English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

12:14 AM

@user4550 That is true: in many cases, we are sloppy with the scope of our adverbs, and our readers forgive us.

It is the same in many other languages.

user4550

OK.

Thanks for your insight.

terdon

108

A: Updated procedure for reporting SCRAPERs

tl;dr: Send all reports of SCRAPERs to us via the form on the contact us page, linked at the bottom of every page. Please include: the URL of the copied post the URL of the original post on SE for high-rankers, the search string you used (and the name of the search engine, if not Google) any ot...

Mitch

12:36 AM

@Cerberus Porthos

@MattЭллен I dug one.

Cerberus

@Mitch Ah, the musqueteer?

Mitch

@Cerberus Right. Atmos, Porthos, and Paraffin.

Cerberus

Umm....

Need I say more?

Or anything at all?

terdon

@Mitch Surely it was Pathos, Porthos and Puffin!

Cerberus

No, no, it was pathos, ethos, and logos, right?

So said your ancestor.

Modes of persuasion

The modes of persuasion, frequently referred to as rhetorical strategies or rhetorical appeals, are devices in rhetoric that classify the speaker's appeal to the audience. They are: ethos, pathos, and logos. Aristotle's On Rhetoric describes the modes of persuasion thus: Persuasion is clearly a sort of demonstration, since we are most fully persuaded when we consider a thing to have been demonstrated. Of the modes of persuasion furnished by the spoken word there are three kinds. [...] Persuasion is achieved by the speaker's personal character when the speech is so spoken as to make us think him...

terdon

12:51 AM

@Cerberus fine, drag us all up to your level.

user4550

Bradlee took the helm in the Post's newsroom in 1965 and led it for 26 years, through high-profile, government-defying efforts to print the Pentagon Papers and cover the Watergate scandal.

Why a comma before "through"?

Cerberus

@terdon Greece is down under, the Achilles heel of Europe.

Of course that is a good thing, because Achilles was a hero.

@user4550 Because what follows is a kind of afterthought. It isn't strictly necessary, but it is an improvement over no comma.

Anonymous

@TimTimmy I don't know if it's relevant to you or not (Hello! I don't know you at all, but I'm replying to your chat message!), but practicing language skills can be helpful for native speakers, too

tchrist

@terdon Done.

Anonymous

Like, if you want to write better, writing every day helps.

user4550

12:54 AM

I'd say it is not; the "through" part is just as, if not more, important to the sentence.

What do you think, snailboat, as a native speaker?

Anonymous

Practice is important for folks like me whose language skills aren't so great to begin with :-) I can't speak for anyone else, of course.

Cerberus

@user4550 An "afterthought" can be important, but it just isn't closely connected to the initial sentence, which is why it is marked off by a comma.

user4550

I see. Thanks.

Anonymous

@user4550 Removing the comma makes the sentence worse.

Robusto

1:16 AM

@Cerberus Greece has become the Thersites of Europe. The Shakesperean thersites, that is.

Cerberus

@Robusto Aww.

What did Shakespeare make him do?

I caught up on the contents of the Epic and Theban Cycles again, thank you.

tchrist

1:37 AM

> Along with many of the major figures of the Trojan War, Thersites was a character in Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida (1602) in which he is described as "a deformed and scurrilous Grecian" and portrayed as a comic servant, in the tradition of the Shakespearian fool, but unusually given to abusive remarks to all he encounters.

> He begins as Ajax's slave, telling Ajax, "I would thou didst itch from head to foot and I had the scratching of thee; I would make thee the loathsomest scab in Greece." Thersites soon leaves Ajax and puts himself into the service of Achilles (portrayed by Shakespeare as a kind of bohemian figure), who appreciates his bitter, caustic humor.

Cerberus

Funny deviation.

tchrist

Tomorrow we will have a pineapple pricking us about how ungrammatical loathesomest is and what a dolt that WS guy was.

user4550

Thanks

tchrist

1:58 AM

Achilles appreciates the bitter, caustic humor of Thersites.

Mitch

I just heard the word 'exfiltrate'. Very exteresting

user4550

what does he mean by that ?

Mitch

He who?

user4550

Is it like..."I wanna scratch you, then I could make you into the vilest villain in Greece?

Is it like, I wanna make you into the vilest villain?

byb scratching you

?

that greek man

Mitch

Oh... Thersites.

user4550

2:07 AM

yeah

Mitch

Where does villain come in?

user4550

scab

means a villain

what? No not at all!

its from Shak Dic

Oh.

2:08 AM

scab (n.) scurvy fellow, scoundrel, villain

Mitch

I'd be more likely to interpret 'scab' literally, as what you get from scratching too hard and bleeding a little and it dries.

user4550

but why is that? He is his master so why do that ?

scratch is like a favor to make you feel good

scratch my back will ya?

you know

Mitch

Danged if I know. Shakespeare was weird.

user4550

so my syntactic understanding is ok?

Mitch

Thersites is not a very respectful slave I guess.

user4550

2:11 AM

I wish you were itchy all around your body and I could scratch you. If so, I could scratch you and make you the most hated villain in the entirety of Greece!

Mitch

@user4550 syntactically yes,but I disagree with 'villain'

user4550

I see...

Mitch

Scratching some one doesn't seem to me to be an efficient or likely successful method of turning someone into a villain. Maybe scurvy people have lots of scabs? and it is a minor pun or even literal?

user4550

Maybe it is his brand of double etendre

Mitch

That sounds like a good name for aftershave... 'Double Entendre - when she smells your scent, she won't know what to think'

user4550

2:25 AM

I know not what thou talk'st about.

user4550

2:47 AM

@MItch What did you mean by "danged if I know"?

tchrist

Some given names in English actually mean something when used as a common noun. Of these, there are two sorts: those where the person was named because of that common noun (like Daisy or Rose) and those where the person was named despite that common noun (like Dick or Bud).

0

A: What is the meaning of the name Wilber in English?

Very few given names have any separate meaning apart from the name itself. Wilbur has no special meaning in English. It might derive connotations from others who have gone by that name, but it does not actually “mean” anything in any denotational sense. The rare exceptions are people’s name th...

Bill is another.

So some are deliberate and some are accidental.

@Cerberus notwithstanding. :)

Randy

Wednesday is actually not a common noun, but Wednesday Adams was named for being full of woe. :)

Cerberus

@tchrist I think dick is yet a third sort: the common noun is named after the personal name (as a euphemism), isn't it?

@tchrist Why am I not standing with you?

tchrist

@Cerberus Your name is no accident.

user4550

Ice Boy , what does it mean? Dang if I know...

tchrist

3:09 AM

@Cerberus Yes perhaps; consider Robin, which I love as a boy’s name. I think the delightful little bird(s) took their name from the boy originally.

I would be willing to bet that most people naming their identical triplet daughters Gwen and Alba and Blanca didn’t intend to give them all the same name.

I don’t know the deal with Oral Roberts.

And things like Peter and Petra have long lost their rocky overtones. I think.

Or Merlin all thoughts of the small falcon.

terdon

Let alone things like Alexander, or the more ironic perhaps Alexandra, neither of whose bearers would be particularly happy to find they are supposed to keep men at bay.

tchrist

Yes, like Victor.

Some are lost to most people, line Clementine or Marguerite.

terdon

@tchrist Victor is interesting though since it is still used as a noun. Or did it have another meaning?

tchrist

That’s the one I meant.

Many are still used as nouns, although not always with understanding. Kirk.

Tor, although that is an accident.

Then there are the verbs, like Hector. :)

Herb.

I suppose Earl was intentional, like Duke.

Or Regis. :)

user4550

@tchrist not lost to but lost on.

tchrist

3:26 AM

Jess.

terdon

@tchrist Huh. I'd no idea about that one.

tchrist

@terdon Not Scottish, eh?

Jasper.

terdon

@tchrist More than most, but not enough to have a vocabulary. Great grandmother I think.

tchrist

@terdon High Kirk, was she now?

Kirk is of course just church up yonder.

terdon

@tchrist Nah, lowly Forbes clan, sided with them dirty Limeys.

tchrist

3:31 AM

tsk

terdon

@tchrist I know, I looked it up. I wonder if they knew before naming the captain.

user4550

hey

what does it mean?

dang if i know...

What does it mean>/

terdon

@user4550 You've asked three times here. Has it perhaps

tchrist

How come people get named Hazel but seldom Filbert?

user4550

please tell me

terdon

3:33 AM

@user4550 lmgtfy.com/?q=define+danged

tchrist

@terdon Well, they certainly knew Tiberius.

terdon

@tchrist That they did. Though I wouldn't be too surprised if they thought it was some kind of shark.

user4550

that I know...

i dont know it as a set phrase

does it mean

Fuck I don't knwo!!

know?

?

tchrist

Clementine but seldom Avocado.

@terdon I always think of that, yeah.

Linda but seldom Fea.

terdon

Yet Dolores.

tchrist

3:37 AM

Aye.

terdon

That one's gotta hurt.

tchrist

But no Colores, her male twin.

ouch

terdon

Le presento a mis dos hijas, Dolores y Calores.

tchrist

I’ll take the hot one, tyvm.

Faith, Hope, and Charity.

Justice.

Chico.

Mona.

terdon

Dakota

I hate that fad of naming your child after where they happen to have been born, or worse, conceived.

tchrist

3:41 AM

Angels but no Virgins.

terdon

Virginia

tchrist

Daemon.

terdon

@tchrist Was it ever spelt so?

tchrist

@terdon That’s the Latin for the Greek.

So yes.

Also, from the 16th-19th centuries, in English.

demon1 /ˈdiːmən/.

Also 6–9 dæmon.

Etymology: In form, and in sense 1 a, a. L. dæmōn (med.L. dēmōn) spirit, evil spirit, a. Gr. δαίμων divinity, genius, tutelary deity. But in sense 1 b and 2, put for L. dæmonium, Gr. δαιμόνιον, neuter of δαιμόνιος adj. ‘(thing) of divine or dæmonic nature or character’, which is used by the LXX, N. Test., and Christian writers, for ‘evil spirit’. Cf. Fr. démon (in Oresme 14th c. démones); also 13th c. demoygne = Pr. demoni, Ital., Sp. demonio, repr. L. dæmonium, Gr. δαιμόνιον.

terdon

Ah, yes, but there should be no connection between Δήμος and Δαίμων, the name and the demon, respectively.

tchrist

3:44 AM

I wonder how that happened.

terdon

In Greek at least, the former is a contraction of Δημοσθένης, Demosthenes.

So stems from δήμος, as in democracy not δαίμων as in demon.

tchrist

You don’t have to transliterate on my account. :)

I see.

Demonyms for sure.

terdon

@tchrist I was just editing that when you posted. It's automatic actually since we very often write Greek in "Greeklish".

tchrist

César.

Of course, a leading theta for an um kappa is way different, but it’s the same name.

I just said kappa to mean /k/.

terdon

And Thomas apparently. Twin huh?

tchrist

3:51 AM

With an odd h.

Fae. Nymph.

Probably Fay.

Gay was a girl’s name, now sadly lost.

terdon

Guy

Jasper Loy

I am Gay, lol.

tchrist

I was thinking of that one.

Ni te lo creas: no será uno que entiende.

Vicar. Priest. Lord.

So many golden names but never Gold.

Jade.

Ice Boy

All that glitters is not gold.

tchrist

Prince.

Rex.

Ice Boy

3:57 AM

Sue

tchrist

Sosumi.

Tuck.

Tip

Nip.

Chip

Goliath.

3:59 AM

Afk

tchrist

Hasta.

Alf.

terdon

Goldie.

tchrist

River.

terdon

There's Χρύσα and Χρυσή in Greek. Gold is Χρυσός.

tchrist

Yes, I know.

terdon

4:01 AM

Laure in French, but I don't know if that is actually connected to L'or. Probably not.

tchrist

Rather, I knew the word for gold, not that it was used as given name.

terdon

@tchrist I guessed as much.

No, Laure seems to be from Laurentia, so laurels presumably.

tchrist

Chrys- is a common prefix in taxonomy.

Heather.

terdon

Medow

tchrist

Ira. :)

Dear Prudence.

terdon

4:04 AM

> masc. proper name, from Hebrew, literally "watchful," from stem of 'ur "to awake, to rouse oneself."

I wonder if there's any connection to ire.

tchrist

Ira was the Latin.

terdon

Or the verb ir for that matter.

tchrist

Naw.

terdon

@tchrist Of ire?

tchrist

@terdon Yes.

Dies irae, dies illa.

We have our Sylvesters, but where now the Selva Selvaggia?

Damned, no doubt.

> Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita
mi ritrovai per una selva oscura,
ché la diritta via era smarrita.

Ahi quanto a dir qual era è cosa dura
esta selva selvaggia e aspra e forte
che nel pensier rinova la paura!

terdon

4:07 AM

Danged even.

tchrist

Bingo.

See, you can read that.

terdon

Yes. I miss some, but I certainly get the gist. It is Italian right?

tchrist

Yes of course.

smaritta is lost.

The rest should be obvious.

terdon

You never know with these damn romance languages. They creep up on you and it turns out you were reading langue d'oc or whatever.

tchrist

Yeah.

terdon

4:10 AM

nel pensier rinova la paura!

paura must be fear I guess.

tchrist

The langues d’oc have a lot more Italian in them than those oily ones.

Paura is fear, yes.

terdon

nel is a negation, pensier to think. So, which did not think to renew my fear?

tchrist

No.

Que en el pensar

terdon

Ah!

tchrist

Italian and Portuguese both make lots of contractions with prepositions and articles.

I don’t know why Spanish lacks paura, nor even why I know the word. Oh, from French, right.

I got to use Rex, Regis in sequence without even talking about Latin. And I got to add Regina to put the cherry on the cake and keep @Rob happy. My work here is done. Good night.

Ice Boy

5:04 AM

Good night pal :-)

Cerberus

5:25 AM

Good night!

Ice Boy

6:18 AM

Good night

fahdijbeli

7:57 AM

morning

@oerkelens thanks for your response about the intership :)

Matt Эллен

8:23 AM

@Mitch you cruel fiend!

RegDwigнt

@Robusto that cannot be healthy.

RegDwigнt

9:11 AM

0

A: Is "Needless to say" ever worth saying?

Obviously, you are wrong. First off, I don't need to point out that the majority of everything we say or write is superfluous, redundant, or pointless. Very, very little is really "worth saying". However, it is not a rule of English (or any language) that anything that can be removed must be re...

What, I'm the first person there to mention apophasis?

Ice Boy

9:38 AM

Not to mention "redundant." :D

Matt Эллен

10:03 AM

@RegDwigнt I'd think that goes without saying.

Matt Эллен

10:20 AM

-2

Q: How to find the moments of A and B

1) A 4.5m beam of weight is 1200N, supported by two points pivots A and B. A is x metres(m). Determine x, given that B is twice A

Ice Boy

Not to mention, it goes without saying that it is needless to say

Matt Эллен

The comments on this are... mind boggling

Andrew Leach

"OK I see I have to show some work on this myself" (except he doesn't see that)

Matt Эллен

at all. If it didn't feel so earnest, I'd think they were trolling.

Ice Boy

Trolls like to use "honesty" as a disguise.

Matt Эллен

10:27 AM

true

RegDwigнt

10:52 AM

@MattЭллен Shit's hilarious.

I made a screenshot. Would be a pity to lose this gem.

Matt Эллен

:D

RegDwigнt

The "what specifically" part is killing me.

Gold, Jerry, gold.

Matt Эллен

:D

I like the "thanks for our time"

RegDwigнt

Yes. A nice bottom line.

Matt Эллен

maybe it's a typo, but just maybe he's thanking himself :D

RegDwigнt

10:54 AM

I do think he's thanking us, because he did get the answer.

Matt Эллен

so he says. I don't see it, but I guess it was deleted

RegDwigнt

And I'm missing 14 reps to vote down. A scandal!

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Slacker.

RegDwigнt

I would reply but I could also not.

12

A: Begin Sentence with Gerund

Believing your teacher would be a mistake. (Did you see what I just did?)

For the second time today I come across someone saying "did you see what I did there".

Makes my toenails roll up.

Almost as bad as "pun intended".

Matt Эллен

I remember a maddox rant about "pun intended", back at the beginning of the century

RegDwigнt

11:00 AM

If you wrote that sentence, then I assure you - as a trainer for people learning t write English for university purposes - that your sentence is excellent in terms of the English! — Araucaria 11 hours ago

Sic.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt I'm hoping they'll take Roaring Fish's advice and improve their answer

RegDwigнt

@MattЭллен he had me at the douche exhibit.

Wait, that's ambiguous.

Matt Эллен

lol

Robusto

11:38 AM

"This page left intentionally blank."

New app solves equations by snapping pictures on your phone.

4

So someone finally deemed mathematicians' personal data worth mining.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto You misspelled "on your pwn".

Robusto

Heh, so I did. Please fix for me.

If you would be so kind.

RegDwigнt

Also, the page won't load for me. Server not found.

Robusto

Hmm, try https.

RegDwigнt

Nope, doesn't help.

Robusto

11:48 AM

photomath.net

There.

I had to guess because I got this link on my mac.

RegDwigнt

You had a P in there. Photopmath.

Robusto

Well . . . we knew my typing ability was suspect already.

RegDwigнt

Speak for yourself. I merely suspected your ability was known.

What do I know.

Matt Эллен

> And constantly adding new.

no. I refuse to allow that ellipsis.

Robusto

Too late.

You were asleep at the switch, Matt.

Or the wheel. Or something.

Matt Эллен

11:55 AM

the switch should work when I sleep

RegDwigнt

Too many drivers are asleep at something.

There should be a law against it.

What is an ass-witch anyway?

Matt Эллен

~~buttocks~~ donkey, hat, broom

RegDwigнt

Why is the first buttocks out of the four striked through?

Robusto

RegDwigнt

I see a witch but no ass.

Robusto

11:59 AM

Turn the picture over.

RegDwigнt

English is a very complicated language.

Matt Эллен

Wednesday is a complicated Tuesday

RegDwigнt

Piccha-cha-cha.

@MattЭллен and don't get me started on Thursdays.

21 hours ago, by RegDwigнt

Matt Эллен

I won't

RegDwigнt

Proper English is "I, never".

Robusto

12:02 PM

@RegDwigнt What, Thursday is a holiday in Germany now?

Matt Эллен

You, sometimes

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Thor was a god, so...

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Thor was a god. So?

Matt Эллен

so god his day comes twice

Robusto

12:37 PM

Womens college is grammatical? So the plural of women is womens? — Robusto 12 secs ago

There's Kris going off half-cocked again.

Jasper Loy

I just slept eight hours, lol.

user4550

12:52 PM

hi

Brutality remains archaically in our nature.

is this use of archaically correct?

Matt Эллен

yes

Cerberus

@Robusto Odd.

Mitch

1:16 PM

@MattЭллен What? No it's not. It sounds weird.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch it's just an adverb. you remain weirdly in this chat

Mitch

@user4550 "Danged if I know" <- "Damned if I know" <- "I'll be damned if I know" <- "I don't think I'll be damend, this implies I don't know" <- "I don't know"

@MattЭллен I do remain weirdly in this chat. But to the point, and it goes without saying (no pun intended), it is semantically incongruous to 'remain' in an archaic manner.

'Archaic' implies something is no much older and has changed from it's past use, and therefore it hasn't remained that way!

Jasper Loy

1

Q: What is this italic emphasis?

Where did you come from? What is the nuance of this emphasis? I could understand it if the emphasis were on "where."

emphasis

Very interesting question.

I gave an answer which I hope is right.

The other answer is not answering the question.

Mitch

You are right in that answer but the OP will not recognize it.

It's 'The hard Truth Wednesdays'!

Jasper Loy

I think he will. I will cast a spell on him.

Mitch

1:24 PM

It would work better if it were Tuesday, but you have to go with the flow.

@JasperLoy Spells don't work. They just fill a psychological need of wish fulfilliment.

Jasper Loy

@Mitch You misspelled spells.

Mitch

Oops. It's really Blunt Truth Day

@JasperLoy What? There's no grocer's apostrophe there

It's also Lie Your Ass Off Wednesdays

Matt Эллен

is that similar to the joke that will make you laugh your ass off?

Jasper Loy

Now that I have reached 1500, I may retire from this site, but I will keep my account as promised.

Matt Эллен

good, good

Mitch

1:42 PM

@MattЭллен Yes.

(Unexplained Truth Wednesdays)

Jasper Loy

@MattЭллен I think I won't retire yet, I will aim for 2000 and then retire, lol.

Mitch

Note how I emphasized a parenthetical.

Incongruous Wednesdays

user4550

@Mitch You definitely have something fiery, if not in your heart, then in your eyes.

Is this correct?

Mitch

@user4550 No. Because I washed out my eyes with saline solution, and prophylactically took a Tums for mild acid reflux.

user4550

Does this mean, even if it is not in your heart but in your eyes, you have something fiery?

Mitch

1:45 PM

Literal Wednesdays

user4550

no no..i mean grammar

Mitch

If by grammar you mean syntax (word order and part of speech) then yes.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy shoot for the stars

user4550

is my interpretation correct there?

Mitch

Also it is a not uncommon metaphor to say someone has fire in their eyes (meaning anger or ambition or resoluteness (not a word)).

user4550

1:47 PM

my literal interpretation ok?

or not?

Mitch

But a 'fiery heart' sounds a little weird. That's why I made the joke about heartburn (= acid reflux).

user4550

i see.

Mitch

Now since you are talking about interpretation, then given the sentence: "You definitely have something fiery, if not in your heart, then in your eyes." I would interpret it slightly differently than you.

user4550

then what kind of sentence would you make using the same strucutre

Mitch

the phrasing 'if not' is not a logical exclusion, but rather that 'I see fire in your heart, but if you doubt that, I definitely see fire in your eyes.

So are you given the first sentence and you're given the task of rewording the sentence/paraphrasing?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…