English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

1:50 AM

@JosephWeissman Bananas are my favourite fruit.

Peter PAD

hey anyone, I got problem that wanna to ask

What's different between "my relatives" and "relatives of mine"?

cornbread ninja

3:27 AM

@Mitch they're definitely bored.

@KitFox sorry, I was distracted at the time. I didn't realize the geographic center was that far north. Hutch might be in the dead center of Kansas, though.

Cerberus

3:49 AM

@PeterPAD No real difference.

@JosephWeissman Gosh, I am sooo surprised. feigns surprise

Joseph Weissman

You alright, Cerbie? :D

Cerberus

@MετάEd Why are we a red line?

Why not a branch?

Joseph Weissman

How's it going, buddy?

Cerberus

Very well, thank you.

Just came home.

Not tipsy at all.

And you? What is it for you, evening?

@MετάEd In short, I call teleology.

Joseph Weissman

Pretty well. Got to run across the store for provisions. Back momentarily.

Cerberus

3:52 AM

OK!

Provisions matter.

Mahnax

4:08 AM

Good evening.

Joseph Weissman

I have been provided for

Mahnax

I should stop eating these cough drops, but they are so yummy and fresh. They make my sinuses feel all happy for a few moments, too.

Crazy Buddy

@Mahnax Umm... Morning here :P

Mahnax

@CrazyBuddy Oh, clever. Got me with a technicality.

It's five o'clock somewhere, and that somewhere is here four hours ago.

Crazy Buddy

:-D

@Cerberus Every chat room has an enthusiast :D

Joseph Weissman

4:11 AM

you were talking about pessimism yesterday, cerbie

thought you might enjoy thacker's piece in continent if you hadn't seen it yet: continentcontinent.cc/index.php/continent/article/viewArticle/…

he ends with this great quote from shestov

> When a person is young he writes because it seems to him he has discovered a new almighty truth which he must make haste to impart to forlorn humankind. Later, becoming more modest, he begins to doubt his truths: and then he tries to convince himself. A few more years go by, and he knows he was mistaken all round, so there is no need to convince himself. Nevertheless he continues to write, because he is not fit for any other work, and to be accounted a superfluous person is so horrible.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Silly addict.

@JosephWeissman Haha, sounds familiar.

@CrazyBuddy C'est moi.

Mahnax

@Cerberus I'm not addicted, man. I just like them, okay? OK??! Get it through your head!!! Come on bro. Just let me have a little more. Just one more cough drop, please? coughs See, I need it!

Crazy Buddy

@Cerberus Meaning..? :(

Joseph Weissman

"it is I"

"It's me!"

Cerberus

@Mahnax ...

Why don't you take up a carrot addiction instead?

@JosephWeissman Oui, c'est ça.

Mahnax

4:20 AM

@Cerberus Haha.

Cerberus

Justement.

I could use some food myself...

Mahnax

Oh, I have ramen cooling down. I forgot about it.

Cerberus

We ate what was left of the quiche I had made yesterday.

Yay!

Mahnax

Yum, instant noodles!

Perfect for sick Mahnax.

sips tea

Cerberus

Are you sick?

That's bad.

Joseph Weissman

4:21 AM

Lev Shestov

Lev Isaakovich Shestov (), born Yehuda Leyb Schwarzmann (), was a Ukrainian/Russian existentialist philosopher. Born in Kiev (Russian Empire) on , he emigrated to France in 1921, fleeing from the aftermath of the October Revolution. He lived in Paris until his death on November 19, 1938. Life Shestov was born Lev Isaakovich Schwarzmann in Kiev into a Jewish family. He obtained an education at various places, due to fractious clashes with authority. He went on to study law and mathematics at the Moscow State University but after a clash with the Inspector of Students he was told to ret...

Mahnax

8 hours ago, by Mahnax

Also, I am sick right now. It is unpleasant.

'tis unfortunate, but at least I feel better than I did when I posted that message.

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman A Jew??

@Mahnax Poor you.

Not the flu?

Mahnax

Nah, just a nasty little cold.

Cerberus

Bleh.

Mahnax

Yesterday was the sore throat/no voice day, and today is the "faucet nose/stuffed nose" combo day.

Tomorrow better be "feeling dainty and fresh" day.

2

Cerberus

4:23 AM

Ugh.

Decongestant + aspirin.

Mahnax

I'm supposed to take a night decongestant thing that will help me sleep before I go to bed.

Joseph Weissman

Yeah, Shestov is Jewish?

Cerberus

@Mahnax Take it during the day too, makes you feel better. Unless it is some special, dangerous kind.

@JosephWeissman We might be anti-semitists! Have you considered our sensibilities?

Mahnax

@Cerberus Well, tomorrow I have an eight hour shift.

Although this is apparently a day/night thing, so I'll take the daytime one tomorrow.

Joseph Weissman

Emmanuel Lévinas

|birth_place = Kovno, Russian Empire |death_date = |death_place = Paris, France |school_tradition = Continental philosophy |main_interests = Existential phenomenology Talmudic studies EthicsOntology |notable_ideas = "The Other""The Face" |influences = |influenced = }} Emmanuel Lévinas (; 12 January 1906 – 25 December 1995) was a French philosopher and Talmudic commentator of Lithuanian Jewish origin. Life Born into a Litvak family Emanuelis Lévinas (later adapted to French orthography as Emmanuel Lévinas) received a traditional Jewish education in Lithuania. After th...

Cerberus

4:25 AM

@Mahnax Noooo....

Joseph Weissman

more jewish philosophers :)

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman That is a familiar name.

Joseph Weissman

you guys ought to know this one:

Mahnax

@Cerberus Yup! Up at 5:00, bright and early.

Joseph Weissman

Jacques Derrida

Jacques Derrida (; ; July 15, 1930 – October 9, 2004) was a French philosopher, born in French Algeria. He developed a form of semiotic analysis known as deconstruction. His work was labeled as post-structuralism and associated with postmodern philosophy. He published more than 40 books, together with essays and public presentations. He had a significant influence upon the humanities, art and art critics. Particularly in his later writings, he frequently addressed ethical and political themes. His work influenced various activists and political movements. Derrida became a well-k...

Cerberus

4:26 AM

@JosephWeissman Of course.

@Mahnax Means nothing to me. Is that 5 pm? It has to be.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Um. 5:00 AM.

Cerberus

My friend is totally into Foucault.

@Mahnax Quit the joking.

Mahnax

@Cerberus I wish I could, Cerb. I really do.

Joseph Weissman

What does your friend like about Michel Foucault?

heylookatmygames.com/ohno

Cerberus

How he deconstructs social labels and such.

Joseph Weissman

4:28 AM

Oh yeah. All over the place.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Hire a replacement?

Joseph Weissman

It's like, "is that social label?" And then: "I'm gonna deconstruct the heck out of it."

No mercy.

Foucault will get at you, dog.

Cerberus

I have failed.

@JosephWeissman Yeah, well, my main question is: we know this already, now what are we supposed to do with it?

Joseph Weissman

His introduction to Anti-Oedipus is pretty invigorating in that respect.

He writes very concretely about strategies of resistance.

Cerberus

11

Q: What is the practical usefulness of post-modernist sociology à la Foucault, e.g. of the insight that "insanity is merely a label applied by society"?

Foucault says what constitutes insanity is a label determined by society. Whether someone is sane or insane is not a clear, objective fact. I do not disagree. He says this labelling can be dangerous. At first glance, this all seems evident but somewhat trivial: of course it is bad to have people...

Joseph Weissman

4:31 AM

richardpayton.pbworks.com/w/page/12580685/…

Mahnax

@Cerberus It's too late for that, but I should be fine.

Joseph Weissman

We miss you over there, buddy.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Don't forget: decongestant + aspirin.

Joseph Weissman

= instant death

j/k i have no idea

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman Yeah, I should visit there more often! But I always feel that an answer should be very long and complete...

Mahnax

4:33 AM

@Cerberus Yep. I will be sure to take the decongestant. I don't think we have aspirin though.

Cerberus

@JosephWeissman Almost right, except that it is "feeling OK"!

@Mahnax Or paracetamol, rather.

We call that aspirin.

Any pain-killer.

In the morning.

After breakfast.

Preferably not on an empty stomach.

Mahnax

Right.

Joseph Weissman

> “I don't feel that it is necessary to know exactly what I am. The main interest in life and work is to become someone else that you were not in the beginning.”

Mahnax

I wouldn't have to get up so early if it didn't take my hair so long to dry.

Cerberus

0

Q: Does physicalism *prove* that the universe is self-subsistent?

I've often heard/read people (Hawking, Dawkins etc) making out that Physics or Physicalism proves that there is no God, or no need for one. Yet, it seems to me that it is an assumption that is smuggled in with the very notion of what Physicalism means. To then go on to say that it proves such a...

philosophy-of-science philosophy-of-religion

What to answer to this one, for example?

@Mahnax Umm why does your hair need to dry?

Then take a show now, no shower in the morning.

In the entirety of my life, I have taken a shower in the morning perhaps a dozen times.

I hate it.

Mahnax

4:38 AM

We are to look presentable and professional at work.

Cerberus

Nobody can tell when you have showered.

False.

Fact.

True.

My hair looks like straw if I do not shower. It is very bad.

Joseph Weissman

4:38 AM

Hats.

Mahnax

At work?

Cerberus

You just comb your hair with water in the morning.

Not too much.

Joseph Weissman

You know, or just leave it messy.

Mahnax

It still feels icky.

Joseph Weissman

Bedhead is "in".

Cerberus

4:39 AM

@Mahnax Nonsense!

Mahnax

@Cerberus You don't know my hair!

I hate my hair. Way too thick, nasty stuff.

Cerberus

My hair is terribly unruly too.

Very thick as well.

Mahnax

Quite soft, though, so I guess it has something going for it.

Cerberus

See?

Joseph Weissman

"The pains of being an hairless ape"

Cerberus

4:40 AM

@JosephWeissman I suppose...but I get weird peaks at the back of my head...

Mahnax

@Cerberus I get "wings" on the sides of my head.

Joseph Weissman

(mostly) hairless

Cerberus

Haha, wings?

@JosephWeissman Some men are apes.

Mahnax

Yes, my hair sticks out to the side quite far.

They are incredibly difficult to tame without a proper shower.

Cerberus

Kill it with hair gel and hair spray.

Lots.

Mahnax

4:42 AM

I would rather not have a shellacked dome for a head, thanks.

Cerberus

Or just don't worry about it. Chances are 99 % that you are exaggerating, as normal people do.

People literally always tell me my hair looks good when I haven't washed it for two days.

Mahnax

I am trying my best not to exaggerate. I will admit that perhaps my hair looks passable without a shower, (provided there are no wings), but I can still feel that it has not been cleaned.

Cerberus

Seriously, I would never get up early for my hair.

Mahnax

It's not just hair. It's routine, cleanliness, etc.

I shower every day. Period.

Cerberus

As long as you don't look like a monkey, I am quite sure nobody at Starbucks will care.

Mahnax

4:43 AM

Going without makes me feel anxious.

Cerberus

Silly.

You won't stink after 8 hours.

Many people shower every other day (except after physical exercise).

Mahnax

Yes, but those many people are not me, and I prefer to shower every day.

Cerberus

You just need to be shaken up!

Mahnax

Not in terms of showers, I don't!

Cerberus

Pah.

Mahnax

4:45 AM

Hehe.

Cerberus

Suit yourself!

Atheists stink, or they're no true atheists.

And their hair must look messy, so commands the 13th commandment of atheism.

Mahnax

Umm, that is not the atheism I subscribe to.

Cerberus

The it's not the Right atheism.

Mahnax

Thirteen??! Christianity was much simpler. I should go back.

Cerberus

I...

The other 12 are just the usual stuff, like "kill people" etc.

Not hard to remember.

Mahnax

4:48 AM

Oh, right. “Corrupt children”, you know.

Cerberus

Yeah.

Mahnax

“Plant seeds of doubt in the faithful.”

“Water the aforementioned seeds twice a day.”

Cerberus

Yeah that's great.

Mahnax

I see. Well, I'm taking the nighttime decongestant stuff now.

Cerberus

Good.

Mahnax

4:51 AM

Ah, liquid gel capsules. Lovely.

Cerberus

By the way, some men wear hairnets at night. Just saying.

Mahnax

…

Cerberus

Like George Clooney in this film.

I'm not saying you should, but it would no doubt help...

Mahnax

I'll just stick to my showers, thanks.

Cerberus

What time would you get up if you did't have to shower?

Mahnax

4:52 AM

I have never considered such an option, since I have never considered not showering in the morning.

5:30 AM, most likely.

Cerberus

Okay.

I don't think I need to restate my opinion.

Mahnax

Nor do I.

Cerberus

Good.

Glad we are agreed.

Mahnax

'tis good.

So it looks like I will be spending three days in Helsinki and three days in Tallinn this summer, during my vacation.

Cerberus

I'm going to sleep in tomorrow, and not shower! Yay.

Cool.

Mahnax

4:55 AM

shudders

Sorry, that was just a… chill.

Cerberus

Hehe.

I never stink.

Mahnax

Is that because you spray yourself down with perfume?

Cerberus

Just don't wear the same shirt more than once or twice.

No.

Yuck.

Mahnax

Hehe.

Cerberus

I said "not stink", which is incompatible with lots of bottle-chemicals.

I wonder why people do that.

Mahnax

4:57 AM

The other day some girls sprayed a lot of perfume in the hallway.

It was unpleasant.

A teacher yelled at them.

My life is so exciting. I should write a book.

Cerberus

Hehe.

Girls...

Mahnax

Oh, so I have a two week break now, with three exams during that time.

Cerberus

Nice.

Mahnax

And after the break, I'll have new classes! How exciting.

Cerberus

What subjects?

Mahnax

5:02 AM

I'll have Maths, Social Studies, French, English, and Chemistry.

I had Maths first semester, too, but it was year 11. The new Maths will be year 12 with a different teacher.

Cerberus

Ah OK. So new sub-subjects?

Mahnax

I guess so, though I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Cerberus

Who knows, they might teach you how to speak English and be a sociolite!

Mahnax

I… can't wait.

Cerberus

I know!

You could be the next party crasher to get in a picture with Michelle Obama!

Mahnax

5:07 AM

What an excellent goal to strive for.

And now I must to bed.

Farewell.

Cerberus

2009 U.S. state dinner security breaches

On November 24, 2009, Michaele and Tareq Salahi ( and ), a married couple from Virginia, and Carlos Allen (from the District of Columbia), attended a White House state dinner for Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, without being invited guests. The Salahis and Allen arrived separately and did not appear to have colluded in their efforts. They were able to pass through two security checkpoints (including one requiring positive photo identification), enter the White House complex, and meet President Barack Obama. Fallout from the incident included an array of security investigations, lega...

Good night!

I knew you would get excited.

I hope you will still be able to sleep!

Mahnax

I hope so too! The nighttime sleepy decongestant is supposed to help with that, actually.

But yes, I should be off. Bye!

Cerberus

Bye!

Cerberus

10:41 AM

Hi people.

its_me

11:17 AM

Hello all :) Can anyone tell me what train station/railway station is normally called in english-speaking countries? the same?

Cerberus

11:39 AM

You've just said it?

Train station

A train station, also referred to as a railway station (in most forms of English including British English, Australian English, Indian English, etc.) or a railroad station (in US English) and often shortened to just station, is a railway facility where trains regularly stop to load or unload passengers or freight. It generally consists of a platform next to the track and a station building (depot) providing related services such as ticket sales and waiting rooms. If a station is on a single track main line, it usually has a passing loop to facilitate the traffic. The smallest statio...

tchrist

12:00 PM

@Cerberus How often do you vacwm? Well, or h∞ver, if you prefer.

Cerberus

@tchrist Um, usually when I expect guests? Or when it gets out of hand? I don't know, every two weeks or so? That's for my sitting room: other areas less often.

Why?

tchrist

Heh. Yeah, guests matter.

It always seems extravagant that hotels do so daily, but they have a lot of guests.

My kitchen is tile not carpet, so nearly never gets the machine treatment, just a sweep. But it is definitely the highest-traffic room.

Cerberus

I don't know, I expect higher standard of hygiene in an hotel, because—who knows what diseases people have who stay there?

tchrist

What I hate is when people drop by unexpectedly and you haven’t done the dishes, and so you feel compelled to tidying up right then and there.

Cerberus

@tchrist A sweep? With a broom?

tchrist

12:05 PM

I think hotels do it so they don’t have to replace the carpet so often.

Yes, with a broom.

Cerberus

That's about as much work as vacuuming...

tchrist

I just find a a vacwming machine a big heavy lummux to port around compared with a broom. But you can’t sweep a rug and have it do any good.

Cerberus

@tchrist Why do you feel compelled?

tchrist

OCD

I dunno.

But I do.

It is like I am blind to a cluttered room unless someone else is looking at it.

Cerberus

I keep my hoover in my kitchen-cum-sitting-room, actually.

tchrist

12:07 PM

Oh, you have one of those so-called studio apartments, right?

Cerberus

@tchrist Yeah, I have that too, but dishes? No. I put those in the machine anyway. And on the countertop/stove, I don't care.

It's not a studio, that is, what we call studios don't have separate bedrooms. I do.

tchrist

I’ve been working 16–18-hour days for the last few, and things sort of just accumulate. I have clean dishes in dishwasher, unputaway. And a couple things stacked on top.

Cerberus

How many dishes do you use daily?

And why so many hours?

tchrist

I hope no one drops by today.

So many hours because of deadlines set by people who have hopelessly naïve notions of how much work a task entails.

Cerberus

I don't think anybody expects kitchens to be all tidy upon a surprise visit.

tchrist

12:11 PM

A lot of it is modifying other people’s code. This code was written by people who are were shit-for-programmers. It is a nightmare.

Cerberus

I do remove certain items before leaving the house for social occasions, such as the blanket on the chair I'm sitting on now.

Modifying someone else's code? Ugh.

In my case, it may still be better than my own "code", but even then it totally sucks. I have been doing that for the past two hours, without result.

tchrist

The entire application comprises thousands of processes running on something like three dozen machines. Its complexity exceeds the capacity of the human mind. At least, if you want to leave room up there to still remember how to tie your shoes.

Cerberus

A smaller project got out of hand, and so the code is like a mediaeval house with annexes and uneven corridors?

tchrist

I don’t mean three dozen machines run the same thing. Parts are here, parts are there. And how they all connect and interact is the stuff of flowcharts-from-hell.

Yes, it used to run on one machine.

With only a handful of processes.

Now it is staggeringly immense.

So they expect me to add new pieces here and there, modifying existing stuff and writing some of my own, and figuring out how the fuck it is put together, and how not, takes an incredible amount of time.

And almost always you find components written by junior people who just Have No Clue, and you weep.

Cerberus

Did not one person/team extend it according to a plan?

Can whoever did be consulted?

tchrist

12:17 PM

I find one component that was needlessly double-copying all the data. This made me mad, because performance is always a concern in this super-high-traffic situation.

And I have to copy-and-modify that piece for another purpose, and I said I’d be damned if I am going to pay for two copies of every pieces of several billion events per day.

And then I find that in the next piece in the data-processing chain, some idiot fuck has needlessly copied the data TEN TIMES OVER. Just fucking nuts.

Cerberus

Haha no way.

tchrist

And these programs have no structure. It is like somebody took a ten-line shell script and expanded it into some multi-thousand-line monstrosity. It is unmaintainable and unextensible.

Cerberus

By "the data", you mean some database, or some input data?

tchrist

It is a processing chain that handles the raw call data for a telcom.

Cerberus

Ah.

tchrist

12:21 PM

This has to turn into bills, reports, fraud-analysis, etc.

You find huge programs that are trying to do six different things at once instead of six little programs each doing one thing well. Because people kept hacking on things instead of doing it right. They do not understand good design.

We’re down to a very few highly senior people of high talent, a bunch of offshore junior people to do the grunt work, and an unnumbered cast of dozens of ex-employees who contributed to the code base in the last twelve years and are damned lucky they aren’t still here, or they would be shot.

Cerberus

How can you even tell if something you changed botched it up?

tchrist

A PhD software architect ran screaming from the project. And well that he did.

@Cerberus Man oh man. These people do not have a formal unit test procedure of the kind I am used to. But they do have a team of testers and elaborate pre- and post-modification comparison framework to see what differences in the numbers that one release incurs compared with last month’s code.

Cerberus

But how can you tell? I mean, you need to be checking this all the time as you work.

tchrist

The senior people are all old. Two of us are 49, one 50, one 55, one 58. And the other 49-year-old I should have talked to was pulled on to another project and I didn’t realize that he had all the knowledge I needed, and the others just kinda didn’t answered me. So I lost a lot of time before I figured out to talk to the other guy.

@Cerberus Yes yes yes. See, it is just fucking nuts.

Cerberus

You can't simply flee?

user19161

12:28 PM

@tchrist It is having sex with nuts?

tchrist

It probably doesn’t help that almost none of us are co-located. The guy I ended up needing to talk to, who actually understands this stuff and designed the framework that others have so abused, lives up in the mountains and like me also only makes the drive once or twice a week.

@Cerberus Many have, it turns out. But it pays the bills.

Cerberus

Skype?

tchrist

Yes, we do that.

It is a telecom company.

In fact, I am in the Voice-Over-IP division.

So it ironic you should say Skype.

But it is not the same as sitting around together and just shooting the shit.

Cerberus

Heh.

user19161

Hmm, I see some facial resemblance between cerb and aedia.

tchrist

12:32 PM

Ok, the first cup of coffee is in me.

I should get to work.

Yesterday I worked from 2am till 9pm.

user19161

@tchrist You need more sleep.

tchrist

But I got a milestone done, so allowed myself to sleep until 5am.

Cerberus

Don't sacrifice your health to their problems.

Deadlines can be moved.

tchrist

I’m starting to get hives on my hands. It comes from stress.

This is a three-month, almost four-month project.

Cerberus

Stop working so hard!

Very unhealthy.

user19161

12:33 PM

@tchrist Do you mean rash? It could be dust or sunlight too.

tchrist

There is a month of integration testing, then a month of application testing.

@JasonBourne No. I know whereof I speak.

Cerberus

Tell them you will either break down with a burn-out, or you work fewer hours. Or just work fewer hours.

tchrist

The problem is a senior VP came down on us and said the coding had to be done in two weeks so that they could test sample calls.

Cerberus

Too bad.

tchrist

This is now the end of week three. Hence the double-time days.

Cerberus

12:34 PM

He's not the King.

user19161

Just tell them it is ridiculous to work so much, full stop.

user19161

If they give you a problem, tell them to talk to me in this chat.

tchrist

They are not programmers. They have no idea what shitty code they have.

Hah.

Cerberus

It's not your fault, and your health is more important than a silly deadline that can be moved anyway.

user19161

I will scold them for you.

user19161

12:36 PM

Many bosses just sit in their ivory tower, not knowing what is going on at the ground level.

user19161

They ask you to do this and that but cannot do it themselves.

Cerberus

Yeah, just tell them it cannot be done if that is the case.

tchrist

You do not understand. Execs never understand that software is a creative process with an open-ended time schedule. They expect it to be like manufacturing with interchangeable assembly-line workers that get everything done in finite and predictable time, with one person much like the next.

Cerberus

Too bad for them.

user19161

Most bosses are quite stupid.

Cerberus

12:37 PM

Warn them beforehand.

user19161

The smartest people in the world don't make very much money.

Cerberus

Tell them it is like predicting how many weeks it will take you to catch Moby Dick.

tchrist

It is my fault for not speaking up during the so-called design process and saying I did not understand enough of it to guarantee delivery times.

Cerberus

Did you guarantee delivery times?

tchrist

That is overstating it, but they were given to me.

user19161

12:38 PM

Well, it's OK to speak up now. Obtain a compromise.

tchrist

My boss is a programmer, and very good at checking with me about schedule slips.

user19161

People can meet halfway.

tchrist

But when you do not know what you do not know, it is very hard to say when you will know it.

Too many unknown unknowns.

Cerberus

That doesn't mean you have no options but to meet their deadlines, which have been missed already anyway.

user19161

Yes, even Fedora 18 got delayed by two months just because of a stupid installer.

tchrist

12:39 PM

The design was simple: modify existing code to handle the new stuff.

Cerberus

Everything always gets delayed, fact of life.

user19161

And sometimes we try to do the seemingly impossible.

Cerberus

Two or three extremely long days in a row may be OK, once or twice a year.

tchrist

I had had no idea that the code to be modified was a hell-hole rat’s nuts of unmodifiably complex terror. Dumbasses who use global variables all over, who do not understand object-oriented programming, who write things in a way you cannot extend it by hardcoding shit all over the place.

Cerberus

Tell your boss!

Meanwhile, I'm going to try and catch a few more hours of sleep. 3.5 is just not enough.

tchrist

12:41 PM

It is said that no battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. So too does no design ever survive contact with real code.

Go sleep.

I must go hack.

Cerberus

Good luck!

tchrist

Thanks.

Cerberus

Bye, both!

user19161

Good luck @tchrist! There can be miracles when you believe...

tchrist

@JasonBourne Sorry, I am not delusional.

user19161

12:42 PM

@Cerberus Good night! Poof!

Cerberus

> “Singapore heeft een groeiende bevolking nodig. Dus vergeet dat zwaaien met de vlag, maar zeg op 9 augustus: Ik ben een patriottistische man, jij bent een vaderlandsliefde vrouw, laten we onze nationale plicht doen en nieuw leven creëren.”

Hilarious.

A government advertisement.

user19161

@Cerberus What does it say?

Cerberus

"Singapore needs a growing population. So forget about waving the flag, but say on August 9: I am a patriotic man, you are a woman who loves her country, let's carry out our national duty and create new life."

Have you seen any advertisements like this?

its_me

@Cerberus Ah, okay. :P

user19161

@Cerberus Oh, funny! No, I don't follow news. I am sick and tired of society.

Cerberus

12:45 PM

OK. It's funny.

Well, good night!

Ish.

its_me

night, night!

Matt Эллен

1:20 PM

day, day!

Hello.

hello

Quite silent here.

everyone's asleep

I think so.

2:33 PM

Shhhh.

Robusto

morðor n morðres/-), m (morðres/morðras) deed of violence, murder, homocide, manslaughter; mortal sin, crime; injury, punishment, torment, misery

Sound familiar, Tolkien fans?

Mitch

2:45 PM

@cornbreadninja Oh. Sure. Thanks. Take the cat's side.

plots cat's downfall with dancing laser pen

MετάEd

@Cerberus I think the answer is "poor graphic design". Every element should mean something; I don't think the colors mean anything.

@Robusto Of course. There are intentional parallels between modern languages and the languages invented by Tolkien. He was inventing a creation myth. His myth comes complete with an explanation of today's languages and how they developed from the original tongue of creation.

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