English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

9:00 PM

Verbicate is sufficient.

@MattEllenД I concur! The computer reading it on Google translate also doesn't sound half bad. It sounds a little bit like Ida or Ada.

Matt Ellen Д

@aediaλ yay!

@JasperLoy why be just sufficient, when I can overcompensate?

aedia λ

Besides, sometimes you really gotta smash that connotation of discombobulating or prognosticating in there.

user19161

@aediaλ It sounds a bit silly.

user19161

@aediaλ Your vocab is too huge for me.

aedia λ

9:03 PM

@JasperLoy Como yo.

Matt Ellen Д

um

aedia λ

@JasperLoy I love big words?

user19161

I love big dreams.

Matt Ellen Д

oh!

user19161

Dream a dream, I'm lost in a dream about you

simchona

9:04 PM

Good morning!

1

Q: Word-order and meaning - which is correct for this notice?

I'm creating some signs for the office car park, and one of these signs is to control access. What I'm trying to get it to indicate is that cars aren't permitted between 10 am and 4pm except for access. Which of the below mean what I want to say above? Except for access 10 am - 4 pm 10 am - ...

Matt Ellen Д

hola!

simchona

I noticed the Eric the Half-a-Bee song came up earlier when Chaos came in

user19161

@simchona Done!

simchona

Whee!

aedia λ

@simchona Buenos días!

simchona

9:07 PM

I hate when I actually give my reason to close, and the OP is like "why you do this"

-1

Q: When should I use "is", and when "does"?

I know this is really basic, and I know the answer internally, I just find that I can't articulate it. When would you use "is", and when is "does" more appropriate? E.g. "The sun is green", vs "The computer does work". I'm looking for a really concise and easy to remember explanation, not for t...

word-usage tense

user19161

@simchona That is the sound made by Mana which I plagiarised!

simchona

Isn't this one kind of gen ref?

2

Q: Are "rhyme" and "rhythmic" related words?

When I look at these words, it seems that they should have something in common. The concept behind both is also related. They both denote the concept of patterns of sound. Are they related morphologically, etymologically, or in any way?

etymology similarities

user19161

@simchona Your second comment cleared the air, so no need to get upset.

user19161

@simchona And what would the reference be?

simchona

@JasperLoy A dictionary

Or EtymOnline

user19161

9:12 PM

@simchona OK, though I am not sure etymonline is standard, and people have no access to OED.

Matt Ellen Д

Orange Eucalyptus Dancers! They're very exclusive. I tried to get them for my birthday, but they were fully booked.

simchona

dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhythmic

It breaks it down here

Origin:
1595–1605; < Late Latin rhythmicus < Greek rhythmikós. See rhythm, -ic

user19161

@simchona I see, though I do not consider that an authoritative source. Anyway many questions would have to be closed too if we go to that extent.

aedia λ

Sometimes using the wording of the actual close reasons (like NARQ) doesn't go over so well. People tend to consider their questions real, even if they aren't clear or they're off-topic.

user19161

For example, the lay vs lie question is just a dictionary question to me.

aedia λ

9:15 PM

People who come here after primarily using SO also don't really have as much experience with the need to post their own research (in the form of links or references), I think.

user19161

@MattEllenД You are certainly drunk to equate OED to that!

Matt Ellen Д

yeah. I wish people on SO would do more research!

@JasperLoy i'm not srunk, Mr. Loy.

aedia λ

On SO it seems to be perfectly acceptable to just post a snippet or example of the problem you're having. You might not get upvotes but your question won't be burninated.

user19161

@aediaλ burnt

user19161

@MattEllenД drunk

aedia λ

9:17 PM

@JasperLoy If I said that, you might think it just got singed!

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy 'twas for effect :D

user19161

@aediaλ sung :)

user19161

@MattEllenД Mine was for effect too.

Matt Ellen Д

oh! sorry, I'm a bit oblivious. I'm trying to think up my blog post

user19161

I am starting to think that judging whether a question is OT or not is more difficult than the question itself.

aedia λ

9:20 PM

@simchona I thought so (it seemed obvious at first) but it was hard to find dictionaries that made the etymology obvious. Wiktionary wasn't even crystal clear for me, so I didn't vote to close.

simchona

Yeah, that makes sense

user19161

This makes dollars.

user19161

0

Q: OK, I'll bite: Why was my post closed as unlikely to ever help any future visitors?

What other categorical synonyms could represent "published content" or articles on my computer? an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet. I didn't notice prohibition to computer topic in the FAQ (after it was cl...

discussion

user19161

He wants to bite us.

simchona

Did you read his answer?

About "I'll take my toys and go home"

user19161

9:30 PM

I just did. I am a bit sleepy now so not understanding it.

simchona

haha

drɱ65 δ

I just did the rep recalc I've been dreading, and lost 102 rep.

simchona

How was the rally?

user19161

Maybe he means he won't post again.

drɱ65 δ

@JasperLoy Probably

simchona

9:31 PM

@drɱ65δ I hijacked your thread. I'll do another rep recalc tomorrow and lose a lot too

drɱ65 δ

@simchona It's because I answered too many bad questions

simchona

@drɱ65δ Me too

drɱ65 δ

I bet Thursagen is down there, too

simchona

And I can tell they're my older ones because my rep for the past week is stable

drɱ65 δ

@simchona Same here

The worst to lose was an accepted 6-vote answer about hamburgers

simchona

9:33 PM

We can upvote each other's good ones

user19161

@simchona Quite inspiring. It was a speaker from the US.

user19161

@simchona Cheating should not be done so openly.

drɱ65 δ

@sim the good news is I hit my rep cap today for the first time in weeks

simchona

@drɱ65δ Nice

drɱ65 δ

@simchona I think that's called cross-voting, and we're not allowed to do it in public

Grace Note

9:34 PM

@JasperLoy You speak of import as if people are watching

simchona

Isn't that what upvotes are for? Good answers?

Grace Note

@drɱ65δ Cross posting is when you post on two or more sites the same question.

drɱ65 δ

Simchona and I are mature enough not to game rep (aren't we).

@GraceNote Oops, I meant cross-voting

simchona

@drɱ65δ Yup.

user19161

@GraceNote You have been coming in rather suddenly recently!

Grace Note

9:36 PM

At any rate, abusive, vote-rings are not allowed, public or otherwise (we keep watch on that, y'know), but if someone has, y'know, good answers, you should be upvoting them.

simchona

The rep at english.stackexchange.com/reputation is always correct, right? Or is it?

Grace Note

@simchona It is

user19161

@simchona It does not show deleted posts, so just press recalc button and it is correct, but you can do this at most once a day.

simchona

so hitting "trigger rep recalc" just matches up between that page, and the main EL&U page?

drɱ65 δ

@simchona Also, I vote a lot anyway - I just need to make sure I don't upvote you 20 times a day or something silly like that.

user19161

9:37 PM

@simchona I would think so.

Grace Note

@simchona Aye

simchona

@GraceNote Oh, I feel better then. They're different, but I know they're different

Grace Note

@JasperLoy That's why it's always correct - deleted posts don't figure in to your actual reputation.

We don't alter your displayed reputation in accordance with deleted posts/votes because you can't really see that activity - there's nothing to see on the user's UI that would allow noticing that change. It'd make things very confusing. This way, they only get synced when they explicitly look up that there is a discrepancy.

simchona

I like knowing what my rep really is, not what I'd like to think it is

Sad, this person seems really upset:

0

A: OK, I'll bite: Why was my post closed as unlikely to ever help any future visitors?

I wrote in this meta post, and I'll say it again, I'm not going to argue about what you will or will not allow on your site. This is simply a creative language question. In the one answer I did get before it was closed, the author did understand the question, and provided a very accurate, thoug...

drɱ65 δ

@simchona I did some data research and found that as of the last data dump (two or three days ago) you have over 2500 rep over your cap

user19161

9:42 PM

@simchona This person seems to be the one I just mentioned. Anyway there is a graphics program called metapost.

simchona

@drɱ65δ As in, if i capped every day I have 2500 extra?

user19161

@drɱ65δ Waste, they should have donated it to me rather than throw it in the bin.

simchona

3

Q: Where does the saying "made from scratch" originate?

I've heard the saying "made from scratch" many times in my life from living in the southern part of the United States. What is scratch in this context and how did this saying come about?

meaning etymology idioms

Mine has sources. The first/top voted answer at the moment is wrong.

Jez

> As to the question if this is completely arbitrary. That's simply a put down. There is no comparison between a "proper noun" and a "creative name" for a taxonomic category. If anything I should have thought it fun for any geek who ever wanted to customize someone else's desktop with their visual wallpaper.

That guy can argue almost as well as me :-)

2

drɱ65 δ

@simchona All the rep you would have earned w/o a cap minus what you actually have equals over 2500

user19161

9:46 PM

@simchona +1. You will get used to wrong answers being most upvoted.

simchona

@drɱ65δ damn

drɱ65 δ

@simchona Mine is over 3K

simchona

I also just posted mine so hopefully it'll get bumped

user19161

@simchona Bumping old answers is a way to get more rep. Don't let out the secret.

drɱ65 δ

@simchona +1 again

You're not getting any rep like this...

...you're already at your cap

I bet you have 3K over, too, by now

user19161

9:48 PM

Another trick is not to answer too many questions on one day, so you don't waste rep.

simchona

@drɱ65δ Then I'll wait 2 hours and pray

drɱ65 δ

@JasperLoy But then someone else will get voted

user19161

@simchona Praying for rep sounds very drastic.

drɱ65 δ

@JasperLoy Or accepted

@JasperLoy Seconded

user19161

@drɱ65δ It's OK, let everyone have some bread.

simchona

9:50 PM

I like being right

Grace Note

@JasperLoy You can score a lot more reputation through accepts, though, and then your volume of answers lends itself well to trickling reputation overnight and that stuff.

drɱ65 δ

@JasperLoy You're right, as always. Salut!

@GraceNote Very true

Actually, I find it a good idea to be extremely active when I get a chance, so that while I can't be on, I still have chances of rep "trickling in".

Not to mention accepts

Matt Ellen Д

@GraceNote really? you can only get 15 per answer for accepts, but you can get potentially limitless rep for up votes. have I misunderstood you?

drɱ65 δ

@JasperLoy So every dog has his day

user19161

Why is this conversation degenerating into rep whoring?

drɱ65 δ

9:52 PM

@JasperLoy It's all me

Matt Ellen Д

because I'm a rep whore

I'm just not a very good one

drɱ65 δ

What were you talking about before?

user19161

@drɱ65δ Nothing.

aedia λ

@JasperLoy Because some of you apparently have time to actually answer questions?

Grace Note

@MattEllenД That 15 isn't subject to the reputation cap

drɱ65 δ

9:53 PM

@JasperLoy then we're generating, not degenerating

Grace Note

Which means, if you get 20 accepts in a day, that's 300 uncapped reputation.

drɱ65 δ

Only SO gives that, though

His Royal Highness Jon Skeet

user19161

@drɱ65δ You made yourself unpingable I think.

Matt Ellen Д

@GraceNote but getting accepted is less likely than getting upvoted and overall I would think more rep is gain through up votes, so a popular answer will be more... um... fortuitous? over an accepted answer, since it will gain rep over more than one time period

aedia λ

@MattEllenД More better.

Grace Note

9:55 PM

@MattEllenД And yet, you can continue to get voted on future days as well.

Matt Ellen Д

:D

drɱ65 δ

@JasperLoy Try dr65

user19161

Well, everyone is right, just different strategies.

drɱ65 δ

Does that work?

user19161

@dr65 Do you get this?

drɱ65 δ

9:56 PM

Yes

Matt Ellen Д

Sorry, I was just trying to understand your logic, @Grace. I think I get you now

drɱ65 δ

Weird

Grace Note

@MattEllenД You don't need to say sorry. ♪

drɱ65 δ

@JasperLoy Simchona did that to me yesterday

user19161

@drɱ65δ This world is full of weird things.

drɱ65 δ

9:57 PM

@JasperLoy There you go again

dr65

simchona

@drɱ65δ What'd I do?

drɱ65 δ

Or do you already have your clipboard ready?

@drɱ65δ

That's what

user19161

@simchona You did a @dr65.

drɱ65 δ

Instead of @dr65

Matt Ellen Д

@drɱ65δ the system does it for us, with the reply arrow!

drɱ65 δ

9:58 PM

@MattEllenД Except in the main site

user19161

@MattEllenД But sometimes you can't find sth to reply to.

aedia λ

yesterday, by Grace Note

You can skip special characters, aye

drɱ65 δ

@MattEllenД Oh, duh

Matt Ellen Д

yay! lots of replies!

user19161

@aediaλ You just did a Reg.

aedia λ

9:58 PM

We talked about this some yesterday but I don't know what the conclusion was after they started tormenting @Cerberus.

drɱ65 δ

@aediaλ Yeah, how'd you do that?

user19161

@aediaλ Don't ping him. He is a busy man.

drɱ65 δ

So can anyone do that in the main site too?

@dr65?

user19161

No idea.

aedia λ

Jul 15 at 15:39, by Kit

I rightclick on the left side to copy the link location, but you can also left click and choose the permalink to get the link.

drɱ65 δ

10:01 PM

32 secs ago, by aedia λ

Jul 15 at 15:39, by Kit

I rightclick on the left side to copy the link location, but you can also left click and choose the permalink to get the link.

Ah, I see

Who named the room?

Aren't all chat rooms incomprehensible?

aedia λ

'Twas before my time.

Oh, I think Reg told us the story, once.

drɱ65 δ

Post a link?

Do you know where it is?

Matt Ellen Д

Aye, reg could quote it in a moment

but I can't seem to find it

the earliest I can find is...

drɱ65 δ

Alas, for he is no longer in our presence!

Matt Ellen Д

May 6 at 13:39, by RegDwight

That's why we're called the Incomprehensible Room.

user19161

10:04 PM

@drɱ65δ They are all incomprehensible, but not Incomprehensible.

Matt Ellen Д

oh, apparently, that when it was named!

user19161

The starred messages are getting very stupid.

Matt Ellen Д

yay! i found it

May 8 at 0:44, by RegDwight

In fact, this room is known as The Incomprehensible Room outside of ELU.

drɱ65 δ

Am I starring too much?

Matt Ellen Д

May 21 at 13:05, by RegDwight

room topic changed to English Language and Usage: aka The Incomprehensible Room

user19161

10:05 PM

Hey who is messing with the stars?

user19161

There are only stars in the sky.

user19161

As usual, nobody confesses to the starring.

aedia λ

@MattEllenД I swear there's once he told us a story about how we got the name, though, and quoted from the Teacher's Lounge? Does that have something to do with our name, or was that totally unrelated?

Matt Ellen Д

I confess to not starring!

@aediaλ I don't know

drɱ65 δ

I confess to starring that!

Matt Ellen Д

10:08 PM

the last thing I starred was MrsHiny's song about code

drɱ65 δ

6

Q: What is the word for the detachable part of a ticket

Admission tickets such as those for the cinema are often composed of a part which will remain to the customer, and a part which will remain to the attendant. What are the two parts called? What is the action of separating the two parts called? What is the word for the dotted line, usually with ...

single-word-requests

user19161

I confess I never star anything here or on the main site.

Matt Ellen Д

really?

drɱ65 δ

We're at the top of hotness over SE

Matt Ellen Д

it surprises me

user19161

10:08 PM

@MattEllenД I never lie.

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy aye

i'm still surprised

drɱ65 δ

I'm surprised that the detachable question is so hot

90 hotness

Top

Matt Ellen Д

yes. the answer is stub. it's not like a revelation

not like the toilet question

drɱ65 δ

@MattEllenД Well, counterfoil is what makes it interesting

Matt Ellen Д

oh, we learned so much that day

drɱ65 δ

10:10 PM

But even counterfoil isn't the coolest word.

WHOA! I got 11 upvotes??

Just noticed

Last I checked, it was 8

Only 30 minutes ago

I deserve the Talkative badge

I need to lose a badge in exchange for this chatter

user19161

@drɱ65δ Yes you seem pretty talkative today.

drɱ65 δ

@simchona: I have 50 over cap today alone, so don't feel bad

(Oh, you're not here.)

simchona

I'm here

Just on the main site/watching hulu

drɱ65 δ

Actually, you have 90 over

Oh well.

Matt Ellen Д

@drɱ65δ There is a problem with the question: it is 3 questions in one. I disapprove of that. It has been allowed in this instance, and it seems relatively ok since they're kinda related, but still: I don't like it.

drɱ65 δ

10:18 PM

@simchona G2g, and as a parting shot, I'm giving you a silver badge

Should appear soon

Enlightened

simchona

@drɱ65δ Ooo thank you!

Matt Ellen Д

7 hours ago, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Hey no flirting in chat.

simchona

@MattEllenД I apparently flirt with everyone then

Matt Ellen Д

:D jolly good

I'm only messing

simchona

Haha, I know

I liked your "on the outskirts" answer

Matt Ellen Д

10:22 PM

:D phew! I worry sometimes, because text doesn't have my tone of voice in it.

simchona

It's like how sarcasm doesn't quite work

Or it works too well

Matt Ellen Д

@simchona thanks! I like it, but I was surprised it got upvotes, since it's just guess work

simchona

I liked that you worked with Martha's graph

Matt Ellen Д

i thought I might edit it in to her answer, but then I didn't want to mess it up

now we both get reps!

simchona

@MattEllenД You can ask her permission

Matt Ellen Д

10:24 PM

true

well, I might next time. This time I'll keep the reputation. I'm less than 100 away from close votes!

I think it's fair to say, @Jasper, I am now < sober. I wouldn't say drunk, tipsy, though, is acceptable.

JSBᾶngs

10:57 PM

@drɱ65δ this is a rare example of a single-word-request that turned out to be interesting and informative

btw i especially approve of your m-with-hook

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

11:11 PM

DId any if your guys hear about the Hurricane Irene?

simchona

Proofreading question:

Grace Note

That the hurricane that's supposed to tear straight through my town this weekend?

simchona

0

Q: Can I say "he is 3 years and a half old" or there is a better way?

"The boy is 3 years and a half old" Does it sound okay or it's wrong? What would be the right way?

phrase-requests

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

Anyhow, se ya in 30 min or so. getting Pizza from Sarge's. Bye!

Chaos Control

aedia λ

@Grace You all prepared (as much as one can be)? I'm not used to anticipating hurricanes.

Grace Note

11:18 PM

@aediaλ My preparation for typhoons used to be "Stay in the house because we're smart enough to build houses that can withstand torrential rain and typhoon-level winds".

aedia λ

I live enough inland that we're not supposed to get the brunt of it, but I'm still nervous about being home in my highrise.

@Grace Typhoons?

Surely when you were somewhere else? Does Taiwan get typhoons?

I am totally ignorant on my storm categorization.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MattEllenД No I couldn't, because it was in a super secret mod room, which I am not supposed to be quoting.

But it was Michael Myers.

aedia λ

I knew it! I just couldn't find it, because it didn't officially exist, or something.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Jul 15 at 17:44, by Michael Myers

Some rooms you can join and get up to speed by reading the last 15 minutes of the transcript. Here you have to go back to December.

That wasn't his actual complaint, though.

simchona

@Reg--Kiamalaluno said that paragraph proofreading is off topic, but not single sentences. Is this right?

(In regards to this:

1

Q: Can I say "he is 3 years and a half old" or is there a better way?

The boy is 3 years and a half old. Does it sound okay, or is it wrong? What would be the right way to say it?

grammaticality sentence correctness

RegDwight Ѭſ道

11:29 PM

That is not proofreading.

simchona

Ok. I stand corrected.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

To me, proofreading is, here's some stuff I wrote, is there any problem with it?

But it's perfectly fine to ask, here's some stuff I wrote and I have this particular problem with it.

simchona

@RegDwightѬſ道 The thing is, I didn't see a particular problem explicitly

Implicitly, yes

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Now, this question doesn't really explicitly specify what the problem is, but I think it's clear.

Jinx.

It's terribly tagged, though.

simchona

I'm horrible on fixing tags

> But "not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet" is ridiculous. Robusto 初夢, drɱ65 δ, Mitch, aedia λ, or kiamlaluno should speak up to explain their opinion.

Whoa now.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

11:33 PM

I would say it's about word-order, and I am surprised to see correctness at all. That one must die in a ball of fire, because that's precisely what grammaticality is there for.

simchona

So do we not need correctness?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's a synonym now.

english.stackexchange.com/tags/grammaticality/info

> Grammaticality refers to whether some word, phrase, or sentence is grammatical; this tag encompasses questions about where the boundary between grammatical and ungrammatical is. Questions with this tag ask questions about whether some particular usage is “grammatical”, “correct”, “right”, “proper” or “ungrammatical”, “incorrect”, “wrong”, “erroneous”, a “mistake”, etc.

aedia λ

@Grace all my life I really thought typhoons and hurricanes and cyclones were different things and now Wikipedia tells me they are all tropical cyclones. Wow.

FallenAngelEyes

@aediaλ I thought typhoons were what hurricanes in the Pacific were named

aedia λ

Also, I'm more scared about the hurricane now that I read about typhoons :'(

FallenAngelEyes

11:39 PM

At least that's what I learned growing up

aedia λ

@fallen Hi! And yes.

FallenAngelEyes

And hi!

aedia λ

It says they can change name when they move, so the same storm could even be both.

FallenAngelEyes

Huh, neat.

I didn't realize that.

The more you know ~~~~*

aedia λ

Stop making me laugh to myself in front of everyone waiting for the bus!

FallenAngelEyes

11:41 PM

It's a plot to make you look silly! Duck!

Mana

SHARK!

aedia λ

I'm not falling for that one. It's a friendly shark. @Kit said so.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mana Are you greeting us in German now?

Mana

@RegDwight Gesundheit.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dank u.

simchona

11:48 PM

I wrote an answer here--can I get feedback on whether I missed something?

3

Q: Can I say "he is 3 years and a half old" or is there a better way?

The boy is 3 years and a half old. In the bolded section, is such a word order okay, or is it wrong? What would be the right way to say it?

grammaticality word-order

Adel

@si

@simchona - excellent :)

oya hello everyone

simchona

@Adel Thank you! I'm just hoping I didn't miss a case, like if some quantities are written a different way

aedia λ

@Adel Hello!

Adel

Hi Aedia :) , and greetings to all!

@simchona - the only other quantities I can think of are words like "score" , "dozen", etc.

simchona

@Adel And those all go after, so I think it's good. Thank you!

Adel

11:54 PM

You're welcome :)

aedia λ

@sim maybe give another example specific to the question like "three years and six months" compared with "three years and a half year" which seems to work but no native speaker would say, I think

simchona

@aediaλ Oh! good idea

aedia λ

I guess 'cause repeating the same unit isn't very normal either

Adel

I'm curious, do any of you watch TV for more than an hour a day?

aedia λ

@sim Dollars and cents makes me think of some archaic formulation that may match the word order in op's question like "two bits and twenty" (prob not a valid qty) or something like that

I can't come up with a real one, I'm sure I'm going to wake up thinking of a great example a week from now

simchona

11:59 PM

Haha, yeah

"I have this great idea---oh wait. Where'd that question go?"

aedia λ

@Adel not usually; occasionally watch movies or marathon-watch old tv shows though

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…