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6:01 PM
@Jez That is a nice contradiction in terms!
 
Jez
not really; voiceless is talking about the use of the vocal chords
not the only way to make sound
 
Oh, OK, of course.
 
Jez
'voiceless h' is a tautology in English, though
 
But can an h be voiced?
Ah.
 
Jez
the 'h' is the introductory sound to the vowel
'hello' vs 'allo'
 
6:03 PM
Yeah, and there is only one h, isn't there? More or less.
 
Jez
yeah
 
No voiced v. unvoiced.
OK.
 
Jez
Actually there's "th"
the "h" there is different
so im probably wrong
 
Right, but that isn't /h/.
Yeah.
 
The voiceless glottal transition, commonly called a "fricative", is a type of sound used in some spoken languages which patterns like a fricative or approximant consonant phonologically, but often lacks the usual phonetic characteristics of a consonant. The symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet that represents this sound is , and the equivalent X-SAMPA symbol is h. Although has been described as a voiceless vowel, because in many languages it lacks the place and manner of articulation of a prototypical consonant, it also lacks the height and backness of a prototypical vowel: [ a...
 
Jez
6:04 PM
Yeah, that's what I meant.
 
> In some languages the vocal cords are actively separated, so it is always voiceless; in others the cords are lax, so that it may take on the voicing of adjacent sounds.
 
Jez
Did the Romans pronounce the voiceless glottal fricative?
And why would any language in its right mind not drop the voiced uvular fricative?
That ruins your throat.
 
6:22 PM
@Jez Yup they did:
Latin spelling or orthography refers to the spelling of Latin words written in the scripts of all historical phases of Latin from Old Latin to the present. They all use some phase of the same alphabet even though conventional spellings may vary from phase to phase. The Roman alphabet, or Latin alphabet, was adapted from the Old Italic alphabet to represent the phonemes of the Latin language. The Old Italic alphabet had in turn been borrowed from the Greek alphabet, itself adapted from the Phoenician alphabet. A given phoneme may well be represented by different letters in different peri...
 
Jez
@Cerberus Google Translate doesn't say so: translate.google.com/#la|en|HERBA
 
@aediaλ I like the FDR memorial. In my opinion, it's underrated.
 
@SpareOom I agree. I wish I'd known how nice it was; I would have taken the time to go down to it sooner.
 
I've been in the DC area for 8 years or so, and only saw it when one of my sisters came to visit this year.
I'm sorry there were a bunch of kids there ruining it for you. We had it almost to ourselves.
 
I really like that it's on the edge of the tidal basin and it has lots of shade and trees. It's not like some other memorials where you walk what seems like hours across hot grass only to see some lonely hunks of stone out in the middle of nowhere, roasting in the sun.
 
6:34 PM
Exactly!
I think the reason I didn't bother before was that I assumed it was another chunk of marble. It's very much like a park.
 
@SpareOom I've been down in the region for... hmm, 5 years, walking distance to Metro for 2, and I still haven't seen half the museums and monuments recently. And I only went to the FDR one when my friend from up north was visiting!
 
@Jez Strange. Perhaps Google uses a non-classical pronunciation.
 
@aediaλ We need visitors to take us there more often. I also haven't seen near all the museums - even though so many are free.
 
Everyone has that with his own city.
It's odd.
 
Yes, it was the same in other places I've lived.
But I keep going away for vacations.
 
6:39 PM
Hehe.
 
Don't know what you got till it's gone.
 
But you don't know what everyone has until you've traveled there either. ;)
I've got a sister that won't leave the country. I think she must be adopted.
I hear about people growing up 25 miles from DC and have never been there even once.
 
> They took all the trees, put 'em in a tree museum. And they charged the people a dollar and a half just to see 'em.
 
Jez
pave paradise, put up a parking lot!
 
@SpareOom I hear of that too! Terrible!
@SpareOom I know! I want to see everything.
 
6:43 PM
I was just thinking of this song! I didn't know Joni Mitchell sang it first.
I'm old enough to know better.
 
@aediaλ Nowadays $1.50 would be a bargain for a tree museum!
 
A what museum?
 
At least I live in a suburb and I get to see foxes and deer run through my yard occasionally.
 
We do not have those structures here.
 
Tree museum:
 
6:46 PM
Lovely!
 
@SpareOom We had a dress-like-a-celebrity day once in high school. I was Joni Mitchell and I learned to play bits of some of her songs badly on my brother's ukulele. Only the teachers knew who I was. Kind of embarrassing, which is probably why I remember.
 
I remember one day at work when one of the young girls asked me if I knew George Harrison used to be with the Beatles. People are getting too young.
Except me, of course, who is getting too old. XP
@aediaλ I think it would be more fun to dress like a less well known celebrity.
 
@SpareOom I'm sure at the time I just wanted to fit in. It does get lonely, being invisible and omniscient and pink and all.
Pink doesn't even get the respect of the other colors.
sigh Someday, someday, there will be rainbow happiness for all.
 
At what age were you pink?
I was lavender! :D
 
7:01 PM
I've always been invisible and pink! And I will be, for eternity!
gasps Surely you know about the IPU?
 
No, sorry, I don't.
The Invisible Pink Unicorn (IPU) is the goddess of a parody religion used to satirize theistic beliefs, taking the form of a unicorn that is paradoxically both invisible and pink. She is a rhetorical illustration used by atheists and other religious skeptics as a contemporary version of Russell's teapot, sometimes mentioned in conjunction with the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The IPU is used to argue that supernatural beliefs are arbitrary by, for example, replacing the word God in any theistic statement with Invisible Pink Unicorn. The mutually exclusive attributes of pinkness and invisibi...
This is good to know.
I'm in the other camp, actually, though I don't mind a little parody.
 
@SpareOom Do you like rainbows?
 
I especiailly like that first rainbow.
 
Jul 15 at 15:28, by aedia
user image
Welcome aboard the rainbow train!
@SpareOom Where are the doves and the olive branch? Or am I mixing up my stories?
 
A dove with an olive branch is the same story. What do you mean where are they?
 
7:09 PM
They weren't mentioned on that page and I was too lazy to click any links ;)
 
If you look at the second window left of the leftmost door, you can make out the branch and the dove.
 
Jez
best commentary on queers:
 
Why didn't they paint a sixpack on the right one?
 
Jez
 
7:14 PM
@Cerberus There are limits to what the computer can do when you say "enhance," silly doggies.
 
@aediaλ I suppose so... but even my limited PS skills could do that!
 
@Jez Lol!
 
Besides, I was thinking of make-up.
@Jez "And another American family is destroyed" — very nice.
Very well done (except the goodie-goodie parts where everybody clapped).
 
Jez
:-)
 
I don't feel very threatened, to be honest.
 
7:17 PM
@SpareOom Ignorant fool!
 
"I brought swatches!"
 
Haha.
 
@SpareOom It gets worse! There are queer atheist unicorns in your city, photographing toilet graffiti!
 
I feel more threatened by straight men.
 
As long as they's invisible...
Strait?
 
7:20 PM
is a series of Japanese manga and light novel series by Ichirō Sakaki with illustrations by Yō Fujishiro, published by Fujimi Shobo and since 2000 has run for ten volumes. It currently has sold over half a million copies In 2007 a three episode original video animation based on the light novel was produced by Feel Anime Studios. The OVA series has been licensed for English language translation and DVD release in the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom by Manga Entertainment. A film version was aired on the Sci-Fi Channel as part of their Ani-Monday programming block on Oc...
 
Jez
don't ya hate it when ya get thinking about tasty food, and think about it in the back of your mind for an hour, and you start getting acid reflux coz your stomach is getting so acidic
 
For some reason spelling variation puns are always the ones that get me to break into laughter that I have to cover up by pretending to start coughing because I'm supposed to have finished eating lunch and back to work.
 
@SpareOom Haha nice.
@aediaλ Better make up some horrible disease!
 
A straitjacket is a garment shaped like a jacket with overlong sleeves and is typically used to restrain a person who may otherwise cause harm to themselves or others. Once the arms are inserted into the straitjacket's sleeves, they are then crossed across the chest. The end of the sleeves are then tied to the back of the wearer, ensuring that the arms are kept close to the chest with as little movement as possible. Although straitjacket is the most common spelling, strait-jacket is also frequently used, and in Scotland strait-waistcoat, which is generally deemed archaic. Straitjacke...
The difference a space can make. :)
 
@SpareOom That looks nice.
 
7:24 PM
Those strait men are scary.
 
I think she's pretty scary too. Are you sure the straitjacket and leg irons are enough to keep her in check?
 
You know, it just occurred to me that all those "straight but not narrow" stickers, shirts, etc. would have been funnier if they read "strait but not narrow".
 
She could destroy a city in an instant.
 
Jez
@Cerberus That'd be more of a turn-on if she were Xena.
 
> Straitjackets are also known as camisoles
 
7:26 PM
@Jez Hah I am not surpised.
@aediaλ Right!
 
Camisoles? Seriously? No wonder those tops with a built-in bra are so uncomfortable.
 
@aediaλ I've never tried one.
 
Odd.
 
@SpareOom Cute! But god, the moire patterns from that dress!
@Cerberus Even?
 
7:35 PM
There are no moire patterns. Are you high?
 
@SpareOom oh but there are
 
You're high too?
I saw them too. What's to be done?
 
@SpareOom no. it's especially bad right at the beginning of the song
 
@SpareOom THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
 
Jul 2 at 14:01, by RegDwight
When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moiré.
 
7:44 PM
hi Reg! good to see you.
 
Yo Reg. Did you really go to ROme?
 
Hi all who've not been hied yet.
Me comes straight from the Eternal City, aye.
 
Hey Dwig! Did you enjoy your trip?
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 How long did you get to spend there?
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 One more question on the stack: did you get the opportunity to try the wines I mentioned the other day for aedia?
 
7:49 PM
And more importantly, did you bring all of us something from there?
 
@AlainPannetier No, it's kinda hard to find an opportunity since neither my wife nor myself are heavy wine drinkers. We're more of those why-spoil-perfectly-fine-grape-juice types.
@SpareOom 5 and a half days.
@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū Um, I dunno, yes?
@GraceNote Yeah, all things considered yes, though I'm not sure it will be enough for me to visit again any time soon.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Do you prefer white or red?
 
Mmhmm
 
@SpareOom What kind of racist question is that?
@GraceNote I'll probably visit Madeira for the third time before I visit Rome for the second.
And I've only been to Madeira once.
 
Maybe it was not funny as it seems... ah well...
 
7:52 PM
@RegDwightѬſ道 The incomprehensible type?
 
I see, I see
 
@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū Ich lache in mich hinein.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Sparkling cider is quite nice.
 
swarm
 
7:56 PM
Sonic the Hedgehog summons ze mods...
 
@Reg ...I don't get it.
 
@reg But purposefully not flagged as spam
 
@ChaosGamerΕΛΥēelū I suppose we're quits then.
 
Eh, well, tell them I came and no one answered, but I kept my word. :) Sorry for the mod fest.
 
@Reg summon the mods?
 
8:02 PM
Look at all those diamonds in the user queue.
They are sent by Ivo Robotnik.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 I was reading through earlier transcript. Yeah, everyone in Italy leaves in August. Only tourists are left. I thought I'd buy a cello in Cremona in August, only to find all the shops were closed.
 
@SpareOom Serves you right for wanting to buy a cello.
 
@SpareOom Is it like France? Everything is closed for August?
 
Chiuso per ferie.
 
8:03 PM
It must be. I think all Europe takes August off.
 
@simchona I can't tell; I took all August off.
 
@AlainPannetier I usually take it off one day at a time.
 
Even here (near DC in the US of A) the streets are relatively empty in August.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Reminds me of Mark Twain. "It's easy to quit smoking. I've done it hundreds of times".
 
@SpareOom That reminds me, I saw some question while skimming the transcript, that @waiwai933 wanted more people to answer. About IPA, re: blog, maybe? I'll try to find it so I can actually answer it.
22 hours ago, by waiwai933
Quick poll question for all (reply to me even if you see this hours later): how well do you know the IPA?
 
8:07 PM
I know the IPA personally.
 
@aediaλ How can one reply so late? Do I just need to ping?
 
@SpareOom Find the message, hover over the left, you should get a number. Preface your message with :<number>
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 I needn't ask what you had to do for that...
 
What Grace said.
 
For example, I could've done the previous message with :1712281 to reply to your message just here. So doing that, you can reply to ancient messages and create the symbolic link necessary.
 
8:09 PM
Geez, this is really hard. I have trouble telling ɯ from ɨ, for instance. Now what? Is that good knowledge? Bad? Neither?
 
Oh, note waiwai had some followup q's after, asking how you learned IPA and interest in a blog post about it.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Eeh but noöne can tell those apart.
 
@Cerberus The Ottomen presumably can.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 The who? The Ottomans?
The Ottomänner?
 
8:13 PM
The plural of man is men, you ananas.
 
Huh? But I learned that the plural was -s.
 
Jez
 
Do you also say Romen?
 
@aediaλ I was taught IPA in fifth grade, at the same time I was taught Latin letters. Everything had a transcription next to it. Good times.
@Cerberus I will most gladly say Romen for a small fee.
 
@waiwai933 I don't know it well at all. History here: I'm years away from only having taken one linguistics class in college.
 
8:14 PM
How convenient that each Latin letter had its private IPA sumbol.
 
@Cerberus Nah, I'm talking words.
 
Latin words?
 
@waiwai933 I know the IPA for English well enough to get by, can read/write broad transcriptions. Can't do narrow transcriptions yet and I'm fuzzy on a lot of the non-English sounds. I also confuse my diphthongs.
 
@Cerberus English.
You might not realize, but English uses Latin letters.
So we would learn cat alongside [kæt].
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Ah, I see.
Makes sense.
 
8:16 PM
So it did.
 
@aediaλ Narrow transcriptions I cannot do either!
Would be cool, but hard.
 
@waiwai933 Self-taught from intro linguistics books and online recordings. Most recently drilling myself with index cards and doing practice exercises in Ohio State Language Files.
 
Aww index cards!
Just for fun?
 
Poor trees.
 
*rags
 
8:18 PM
"Drilling oneself with index cards" should totally be in the Urban Dictionary. On a second thought, it probably is.
 
user19161
@reg Welcome back from Roma!
 
Yay thanks.
 
@aediaλ how narrow is narrow? cos you can get really narrow, but no one really wants to
 
@JSBᾶngs Isn't there some standard "narrow"?
 
Yes, but them hez no Celsius.
 
8:19 PM
@Cerberus narrow vs. broad is a continuum, not a binary
 
@Cerberus Well, for fun and because I thought some rote practice would help me get down the ones I was mixing up. I wanted to be able to read the transcriptions in my books but I would find I skipped them if I didn't know something, instead of going back to the reference at the back of the book, and so I was missing a bit.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Uh what?
 
Uh that.
Ze standard narrow is defined in Celsius.
 
@JSBᾶngs Like, narrow at all.
 
@JSBᾶngs I mean, isn't there a standard degree of narrowness that is called "narrow" for practical purposes?
 
user19161
8:20 PM
@aediaλ You can also just read the dictionary. That will give you enough practice.
 
@aediaλ Very good!
 
@Cerberus I will call you "narrow" for practical purposes.
 
@Cerberus not necessarily. and i'm still kind of confused about what counts as "narrow" for this conversation
 
user19161
Narrow is what is not broad.
 
@aedia can you give me an example of "broad"?
 
8:21 PM
@RegDwightѬſ道 I think I'm missing something.
@JSBᾶngs That's why I asked.
 
@Cerberus Like bome narrow?
 
@JSBᾶngs Like this, see my fingers? That narrow. And not a bit narrower in either direction.
 
@JSBᾶngs I'd say broad is what you will find in dictionaries?
 
@Cerberus You're missing everything, given enough time.
 
@AlainPannetier I'm certainly missing that!
 
8:23 PM
Terrible pun was that (bone marrow).
 
@JSBᾶngs I am happy if I'm doing some practice and I got the same symbols in there that my book does, or that OALD does, for American English, for example. No syllable boundaries, no suprasegmental features, no trying to get down differences in dialects.
 
user19161
@AlainPannetier Well, I appreciate your pun and fun.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Is that the second law of thermodynamics?
 
@Cerberus Dictionaries are not narrow at all. They will transcribe both the L in milk and the L in Milch as the same sound, which it isn't at all.
 
@aediaλ okay, well that's fine. you can, if you want, go crazy with vowel diacritics trying to specify the exact vowel quality, but no one in their right mind does that
 
8:24 PM
I dunno how exactly broad that is, but my point is just that I can't do narrow yet, like, at all.
 
Jez
@AlainPannetier That's the definition of a bad pun.
 
@AlainPannetier Yeah I got that. I meant to say that I had only bone marrow, not bome narrow.
@RegDwightѬſ道 I said "broad".
 
I shouldn't have interrupted, please carry on guys. I'm as lost as @Cerberus, but I lurk behind his questions...
 
i would accept the premise that "no diacritics" = "broad", and after that it's just a matter of how exacting you want to be with your diacritics
 
@JSBᾶngs Well but you might once, in a class, to learn them.
 
user19161
8:25 PM
1
Q: Perspective Employers or Prospective Employers?

NickLarsenWhen I am applying for a job, would I say I am preparing my resume for perspective employers or prospective employers? I think it's prospective but I can see how both would fit.

 
user19161
Gen ref.
 
@Cerberus Yeah, I wanted to expand on that but didn't quite connect it properly to your massage.
 
Indeed.
 
@JasperLoy Yeah, someone should vote.
 
user19161
@SpareOom You are only 2534 points short.
 
8:27 PM
@JasperLoy Got some salt to go with that?
 
Y'all distracted me and I forgot waiwai's third question!
 
Did she have more than one? I only answered the one.
 
user19161
@SpareOom Hmm, I have some sugar for you!
 
user19161
@aediaλ Should he blog about it?
 
like, if you said that "pack" was [pæk], that would be broad. if you said it was [pʰæˀk̚], that would be narrow
 
8:29 PM
What is that apostrophe?
 
if you said that the vowel was really [ɛ̞] then you've started down the road to madness, but you're probably right
@Cerberus preglottalization
 
@waiwai933 Yes, I'd be interested in a blog post about IPA. I'm still learning and I'm sure even something addressed at beginners would offer something for me.
 
Hmm...
 
user19161
@aediaλ Now he's gonna put your index cards in his post too.
 
@SpareOom He had 3 total (I'm pretty sure waiwai is a "he") - if you click on the timestamp to go back to that point in the transcript, the others follow shortly :)
@SpareOom or, actually, you can see where I just replied. Duh, self, I don't know why I didn't think of that.
 
user19161
8:32 PM
To recap: Waiwai asks 1. Do you know IPA 2. How did you learn it 3. Would you want to see a blog post on it?
 
@Cerberus arguably the vowel in "pack" is also creaky-voiced, but really we're going nuts here so i'm going to stop
 
@waiwai933 I'm willing to learn what I can, but I'm probably not your target audience. If I remembered any of it, it would have been from memorizing in the class. We had audio examples. It may not have been the same list that is currently used in any case.
 
@JSBᾶngs Thanks. I had always wondered why there were what I took for different notation conventions.
 
@JasperLoy Haha, they're nothing exciting! I just needed a way to review what was in my book.
 
@AlainPannetier just to mix things up, there are legitimately different notations in different schools
 
8:33 PM
@JSBᾶngs However mad, it does sound interesting.
 
@aediaλ I went back and answered the other two in one message.
Thanks for your help.
 
user19161
@AlainPannetier Like chess. e4 or PK4 mean the same thing.
 
@JasperLoy Boo.
 
@Alain for example [j] is the palatal glide in IPA (like the initial sound of yes), but in some Americanist traditions it's used for the alveolopalatal voiced affricate (the initial sound of "joe"). conversely, americanists use [y] for the palatal glide, while in IPA [y] is a high rounded front vowel
but the americanist stuff is vulgar, and no one should use it any more
 
@JSBᾶngs Phew! I was hoping you weren't an Americanist.
 
8:36 PM
You can have my dʒ when you take it from my cold dead hand.
2
 
And my Celsius!
 
You have a cold dead Celsius? Fascinating.
 
@JSBᾶngs en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanist_phonetic_notation This? I bet that's my speed.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 Well I'm sure we have him somewhere, let me look...
 
@Cerberus i would never be an americanist. the very notion fills me with disgust.
 
8:37 PM
@Cerberus But is he really cold?
 
user19161
@Cerberus Boo!
 
@JSBᾶngs Good!
 
user19161
@RegDwightѬſ道 I would imagine that is how your g is pronounced.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 You're probably closer to the Old Graveyard in Uppsala, so you feel him.
 
@JasperLoy Today I didn't even have to use my J. I got to say it was a good day.
Uppsala is probably the single most funniest name for a city evar.
 
user19161
8:45 PM
6
Q: Possessive form for words ending in "y"

Bryan DowningWhich of the following is correct? The fortune 500 companys' assets are vast. The fortune 500 companies' assets are vast.

 
user19161
Gen ref.
 
@JasperLoy also dup
 
That's not even possessive. That's just plural.
 
@RegDwightѬſ道 nohat has a good answer on it. now that i see this i'm disinclined to close
this should be our canonical possessive/plural question
 
user19161
@JSBᾶngs OK.
 
8:52 PM
1
Q: Why "transferred" is written with two r's

Uw ConceptWhy is transferred written with two r's? I am a native speaker of Dutch, and in my point of view, that isn't logical. There are other words like coloured and endeavoured that only have -ed added after the verb.

Lemme dust off my dusty dupe-searching skills...
0
Q: Why do you write "occurred", and "listened"?

kiamlalunoThe past tense of to occur is occurred (not occured), but the past tense of to listen is listened (not listenned). Why? Which is the general rule that is applied to make the past tense of a verb?

Hey that was easier than I thought.
Now, if only that old question had a good answer...
 
Today, I learned how to use a flag in chat and not have it be a spam flag
However, it still brings in the hordes
 

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