English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

9:03 PM

@Jez I thought it followed the previous line?

Then the prize seemed the logical feminine noun for "sie" to refer to.

user19161

I have begun to recognize @mitch's silvery avatar.

Cerberus

If there are sentences in between, you need to rely on context.

user19161

@MattЭллен The first two characters sound like "cream". I am not sure which way the translation goes. If I were to translate it from Chinese to English, it would be "Ke Lin Family Style Italian Restaurant".

Matt Эллен

maybe "Ke Lin's Italian Restaurant"?

the family bit is probably assumed by most English Speakers

user19161

Actually ke lin sounds more like clean than cream!

Matt Эллен

9:09 PM

:D

user19161

So the restaurant is clean. Phew!

Cerberus

> a major label A&R guy

What is A&R?

It should be about record labels.

Matt Эллен

A&R is about record labels

Artists and repertoire

Artists and repertoire (A&R) is the division of a record label that is responsible for talent scouting and overseeing the artistic development of recording artists. It also acts as a liaison between artists and the record label; every activity involving artists to the point of album release is generally considered under the purview of, and responsibility of, A&R. Responsibilities Finding talent The A&R division is responsible for discovering new recording artists and bringing them to the record company. They are expected to understand the current tastes of the market and to be able to fi...

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ahh thanks!

Matt Эллен

no worries!

Cerberus

9:13 PM

I am enlightened.

Matt Эллен

The A&R man is the guy who goes to gigs to find new acts

Cerberus

And tries to cajole artists into contracts.

Makes sense.

Matt Эллен

exactly :)

Cerberus

I am reading about what percentage artists make from the total sales of their albums.

user19161

@Cerberus I know about a pornstar who is used to make athletes sign contracts.

Cerberus

9:15 PM

You may have read figures that seemed ridiculous, but they're true.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus what are they?

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Hahah, sure, why not.

@MattЭллен That a record label can make a net profit of € 6 million on two albums while the artist gets absolutely zero.

Matt Эллен

:O

Cerberus

Well, he got maybe € 50k to buy groceries and the rent from during the first year, when he was making the albums.

Matt Эллен

grrrr shakes fist at labels

Cerberus

9:16 PM

Yup.

user19161

Hey guys, my trigonometric sentence got at least 5 stars in each of 3 rooms. Amazing!

Cerberus

Congrats.

Matt Эллен

well done!

Cerberus

techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml

But the point is that the record label advanced maybe a million to the band to create the albums, and the band has to pay that back out of their € 23.40.

And whatever the label spends on tours also gets deducted from the € 23.40.

So the first couple of years, a platinum-selling artist may make € 0.

Matt Эллен

that sucks

Cerberus

9:19 PM

Even though the label makes a net profit of millions and millions.

user19161

Maybe same thing for publishers and authors.

user19161

I will use artist instead of artiste from now.

Cerberus

So the percentages that you hear are not the real percentages of what artists actually get, because they are indebted for a million or more first—and that million is calculated by the label, of course.

@JasperLoy Hmm to some extent, but production costs are much lower for books.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy journal publishers don't pay the submitters, unless they've commissioned them

Cerberus

So a writer may get 20 % or so (just a guess) off his first book.

Of course the publisher gets the rest.

@MattЭллен Right, scientific journals.

Matt Эллен

9:21 PM

@Cerberus yeah, or humanities

user19161

I am waiting for cerberus's philosophy book and matt's psychology book available in all good bookstores.

Cerberus

Yup. Academic, then.

Matt Эллен

in fact, some journal requires payment for submissions

Cerberus

Yeah.

@JasperLoy Your books first.

user19161

Hello @brandon.

Cerberus

9:23 PM

> The really, really, really simplified version is that Hollywood sets up a separate corporation for each movie with the intent that this corporation will take on losses. The studio then charges the "film corporation" a huge fee (which creates a large part of the "expense" that leads to the loss). The end result is that the studio still rakes in the cash, but for accounting purposes the film is a money "loser" -- which matters quite a bit for anyone who is supposed to get a cut of any profits.

I.e. the artists.

> Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, under "Hollywood accounting," ended up with a $167 million "loss," despite taking in $938 million in revenue. This isn't new or surprising, but it's getting attention because the income statement for the movie was leaked online, showing just how Warner Bros. pulled off the accounting trick:

user19161

Wow, Reg got so many stars in the past few hours.

Jez

@Cerberus OK, next one: "Ich würde besser aufhören, das ist besser für die Nerven..."

Cerberus

@Jez I had better stop; that's better for the [our?/your?/my?] nerves.

techdirt.com/articles/20100708/02510310122.shtml ^

Jez

well, whose nerves? :-)

Cerberus

No idea.

Fill in whatever suits the context.

Jez

9:30 PM

How about "Schlecht, wenn man so kurz vor dem Aus steht, oder?"

Cerberus

It's bad, when one is so close to the finish/end, isn't it?

Or "is standing".

And change the commas as you see fit.

Jez

hmm

is that "one" referring to the speaker or the addressee?

Cerberus

No way to tell.

You could just use "you" in the indefinite sense.

Jez

meh

this is nonsensical in the original German

I can't really tell whether that's "end" as in "you're about to lose" or "I'm about to win"

Matt Эллен

good night

Cerberus

9:36 PM

@MattЭллен Night, froggie!

Jez

i guess it could be something like "It sucks when you're about to lose, doesn't it?"

but it might not mean that...

Cerberus

Could be.

Or "it sucks when you're about to win".

In Dutch, "aus/uit" would normally be negative.

Out of the game, you're out.

Jez

ah

so that leans towards 'lose'

Cerberus

But I'm not sure about German.

A story can also be "uit/aus", meaning it is finished.

Like a book or film.

Jez

hmm, google has "Bad if you are standing so close to the ropes, right?"

where would it get 'the ropes' from? maybe 'dem Aus' is slang for 'the ropes'

Cerberus

9:43 PM

Odd.

dict.tu-chemnitz.de/…

Do you use this dictionary?

Best one I know.

It says Aus can also be an exit.

I have it bookmarked

Ah OK.

ausgang is exit

It also gives Aus.

> Mein Freund und ich leben quasi nur noch in einer WG. Sonst läuft da gar nichts mehr. Aber ich hab mit meinem Verhalten schon sehr viel kaputt gemacht :stirn Meine Beziehung steht quasi auch kurz vor dem Aus. Deswegen hab ich die Notbremse gezogen. Ich gebe ihm Zeit und halte es quasi aus.

Jez

I'll compromise on "you're" and "end" instead of "one" and "finish"

Cerberus

9:46 PM

So "kurz vor dem Aus" appears to mean "about to end / break down".

It's always a good idea to Google for expressions and see if they provide helpful context.

Jez

next is:

> Hallo Verlierer.

> Mich wundert, das sich dein Computer noch nicht aufgehängt hat.

Cerberus

I'm surprised that your computer hasn't hung yet.

Jez

> Er sollte inzwischen gemerkt haben, daß ein Versager vor ihm sitzt...

Cerberus

By now he should have noticed that there is a loser sitting in front of him.

Jez

surely it's "it"

Cerberus

9:50 PM

It? Where?

If "er" refers to a male noun like a monster, then, yes, it would be "it".

Jez

a loser sitting in front of it

(the computer)

Cerberus

Oh, yes, if "er" and "ihm" refer to Computer, then, yes.

Jez

is it like french insofaras Computer is a masculine noun?

Cerberus

Yes.

Computer {m}

This means it is a masculine noun.

Jez

it's funny, the Egyptian at my workplace keeps calling things "he" and "she"

can't seem to stop himself

Cerberus

9:53 PM

Hehe.

Yeah, I believe Arabic doesn't use he and she the way we do.

Moroccans here call people by the wrong sex too.

Jez

what do you mean?

eh?

Cerberus

Well, rarely, but it happens.

They would refer to a man by "she".

I don't know exactly when and to whom this happens.

Jez

oh.

if you start a letter with "He Du..." that's insulting, right?

Cerberus

If you're not addressing a young friend, it would be very informal. Could be teasing in a game, like "hey, you!".

Jez

yeah

> Eine Frage, wie ist das, wenn man kein Geld mehr hat?

"how does it feel to have no money"?

Cerberus

9:56 PM

Hmm "wie ist das" is a bit vague. Could be what you say, or perhaps "what happens if"?

Not sure.

Google "wie ist das, wenn" and see what you find.

Jez

what's it like?

Cerberus

Could be.

Jez

erm, what i find it in german

so i still dont understand it

Cerberus

If it is the start of a letter, and the letter is just mocking you, then yes.

"Hey, you, a question: what's it like, being broke?"

Jez

ok

> Wußtest du, daß Computerspielen verblöden soll? Bei Dir scheint mir dies zuzutreffen, so wie Du spielst...

Cerberus

10:06 PM

@Jez Did you know that computer games supposedly make you stupid/gaga? You seem to be a case in point, what with the way you play...

Jez

hmmm

so it doesnt mean "computer games are being dumbed down"?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Cerberus soll doesn't mean "should" there. It means "supposedly". That one is tricky.

I overheard that being the worst gets you an award.

On this cheerful note, I'm calling it a day.

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I meant in like that.

Jez

yes but what is it applying to?

the computer games or "you"?

Cerberus

"Should" as in "this should do it".

Jez

10:16 PM

verblöden: "become a cabbage"

Cerberus

But I agree that "supposedly" is a good translation—in fact, I did that in the other line with soll.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well in English it reads as if you insist that he get an award even though he does not.

Cerberus

9 mins ago, by Cerberus

@Jez Did you know that computer games supposedly make you stupid/gaga? You seem to be a case in point, what with the way you play...

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Anyway, night all!

Cerberus

@Jez "Computer games" is my free translation: it is literally "playing on the computer".

So playing them ("-spielen") dumbs you down.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Night!

Jez

10:18 PM

daß (that) Computerspielen (computer game playing) verblöden (makes you a cabbage) soll (supposedly)

is that right?

Cerberus

Yes.

But the "playing" is a bit redundant in English, so I left it out.

Jez

it's not that redundant

I would say "playing computer games..."

their mere existence doesn't do it...

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Actually I'm not so sure: "I read that there should be a reward" reads much like "I read that there is a reward, supposedly".

But it doesn't matter.

@Jez But that is obvious.

How else could they dumb you down?

When someone says "Hollywood movies dumb you down", you can be 100 % sure that it is the watching that dumbs you down, so you might as well leave it out. Then again, there's nothing wrong with adding it if you like it better that way.

Jez

well i have "Did you know that playing computer games apparently makes you dumb? The way you play, it seems to show..."

I like to use "apparently" in place of "supposedly" sometimes, maybe it's a British thing

next one is:

> Was ich noch fragen wollte...

> Gibts jemanden, der gegen Dich nicht gewinnt?

Cerberus

Apparently sounds fine.

What I also wanted to ask...is there anyone who doesn't win against you?

I wonder why they capitalize Dich, by the way.

Jez

10:26 PM

ok, that's more like

I've been meaning to ask... Is there anyone that can't beat you?

Cerberus

Yeah.

Jez

lol for this "Hallo. Bitte verschicken Sie diesen Brief für mich."

why does Google say "please send this letter TO me"?

Cerberus

Odd.

Should be "for".

Jez

@Cerberus how about this. you ask your boss, "what's up?"

he says: "Gut... Wie jeden Tag. Es ging, bis ich mir die Statistiken angesehen habe."

what's that about?

Cerberus

How's it going? Good...like every day. It was all right, until I took a look at those statistics.

►

Giorgiomastrò

10:40 PM

Hi dudes

Cerberus

A funny rap about Facebook.

Pretty catchy.

Hey!

Sei Italiano?

Giorgiomastrò

Sì! :)

Cerberus

Molto buono.

Giorgiomastrò

Parli un po' d'italiano?

Where are you from?

Cerberus

Parliamo tutte le langue qui.

I speak just a poco.

Holland here.

Giorgiomastrò

10:42 PM

Nice... it would be great to have a Q&A for the Italian language as well.

Jez

"We talk all the languishing here."

haha

Cerberus

@Giorgiomastrò Hmm is there a proposal already on Area51?

@Jez Haha, automated translation always sucks.

Jez

138

Italian Language & Usage

Proposed Q&A site for students, teachers, and linguists wanting to discuss the finer points of the Italian language.

Currently in commitment.

Cerberus

Hey @Jez, what can "are you taking a piss?" mean?

Giorgiomastrò

Oh, great... sorry, but I'm new here and didn't know about that.

Jez

10:43 PM

@Cerberus except that it's right; it's "le lingue" :-)

Cerberus

In the context of the video I posted.

@Giorgiomastrò No need to apologise!

@Jez Oh hehe, I see!

Jez

ah, Dan Bull, he's done some quite good raps

Cerberus

Oh, you know him? Cool.

> If only there was an application that let me smash your face in.

Giorgiomastrò

Feeling drowsy, dudes... I think I'll call it a day.

Cerberus

Actually the estuary accent (if that's what it is) is quite suitable for rap.

@Giorgiomastrò Buona notte!

Giorgiomastrò

10:46 PM

Goodnight

A te :)

Cerberus

Grazie!

Jez

@Cerberus he doesn't say that, he says "are you taking the piss?"

as in, are you joking?

Cerberus

Oh, oops.

Ah, yes.

That makes sense.

Sounds very Bri'ish.

Jez

indeed, he is

Cerberus

Who knew, I even like an English accent better in rap.

Jez

10:52 PM

"Who'd have known"

"Who knew" is a peculiar Americanism

Cerberus

Heh yeah.

It was meant to be...slangy without any special connotation. Or actually I wasn't really thinking.

Jez

Not all British use the glottal stop in 'British' by the way

some even speak other accents extremely convincingly:

►

Cerberus

11:16 PM

@Jez I knao.

And I have posted that video here several times!

user19161

@Cerberus And I have never bothered to click on it!

Cerberus

Why are you telling me this?

Jez

heh. apparently these days they're calling free speech zones "First Amendment Rights Areas"

I prefer 'freedom cage' though

user19161

-1

Q: Plural of 'hereafter'

On Wikityonary we read that 'hereafter' has as plural 'hereafters', but OALD says that this plural form doesn't exist. What is wrong: Wikityonary or OALD?

grammatical-number

user19161

NARQ

Cerberus

11:18 PM

Zones?

user19161

Hello @aedia!

aedia λ

Until right this moment, I had no idea turbid and turgid weren't both the same word (meaning turgid).

Stupid vocabulary test.

user19161

@aediaλ Neither are mobile and motile.

aedia λ

I'm anything from G, H, I but no J for me yet pouts

@JasperLoy Yeah, but for some reason I know those!

user19161

I didn't even take the test!

Cerberus

11:21 PM

@aediaλ Don't worry, those levels aren't really reliable.

user19161

And today I learnt that trapezium and trapezoid mean opposite things in BrE and AmE. Fascinating.

Cerberus

And hi!

@JasperLoy How do you mean?

I know only one meaning of each.

user19161

4

Q: Trapezium/Trapezoid - why are the US/UK definitions swapped around?

These are the US definitions... Trapezoid - a 4-sided flat shape with straight sides that has a pair of opposite sides parallel. Trapezium - a 4-sided flat shape with straight sides and NO parallel sides. The meanings of the two words are exactly reversed between the US and British interpretat...

meaning etymology american-english british-english

Cerberus

@JasperLoy That sounds like an error.

aedia λ

@Cerberus I know, but I keep feeling compelled to retake it, and in the process discover there are apparently lots of words I thought I knew that I don't.

Cerberus

11:23 PM

The Americans got it wrong. The rest of the world uses trapezium for two sides parallel.

user19161

@Cerberus Indeed, the way the words are used today arose from an error as you can read from the excellent answer.

Cerberus

Ah, and I see the best answer agrees: it was in fact an error!

user19161

@Cerberus Do you usually use how instead of what there?

Cerberus

@aediaλ Hehe, I understand.

user19161

@Cerberus An error repeated a million times becomes truth.

Cerberus

11:24 PM

@JasperLoy Slightly different meaning.

@JasperLoy Not quite.

user19161

@Cerberus Yes, I know.

Jez

@JasperLoy No it doesn't.

user19161

@Jez Well, you know what I mean...

Cerberus

/__\ This is a trapezium.

Jez

@JasperLoy It's more to-the-point to say "humans in large groups are idiots"

user19161

11:25 PM

If you check OALD for example you will see that the definitions of trapezium and trapezoid are indeed reversed.

Cerberus

Most people can't spell "they're" and "their". What is it to me? frustrated

user19161

Also I really like Ron Maimon's questions. I think he is a genius.

Cerberus

You're serious?

user19161

And I say that at the risk of people throwing rotten eggs at me.

user19161

I am not afraid to voice my opinions honestly.

Cerberus

11:27 PM

My opinion is perpendicular to yours.

user19161

@Cerberus Yes. I usually don't make jokes of this nature, as you know! I am bad at jokes...

user19161

@Cerberus Not parallel?

user19161

But I really dislike Kris's answers too. For one he keeps saying "editing some more in" or something like that. He should just post it and edit it or post the detailed version later without saying that at all.

user19161

I still feel Kris is Thursagen sometimes. Maybe it is his brother or something.

user19161

-1

Q: is this right "when I was 5 I would eat 5 times, now I only eat 3 times"?

I had an argument with a friend today that this is not correct.. but couldn't prove it.. your advice please, hopefully with the grammatical reference. Thanks in advance

grammar

user19161

11:30 PM

OT

Cerberus

Every time I finish the test, it seems my score gets lower.

user19161

@Cerberus Because you are getting tired.

Cerberus

From J to G to F. And that F was only two errors, and overall very fast. Certainly better than my J scores in the beginning.

What the hell is going on?

user19161

-1

A: Difference between "asleep" and "sleeping"

Visitor: Is my friend awake? Friend's son: No, he's sleeping. Friend's grammarian wife: Nevermind the stupid kid, your friend is asleep. Visitor: Tell him he should come see me when he's neither sleeping nor asleep.

user19161

What is Kris doing?

Vitaly

11:41 PM

@Cerberus I've been told that the test adapts to your previous performance and that it usually takes a few tests to determine your true level.

No idea if that is true.

aedia λ

I dropped to an A or a B or something once when I made a few errors in a row in the beginning, but I'm more like an H consistently now.

user19161

@aediaλ +1 for saying "an H" instead of "a H". :-)

Cerberus

@Vitaly And yet I get lower and lower scores while my error rate improves?

aedia λ

Stupid friezes and siroccos.

Cerberus

I was very fast too.

Vitaly

11:42 PM

@Cerberus Well, maybe you made mistakes with the easier words? I dunno.

Cerberus

I do ragequit a lot. I've only completed the test four times or so. Perhaps that's it?

aedia λ

I either know it right away (and maybe get it wrong anyway because I don't like their answer... like frieze I'm sure now was meant to be the band and not the picture, pfft) or I don't know the word and my guess is semi-random.

Which is only good if it's a nice word like boreal = northern and not some crazy sirocco wind no one has ever heard of.

user19161

0

Q: Meaning of Did vs. Would

Do both of the sentences have the same meaning? Did he eat something? Would he eat something? I've heard 'would' can also be used to say things that happened in past. is the sentence correct and same as first?

grammar tense

user19161

GR

Cerberus

@aediaλ Hmm sirocco is a hard word!

aedia λ

11:46 PM

It's also driving me nuts that the title of the test page has "Challange" spelt like that.

like, the browser title thingie

everywhere else is right I think

user19161

@aediaλ This shows the site is not to be taken seriously. Please don't go nuts over such a matter!

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I did not eat @cerberus!

Cerberus

@aediaλ Haha OMG I hadn't even noticed.

That goes to show.

I got all kinds of bullshit questions here.

An "INEXORABLE fate". I picked "inevitable": WRONG!

aedia λ

I JUST got that!

Cerberus

Haha.

What did you pick?

aedia λ

11:51 PM

I don't know the answer because I got it wrong too.

The same.

Cerberus

You think you picked inevitable too?

aedia λ

I know I did.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Vitaly

I think I picked unyielding. Was that an option?

aedia λ

I dunno what they wanted.

Cerberus

11:52 PM

Yes, unyielding was there too.

Vitaly

Then that's the answer.

Cerberus

When I saw unyielding I was going to pick that; then, when I saw inevitable, I considered that slightly better, so I changed my mind.

It often goes that way.

aedia λ

Also, I've gotten heresies wrong twice now. I keep clicking lies but there is apparently a better synonym in the group.

Cerberus

Heh.

aedia λ

I hardly ever change my mind on these (yes, I know that's silly, but I can't wait to be done with the test since it doesn't mean anything and I can do it again).

Cerberus

11:54 PM

Sometimes the quiz picks the root meaning, sometimes it picks a derived meaning (I mean in cases where both are possible in context).

It should always pick the root meaning if it fits in context. But I suspect that the makers often don't fully appreciate the meaning of the word: they just looked it up in a dictionary.

aedia λ

I don't really have the patience to do more than see the options come up and pick whichever one my subconscious says to, I think. So I'm super fast, but not so accurate.

@Cerberus Yeah. Definitely.

Cerberus

I only see a word I really don't know—or don't know the way it is used in context—maybe once or twice a game.

aedia λ

Some of 'em drive me nuts when they don't quite fit the part of speech, but you know it must be the best answer.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Yeah I do that too; but I don't think a lower speed would help. I got only two errors on my F anyway, and I was quite fast all the while (3 seconds average I think).

@aediaλ Exactly. Makes you reread all the answers or just clickety click.

user19161

@Cerberus Nice new word!

Cerberus

11:57 PM

Nope old word.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Lucky! I probably see... hmm. I'll try to count next time. Maybe about 2 words that are brand new and 4 others I feel I've seen but can't place.

Cerberus

Yeah there will be a few that I wouldn't know how to use actively but that I can get right passively.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…