Português Existem duas formas distintas de escrever o fonema /s/ hoje porque a nossa ortografia moderna não reflete a pronúncia atual, mas sim a pronúncia do português arcaico. A letra ç tem origem no castelhano antigo. Naquela época ainda se escreviam as palavras da mesma forma que elas continua...

U+A762 ‹Ꝣ› \N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER VISIGOTHIC Z}

It takes Unicode a long time to catch up with manuscript.

jlliagre

@tchrist So does Irish.

tchrist

@jlliagre Because their monks knew classical Latin. Ditto Welsh IIRC.

This is why we have Galadriel marrying kappa-fronted Celeborn .

Cyrion or Kirian.

CRRT always thought JRRT should have not tried to imitate Latin's spelling of C for /k/.

He was sure people wouldn't get it as Latin fell from the curriculum.

He was right.

Robusto

1:55 PM

#WhenTaken #28

I scored 735/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 7590 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 101 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 90.9 metres - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 191 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 989 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 149 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 8788 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 96 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 2 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 198 / 200

https://whentaken.com

#4 was an absolute cheat. No info at all.

tchrist

Cymraeg

Robusto

Don't Welsh on your bets.

tchrist

[kəmˈraːiɡ]

So, cum rag.

jlliagre

Garçon, un soupçon de curaçao !

tchrist

A garçon is the garza's husband.

The heron's lad.

We should change speaking subrosa to speaking souscon.

jlliagre

2:01 PM

#WhenTaken #28

I scored 755/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 236 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 182 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 4 km - 🗓️ 25 yrs - ⚡ 135 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 11 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 953 km - 🗓️ 12 yrs - ⚡ 131 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 5269 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 110 / 200

https://whentaken.com

tchrist

The cura's cães will eat you alive.

Robusto

@jlliagre How did you get that close on #4? That could have been anywhere.

jlliagre

@Robusto I saw a couple a slight clues.

One face is different and the shape of the windows.

Robusto

There are Chinatowns all over the world.

Yes, the one different face made me think USA.

tchrist

Not writing foreign words justly diæ̈reticked is a trick by the white supremacists dog-whistling their radical antiïnclusivity theme, a form of ultrasonic virtue signalling that only neo-nazis can hear.

The European market potential for mandarins.

> The United Kingdom has the largest appetite for mandarins. The country is good for an almost 20% share of the total European imports. Germany follows in second place, then France, the Netherlands and Poland. This group of countries represents more than 70% of the total European imports.

I wonder why the UK is #1 for mandarin appetite.

Oh, because of shitty weather.

> Mandarins are a popular fruit in the United Kingdom, with a 2.5–3.0 kg consumption per capita per year. They are commonly consumed during the winter months and the festive season. They are often enjoyed as a snack or used in various culinary preparations, such as salads, desserts and juices. The British also appreciate canned mandarins. Canned mandarins are imported into the United Kingdom, mostly from Spain, since the United Kingdom does not can mandarins.

Robusto

2:20 PM

Wordle 1,011 4/6

🟨⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟨⬛🟨⬛⬛
⬛⬛🟨⬛🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

In my youth, vanilla was the polar opposite of chocolate.

tchrist

I don't understand the economics that would allow for transoceanic mandarins to compete with domestic ones. Shouldn't those from Spain and Morocco be far cheaper to transport than those from South Africa or Peru?

> With a connection to the Mediterranean area, Spain, Israel and Morocco are logical mandarin suppliers to France. Together, the three countries hold more than 85% of French mandarin imports. France is the third largest European importing country of mandarins. In 2022, France imported 151,000 tonnes of mandarins. This was only a minor increase compared to 2018 (+0.6% growth per year, equal to 4,000 tonnes in total) and lower than the European average.

Robusto

@tchrist Anyone can hop on a steamer. Even a Mandarin.

tchrist

Well, at least the French aren't stupid.

jlliagre

Wordle 1,011 6/6

⬛🟨⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟨⬛🟨⬛
⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

tchrist

> Spain is the top supplier of mandarins to the British market (38%), followed by South Africa (29%), Morocco (19%) and Peru (9.5%). Among the countries with a more than 1% share, Spain gained the most. Its share grew from 27% in 2018 to 38% in 2022. Turkey and Peru lost the most, as their shares declined from 16% to 9.5% and from 2.0% to 1.0% respectively.

But that, that I cannot explain.

Commonwealth favors?

Not being Californian, I had never tasted fresh satsumas before I moved to Spain.

> France is among the smaller mandarin-producing countries in Europe. However, its production only includes clementines. The production is primarily concentrated in the south-eastern region, particularly in Corsica, Var, and Alpes-Maritimes.

> Production of U.S. tangerines, mandarins and tangelos (collectively referred to as tangerines) for the fresh market bucked the production downturn of oranges, grapefruit and lemons. Tangerine production reached its second highest level in 50 years at 788,000 tons this season due to a larger crop in California.

> Exports of tangerines were up this year, with a 9% (10 million pounds) increase from 2019-20. Canada, Japan and Mexico remained the three largest export markets for U.S.-grown tangerines. Near-record high domestic production this season led to the highest per-capita availability of tangerines on record of 6.95 pounds.

Canada ok, but Japan?

jlliagre

2:30 PM

@tchrist Don't generalize! ;-)

Robusto

@jlliagre Yes. There are many in France who support Le Pen.

jlliagre

and they clearly lead the polls.

Robusto

Quel dommage

Daily Octordle #792
4️⃣5️⃣
🕐6️⃣
9️⃣🕚
🔟🕛
Score: 70

That turned out poorly.

Lambie

2:48 PM

Yeah, well, that aggregation of surveys doesn't make parties so clear. They should have included a color guide.

Robusto

Daily Sequence Octordle #792
5️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
Score: 68

jlliagre

5 MAJORLY WRONG MYTHS ABOUT FRENCH PEOPLE + the actual TRUTH!

►

Daily Octordle #792
5️⃣4️⃣
🕚🕐
8️⃣6️⃣
9️⃣🔟
Score: 66

Daily Sequence Octordle #792
4️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣9️⃣
🕚🕛
⓮⓯
Score: 78

Lambie

@CowperKettle Your salary comes in batches? Interesting...:)

Robusto

@jlliagre I thought every pissoir had a bidet.

jlliagre

@Robusto None of them have any. By the way the word pissoir is rude in French, we call them pissotières (informal) or just urinoirs.

Robusto

2:58 PM

@jlliagre I know. Just being saucy. ;-)

jlliagre

Occasionally, they are called fontaines ;-)

Lambie

Yeah, and then there was this updated version that caused a furor [British English furore]:

jlliagre

Lambie

Believe it: uritrottoir: npr.org/2018/08/14/638512558/…

i.guim.co.uk/img/media/55173c3bf154936c67f9b7d2ccfdc3c14f6da8c4/… The Guardian

Can't grab the image. No skills have I, said she.

MetaEd

3:16 PM

"The universe does not have laws -- it has habits, and habits can be broken."

Wordle 1,011 4/6

⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
⬛🟨⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Lambie

3:44 PM

And this: usatoday.com/gcdn/presto/2018/08/14/USAT/…

MetaEd

@Lambie - Guardian is being tricky.

Lambie

Ah great. Unbelievable right? I can't believe how explicit it is. Also, sexist coz what did they do for women?

MetaEd

To be fair, drunk women pissing in the street is not the problem.

2

Lambie

What makes you think only drunk men use them?

My next post disappeared: then there was [is?] the moto-crotte which was introduced 30 years ago AND there was never at the time a public campaign to tell people to pick up their own dog shit. Anyway, now there's the Poop Buster: lemonde.fr/blog/binaire/2018/04/01/…

MetaEd

@Lambie (a) I didn't say only drunk men use them, and (b) the article says drunk men pissing on the street are the problem

(or is, if you prefer)

Robusto

3:54 PM

@MetaEd There was a Darwin Award given to a guy on a golf course who, drunk, tried to use a ball washer to wash his other balls. Took him right out of the genetic propagation chain.

Ball washer

A ball washer or ball shagger is a piece of equipment for cleaning dirty golf balls. Because golf balls have a dimpled surface to improve their aerodynamic properties, increasing both distance and control, and are used primarily on grassy surfaces, they tend to collect dirt and grass easily, which can adversely affect their aerodynamic characteristics. Ball washers are typically found on golf courses; on some courses, there is one at every hole. To maintain these aerodynamic properties balls are usually inspected for dirt before play, and washed if required. Ball washers can be operated either...

Lambie

It's funny to me that at the outset when the moto-crotte were introduced there was no public campaign (dunno if there has been one since) telling people to cooperate by picking up their dog's poop. Then, they just kept on going with other devices. It is interesting though to see that trash bin labelled POOP in English. What's wrong with CROTTES in French? Talk about English invading French...And if you try to say poop with a French accent....[snorts].

MetaEd

@Robusto probably drunk too

Robusto

@MetaEd I said drunk.

MetaEd

oicthat

Robusto

Very thorough cleaning, it seems.

MetaEd

3:56 PM

how would you pronounce it. po-op?

Lambie

I think that in any place in the states, there'd be an uprising if the authorities spent public monies on automatic dog shit scoopers.

@MetaEd With great difficulty, and I'm fluent in French, so...

Mitch

@Robusto squirms

MetaEd

@Lambie depends. If there were already an uprising about overwhelming amounts of dog shit, they might cheer our new robot overlords

Robusto

@Mitch Right?

Mitch

@Robusto I think I saw that on an episode of Jackass

If not, then I propose that be on the first episode of the reboot

Robusto

4:00 PM

@Mitch Darwin Awards aren't given to professionals.

Mitch

Or maybe the sequel should just be called 'Florida Man's

Which probably already exists

But that's probably ok because that would be totally on target to have multiple independent 'Florida Man's shoes.

@Robusto in a literal sense the players in the Jackass series were probably paid, but they weren't what I'd call very professional about their performances

Female urination device

A female urination device (FUD), personal urination device (PUD), female urination aid, or stand-to-pee device (STP) is a device that can be used to more precisely aim the stream of urine while urinating standing upright. Variations range from basic disposable funnels to more elaborate reusable designs. Personal urination devices have increased in popularity since the 1990s. They are used for outdoor occupations & recreation, gender affirmation/safety, and medical reasons. In addition, fixed installation and relocatable urinals are available for use by females. Some designs require the user to...

Lambie

@MetaEd I think French and American attitudes to dog shit are very dissimilar. That said, the French attitude is really odd because there is a school of thought in France that claims French is invaded by English, and here we have French people trying to distance themselves from their own language by using English. I gotta say, it's too much for a body to bear. [haha] They could have labelled that bin: Crotte Canine. [yuck yuck]

Mitch

Technology rocks!

MetaEd

My approach to dogshit is to mow the yard frequently enough that I can see it before I step on it.

Mitch

@Lambie oh. I see we've moved on from pee to peupe

@MetaEd my approach is to back away

MetaEd

4:07 PM

@Mitch which you can´t know to do unless I mow the yard

Robusto

@Mitch If you're getting paid, you are by definition professional.

Mitch

@MetaEd thank you for mowing the lawn, which, by the way, is so lush and green that it may be over fertilized.

So I will do you the favor of not bothering to step on it.

@Robusto in name only

Unprofessional professionals.

The whole aura of the show, nay, the ambiance or even Weltanschauung, is to be juvenile.

That they get paid to do it seems almost irrelevant.

Lambie

@Mitch Funny, that. Yep, one can imagine an Inspector Clouzeau effect as you point out. The funny thing about Sellers' accent in all the movies is that it was not the actual way a French person who hasn't mastered English sounds in English. And no, I shan't do a phonetic/phone analysis of that accent. You just have to believe me. :)

Laurel

Now can this really be unclear after like 5 people have answered it (including @alphabet and @Araucaria-Him)?

3

Q: Why is "that" in the relative clause not a complementizer?

English is a very beautiful and systematic language. English is not my mother tongue. I have been interested in deep grammar for some time and I am confused. Example: The girl that I love. They say that here (in all of them) that is a relative pronoun, but my logic doesn't get it. Here's what I ...

Lambie

4:28 PM

Why are you dragging that up yet again? My issue with questions like that is the OP, who clearly has issues with English that "pre-date" whatever his question is, keeps going on and on and on in barely intelligible English. How is: ""The girl that I love" anything but a title or an unwritten sentence? Can you ask advanced questions when you can 't even grasp or write an intermediate level sentence? Penitenziagite! :)

CowperKettle

4:56 PM

A large box for 'spam' in the entry hall of an apartment block, along with mailboxes

CowperKettle

5:26 PM

@Lambie Yes, once a week the salary for the previous week

MetaEd

5:39 PM

@Lambie The English and the French speak the same language, just differently

Lambie

@MetaEd Yeah, that sounds like good mythmaking.

tchrist

@Laurel A fine question indeed.

Yours, at least.

alphabet

@Laurel No. Voting to reopen.

Robusto

6:22 PM

0

A: A word for the item which is being substituted

I think the word you are looking for is substituendum: Something to be substituted or replaced. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/substituendum

Said nobody ever.

This is part of what's wrong with single-word-request.

jlliagre

6:44 PM

Robusto

7:06 PM

@jlliagre Hahaha!

So whoever said ChatGPT was a "somebody"?

Lambie

Not the item that substitute? Hmm.

Robusto

I rest my case.

Robusto

7:26 PM

Rick Reacts: When They Go Low...

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Mitch

7:48 PM

@Robusto too many nobodies

Robusto

@Mitch "There isn't a parallel of latitude but would have been the equator if he'd had his rights."

Actually, Twain put it slightly differently: "There isn't a Parallel of Latitude but thinks it would have been the Equator if it had had its rights."

From Following the Equator (1897).

He also said, "I make it a point never to smoke more than one cigar at a time."

Robusto

8:08 PM

Key Bridge Collapse Misinformation

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Lambie

It's a bit over the top.

Robusto

9:14 PM

One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) | RetroFocus

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Robusto

9:34 PM

> The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

2

tchrist

10:10 PM

@Robusto And dies for its troubles.

user 85795

trace amounts of DDE, a breakdown product of the notorious pesticide DDT that was banned in the US in the 1970s due to its harmful impact upon wildlife but which still persists in the environment today.

Dannyu NDos

@jlliagre I'd propose "substitee".

Making words up is fun anyway

Though, the Latin word brings up a question... Is Latin to English like Classical Chinese is to Korean?

jlliagre

11:08 PM

@DannyuNDos Sure. Even better: le substitué.

Dannyu NDos

That's French.

jlliagre

6 hours ago, by MetaEd

@Lambie The English and the French speak the same language, just differently

Dannyu NDos

O_o

I'd put it differently tho: English is Icelandic but French.

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Every French word is valid in English, and reciprocally.

Meaning might change but that doesn't matter.

Dannyu NDos

God save the roi.

jlliagre

11:12 PM

return on investment

Robusto

@jlliagre How about kayak?

jlliagre

@Robusto It works in both sides.

Robusto

Potlatch?

jlliagre

Arguably more French than English :-)

Dannyu NDos

Though, words are not always interchangable between the CJKs.

jlliagre

11:26 PM

Whatever the spelling.

Dannyu NDos

"Do not enter" in Chinese: 遊客止步 lit. "Passengers shall stop walking"
"Do not enter" in Japanese: 立入禁止 lit. "No entry nor standing inside"
"Do not enter" in Korean: 출입금지 lit. "No entry nor exit"

Robusto

11:55 PM

@DannyuNDos OK, how about hillbilly?

Dannyu NDos

?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…