English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

I was wondering if there was any difference between "bitter" and "better" in pronunciation? My assumption is that one is pronounced with a soft "d" as in "better" and the other one with a hard "t" as in "bitter". What do you guys think?

Gah! words!

I thought we had killed that one for good.

Matt Эллен

I want to know the pronunciation of words

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Soft d? hard t?

monu

1:07 PM

@Matt I wonder how you could speak English despite being an Englishman.

user19161

I thought the spider was vitaly at first.

Matt Эллен

but then you realised that Vitaly was only a spider in chat, not in your flat?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Good morning Jasper. Incomprehensible as ever! Nice of you to stay on message.

KitFox

He's talking about me, sillies.

I changed my clothes just now.

Matt Эллен

@monu It startles many people. Where abouts in India are you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:09 PM

Dammit, you changed clothes while I wasn't looking?! I still had you as a cat

KitFox

I had to get the sparkles off.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Thanks!

Matt Эллен

OIC @Kit

user19161

@KitFox No flirting in this chat!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox so what's the deal with my pants?

KitFox

1:10 PM

It wasn't as bad as the crazy unicorn, but it was making me a little insane.

monu

@Matt very much.....

KitFox

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I thought you used to wear pants.

user19161

Maybe vitaly will change into a fox next to confuse us all.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Now that Kit has explained things and I refreshed my page it seems that you were being comprehensible. So... , er, good morning, Mr. Comprehensible Jasper?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox I am wearing pants as we speak.

KitFox

1:11 PM

Are they white and feathery? Because it looks like you are not wearing any to me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Speaking of pants, why can't a man just wear a dress without people thinking that's odd? Why don't they make nice manly dresses for men?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Jun 20 '11 at 15:00, by RegDwight

Wait, what? You are clothed?

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It's frustrating, isn't it.

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Don't they in China and Japan?

Matt Эллен

Although I've seen men in masculine skirts recently

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

1:12 PM

Arabs wear dresses.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Not that I want to wear a dress. But I'd like to have the option

Matt Эллен

Yeah

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm working from home now. I guess I could always start.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

KitFox

My goodness, you should just do it. You are such a bunch of girls.

monu

1:12 PM

@MrShinyandNew try in indian style

user19161

Are jeans considered pants as well? OALD defines jeans as a type of pants.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I don't want to wear a girly dress.

KitFox

What's so great about dresses anyway?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Yes, why wouldn't they?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Just try to call these dudes unmanly, I dare you.

KitFox

1:13 PM

You'd also probably prefer skirts.

Matt Эллен

probably

KitFox

Dresses aren't as versatile.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yeah, skirts, dresses, purses, whatever. Men should be allowed to wear them, to the same degree that women are allowed to wear pants.

KitFox

You are allowed to wear them to the same degree that women are allowed to wear pants.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Usually some dress codes will say wear pants and not jeans, suggesting that jeans are not pants, though it is logically correct nonetheless.

Matt Эллен

1:14 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 well, we are. they just don't make any for us

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Jeans are considered casual.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I dunno what kind of nazi country Canada is, but here in Germany men are allowed to wear whatever they please.

user19161

Don't the bagpipers wear skirts?

Matt Эллен

kilts

I doubt a Scotsman would like his kilt referred to as a skirt

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 So I guess the material matters in the degree of formality.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:15 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 And most people don't judge them? Don't assume that they're gay or otherwise unusual?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MattЭллен Well no true Scotsman anyway.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Of course it does.

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Well, you didn't mention that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I did mention that

user19161

@MattЭллен I wanted to say Irishman just now. Luckily my folly was not revealed, though now it is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:15 PM

that's the point of "to the degree that women are allowed"

KitFox

2 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yeah, skirts, dresses, purses, whatever. Men should be allowed to wear them, to the same degree that women are allowed to wear pants.

Nuh-uh.

No mention of "without ridicule."

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy I think the Irish wear kilts too

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@MrShinyandNew安宇 most people judge anyone anywhere for whatever reason. Don't need to be wearing a skirt for that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

i.e. women can wear pants anywhere, any time, etc, and it's completely normal and acceptable. Men cannot do the same with dresses.

Matt Эллен

5 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Speaking of pants, why can't a man just wear a dress without people thinking that's odd? Why don't they make nice manly dresses for men?

KitFox

1:17 PM

Well, if you started wearing dresses or skirts or whatever, pretty soon it would not be so odd.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I'm more of a trend-follower rather than trend-setter.

KitFox

But of course when you have never done it before and suddenly start, it is by definition odd.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

►

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Well, that's too bad. You could probably make a mint off of a wrongful termination lawsuit.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox No, I work for a sole proprietorship. I make my mint by working here.

Matt Эллен

1:19 PM

think of how many dresses you could buy then!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

As I said. I don't really want to wear dresses. But it bugs me that if I did want to, people would find it strange.

s/dresses/skirts/g if you want

KitFox

Well, it is strange.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 encourage some of your more out going friends to start wearing dresses

KitFox

And it will continue being strange until men start wearing dresses and-or skirts.

user19161

@MattЭллен outgoing

Matt Эллен

1:21 PM

I'd have to go with ankle length skirts though. I'm not shaving my legs

user19161

@MattЭллен You can show off your leg hair.

Matt Эллен

oh! Or knee length socks

KitFox

Manly leg hair.

Or you could wear leggings under your skirts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, when I wear shorts I don't shave my legs. So why would I if I wore a skirt.

user19161

@MattЭллен The hair may stick out from those socks.

KitFox

1:22 PM

I do that to keep my legs warm.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 good point

user19161

I knew a person who said he kept long hair to keep his ears warm.

user19161

He's called Marcel and I called him Marcello for fun.

user19161

I like to give people Italian names.

Matt Эллен

I like to give people my name. It's easier to remember that way

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:24 PM

@JasperLoy I don't know why but the notion of you out in the world, calling people by Italian names, makes me giggle.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I like to roll the r so much that I frequently do it for fun in English too.

KitFox

@MattЭллен What if I don't want your name? I prefer my own. No offense.

user19161

@KitFox There is not much difference. Both end with /t/.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox luckily for you, there is tab complete in chat

user19161

@MattЭллен luckily

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

1:27 PM

@MattЭллен I never had any problems remembering my name without giving it to other people.

Matt Эллен

touché

KitFox

I am simultaneously aroused and annoyed by the fact that I can smell this woman's perfume from 20 feet away.

Matt Эллен

Is it sweet?

KitFox

It's uh. Vaguely like scented toilet paper.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Yo @Kit we could use an additional gun.

KitFox

1:35 PM

Where?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

WMT

KitFox

Oh, there's only one.

And against an enemy that I hate.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You can do it on Fight.

KitFox

No, apparently I can't.

How embarrassing.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I'm on Surge with Gorelesup. Looking good.

Robusto

1:44 PM

@MattЭллен WOTANS: Weird Oblongs That Are Not Square

Matt Эллен

I hear there's a clan of them

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Wotans the Barbars.

Robusto

Loge her!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Loge?

Are you blackmailing people in front of a theatre?

Robusto

Haven't you ever listened to Der Ring des Nibelungen?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

1:47 PM

God no! Why would I?

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Why wouldn't you? Everyone has to do it at least once. It's the law.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I'm with the 6bn people who have never so much as heard the name Wagner.

Matt Эллен

Wagner in Britain's got Talent

lots of people have heard him

thankfully I'm not one of them

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Sorry, my bad. It's "Loge, hör!"

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto So you are blackmailing people inside a theatre. I see.

Robusto

1:51 PM

Well, it could have been "Loge her," as in hey, Loge, get yer ass over here.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Nah.

Robusto

Uh-huh.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

No.

That can only mean, all your loge are belong to me.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Wevs. You don't listen to Wagner, so it doesn't matter anyway.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

My life is too short to read phone books or listen to them.

Robusto

1:52 PM

And btw, you don't get the Wotan/Loge connection?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Wotan is the guy who named Wednesday.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Thankfully you have found other ways to waste your life that are just as profitable.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Loge is an airport in Boston.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 You mean Lotan?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

No, I mean Gertrud.

Sieglinde, even.

Robusto

1:55 PM

You mean coitus.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I never not.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 All right, stop Wikipedaing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hey question for you guys that know German. What's the diff between V and W in german?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto I never started?

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 A shitty car! Zinnng!

Mitch

1:55 PM

Poe wrote on both.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

How's VW shitty?

Mitch

oh..that's why they're the -same-.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 For the purposes of that joke, let's assume it is.

Mitch

V is f and W is v, that's the diff.

Matt Эллен

so what's f?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

1:56 PM

They build Lamborghinis and Bentleys.

They also kind of make Porsches now.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I didn't say Lamborghins and Bentleys were shitty. Also, they don't carry the VW badge. QED.

Mitch

@MrShinyandNew安宇 as matt would say, can you say why don't you understand the difference?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Mitch so you're saying German women have faginas? I assure you that's not the case.

Mitch

f = unvoiced labiodental fricative

genau

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Too bad they also "kind of" make VWs.

KitFox

1:57 PM

tries to imagine labiodental fagina

Mitch

the german women?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto they build all their, what, ten, eleven? cars out of the same components. And then slap different logos on the final product.

KitFox

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I am getting creamed with Gorelesup.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

And anyway, VW is probably their most reliable brand.

Robusto

Are you really going to fall on your sword for VW? Well, all right then. We'll send your corpse down the Rhine on a flaming boat and weep genuine-seeming tears.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

1:59 PM

A Bentley will fall apart faster than a VW.

Robusto

Citation?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

World.

Look around how many 50-year old Bentleys you see.

But I'd rather listen to Wagner than do PR for VW.

KitFox

I hate this war, I hate this game. pouts

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Wow, 6 losses and 1 win.

Robusto

@KitFox Thankfully, I suffered my humiliation before going to work.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:02 PM

My bad. When I said we needed a gun, I forgot to mention whose direction you should be firing in.

KitFox

Two wins. Two. And on fight FFS.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well you also got a win on passive.

KitFox

No I didn't.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

15 more of those and you will be fine.

KitFox

Oh.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:03 PM

@KitFox You did.

KitFox

I see.

Robusto

Why haven't LuoHanSen passed us yet? This is getting tiresome.

KitFox

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌!

Matt Эллен

y'aight @Kit?

KitFox

No. This is not a good day.

Robusto

2:07 PM

Monday. Pretty much says it all.

KitFox

Also, boys in daycare.

Also, husband started job.

Also, husband wants me to bring both boys to the doctor today.

And project lead is jerking me around again.

And I am hungry and without a hot dog.

And WMT is pissing me off.

Robusto

amazon.com/Alexander-Terrible-Horrible-Good-Very/dp/0689711735

Maybe things would be better in Australia.

Note: "... he woke up with gum in this hair."

Yes.

Not that hair.

Like that.

2:09 PM

hugs @Kit.

KitFox

thanks

And it is cold and rainy.

Matt Эллен

I'm hoping for no hail on my cycle home

KitFox

I think it is the weather that is bothering me.

Robusto

> I went to sleep with gum in my mouth and now there's gum in my hair and when I got out of bed this morning I tripped on the skateboard and by mistake I dropped my sweater in the sink while the water was running and I could tell it was going to be a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

And was it?

Robusto

2:11 PM

According to Judith Viorst it was.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Ah thank you. I don't wanna read a whole book.

KitFox

> We all have days like this, but this little boy has the worst attitude throughout the story. It shows kids exactly how not to behave. So, if you do read this to your children, make sure to point that out. Personally, I prefer books that show good moral character.

Robusto

Well, spoiler alert, I really don't care about your laziness.

Matt Эллен

past performance is no guarantee of future performance

Robusto

@KitFox Sounds like a bitch. My boys loved it.

KitFox

2:12 PM

I agree.

"good moral character" = "pretend everything is fine"

Robusto

It works wonders on pouts and sulks.

KitFox

> I don't really understand why anyone would want to share this doom and gloom lousy alexander attitude with their child. Teach children how to get through bad feelings in a positive way. Life gives you lemons, make lemonade! People are programed to feel bad, inadequate, depressed, etc. This is how we are sold things we can't afford, and don't really need. We should reprogram our next generation to have a choice in how they feel, to be happy despite life's hurdles.

> Happiness is a choice after all. This book says the exact opposite "unhappiness is a valid choice in the face of adversity, and that is perfectly o.k.". A sad sad message. I threw our copy in the trash after my husband and I both agreed it was the most negative book we have ever read.

Robusto

Favorite line: "But the crullers and the grapes were gone."

KitFox

People are really dumb.

Robusto

@KitFox Get off of everybody's lawn! Now! This instant! I mean it! Don't make me come out there! I'll turn this car around!

KitFox

2:14 PM

I can't believe that parents object to teaching children that unhappiness is a valid choice.

Robusto

> Life gives you lemons, make lemonade!

KitFox

But I guess I was programed to feel bad things, so there must be something wrong with me.

Robusto

Sing that on the cross, Brian!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Matt Эллен

@KitFox probably a scientologist

not you, the reviewer

KitFox

Maybe I can be reprogramed to choose to feel happiness, even when life really sucks.

Like when people die, I will just choose to be happy that they are gone.

Matt Эллен

2:15 PM

they're not allowed to scream during child birth as that will leave an imprint of the scream on the child's mind

KitFox

Uh-oh.

Does yelling really loudly have the same effect?

Matt Эллен

oh yeah

but it's ok. there is a programme you can buy into that teaches you how to cleanse your mind

KitFox

Thank goodness.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto so if life gives you suicidal thoughts, you should become a psychiatrist?

Mitch

like to start fires? become a fireman?

Robusto

2:18 PM

@MattЭллен Are the suicidal thoughts lemon-flavored?

Matt Эллен

uh... yes

KitFox

Personally, I plan to go home and teach my children that life sucks sometimes, and when life is sucking, we call that feeling grumpy. Or pissed off if we are old enough to use those words.

I will not teach my children that feeling miserable is a choice, nor that they should pretend to be happy.

Plus, I shall feel superior to all those crappy parents who wrote stupid reviews.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox Well, throwing a book in the trash really says it all. Where they throw books in the trash, they will ultimately throw people in the trash also.

KitFox

> Kids have enough trouble these days - why would you go out of your way to teach them to murmur and complain? Or encourage them to do so? It's really quite ridiculous.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Now I want to read the book.

KitFox

2:21 PM

These are probably the same parents who complain about what "school" is teaching their children.

Because, naturally, they don't have any control over their children's behavior or learning.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yeah! communicating is a terrible way to be understood.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox well all they can do is throw away their children's books.

KitFox

@MattЭллен And empathizing with other kids is just a stupid skill.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

That's admittedly very little control.

KitFox

Right, true.

> When I read this book for the first time I kept waiting for the positive spin that helps kids to overcome life's struggles. I was very disappointed when I didn't get that.

Because you couldn't think to use it as a tool to have a discussion about exactly that?

You idiotic woman.

Robusto

2:24 PM

> Great book for kids! They can really identify with Alexander! Our library club even read the book and discussed with the kids, it was great. The kids discussed what Alexander could've done to make his day better and his role in his terrible day.

From the non-brain-damaged readers.

KitFox

"I couldn't possibly actually talk to my daughter about these things. It has to be written in a book somewhere."

"And then I can complain because it isn't in line with my values."

shakes it off

Sometimes I just like to complain and feel yucky.

I didn't realize that was bad programing.

Now I feel inadequate.

Oh noes!! I was programed for that too.

Robusto

@KitFox Have you thought about moving to Australia?

Matt Эллен

yeah, it's all in the programming

KitFox

So here's the question though. Is "programed" the same as "programmed" or does it mean something completely different?

Matt Эллен

on the other hand, feeling inadequate is better than being inadequate

KitFox

2:29 PM

@Robusto Oh hell, no.

Robusto

@MattЭллен On the other hand, I wish more people who are inadequate would feel that way.

Matt Эллен

I never will, you can't make me

KitFox

whips out large phallus and sets it on table

Oh really?

Matt Эллен

Have you seen the Burj Kalifa? If that's not just the biggest phallus. I didn't feel inadequate inside of that

KitFox

Well, trust me. My equipment would make you feel inadequate.

Matt Эллен

2:35 PM

Or aroused

KitFox

Right. Aroused.

That's what I meant.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I was under the impression that they were both more like English V

Hello everyone.

hi @Mahnax

How are you all?

2:40 PM

hopeful. How are you?

Mahnax

Ehh, I'm okay. Internet at home is down. Hopeful for what?

Matt Эллен

That the weather will be good for my cycle home

No internet at home?! Isn't that against the Geneva Convention?

Mahnax

I don't know, but it's not good.

Anyways, French. Bye!

Matt Эллен

cya!

Robusto

9

Q: What did Steve Jobs mean by “Technology married with Liberal Arts” in his last speech?

The Asahi, Japan’s leading newspaper quoted the following famous closing words of Steve Jobs’ in his last speech at the iPad 2 event in March 2011 in its popular editorial column, “Vox populi, vox Dei” on its April 22 issue. It deplored in the column that today’s Japanese management lacks great v...

meaning-in-context connotation cultural-phrases

You can always spot a Yoichi question.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:47 PM

You can always spot Robusto pointing that out.

KitFox

Anybody know anything about sorted dictionaries?

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 And you can always spot RegDwight pointing that out.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto And you... you.... you... GRRRRRRRRR

Robusto

RegDwight is the remora on the Robusto shark.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox a bit. I might could help

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:50 PM

@Robusto without the remora, all that would be left of the shark would be the snark.

3

KitFox

@MattЭллен I was thinking that I could use a sorted dictionary to store the sort order of some columns. Right now, it reads them in order from left to right.

But you know what? I am hungry, and I should go eat. Then maybe I won't need help at all.

Matt Эллен

have some good eats

KitFox

I think today is a good day for a meatball sub. Or maybe a hot dog and fries.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I'm hungry as well but I have to sit through this pit full of bore for another eternity or five.

Matt Эллен

throws @Reg a cookie

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:56 PM

Good edit.