English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2014-01-02 (page 1 of 4)

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12:15 AM

Please delete Him before he gets hatted.

12:49 AM

Matt? I would never do such a thing.

4 hours later…

5:02 AM

30

A: Produce the number 2014 without any numbers in your source code

Befunge 98 - 17 11 9 8 bytes '-:*b-.@ Similar to the old version, but I remembered about ' '-:* pushes 45, duplicates it, then squares it, producing 2025 b- subtracts 11 from it, resulting in 2014 .@ prints the result, then ends the program Interestingly, 452-11 is the only pairing of n...

user image

3 hours later…

8:22 AM

int n = 'ߞ';

Feels like cheating for the golf thing

9:07 AM

Guys I has a question

This stainless steel appliance will mix dough for you in a fraction of the time it takes to knead dough by hand.

Would you read this sentence non-stop without breathing or at which point of the sentence would you give an intonation?

1 hour later…

10:16 AM

The sentence can be said in one go alright. I might pause for a fraction of a fraction of a second after appliance or after you to make sure the audience is following.

@EnglishMaster I may read it non-stop.

HAMMERTIME!

Ok

thx for your suggestions.

10:32 AM

@tchrist it only just occurred to me that I do not understand the point of that site. There is no shortage of space these days. Even embedded systems are allowed to grow to gigabytes. And that's compiled code. How large the source code is, nobody cares. Making it smaller to the point of incomprehensibility is a waste, not a virtue.

I mean, even the softest and most subjective question on Programmers, or Parenting, or Philosophy, still has a purpose. It is helping someone. But writing "2014" without using numbers is of use to — whom, exactly?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I was just stuggling for something to write :)

@RegDwigнt people who want to show off

@MattЭллен to whom, exactly?

Only to one another.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt each other

That's what Reddit is for.

Matt Эллен

:D

well, I didn't allow the site into beta

10:35 AM

I mean, why is there no SE for "here's a poem I just wrote"? Or for pictures of kids eating LEGO?

They, too, are achievements in nothingness.

Matt Эллен

well, because we don't want to encourage people to encourage children to eat lego

Precisely. So why do we want to encourage people to encourage children to write 2014 without using numbers?

So that question should be nuked.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy Which question?

@MattЭллен The 2014 question.

10:37 AM

I am wondering about the site as a whole, actually.

The question is perfectly fine for the site.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt I think because it's attractive to (some) programmers

I don't know why it got an SE site other than that

@MattЭллен so are pictures of naked women. And indeed there's a subreddit for that. Hundreds. But not a single SE site!

I still don't know why Sexuality SE was nuked.

@JasperLoy because you couldn't explain it without using numbers.

But I think they really were nuked for lack of participation.

I suspect it turned into a porn site.

10:39 AM

Nah.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt yes. I don't have an answer. only that programming puzzles are programming related. they're more mentally taxing than finding pictures of naked women.

you could propose a site for "poetry golf" under the same auspices

@MattЭллен I think those are hard to find too in certain countries.

@MattЭллен I dunno. If my question is "find me Martha Stewart in position X wearing Y", that's a very specific question that requires skill to answer.

Matt Эллен

but I doubt there would be a large enough user base

This.

At the end of the day, it's all just the numbers.

Matt Эллен

10:41 AM

@RegDwigнt is that the sort of thing on the subreddit?

Ironic, seeing how the question is about lack of them.

Matt Эллен

:D

@MattЭллен I don't know. But from the stuff that I have seen on Reddit, I can extrapolate that there are several dedicated subreddits for every combination of Martha Stewart, X, and Y.

I have never visited Reddit.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy reddit.com

10:42 AM

They don't have to be active, mind you. Most subreddits are dead. But they exist!

Matt Эллен

just follow the link ;)

@RegDwigнt what does one have to do to create a subreddit?

I have no idea.

I don't think there are any requirements, though.

Very weird that there is no sound on my laptop but there is on my desktop though both are installed with Mint 18 Cinnamon.

@MattЭллен there's a "create your own subreddit" link right on the home page.

I just clicked it, looks very straightforward.

Fill out a form, and off you go.

Matt Эллен

a lot easier than area51

10:45 AM

@MattЭллен I am very sad due to some recent events, perhaps I may email you soon...

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy ok. feel free :)

I am very sad that due to some recent events I will not email you soon.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt OK. Feel free. :)

@RegDwigнt That's BS.

@MattЭллен Are you still using Ubuntu?

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy I am

10:48 AM

Morning gang!

@Ste Morning!

Matt Эллен

Hello!

I am one vote away from Atwood hair.

Do the hats disappear today?

Or tomorrow?

4th. Whatever that means.

If that's 24:00 on the 3rd, that's in 37 hours.

I best get cracking on Mr Binx

10:51 AM

Hah.

I had problems with the last two versions of Fedora. Both give me a pixellated screen upon login.

Took me a week of drinking to get Mr Binx.

Even Robocop was easier.

On a second thought, it wasn't.

I think I need three more questions. I will start on the cider.

@RegDwigнt It is not good to drink too much.

Robocop is hugely unfair.

10:52 AM

Robocop was horrible. As is Eureka.

@JasperLoy who ever said anything of too much?

Too anything is bad. That's what "too" means.

Matt Эллен

It means as well, too

@MattЭллен See how bad that is?

Matt Эллен

too terrible

Tchrist only needs 186 views.

Matt Эллен

10:55 AM

KitFox needs 149

And he still has like seven hours.

Hm.

Matt Эллен

12

Q: What does the fox say?

It is true that as a fox, I should know this, so consider this a spoilers warning. In a recent post, Geek Girl mentions that the mating call of the fox is a series of sharp, eerie barks and that this is called gekkering. This is supported by a citation in Wikipedia, but the reference is not one ...

etymology terminology fox-english spoilers

@MattЭллен where? She got her gold.

Matt Эллен

for 42

I thnk

@MattЭллен ah, for the 42 as well.

Matt Эллен

10:55 AM

Where's tchrist's question?

It is on the star wall.

Second from top.

@MattЭллен she fell off the MC yesterday. To be taken over by "In the sentence below is the required before huge and why?"

I feel so sorry.

Matt Эллен

/facepalm

I am still no. 5 and I killed her views, and I had warned her I would.

Doesn't make it any better.

I never needed 6000 views. Only 500.

Hi

What is the difference between these two:

The website is not loading The Website doenst load

Matt Эллен

@Noah What is the difference between "the duck is not swimming" and "the duck doesn't swim"

11:10 AM

I know that, but this one is a bit tricky. Say you send me a link and I click on it, which one would you use?

I would use the website doesn't load.

but they are both fine.

Matt Эллен

@Noah then what is the answer?

In your example, the second one talks about a general attribute of a duck. And the first is merely describing a one time occurrence.

Matt Эллен

so use the one you think is most accurate at the time. Also, "the website doesn't load" can be more emphatic.

But let me give you an example.

Matt, open this link www.blablabla.com

Matt Эллен

11:15 AM

that website doesn't exist :p

Now you open it and it doesnt load, which one would you use?

Yeah, I know, but lets say for the sake of argument that it does

Matt Эллен

I'd use doesn't load.

but I could easily have been primed by your question

since you put "doesn't load" right in there

@Noah Have you upvoted this answer yet? meta.english.stackexchange.com/a/4344/20739

Ha. Bingo.

@Ste I just did

But I didnt receive any hat from you?

11:17 AM

@Noah Thank you! You just got me a hat! :)

Which hat do you want?

Marauder?

Matt Эллен

but on the practical side, "doesn't load" works because websites are given one chance to load. If you report "it doesn't load" while it's still trying, I'd think that was wrong.

can we share the one you have?

You want the headphones?

No, I want a sexy hat.

I'm not sure any of them are particularly sexy...

11:20 AM

@MattЭллен Elaborate please.

Matt Эллен

@Noah elaborate how?

when you click on a link and the website hasn't finished loading and you report that it doesn't load then that's wrong, because it's not finished loading.

@MattЭллен Consider me a dumb kid who doesnt get it that easily.

Matt Эллен

OK, but I still don't know what you don't get

@MattЭллен But if it did?

Say the website finished loading and it didnt load.

Matt Эллен

if it's finished trying to load, then the action is complete.

so it didn't load

your website doesn't load if when it has stopped loading, it hasn't loaded

your website isn't loading if you don't try to load it.

11:24 AM

If there was a spinning "loading" icon and it says "Please wait, loading", you could then say "It isn't loading". But, if the browser isn't doing anything else you could say "It didn't load".

Can that even be a case? A website loads or it doesnt, right?

Matt Эллен

@Ste it'd be difficult to say that it isn't loading if it is trying to load, unless you know how long it's meant to take

True, there'd be a subjective view to whether it was done or not... But if it had been sat there for 10 minutes or it had shown the same behaviour on three or four attempts you could say it "isn't loading". It's clearly trying but it's not succeeding

Matt Эллен

yeah, expectation is the problem there

a website shouldn't take 10 minutes to load

so it's fair to say "it isn't loading"

even if then you're proved wrong

...as is often the case!

11:29 AM

This seems a bit funny.

@RegDwigнt - you are so efficient, removing my vote request from the star wall like 30 seconds after I got guru!

Then you never use doesnt in these cases.

A website either loads or it doesnt. If it's not loading, it's not loading. If it has loaded, then it goes to the past.

Didn't and doesn't are interchangeable in your context until the site does eventually load.

@Ste you are giving me way too little credit there. I removed it like 30 seconds before Noah said "I just did".

Damn, you're better than I thought!

11:32 AM

Effi is my first name, Shiency my second.

I don't like the 'e' in your surname.

It's Irish.

You don't like Irish?

My apologies.

Top o' the morning and all that...

K. I shall forgive you for once.

Wow, Susan has amassed 5k rep in 31 days....

11:36 AM

Someone wants to overtake Barrie.

Haha.

Matt Эллен

Maybe Susan is Barrie

Hmm, what is the etymology of "fast" in the sense of "abstain from food"?

Barrie is too old to be playing with Internet socks.

(happy new year btw)

Matt Эллен

11:38 AM

Happy New Year, Jez

Happy New Year.

And it's Germanic.

It's still "fasten" in German.

Matt Эллен

as in "fasten your seat belt"

No, that's another fasten still.

Matt Эллен

:O

That one is funnily enough related to fast as in quick. Even though it means the exact opposite thing.

11:39 AM

no, but why can it mean "quick" or "go without food", apparently from the same etymology?

Same? Lemme check.

> The original meaning was "hold firmly," and the sense evolution is via "firm control of oneself," to "holding to observance" (cf. Gothic fastan "to keep, observe," also "to fast"). Presumably the whole group is a Germanic translation of Medieval Latin observare "to fast." Related: Fasted; fasting.

Well. That explains it, no?

Gives a whole new meaning to "fast food".

but that doesnt explain the "quick" meaning

Because for that you have to look up the "quick" meaning, duh.

> The adverb meaning "quickly, swiftly" was perhaps in Old English, or from Old Norse fast, either way developing from the sense of "firmly, strongly, vigorously" (cf. to run hard means to run fast; also compare fast asleep), or perhaps from the notion of a runner who "sticks" close to whatever he is chasing.

look it up where?

Yeah. I was about to post that.

11:41 AM

but then, it was supposed to have meant "hold firmly"

Now explain to me why in Modern German "fast" means "almost".

maybe that turned into fasten

@RegDwigнt Did I tell you that my tumbleweed question only had three views in 8 days¬!

Haha

Yes you did.

hah, no

"fasten" has a different etymology, coming from "betroth"

mad

Matt Эллен

11:47 AM

do you think the hat game has brought the review queues to people's attention? Will they be serviced by a large section of our populace?

The hat game?! This is more than a game, Matt! My family's Christmas has been ruined by my love of the hat!

Matt Эллен

:D

I apologise: the hat... tournament

But yes, I think more people will use the review queues now.

@MattЭллен Don't know about that.

It doesn't help that there's no way to see how many Do the Swims and Robocops (and Defenders of the Realm and Conspiracy Theorists) were awarded.

Matt Эллен

hmmm

11:54 AM

Also, you might as well ask if the hat game will make people upvote 40 things a day more often (or any of the other things there are hats for), and if history is any lesson that is not going to happen.

The hats are really just there to maximize participation when there'd otherwise be very little of it.

This was most evident in the first three days, if you remember. People were getting hats left and right, by the dozens, and yet the site, all sites, were completely dead.

Smoke and mirrors.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt that's quite different. Making people realise about the review queues could make them use them, especially if they hadn't before.

@RegDwigнt that's true

Well. I'm not sure how a hat, which is only ever displayed on a page that regulars like Rob still don't know how to access after all this time, how the hat will draw more attention to the queues than the "review" link right on top of every page.

Matt Эллен

because people who ignored the link up to now will have visited it

Now you're clutching at straws, Matt.

Next thing you tell me, if you tell people to read FAQs they actually will.

You are funny.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt I don't think so

they go to the hat page look at how to get the hat figure out where the review queue is and low and behold they find the queue

12:00 PM

@MattЭллен and my point is that just because you and I have figured out how to go to the hat page, doesn't mean anyone else has. And I mean it only half as jokingly as it sounds.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt and just because Rob hasn't doesn't mean that only we have

But Rob is our rôle model.

Matt Эллен

:D

You and I mustn't have found the page, either.

Anyway. All of this is conjecture.

Matt Эллен

He is the Bird House in our souls

12:01 PM

60% of the time there's 100% nothing to review anyway.

Matt Эллен

true

That alone drives people away faster than anything.

rôle??

Yes.

8

Q: What is the distinction between “role” and “rôle” [with a circumflex]?

One of our users, Stan Rogers, mentioned there was such a distinction, I think, when he answered a question and talked about how the orthography of foreign loan-words typically changes to conform with the usual rules of English spelling. In passing he used the word rôle as an example and said som...

meaning differences diacritics

Matt Эллен

What is the distinction between mole and hôle?

12:08 PM

I am soooo gonna circumflex role from now on.

Alt 0244

ôô

ôh my gosh!

Matt Эллен

also: ALT GR + 6 followed by o (if you're using the United Kingdom extended keyboard )

ê_ê

ó

That gives me ó

é

Matt Эллен

don't hold down alt gr after pressing 6

o

didn't work.

é

Alt-GR and e gives é

Matt Эллен

yeah, you'll be using the regular united kingdom keyboard

extended one gives you a few more options

12:12 PM

I would imagine so.

Matt Эллен

not enough, but still

ö

I'm quite used to the Alt-xxxx keystrokes having had to spend a lot of time working in marketing...™

@RegDwigнt Why don't you get the Eureka hat and go to #1?

You couldn't be caught then...

@Ste I have no idea how to get it and I don't really care much for manually-awarded hats.

@MattЭллен Sarah Jessica Parker.

Matt Эллен

user image

GIS has flagged my query

Insetos dou Braseu.

That's Belarus, Belgium, and what? Tamil rebels?

Matt Эллен

12:21 PM

hmmm

Ah yes, Bangladesh.

I wasn't too far off!

I knew it was there somewhere.

Matt Эллен

3 and a bit megametres

At your current speed, you'll cover that distance in 1/10 of a second.

Matt Эллен

Google maps is odd. it will plot a route internationally pretty much anywhere unless the route goes through China. But it will plot routes within China

It's a complot.

Where com stands for commie.

Matt Эллен

12:27 PM

:D

Huh, where are the hats?

The link is gone from the top bar.

> Service unavailable.

"I am a year old user now, with a decent reputation, but sometimes, it always bugs me that what we should really ask the questions and how?"

12:53 PM

@RegDwigнt Yes, it's pretty hard to ask a "good" question on ELU. I think we should lower our standards a bit and be merged with ELL.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt I read that earlier. That's the one with the answer that says "I should be able to ask puzzle questions on SO"

@JasperLoy so your solution to stuff being too good is to deliberately make it worse?

@RegDwigнt Yes, we need more quantity, less quality.

My English & Korean speaking is often stuttering

Matt Эллен

pah! Tosh and tommyrot

12:56 PM

The first rule of Fight Club is you don't lower your standards and merge it with ELL.

3

@EnglishMaster Do you naturally stutter?

Yeah

@MattЭллен there's no answer that I can see. You must be confusing things. Or perhaps it's been deleted. Though on MSO that's rather unlikely.

I have clear idea what I want to say in my mind but I can't say it without avoiding fillers

or long pauses

@EnglishMaster People who talk very well on TV usually talk rubbish, that is why they never stop.

12:58 PM

HAMMERTIME!

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt oh, you're right. I was thinking of a different question altogether

Can someone tell me what HAMMERTIME is?

Matt Эллен

!!youtube hammertime

@MattЭллен So why does the bot say that periodically?

Matt Эллен

12:59 PM

watch the video! it will explain

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