English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

1:24 AM

@WillHunting - Question: sometimes you give perfectly good and helpful answers, only to delete them. Is there a reason you do this? I mean, you can do anything you please, but I like your answers.

user174558

4:23 AM

@anongoodnurse Hi. I delete my zero vote answers after a while. Firstly, it's like nobody found them helpful. Secondly, I'm a little obsessed about not leaving around zero vote answers. And R is back, LOL. Actually now I dislike R, E A, and D B.

user174558

@anongoodnurse Not related to your question. I dislike people commenting on my answers when they think I should not post it because the question is off topic. I dislike people commenting on my answers when they think I should give a direct quotation of what I linked to, even when the link only provides supporting evidence and the answer is self-contained and stands on its own, paraphrasing parts of the link in my own words. I am completely pissed with these 3 users.

user174558

@anongoodnurse Again not related to your question, but just to vent, these 3 users have often engaged me in logical arguments, not realising their own flawed logic. Perhaps they think they are very smart.

PhMgBr

5:22 AM

@WillHunting That approach isn't recommended.

First, I have some 10+ answers on metas and mains which remained 0 for quite some time.

An edit bumps the post, or a random visitors feels generous, and you get surprise upvotes.

And it feels fuuu~uun.

Second, there was some meta I read some other day that said if this happened a lot, it might even come off as vandalism and get you in trouble.

user174558

5:40 AM

@PhMgBr I am aware of that. I have been here for 5 years, Padawan.

PhMgBr

Pssht whatever.

There was a six-year-long SO user who wanted to know how to like a post.

Lawrence

7:48 AM

The second google entry to a search on "to have one's cake dough" links to Urban Dictionary. Oddly, it states that there aren't any definitions there yet, but being ranked so highly on this search suggests that the page already exists (which is ironically appropriate for the expression). Related to the following question:

3

Q: Is there any idiom or expression that would mean "all my efforts wasted"?

I'm looking for an idiom or expression that would mean "all one's efforts wasted". I have found "to have one's cake dough". Can I use it for "all my efforts wasted" too? ( A non-native friend told me it is used for saying " all 'my plans' failed", not 'my efforts'.) I want to use it in: Jo...

J doh

8:53 AM

Hello. I'ved noticed that modal verbs are often paired eg. will and would, can and could, shall and should.

Why are shall and should paired?

Anonymous

@Jdoh They're present and past tense forms, although the relationship is a little different from that of other verbs' present and past tense forms.

Anonymous

The relationship is more tenuous for some pairs than others.

Anonymous

And for some pairs, like may and might, it depends on the speaker whether they're synchronically related or not.

Anonymous

Some linguists analyze all eight (the six you mentioned, plus the two I mentioned) as unrelated in Modern English, treating the present–past relationship as a matter of etymology. But all eight do still appear in alternation, so some linguists analyze them as being related, even though the relationship is clearly more complicated than that of a normal verb.

Anonymous

In any case, all four pairs need special description.

J doh

9:01 AM

Thanks @snailplane - what do you mean by "all eight do still appear in alternation"?

Anonymous

Are you familiar with something called "backshift"?

J doh

you mean as in reported speech?

Anonymous

Sure. Although the concept can be applied to other contexts as well.

Anonymous

If we can come up with a context where shall is backshifted to should, it's evidence for a surviving relationship between the two forms.

Anonymous

But the relationship is really pretty weak in that particular case.

Anonymous

9:04 AM

The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language is one that analyzes them as past–present pairs, even in Modern English, but they admit as much:

Anonymous

> It is clear from the data [...] that the relationship between should and shall and between might and may is significantly less systematic than that between could and can or would and will. While could and would are unquestionably the preterite counterparts of present tense can and will respectively, the status of should and might as preterite forms is far less clear-cut.

Anonymous

(p.202)

Anonymous

Note: preterite is another term for the past tense form of a verb.

Anonymous

They present the following examples:

Anonymous

> I shall easily finish before she returns.

Anonymous

9:06 AM

> I knew [I should easily finish before she returned].

Anonymous

But most of the time, shall and should are really treated like unrelated verb forms, I think.

Anonymous

They have distinct patterns of usage, distinct meaning, and most of the time aren't related by a present–past semantic relationship, or by the other relationships that pair of verb forms can usually express.

Anonymous

So I think the argument that they should be paired is really quite weak in most cases.

user174558

Snail plane is so fast she should be called snail rocket.

J doh

Great. That was very helpful

haha Will

user174558

9:09 AM

Are you Jane or John?

PhMgBr

Or Jill?

J doh

Mike :)

PhMgBr

Or Jack?

user174558

I am a Jerk.

PhMgBr

Or Mike?

Haha I win.

user174558

9:11 AM

The users who downvote so much on this site only do so because they can't do so elsewhere, where they are nobody.

user174558

Who cares what they say outside ELU? I hate these bullies.

J doh

Thanks again @snailplane

user174558

Although this site can be helpful for one's studies of English, I will no longer recommend it to another.

PhMgBr

@WillHunting Thou art still not meh.

user174558

@PhMgBr I am not talking about my being downvoted, but the site in general, though.

user174558

9:16 AM

Too many pseudo-intellectuals here thinking too highly of themselves.

PhMgBr

Usually if you can't stand the temper of a city's people, you move out.

user174558

Correcting others when they are wrong themselves.

user174558

Leaving stupid comments like 'this is not even correct' when this is correct.

user174558

What's with the 'even' there? Too arrogant!

user174558

How do I know it is correct? Because I checked a few dictionaries, not just one?

user174558

9:19 AM

These arrogant folks make my toes laugh.

Anonymous

That's an interesting expression. The toes laughing part.

user174558

Thanks. I learnt it from my mum.

user174558

I am going to rewatch the 4 Bourne movies so that I can watch the 5th one in July remembering the story.

PhMgBr

@WillHunting I would've just taken a break from the site if I were you.

CowperKettle

12:12 PM

We have an expression in Russian, "Don't make my slippers laugh"

"Не смешите мои тапочки"

question_asker

nice

MετάEd

1:35 PM

Mornin.

Damkerng T.

1:58 PM

@CowperKettle (cc. @snail plane) Mine is "I laugh so hard my teeth fall out" (หัวเราะจนฟันร่วง 555).

question_asker

nice!

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

MετάEd

2:14 PM

Around here we laugh our asses off.

crl

I think when someone tells you "Could you elaborate?" it often means he takes you for an idiot

or he doesn't care to try to understand and ask relevant question on what you said

Damkerng T.

@MετάEd So many ways to laugh!

@crl Probably

MετάEd

2:29 PM

@crl Could you go into that a little more? :}

question_asker

maybe explain what you mean by that

Mitch

2:44 PM

@MετάEd suppresses laughter for medical reasons

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…