English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-05-11 (page 2 of 3)

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2:00 PM

Sehr schön.

Meanwhile elsewhere:

0

A: "a/an" preceding a parenthetical statement

People should not edit their questions; once they have been responded to. Especially when the response directly references what would be, as it has here, redacted. For what possible purpose, one wonders? To impress? To avoid embarrassment? I'm merely speculating. But if so... Mission not accompl...

What does that even mean?

WTH?

Today is the International Dupe and Nonsense Day.

What is jonny on and why isn't he sharing?

2

@RegDwight I love this. It's totally insane.

@RegDwight Regdwight, ar you really not Russian? You haven't made one mistake in all those sentences that you have so far written. That's amazing!

*are

2:03 PM

You told me that my idioms were way off.

What's with that honey and tar thingamajig.

BUt that was not written in Russian!

Oh, sorry.

I can go back and edit all my comments so they are in Russian.

Where did you study Russian?

I should fix the chat, too.

Apr 23 at 23:58, by RegDwight

I could transliterate the entire protocol into Russian.

Apr 23 at 23:40, by RegDwight

Hey I just realized that I could change the description of this room to read "General discussion for english.stackexchange.com. IN RUSSIAN."

@brilliant In Europe.

I wonder if you irritate other users of this chat by using too much Russian.

Where exactly in Europe?

Was it hard to study Russian?

2:06 PM

RegDwight's Russian may be good, but I know how to damage his reputation: "Перестаньте обзываться, господин [sic] хороший. Из меня такой же немец, как из вас султан."

How is that a sic?

You don't know?

That is impeccable Russian.

@RegDwight :)

What is "sic"?

Clearly, it's Kosmonaut who has no idea about Russian. He can't even understand Fettes Brot.

2:07 PM

32 mins ago, by Kosmonaut

I recommend just throwing [sic] in randomly when quoting one's enemies. Nobody will want to admit they don't know why it is there, and the damage is done.

@Kosmonaut Ah, sorry.

May 6 at 15:02, by Robusto

@Vitaly — He's Russian when it suits him. German when it doesn't.

Besides, your Russian may be good, but at the same time, your Russian is horrible English.

@Martha This has been quoted like five times today.

All Russian words are just typos for English words.

2:08 PM

It's a good quote. Deserves repeating.

Apr 22 at 23:55, by RegDwight

Just listen to some Russians talking. Can you make out a single "word"?

@Robusto I wonder if it should be said "typos of English words" :)

Robusto is a Turing-incomplete ananas, so don't ask him.

@brilliant — wevs

"All Russian words are just typos for [sic] English words."

5

2:10 PM

@Kosmonaut :)

@Kosmonaut Yeah, should of been 4, not for.

@Robusto What is wevs?

@RegDwight :)

I bought a Turing bicycle, but it could never convince me it was truly sentient.

@brilliant — a.k.a. w/e

May 1 at 21:28, by RegDwight

Gähn

Soo.. About this... english.stackexchange.com/questions/24800/…

Jonny's answer.

2:12 PM

No Pein no Gähn.

He's on a roll today.

@brilliant It is "whatever", which is dismissive, but when you are really dismissive, you just say "whatevs", because why even bother saying all the syllables? But then if you are dismissive to the max™, then you bust out with wevs because why even bother saying two syllables?

^ Word.

@Kosmonaut HA-HA!!! Thank you.

The only way to be more dismissive than that is to actually fall into a coma.

2:13 PM

No, you can shorten wevs to w/.

@Kosmonaut — A loud snore with closed eyes will work too.

And that one can be shortened to a mid dot, as discussed on the main site.

Is "coma" pronounced as "comma"?

@Kosmonaut falls into a comma at the least provocation.

In fact, he has markolepsy.

@brilliant [koʊmə], [kɔmə]

2:15 PM

@MikeVaughan See, that one's actually an answer. Of sorts. "Sheila would only be in Facebook if TRON somehow became real." Only phrased more, um, colorfully.

Ah! I see.

@Kosmonaut Same as with coke.

4

Q: How to pronounce "Coke" so it is not mistaken for another word?

I always fear my conversation sounds like this: — What would you like to drink, sir? — I will take some cock, thanks. — ROFL. Any tips on how to pronounce Coke so it is not mistaken for anything? :)

@Martha I agree, though it's merit is questionable.

@RegDwight — Well, the thing is, you have to go into the restroom to use either.

“A manuscript written in 1714–1716, by two ambitious typos.” —1858 Printer Dec. (Bartlett), via OED.

2:17 PM

Oh wait, he means Coca-cola.

@Robusto That gives away your location as the Soviet Union.

@RegDwight — Yeah, suddenly my back yard has been annexed. Who do I see about that?

An ophtalmologist and an ornithologist.

That's a good combo.

How do you pronounce the name "Coco"? Is it the same as "cocoa"?

7

Q: Why is the "a" in "cocoa" silent?

Not being a native speaker of English, one of those words that tripped me up is “cocoa”. Besides having its vowels inverted from “cacao”; it also is pronounced exactly the same as “coco”, whereas “cacao” isn't pronounced “caca” and “boa” isn't pronounced “bo”. So why is the “a” in “cocoa” silent?...

pronunciation spelling loan-words

2:19 PM

@Vitaly I've been told you are Russian, too. Greetings to my compatriot. :)

Dammit. I already capped for today.. :(

It's 10 am

Well, then you can spend the rest of the day in the incomprehensible room.

@brilliant Oh, @RegDwight told you? Now you suddenly believe him? ;)

@RegDwight Where is that at? lol

@Vitaly Not suddenly. It took a nugget of Polonium.

2:20 PM

@Vitaly :)

May 8 at 0:44, by RegDwight

In fact, this room is known as The Incomprehensible Room outside of ELU.

user image

Ahhh

Interesting.

@RegDwight How do you manage to copy your own words so fast - those that were written days agao?

*ago

So how do you pronounce this name "Coco"?

[koʊkoʊ]

2:23 PM

*:963858 So how do you pronounce this name "Coco"? is it same as "cocoa"?

It's all [koʊkoʊ], my man.

@Kosmonaut I see. Thank you.

Here is a question for native English speakers: What irritates you the most in how Russians speak English to you?

* are trying to speak to you in English?

Mr. Disappointment

1

Q: Adverb to describe one's career?

I am writing a document where I need to describe a decision I'm making that is beneficial both to my finances and to furthering my career. I'm more partial to using two -ly adverbs to match the rhythm of the rest of the document. The first is obvious: financially. I am struggling with the second:...

word-choice adverbs

Should this be answered here, or does is belong on writers.SE?

@brilliant You know you can edit your posts here (with a fairly short time limit, but still): hover over the left edge of the post, click the down arrow that appears, and choose 'edit' from the options. Or, if the post you want to edit is the last thing you wrote, just hit the up arrow.

@Martha WOW!!! Thank you Martha!

2:33 PM

@MrDisappointment Sounds like a single-word-request to me.

@Martha We keep telling this to so many people that I've long lost track of whom we have or haven't told it to.

Mr. Disappointment

@RegDwight OK, reasonable enough, I'd say, if tagged as such.

user image

Again, Jonny's answer. More merit this time, though. english.stackexchange.com/questions/24817/…

Mr. Disappointment

And now it is. Nice n' fast.

@MikeVaughan Why does he keep talking about sub-sobrieties and empty Bacardies?

2:36 PM

@MikeVaughan And it answers @Martha's (starred) question...

@RegDwight I think he is inebriated.

@RegDwight There are quite a few newer chatters around now, so I guess it bears repeating. Especially:

Mar 31 at 23:02, by Alain Pannetier

Hey, I just discovered something. To edit your last chat, just press the up arrow.

That got starred like 8 times last time.

@Martha I discovered that yesterday.

You're just after all those stars, Marthio.

2:38 PM

@Martha I just let @RegDwight remove all my excess apostrophes for me. That's what he's paid for, after all.

@RegDwight Am not. Hmph. Sniff. (Mom, he's accusing me of stuff!)

@RegDwight wait.. You get paid? lol

Мама, он меня посчитал!

@MikeVaughan Yes, he gets paid exactly 3 times as much as we do.

@MikeVaughan How do you think he can afford to hand out all those internets?

2:39 PM

@MikeVaughan Yes. For every apostrophe I correct in chat, an innocent capitalist dies.

Haha

Awwww, I'm an innocent capitalist.

Then be careful, lest I turn your I'm into an Im.

I'm a capitalist. Innocent, not so much. (I'm the evil twin, after all.)

Given a very loose definition of "innocent".

Speaking of twin, I wonder what sis is up to. Perhaps I shall call her.

I'll be back later. Probably.

Have fun, everyone.

Alain Pannetier

2:49 PM

10 mins ago, by RegDwight

@MikeVaughan Yes. For every apostrophe I correct in chat, an innocent capitalist dies.

oxymoron...

That's socialist talk!

May 8 at 0:52, by RegDwight

This chat actually is a very evil place. It's just that it's not evil as in "Screw you!" — "No, screw you!!!", but rather as in "Communism!" — "No, Fahrenheit!"

Alain Pannetier

I nearly thought nobody was "listening".

Big Brother is listening you.

@brilliant ^

:)

2:53 PM

In Soviet Russia, you watch Big Brother.

I can't believe I haven't won that bounty on the "slang words for police" question yet. lol

3:16 PM

Is there any way to force someone to accept an answer? Sometimes a perfectly valid answer just sits there, getting upvotes, but never accepted, due to laziness.

No, you can't force people to accept.

And laziness is not the only possible reason why they don't.

If you don’t do this [accept answers], people will often politely ask you to go back and accept answers for more of your questions! as per the FAQ.

Well, it seems that way. Like this, for example. english.stackexchange.com/questions/24625/…

@Vitaly That's not forcing.

In fact, that sentence is only there to remind those people who do leave such comments to be polite.

@RegDwight That's definitely not forcing as understood by Communists, I agree.

3:23 PM

@MikeVaughan That question is just a day old.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

It was just the first example I found.

Is headline-like capitalisation the new fashion on ELU?

22

Q: Use of "I", "we" and the passive voice in a scientific thesis

When the first person voice is used in scientific writing it is mostly used in the first person plural, as scientific papers almost always have more than one co-author, such as "We propose a new method to study cell differentiation in nematodes." Often the "we" also includes the reader ...

writing personal-pronouns style passive-voice mathematics

6

Q: Style Question: Use of "we" vs. "I" vs. passive voice in a dissertation

As I'm not a native speaker and just finishing my dissertation in Computer Science, I wonder what style I should be using. In German (my native tongue) most dissertations, school-books and scientific writing use third person or passive voice to sound 'objective'. I know that passive voice in Eng...

writing-style passive-voice

How come there's not a single close vote?

> A Word that Means: “to adapt or improve to conform to a higher standard”?
> Other Expression For “Off The Top Of My Head”

@Vitaly Propose an edit. Instant +2.

3:28 PM

@RegDwight No, you.

@Vitaly I have enough +2s already, thank you.

Hear that, @Robusto?

Why should Robusto care about communist rep, if he can't even be bothered to care about the capitalizationist one. His hobby is throwing stuff at walls; checking if any of it sticks is a hobby for hoi polloi.

4:07 PM

Gotta go. Seeyall.

4:40 PM

Poo.

5:03 PM

(moved)

amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Women-Religion-North-America/dp/…

@Vitaly Glad to see I'm not the only one who's bothered by excessive capitalization.

@Vitaly Wow.

@Vitaly Hmm? Did I miss something?

@Martha He's just aiming for this:

Apr 23 at 23:51, by RegDwight

Congrats, here's your non-sequitur-of-the-day award.

5:10 PM

@Martha No. I am just amazed at the wide diversity of encyclopedias.

Ok, well, I edited the really excessively capitalized question title, so no 2 points for you on that one; but if you want to fix the 'A Word that Means...' question, have at it. (That one could use some formatting fixes for the question text, too, so it should be easier to hit the minimum-edit threshold.)

I love the Korean carrot salad, which was invented in the USSR, and which is neither Soviet nor Korean.

And which originally had cabbage instead of carrot.

Arg... I hate it when people necro really old, useless questions with answers that are completely irrelevant.

Is this a good migration candidate?

1

A: How would you say "Wrote for Latin population"?

Perhaps "He addressed his work to the common people of Italy" or similar?

5:31 PM

@MrHen You mean to Writers? Dunno. I can interpret it as either a single-word-request (and thus on-topic) and as a writing critique (and thus off-topic and migrate-able).

@Martha I think the vibe is much more, "What is a better way to write this?"

"However, I do not like: "for the Latin populace"."

If its a single word request, it should be tagged as such.

And it is his sentence; this is an editing request

He isn't asking about a particular word, so I don't think it words as a single-word-request

Possibly a phrase-request?

But I am asking, not telling. It seems a good borderline.

I think 'when in doubt, leave it alone' is a good policy.

@Martha In this case, the user seems to be prone to asking borderline editing questions.

I think he'd get more help out of Writers

5:35 PM

amazon.com/Water-Encyclopedia-Second-Frits-Leeden/dp/0873711203

@Vitaly And... ? :P

On that note, I'll try to go and do something fun. Cya.

Ugh. I wish I could collapse big-ass links.

@Martha But yeah, I agree.

I tend to over-organize.

Here we go:

3

Q: What is the purpose of jargon?

In just about every job, group, or occupation, there is a kind of special language. For example, the itinerant salesman who comes knocking at our door and when we take a peep, they start on a barrage of words and "technical terms" that we can't understand, but to them, it's plain and clear. Wha...

slang jargon word-usage

That is a better close candidate. :P

@MrHen We'll just have to make you a moderator in the next round of elections (whenever that will be), and then you can over-organize to your heart's content. :D

@Martha Heh. I have no desire to moderate; I spend too much time here with the tools I already have :P

5:42 PM

@MrHen I'm not sure I agree: it's subjective, sure, but -- as a couple of the answers demonstrate -- it's an answerable subjective, and thus I think allowable under the "good subjective" guidelines.

@Martha Good subjective? I missed that memo.

6:00 PM

Hey guys, what's going on?

Stack Overflow Blog: Good Subjective, Bad Subjective

Posted by Robert Cartaino on September 29th, 2010

Stack Exchange is about questions with objective, factual answers. We’ve been crystal clear about this for as long as I can remember, even back to the earliest, pre-beta days of Stack Overflow. It’s right there in the standard Stack Exchange FAQ:

What kind of questions should I not ask here?

Avoid asking questions that are subjective, argumentative, or require extended discussion. This is not a discussion board, this is a place for questions that can be answered!

Thus, questions that are not answerable — discussions, debates, opinions — should be closed as subjective. It seems simple enough: Fact good; opinion and discussion bad. But why? …

@MikeVaughan I resent your implication that something is going on.

`Haha

6:18 PM

@MikeVaughan where is "h" in your keyboard?

Nowhere near the backtick, if that's why you're asking.

eh

is there any cheats to increase reputation?

f7 + enter , for example

@zizi Uh, no. As endlessly entertaining as this site is, it's still not a game.

but seems so

like hell

you pretend that you are doing a project here

@MrHen: I don't understand your question.

0

Q: How does "each" change "are" to "is"?

Relevant: 'Each' with plural or singular verb and What should I use between “triple” vs. “all”? The answers in the linked question don't quite help me. Specifically, what happens with this case: My three pens are green. Each of my three pens are green. Each of my three pens is ...

grammaticality verbs grammatical-number

You are a native speaker, arencha?

6:24 PM

@MrHen you linked the questions wrong

Both answers to this question:

0

Q: 'Each' with plural or singular verb

A source says that the word "each" should always be followed by a singular noun, but however I look at it in this sentence it just doesn't seem to fit: foo comprises of multiple binary programs that each performs a single task. Should it be "performs" or "perform"?

say that each is singular.

What else is there to say?

@RegDwight Both of the answers I got were easier for me to understand.

@RegDwight kiam's does not, actually

Which is what confused me

I... I just don't understand how one could possibly construct "Each of my three pens are green" and be happy with it, even as a non-native speaker.

No offense.

I honestly don't understand.)))

@RegDwight You grew up in a different region?

Kiamlaluno's examples are the really interesting part.

But the default situation is that each is singular.

6:35 PM

The big "ah..." moment was this: "Each is green."

Precisely. So it would be more interesting to ask, how come it's "They each have their own personality."

My sentence compilation unit thinks of "each of" as unimportant and downgrades its impact on things like verbs

You can't downgrade the impact of the subject of a sentence.

@RegDwight Right. In this case, "they" trumps "each"

Which I find stupid. We are talking about multiple objects; use the appropriate verb

It seems like "Each of my pens is green" is a causality of applying rules for the sake of rules and ignoring the actual purpose and meaning of the sentence

I'm not following.

I mean, I get what you're saying, I just don't agree.

6:38 PM

"All of my pens are green." "These pens are green." "All three pens are green." "My pens are green."

"Each of my pens are green" has the exact same meaning and formation

Each is green. Each pen is green. Each of my pens is green. Each of my beautiful pens I bought yesterday at Sotheby's is green.

Each is singular.

The only difference is that "each" has a special rule

That's not a special rule. It's a different word.

@RegDwight "Each of these" should be plural

"One of these" should be singular

No.

How come one is allowed to be singular, but each isn't?

The subject of the sentence is each, not pens.

You are singling out one pen.

6:41 PM

@RegDwight Because one is talking about about a group of things and the other is talking about a single thing

@RegDwight Not in the sense of "each of these pens"

It's just that one singles out a particular pen, while each singles out any pen you choose.

@RegDwight Each "singles" out every pen

It doesn't make sense

I mean, I am not disagreeing that the rule exists

So why is everybody singular?

But I think it is silly rule that isn't helping anything

Why is everyone singular?

6:42 PM

I'm not singular

@MrHen It's not a rule arbitrarily invented by some stupid grammarian somewhere.

It's a rule that has evolved naturally.

@RegDwight A unit can be discussed as a single object

You can't object to such a rule like that.

"Each of these pens" is not doing that

@RegDwight Natural is not the same as smart

You can't approach language on the grounds of logic.

@MrHen Nobody is saying that natural is the same as smart.

6:43 PM

@RegDwight Sure I can. I can think any rule is stupid.

@MrHen But that is peeving, and hence off-topic. :P

Again, it's not a special rule.

@RegDwight Sure. I already agreed what the rule is. You were asking why it wasn't something I already knew which is the current topic.

That's like saying that he follows a special rule, because it's not the same as she.

@RegDwight "Each" gets a pass because of its earlier usage

And current usage.

And usage 500 years down the line, quite probably.

6:45 PM

@RegDwight He could have a special rule. We are not talking about he.

Then what is the point?

@RegDwight Sure. The point is that "each"'s position and role in "Each of these pens is green" is functionally equivalent to "All of these pens are green."

Some words may have special rules, except this one doesn't and yet you just don't like it.

They perform the same purpose and have the same meaning.

@MrHen No. Not functionally.

6:46 PM

@RegDwight Er, I am not intending to quabble about specific terms. If "function" is a linguistic keyword use something else

I mean, I get your point

I just think it is a stupid rule.

Many and much perform the same purpose and have the same meaning, too. And yet, you can't use them interchangeably.

@RegDwight "Many of these pens" is completely different... ya?

@MrHen I am talking about many vs much.

I am not tracking.

They both mean the exact same thing.

Yet you can't use them interchangeably.

Same with all vs each.

And there are probably hundreds of other examples, too.

6:48 PM

@RegDwight That isn't really my point, though.

Of course it is.)))

Your point is, and I quote, that if two words have "perform the same purpose and have the same meaning", then they should function identically.

My point is the opposite: You can use them interchangeably (over here).

So treat them the same.

Hold on a sec.

Now it's my time to not understand.

Holding. ;)

You mean that in your back of the woods, "Each of my pens are green" is grammatical?

6:50 PM

(To be clear, I am not intending to sound "upset". I am just expressing opinions.)

@RegDwight It probably wouldn't be called out.

A-ha!

Okay, now we're talking.

If someone sat down and looked it up they would certainly find the rule

@RegDwight Eh?

english.stackexchange.com/questions/3368/…

oh boy, why have I been busy instead of having fun with the rest of you

what have you smoked, EL&U?

@MrHen Well, if something is grammatical in your dialect, then it's grammatical in your dialect. Go ahead and use it. Just don't expect it to be seen as part of standard English, but other than that, use it.

oh boy?

6:53 PM

@Fx Yeah, you missed out all the fun.

@RegDwight That isn't very satisfying. And there isn't any way for me to know if I have the exception or if is a dialectical thing.

@MrHen Well, you could ask.

But as it stands, your question is asking everything except what you really should be asking.)))

I mean, look how long it took me to understand what you're really after.

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May '1111

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

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