English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

7:00 PM

My family story, which I think I've shared with Cerberus in the past . . .

My grandfather was Sicilian, catholic. He grew up in a primarily Jewish area of a mixed neighborhood. He spoke fluent Yiddish. And married an Ashkenazi Jewish woman.

When I learned to speak Italian, I made an effort to find our "lost" relative in Sicily (over 100 years of immigration/separation).

Cerberus

@oerkelens Hah, yes, Calvinists like to go to extremes...

David M

And, one of the first questions I asked was: "What the hell does our name mean?"

And, they shrugged their shoulders and told me the story I've told you.

Cerberus

Ah, yes, I remember the Italian roots.

About the mosque?

David M

Yes

Cerberus

OK.

But then...if your grandfather was not Jewish...

Was your father Jewish?

I mean, the name goes through the male line.

David M

7:04 PM

My cousin there is a fairly well-read guy who is a construction foreman/bulldozer operator. But, he asked a local University professor friend of his.

Name goes through the male line. Religion through the female.

Yes, my father was raised Jewish.

Cerberus

And of Jewish descent?

David M

We're not particularly religious, though.

Cerberus

I don't get it.

David M

@Cerberus Which part?

Cerberus

Your grandfather was not Jewish, and yet he had a Jewish name?

oerkelens

7:05 PM

The Jewish connection in the name, when the name comes from the male line, and the Jewish connection from th efemale line, I guess

Cerberus

Or where did your father get his Jewish name?

David M

@Cerberus Very, very obscurely Jewish name.

Very few would identify it as such.

oerkelens

I love that genealogical digging :)

Cerberus

OK, that explains it, then.

David M

It's estimated that nearly everyone in Sicilian or Calabria has some Jewish blood.

Cerberus

7:06 PM

When you started about your grandmother's being Jewish, I thought that was related to the name.

David M

@Cerberus Ah, no.

Cerberus

When and why did so many Jews go to Sicily?

David M

Her name was Grand.

Changed from Granowsky

Cerberus

@oerkelens Yeah it's nice! Has everything been figured out for your family?

David M

@Cerberus 1492 and the Spanish Inquisition.

Cerberus

7:07 PM

Ah, Slavic.

They fled to Sicily from Spain?

Aragonese connections?

David M

@Cerberus I wish, I've gotten back about ... 3 generations. No more.

Except for the Sicilian side.

Cerberus

Hmm.

David M

@Cerberus Sicily was still a part of the Moorish kingdom.

For another few years.

Cerberus

Can you trace the Sicilian side back to Spain?

David M

@Cerberus No.

Unfortunately.

Cerberus

7:08 PM

@DavidM Ohh that's right.

David M

We have Church records going back to about . . . the beginning of the 19th century.

Cerberus

Hmm.

David M

It seems the first Misita came to town around then. Married a local girl and stayed.

oerkelens

@Cerberus yups: some far uncle sorted the whole thing out till about 1500 :)

David M

Collesano, Sicily.

Cerberus

7:10 PM

My oldest recorded ancestor is from the 1300s or so. That I know of.

@oerkelens Very good.

David M

I didn't bother traveling to the other towns to figure it out.

Cerberus

Right.

I'm glad someone else did all the work, hehe.

David M

OK. I must go pick up my children from school.

Cerberus

G'bye!

David M

I will leave you with the problem with Jewish genealogy ... Poor record keeping in the Eastern Empires, and the Nazis.

Talk to everyone later. @oerkelens Nice to meet you in person. I've enjoyed your posts.

Cerberus

7:12 PM

Heh.

Bye!

@DavidM A question: are transsexual operations/procedures covered by most healthcare insurance packages in America?

MrHen

7:38 PM

@Cerberus I'm under the impression that it typically isn't but that it is becoming more common to see insurance packages include them. But I am unable to find a source on it so I don't know where I heard this.

aedia λ

Afternoon!

MrHen

Wait, here it is:

> A growing number of public and commercial health insurance plans in the United States now contain defined benefits covering sex reassignment-related procedures, usually including genital reconstruction surgery (MTF and FTM), chest reconstruction (FTM), breast augmentation (MTF), and hysterectomy (FTM).

Sex reassignment surgery

Sex reassignment surgery (initialized as SRS; also known as gender reassignment surgery (GRS), genital reconstruction surgery, sex affirmation surgery or sex realignment surgery) is a term for the surgical procedures by which a person's physical appearance and function of their existing sexual characteristics are altered to resemble that of the other sex. It is part of a treatment for gender identity disorder/gender dysphoria in transsexual and transgender people. It may also be performed on intersex people, often in infancy and without their consent. A 2013 statement by the United Na...

They are essentially taking the position that it is a necessary medical procedure for treating gender identity disorder.

Not my area of expertise, though, so I only know whatever I read on Wikipedia :P

(And hear from people who are involved in the community.)

@aediaλ Hello :)

aedia λ

Despite what Wikipedia says, I think it would still be hard to find a plan that covers anything but diagnosis and treatment of underlying causes (for example, treatment of CAH would be covered but surgery or hormones for most trans* people would not).

MrHen

@aediaλ That is my impression as well.

Cerberus

@MrHen Ah OK, thanks.

@aediaλ Oh, hmm.

All the sex-change stuff is covered by all insurance policies here, I just found out.

MrHen

7:50 PM

Short answer: It depends on the carrier and circumstances.

@Cerberus I think the US has more controversial non-covered procedures :P (Not that I have an example ready; US insurance is kind of minimalistic by default.)

oerkelens

You have any plans, @Cerberus?

aedia λ

Last time my better half and I chose between our employer-sponsored plans from a few large insurance companies none were particularly great. I would have switched plans if any of them actually seemed to have LGBT-friendly coverage.

Cerberus

@MrHen Right, I see.

MrHen

@aediaλ I have basically one choice for employer sponsored plans.

But our plan is pretty good.

I wonder if it covers this...

Cerberus

@oerkelens No! I don't get transsexuality at all, or at least not the part where you want to change your body.

MrHen

7:53 PM

@Cerberus It is not an easy thing to relate to unless you actually experience it :P

oerkelens

Ah :)

Well, I guess a lot of guys go through the phase where they figure they are a nymphomaniac lesbian woman trapped in the body of a man

But that is not really the same thing :P

Cerberus

@MrHen Yes, I'm sure. Call me naïve, but I always wonder, why is it such a terrible experience to feel like a woman in a man's body, if you can hang out and/or date with whomever you prefer, if you can pick a job/hobbies you prefer...

@oerkelens Ohh OK, noted.

terdon

If anyone can spare a delete war, let's avoid flame wars:

-2

A: Is "evidence" countable?

The use of the word "evidences" as a plural noun has come into fashion among certain creationist apologists and their followers. It is the mark of an uneducated, unintelligent, gullible and credulous creatard parroting the tripe of charlatans such as Bill Craig, Duane Gish, Bananaman Ray Comfort ...

Cerberus

Hi!

terdon

and hello all :)

MrHen

7:55 PM

@Cerberus I cannot help answer. The best analogy my mind can come up with is comparing it to how weird phantom limbs would be.

oerkelens

It is such a terrible experience because you ar etreated by the whole world as something you feel you are not. No personal experience, but I can imagine it must suck big time

MrHen

@oerkelens Unfortunately, that doesn't really translate to how I experience things. I don't "feel" things that way. :P

@terdon A delete war?

oerkelens

@terdon: I flagged it, more I cannot do. I agree with the content, but it is completely out of place

terdon

@MrHen Not a war, just a rant instead of an answer. A rant that in large part, I tend to personally agree with, but a rant nevertheless.

oerkelens

@MrHen Well, i gave it a try :)

MrHen

7:57 PM

@terdon I agree. I flagged it as Not An Answer. :)

Cerberus

@MrHen But I really don't think it is like that.

terdon

I flagged directly as offensive. Thing is, there already was a flame war because one of our users found the original wording of my question offensive and I really didn't want to start that all over again.

Cerberus

@oerkelens But...why is that such a problem? What does it even mean on a fundamental level, being treated like a man?

MrHen

@oerkelens It was a noble attempt. :) I don't really expect to ever "get" it but I also know that I don't need to "get" it. I can still help as long as people tell me how to help. :)

oerkelens

I actually appreciated the coining of_ gullible and credulous creatard _

But I flagged it as offensive nonetheless

MrHen

7:59 PM

@Cerberus I have no idea if it is or isn't. Like I said, that is the closest analogy I can think of. :P

Cerberus

@oerkelens Yeah that was good.

MrHen

@terdon Haha, well, yeah. That happens from time to time. :)

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