English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

4:00 AM

blathers and froths

Easterwood?

David Wallace

Go on - post an answer that says that the takenness (or "taken" for short) belongs to the seat!

tchrist

That’s Don Bosque de la Pascua to his friends in California Alta.

And who is president Obama?

Must be the chair of some Irish frat.

David Wallace

Oh, and here was me thinking that you were having a RegDwight-style rant about the easiness of the question.

tchrist

Why bother? That is self-evident.

I’ve decided to pick on the form, since the content was already pessimal.

She meant President Obama. And Eastwood.

Yes, I’m assigning gender.

Arbitrarily.

tchrist

4:19 AM

This is an interesting use of were:

-2

Q: Add Post to wordpress, when double clicking on a position google map

I was wondering if it were possible for someone to add a marker on dblclick to a googlemap on my wordpress site, that would simultaneously create a post, so that the marker info would stay on the map?

Jeff

@David I thought you were a math guy? :D

David Wallace

Err, maybe?

But I spoke English before I spoke mathematics.

Jeff

@DavidWallace are you sure about that? studies show that infants, pre-talking age, recognize some math ideas.

they just can't articulate them very well! :D

Cerberus

Like the number one?

David Wallace

I don't doubt it in the slightest.

It's hard to walk without doing mathematics.

Shog9

4:28 AM

@tchrist Didn't say it made sense; but that was the fear.

David Wallace

Specifically calculus and trigonometry.

tchrist

@Shog9 Yah ok. I am not very good at predicting the devious extents people will go to just to game the system.

Spare Oom

@tchrist Some form of subjunctive?

David Wallace

It's quite hard to argue that "were" in that position is ungrammatical.

tchrist

@SpareOom Accept that that is the if that means whether.

I would have used the conditional.

David Wallace

4:31 AM

DO you mean "except"?

Cerberus

@SpareOom It is a possibly very old use of the past subjunctive that Fowler already advised against.

Whether it was ever common I do not know.

tchrist

I was wondering whether it would be possible for someone to add a marker that would create a post so that the marker would stay on the map.

What I just wrote it grammatical. For me. Of course.

I’m not sure the original is.

David Wallace

Umm, I would say "is", rather than "would be".

tchrist

That would be better, yes.

David Wallace

I know Americans love their woulds.

tchrist

4:33 AM

Naw.

Cerberus

Depends on whether the would is meant to express extra politeness.

tchrist

It’s just dodging around the mightness of it all.

David Wallace

@Cerberus Cutting!

Cerberus

Cutting whom or what?

On second thought, it isn't meant to be polite in the original, so I wouldn't use would either.

David Wallace

About 300 million people in a single blow.

Cerberus

4:34 AM

Oh, I like that!

tchrist

Dear Sir, I was wondering whether it would be possible for us to depart later than scheduled? Please.

Cerberus

That's the polite version.

David Wallace

That's OK if you pronounce "scheduled" with a "sh".

tchrist

Only if I use sir as a pronoun.

Would sir be so kind as to ... ?

Cerberus

Where possible expresses a hybrid of desirability and possibility; in the original question, it is only possibility.

tchrist

4:35 AM

Which would crack people up completely here, if they even understood it.

Shyam K

@DavidWallace skedjule.. this pronunciation is American or British?

David Wallace

@ShyamK Largely American and Canadian.

tchrist

@DavidWallace Both.

But there are Brits who say shhed.

Gr.

Misfire.

David Wallace

Only because they've spent too much time listening to American TV or movies.

tchrist

All North Americans use sh-.

So do many Brits.

But some Brits use sk-.

Shyam K

4:37 AM

so skedjule is wrong or right?

David Wallace

Are you sure you have that the right way round?

I've never heard an American say sh.

tchrist

You’re right. I have it backwards.

David Wallace

Whereas sh seems to be preferred in the UK.

tchrist

I don’t know on preferred. Perfectly common, yes.

But the other is also heard a good bit.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus It doesn't seem particularly strange to me. I bet I've used it, perhaps unadvisedly.

tchrist

4:39 AM

@ShyamK skejule is just fine.

David Wallace

if you're in North America.

Shyam K

and I am no where near N America :)

tchrist

Again, I have definitely heard folks in the UK use the sk- version, because I noticed it.

Cerberus

@SpareOom It was probably once used, so you have my blessing!

tchrist

Because I too had thought they all used sh-, but they do not.

Spare Oom

4:40 AM

@DavidWallace That's probably the clearest, since he's presumably asking a real not hypothetical question.

David Wallace

3 mins ago, by David Wallace

Only because they've spent too much time listening to American TV or movies.

tchrist

I can’t answer that.

I just know that sh- is also heard in Britain, because I’ve heard it there from natives.

Damn it.

sk-.

That must be my bedtime.

Cerberus

Okay, good night!

tchrist

Can’t keep anything straight.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus I get some of my speech patterns from my father, who would have been wont to use old types of speech. :D

tchrist

4:41 AM

Good night.

Cerberus

I was announcing my own bed time.

David Wallace

Don't go hopping into bed with any strange New Zealanders!

Cerberus

@SpareOom Well, not that old, hehe.

Shyam K

why does Brit English and American English have different spellings of words? like with the 'z' and 's' and then 'color' and 'colour' .. why?

Cerberus

@DavidWallace We shan't!

Bye all!

Shyam K

4:42 AM

good night :) @tchrist

David Wallace

Actually, I was addressing tchrist.

Cerberus

Well, I shan't either.

There.

poof

David Wallace

Well, that's a relief, @Cerberus!

Spare Oom

'Night. @tchrist

Mahnax

G'night, Cerby and Tchrist.

Cerberus

4:43 AM

@DavidWallace I know, I know...

Hi and bye Bob!

real poof

Spare Oom

@ShyamK and practice and practise

David Wallace

In UK English, practise is a verb and practice is a noun.

Shyam K

@SpareOom yes.. why these silly differences?

Spare Oom

@Cerberus @Cerberus Bye.

@ShyamK We've been away from there for a couple hundred years.

@ShyamK Where are you from? Has your language changed in the last 200 odd years?

David Wallace

More importantly, spelling had not yet been standardised at the time that the USA was formed. So it had a separate standardisation effort in USA from that of the UK.

Shyam K

4:46 AM

@SpareOom we as in Americans?

Spare Oom

Yes. That's what I meant.

@DavidWallace Thank you for correcting me. :)

David Wallace

Did I? I don't think you were ever wrong!

Shyam K

@SpareOom India.. British rule at one point.. so I guess our English started of as British English.. then I don't know.. we've had loads of 'foreign powers' rule us at some point or the other.. Right now I have now idea what kind of English ppl here use

Spare Oom

Then improving.

Shyam K

@DavidWallace well that explains alot

English here is mainly a combination of whatever we see on TV and get from school

Spare Oom

4:49 AM

@DavidWallace But I should say more than past 200 years as well, come to think of it. Changes would have started even before independence.

David Wallace

@ShyamK It's not particularly important. If you come from India, nobody will expect English to be your first language; so it really doesn't matter whether you try to speak UK English or try to speak US English; or for that matter, any other variety. Unless, of course, you're trying to pretend to be either American or British (omits the obvious racist example).

Spare Oom

I mostly spell like an American (though poorly), but I like some English phrases mixed in my speech occasionally.

I have a soft spot for British tv.

David Wallace

I like it when Americans speak English too.

Spare Oom

I wouldn't presume to put on the accent though, except when I came back from a visit to Scotland to mess with my mom.

@DavidWallace Poking fun at me? :PP I rather think you know what I meant.

David Wallace

Oh, there's nothing worse than watching American actors trying to affect a British accent, and it kind of moves around from one part of England to another, then occasionally back to the good ol' US of A, when they forget.

Spare Oom

4:54 AM

@DavidWallace Yet there are some British actors who imitate American accents quite convincingly.

David Wallace

But a specific American accent? Like from a particular state? That would be harder.

It's quite hard for us non-Americans to detect any difference between one American accent and another. Except for the deep Southern drawl, of course.

Spare Oom

Just a general one like is fairly standard for the national news, I guess.

Shyam K

@DavidWallace That is true. No one is gonna distinguish by language(English) here.

Spare Oom

Yes, particular states would be harder.

Shyam K

@DavidWallace Well I learned English first, Hindi (after I met some Hindi speakers). I only learned my mother tongue Malayalam when I was in the 8th standard.. cos I came to India (Kerala to be more exact) and most spoke that here.

David Wallace

4:56 AM

I have friends who were only able to be understood in USA by affecting an accent.

@ShyamK That would make you an exceptional case.

Shyam K

@DavidWallace LOL

Spare Oom

I had a friend with whom I shared a CD of Beyond the Fringe who couldn't understand the accent and thus the jokes either.

Shyam K

the British accent on TV is apparently thicker and hence more ppl find it harder to understand it. I was watching Sherlock Holmes at some point with my mom, and she was constantly asking for translations as the accent was too thick

Spare Oom

@ShyamK Are there areas where English is predominantly spoken rather than Hindi?

@ShyamK Sherlock Holmes speaks with almost the clearest English I can think of. lol

If he was talking to some of the riffraff, then I guess that would be harder to understand.

Shyam K

@SpareOom he has a low voice.. guess that added to the problem..

Spare Oom

5:02 AM

I hadn't thought of that.

Shyam K

@SpareOom Depends on a lot of factors.. age.. education.. place... take Banglore for example, the teens and youth there tend to speak English more than Hindi.. but that depends on who they are with at the time..

@SpareOom it wouldn't affect the native English speakers as they are used to hearing ppl speak English in the different tones and pitches. Hence they would be more accustomed to that..

then again each region has its own 'dialect' (even among the native speakers).. saw some Youtube video with some bloke mimicking the different accents that he had heard..

Spare Oom

I've seen several videos with people mimicking accents. I can't tell whether they're on target or not (UK), and some even in the USA I wouldn't be able to tell if they're authentic.

My own accent is probably mixed up by now. I've lived in several areas where I could tell the locals spoke differently than I did, but then my folks noticed I was picking up their accents.

Shyam K

@SpareOom ya, totally depends on whether you've heard them yourself or not..

Spare Oom

Well, I've heard accents around the US, but it would take longer than I lived in any of those areas to be able to tell if someone was faking accurately or not.

I'd notice a huge difference, but not the small mistakes.

Shyam K

@SpareOom ya.. that happens alot as kids.. ur accent totally depends on where you have lived.. who you've lived with.. (whether you were let out of your room)..

Spare Oom

5:15 AM

lol Yeah, I wasn't let out far.

But my Dad claimed to have a non-local accent, though I couldn't tell since he's who I grew up listening to.

Shyam K

@SpareOom for me I would've picked up my mom's accent (was always a mamma's boy).. but I tended to love watching BBC.. so guess got some parts from there too... Dad was always at work.. reached home late..

Spare Oom

I'm sure I picked up a combination of Mom and Dad. I'd say early on I must have heard more from Mom while Dad was at work, but he read to us quite a lot.

I remember him reading us bedtime stories long after I would have been able to read them myself (at least in Junior High school, so about 13-15). It was just time to spend with him.

I'm going to try to sleep again. Good night.

Shyam K

@SpareOom good night

Meysam

8:06 AM

@Mahnax Hi

Mahnax

@Meysam Hello.

Meysam

Do you think all the following phrases are correct and equivalent?

list of places that are interesting to me
list of places that are of interest to me
list of places that interest me
list of places in which I am interested
list of places that I am interested in

Mahnax

They all sound fine, but it's late here and I'm tired, so I might not be the best person to ask.

David Wallace

8:37 AM

@Meysam Yes, they all mean the same thing.

Meysam

9:53 AM

How can I rephrase a sentence like this so that it sounds better: "This system includes ten A slots as well as eight B slots". I want to rephrase this sentence so that one of the "slots" is dropped. I am wondering if it is possible to remove the first "slots" to achieve this: "This system includes ten A as well as eight B slots". (A and B are type of slots)

ЯegDwight

Works for me.

Meysam

@DavidWallace Thanks

@ЯegDwight So dropping the first "slots" seems fine to you?

ЯegDwight

Yes. You can also try a different word order, e.g. "includes ten slots of type A and eight of type B".

Then the reader doesn't have to wait till the end of the sentence to understand what you're talking about.

Meysam

good advice!

ЯegDwight

It depends on what A and B really are. Might or might not work.

Robusto

9:57 AM

Kim (novel)

Kim is a picaresque novel by Rudyard Kipling. It was first published serially in McClure's Magazine from December 1900 to October 1901 as well as in Cassell's Magazine from January to November 1901, and first published in book form by Macmillan & Co. Ltd in October 1901. The story unfolds against the backdrop of The Great Game, the political conflict between Russia and Britain in Central Asia. It is set after the Second Afghan War which ended in 1881, but before the Third, probably in the period 1893–98. The novel is notable for its detailed portrait of the people, culture, and varied r...

@Meysam Nothing wrong with that.

You can also say "This system includes ten A and eight B slots."

It doesn't keep the reader waiting very long in suspense.

Meysam

@Robusto Is this fine too? "This system includes ten A slots and eight B ones."

ЯegDwight

In Russian, Kim is male by default. Calling a girl Kim is like calling her Tim.

Robusto

@Meysam It is weaker.

One definition of "great world power" ought to include "tried (and failed) to conquer Afghanistan."

What a worthless shithole it is anyway — a backward, benighted nation easily overrun but impossible to tame.

ЯegDwight

10:17 AM

I wonder what anybody would want there anyway. Nobody even steals the poppies or anything. Everybody just comes in for no reason whatsoever, sits on their asses, gets killed, and then pulls the fuck out. Rinse repeat for centuries on end. Morons, really.

Elsewhere it's at least oil for your blood.

Meysam

@ЯegDwight I don't think Afghanistan has any oil

ЯegDwight

My point exactly. Elsewhere they have. In Afghanistan they don't. So what's the point?

Meysam

Maybe if they could establish and hold military bases in Afghanistan, it would be easier to invade other Asian countries from there.

ЯegDwight

Not even Afghanistan could establish and hold military bases in Afghanistan.

At the end of the day it's always a shoot-out on a deserted mountain somewhere.

Meysam

lol

ЯegDwight

10:27 AM

What does it mean, i didn't get — Randeep Singh 9 mins ago

facedesk

I don't know what's worse, people not understanding what "please sum up or quote the crucial bits here", or people understanding it, commenting "thanks I will keep that in mind" and never doing anything.

Seriously, I recommend everyone to help out on SO for a day, doing janitorial work. It's a humbling experience. If you think we ever had an ungrammatical crap answer on ELU, you are just wrong. Our worst answer is stellar in every, absolutely every respect, compared to what you have to wade through on SO.

Meysam

@ЯegDwight People are getting more ignorant day by day

ЯegDwight

How can one get more ignorant than infinitely ignorant?

Meysam

@ЯegDwight Maybe there is no limit for being ignorant. As Einstein put it: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

ЯegDwight

Right. How did I not think of that one.

But see, it would appear (knocks on wood) that on ELU there is a limit. At least when compared to other places. So we must be doing something right, after all.

Meysam

It means, spell out the answer right here on this page. This is a question-and-answer site, not a link farm. — RegDwight 11 mins ago

His next question: "What is a link farm?"

user19161

10:43 AM

@Meysam A farm with links instead of animals. QED.

user19161

@Meysam That quote has been used over 9000 times!

ЯegDwight

11:00 AM

Looks like SO needs mods from Europe. They have like twenty mods, and yet spam stays up for hours. Inexcusable.

Shyam K

11:13 AM

Quick Question: what is the actual job of these mods? do they get paid or is it like a service they offer?

ЯegDwight

No pay. Regular people like you and I, just with superpowers.

Shyam K

so they like dedicate their lives to cleaning up spam and all other crappy stuff?.. cos I was wondering... Don't they like have to be online like most of the time to do that?

ЯegDwight

Well as I was just complaining, sometimes none of them is online.

Shyam K

@ЯegDwight Yes I know you were just complaining but that did get me curious :)

also how do you know if a person is a mod? is it like written on the room or site.. like maybe at the bottom or someplace where I tend not to look?

ЯegDwight

Mods have diamonds next to their names.

Bill the Lizard ♦, Charlotte, NC

90.3k 58 242 462

java c++ algorithm c c# language-agnostic books

Shyam K

11:20 AM

diamonds.. hmmm...

that is in their user profile right? how can I know it like ... lets say in chat... u gotta click their disp pic right? no other way right?

ЯegDwight

In chat, their names are blue.

Other users' names are black.

Shyam K

aah u are a mod? u got the bling bling next to your name... aah.. the name in blue.. didn't notice that slight color difference

ЯegDwight

I'm a mod here on ELU and on the German site. But not on Stack Overflow.

Shyam K

thanks for the heads up.. gotta be careful around you :D

ЯegDwight

Mwuahahaharhar.

Shyam K

11:25 AM

same rules apply for SO? color wise?

ЯegDwight

Yeah.

Shyam K

aah.. Thanks..

Beware of the names in blue... hehe

what all privis do you get?

is any of these things like written down anywhere? documented maybe?

I'd rather read than waste your time unless you don't mind :D

ЯegDwight

My close/delete votes are binding, i.e. they take effect immediately. I can suspend users, merge questions, handle flags, freeze chat rooms, move questions between sites, stuff like that.

A more comprehensive list is here:

29

A: Who are the diamond moderators, and what is their role?

What special privileges do diamond moderators have? Diamond moderators are human exception handlers. The main function of diamond moderators is to follow up on flagged posts but they also have some special abilities necessary to handle rare exceptional conditions: They have access to all the ...

Shyam K

diamond moderators? there are other kinds of moderators?

ЯegDwight

Nah, it's just a name. They are just called like that.

Only the developers themselves have more power than mods.

Shyam K

11:32 AM

that is obvious.. this is like the most awesome network of sites that I have seen.. the chat (just blows my mind.. pure awesomeness.. would love to be this good.. if possible better :D)

Robusto

@ЯegDwight We may find out on ELL if it ever gets going.

@ShyamK SE is littered with broken dreams just like that one.

ЯegDwight

Looks good, actually. 20 more questions. Was 26 last week.

And that's not counting the sabotaged question about i.e. vs. e.g.

Shyam K

@Robusto yep... wish that atleast I (little egocentric) can convert my dream into a reality :D

ЯegDwight

Oh great and now I got that spam flag rejected!

> declined - whils this is an incredibly crappy post that needs to be deleted it is either spam nor offensive. please do not use those flag types for it

It had a promotional link in it that wasn't related to the question, for crying out loud!

Perhaps someone edited it in the hours that it took them to handle the flag.

I can't check, don't have 10k on SO.

Robusto

@ЯegDwight Gimme a link, I'll check.

ЯegDwight

11:41 AM

Oh. Thanks. Hold on.

@Robusto stackoverflow.com/questions/3271498/…

It would appear they even destroyed the user.

Robusto

No edits on that post.

ЯegDwight

Mkay. So what does it say? I don't remember. I've been flagging for hours now.

I need another 5.5k.

Maybe I should start asking questions about C#.

Robusto

ЯegDwight

And that is not spam?

Robusto

It certainly looks like spam.

ЯegDwight

11:45 AM

I actually clicked on that link! It was a furniture selling site.

Robusto

Spam

Spam (its name a portmanteau of the words "Spiced" and "Ham") is a canned precooked meat product made by the Hormel Foods Corporation, first introduced in 1937. The labeled ingredients in the classic variety of Spam are chopped pork shoulder meat, with ham meat added, salt, water, modified potato starch as a binder, and sodium nitrite as a preservative. Spam's gelatinous glaze, or aspic, forms from the cooling of meat stock. The product has become part of many jokes and urban legends about mystery meat, which has made it part of pop culture and folklore. Through a Monty Python sketch, i...

Hmm, maybe not in the literal sense. The question is not a canned precooked meat product.

Perhaps that was the confusion.

ЯegDwight

I think I'll go bitch on Meta. I'm totally in the mood.

Robusto

Go for it. Don't forget the wiki link.

ЯegDwight

I'll start with it. And finish with it. In fact, I'll just leave it at the link.

Robusto

I think, fundermentally, the underlying meaning is the same.

ЯegDwight

11:50 AM

Days of Funder.

Bays of Funder.

Gays down under.

Nothing butt.

Nothing Hill.

Nothing Ham — which brings us back to spam.

Robusto

12:05 PM

0

Q: displaying website in popup with javascript on element hover

I am trying to have a dynamic popup window in an html page. the popup will appear when the user hovers a word. and in the popup window i want to call a webpage with the hovered word as parameter. It does not need to work on every word in the page. Only hover on the words i select will work like t...

javascript html popup

The kind of question that just begs not to be answered. "Here, please do my work for me because I don't know anything."

Meysam

12:19 PM

@ЯegDwight Can you unfreeze a frozen chat room too?

Shyam K

sure why not.. he just uses his Freeze Ray gun.. set it to defrost and viola!!

Meysam

@ShyamK So the general advice is that you look for blue names whenever you come here, and try to make friends with them.

Shyam K

@Meysam yep.. :D

I hope you don't mind my asking what does ur id mean? is it something like "Me Y. Sam" or "Me Sammy" ?

Meysam

@ShyamK I dont. It's just a name

pronounced like May + Sam

but I tend to write it like Meysam

Shyam K

every id (name too) has a specific meaning. sometimes obvious (depending on the languages that I know), sometimes not. But its a fun thing to try and figure out :)

@Meysam Oh.. I was not aware that such a name existed (well not in my region) does it have a meaning in your language? I'm presuming that your name is not in English (I suck at remembering names... unless they are unique)

Meysam

12:36 PM

Although it's an Arabic name, I somehow like it. In Arabic it's pronounced like "Me + Sam". But in Persian we pronounce it like "May Sam". I doubt that any Arab would choose this name for their children though because it is the name of one of the close friends of the first Shia Imams (Ali) and most Arabs are Sunni. Regarding its meaning, as far as I know, it means the sound of camel's hoof when running.

Shyam K

Arabic names are like so cool.. I love the Muslim type names... kinda wish I was born one.. I had loads of friends with cool names like Muhammed, Abdul, Abdullah, Ali, Rashid, Irfan, Ahmed (love the way the pronounce their names) .. they all sound super cool...

Meysam

What's your name mean?

Shyam K

so its like the sound of thunder.. horses running into battle -> sound of thunder kinda thing... nice..

shyam...

^ my name :)

its a hindu name..

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shyam

^ just read the first three..

Meysam

So you are a God! cool!

Shyam K

as per the name.. yeah!

hehe

but in my language(Malayalam) it also means darkness (not evil sort of darkness), black (in reference to dark clouds), and yes a God... :P

ЯegDwight

12:48 PM

0

Q: Random links promoting online furniture stores are not considered spam because...?

Saw this when it was still up: Clicked on the link to be sure. (Check ouf for yourself.) The user name was quite telling, too ("Jali Furniture" or some such; note how he's actually destroyed now). Flagged the hell out of it, for mod attention and as spam — something I do very rarely, when...