English Language Learners

I am great, thanks. I have a question regarding the writing English.

8:46 AM

Yes?

In this sentence: "She became shy and said, 'Well you know what I want,"' Mr Tatford said.

And?

I think the double quote should be like this: "She became shy and said, 'Well you know what I want,'" Mr Tatford said.

Ah, I see. You're asking which quote you should use.

You can use either.

I think I would add a comma after Well, though.

As the single quote should be under the double quote in the sentence.

Let me explain again in a much better way.

8:49 AM

The more obvious problem is: Who said that line?

Ah, I see.

@user62015 Sometimes, I do that, too.

But I'd like to suggest we'd better avoid such nesting.

Please check what the writer did. He used the double quote first and under that he used the single quote that is fine but he closed the double quote under the single quote. Please check this again ("She became shy and said, 'Well you know what I want,"' Mr Tatford said.)

That's weird.

But I think in this sentence the double quote should have been closed after the single one as the single quote is under the double quote.

Source: mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/…

Let me know, if I have made myself clear and you are able to understand the sentence.

my question*

I think the original nests it properly.

DQ She became shy and said, SQ Well you know what I want, SQ DQ Mr Tatford said.

Here: dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-2839781/…

Checking the response.

Please wait.

I am also saying the same thing.

DQ She became shy and said, SQ Well you know what I want, SQ DQ Mr Tatford said.

8:57 AM

Yes, www.mirror.co.uk seems to switch the last pair of SQ DQ. Probably a typo.

Dailymail.co.uk published the same news 9 hours earlier.

Yes. But it was again in the same article, so I just wanted to check.

In any case, minor errors like this happen all the time. They have to write against time. :-)

I agree.

I just wanted to check to make me understand what I have learnt yet :-)

Could I ask you something?

Yes?

As I have just chatted with you in the last five minutes. How many mistakes have I made? I understand that it is not a professional question but I would love to hear the answer. :-)

If you don't mind.

9:05 AM

I didn't notice any errors. Hmm...

In chat rooms, I usually relax the grammar a bit. (Both for myself and others)

No written English errors as well?

I think my grammar is fine but I do have little bit issues with the written English.

I think the grammar is okay, but some of the usage sounds a little off. For example, "as the single quote is under the double quote".

"Let me know, if I have made myself clear [...]" -- I think it's better without the comma.

@user62015 I think your grammar is quite fine!

Okay. I think this is because of my local language works this way. So I also think the same way in English.

I agree!

But frankly, I didn't notice them the first time.

Thanks.

9:11 AM

Hehe!

I am done for the day. If I find something to ask I will come back and take your precious time.

:-).

Hahaha! Okay!

Bye.

Bye! See you later!

Anonymous

2:16 PM

@user62015 It must be hard to spot the difference.

Anonymous

Between '" and "'

3:28 PM

@snailboat It's really difficult to notice!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I suppose that in print it might sometimes be indistinguishable

I couldn't see it the first time I was asked!

The second time as well!

> I just finished to read the book.
http://ell.stackexchange.com/q/40022/3281

I can think of a weird context for that! Like a game show on Japanese TV. :-)

Anonymous

"I just finished to read the book" is, of course, grammatical, but since finish doesn't take a to-infinitival complement, it can only be an adjunct, and once again most likely an adjunct of purpose

Anonymous

So it has a rather different meaning

Anonymous

And is rather unlikely as an actual sentence

Anonymous

3:32 PM

It's ungrammatical with the intended meaning

nods

> (wizard) Thanks to my magic, the sun is rising at 6:00 tomorrow!
(wizard's apprentice) But this time of year, the sun rises at 7:00!
(wizard) See how powerful my magic is - tomorrow, the sun is rising a whole hour ahead of its usual schedule/timetable!
http://ell.stackexchange.com/a/40130/3281

Townspeople: Is the sun going to rise tomorrow? We've already paid you for that.

Hee

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, good work!

Anonymous

Contextualization is fun :-)

Anonymous

I just realized Mark Liberman failed to italicize one of his wills. For shame!

Anonymous

(I am of course kidding and have the utmost respect for professor Liberman :-)

Anonymous

3:38 PM

I wish the mistakes I made were that small.

Hehe!

Anonymous

Language is fun, though.

Anonymous

I commented on StoneyB's answer on that other question, too.

With lots of nuances every corner I turn!

I think Carter's answer is not that bad.

Anonymous

I'm listening to English music

3:41 PM

(In the sun rises question.)

Anonymous

And the words aren't all automatically registering with 100% accuracy

Anonymous

I can hear it fine

Anonymous

But it's a reminder not to feel too bad that I can't perform that feat in Japanese, either :-)

Unfamiliar songs are probably the most difficult things to listen to.

Anonymous

Can you link me to Carter's answer? I don't have the tab open

Anonymous

3:42 PM

@DamkerngT. It depends on the singer, I think.

> ell.stackexchange.com/a/40129/3281

Anonymous

And most likely on the listener.

Anonymous

Some songs are crystal clear.

I think it was deleted because it was too short.

Anonymous

Hmm.

3:43 PM

@snailboat Indeed! Some songs come with a really simple lyric, but they can be really hard to get.

Anonymous

The problem is that it doesn't really answer when to use the simple present to express future time.

Oh, true. It's an incomplete answer.

Good evening Damkerng, Snailboat!

@CopperKettle I added another line to your wizard story above. :-)

Good evening!

I have a sentence " Not only the food should look good in a frame but also the dishes, and the interior." Is this use of GOOD okay?

A line to my wizard story? That's wizard, lemme look at it. (0:

3:45 PM

It sounds very casual

I've found this "Good should never be used as an adverb (modifying a verb). "

towson.edu/ows/good__well.htm

I think good is different.

Here, it seems to modify the verb look: The food should look good.

Look good and smell good are similar, imo.

So I wonder if "look good" is grammatical or erroneous

Actually, trying to proofread this:
http://lang-8.com/1003120/journals/105646754993606511927822861510802102924

3:48 PM

I think it's grammatical. He is strong. He looks strong. He looks good. The food looks good.

I think "The food looks well" is a bad sentence.

Maybe because look here is used as a copula, instead of is

Yes, I remember making a mistake with "The beer tastes well"

Anonymous

Yes, good doesn't modify look, it's a predicative complement

I think PEU must have an entry for this.

a predicative complement! thanks, Snailboat!

Anonymous

In "The beer tastes good", good is an adjective doing something adjectives normally do

Anonymous

3:50 PM

Same with "looks good"

Anonymous

Predicative complement is Huddleston & Pullum (2002)'s term

Anonymous

Let me log into Lang-8

Oh, and with "Hans did good on his test", the "good" is no longer a predicative complement but an adverb, and is out of place.

Anonymous

Ah, it's not public, so I can't see what the original sentence is

Anonymous

@CopperKettle Right, that's the non-standard use of good as an adverb

3:52 PM

@CopperKettle I think it's acceptable only in informal occasions.

Her original sentence is " Not only the food should good look in a frame but also the dishes, and the interior."

Anonymous

> Not only the food should look good in a frame but also the dishes, and the interior.

Anonymous

Got it!

Anonymous

You have Quirk et al. 1985, right? Not H&P 2002

Anonymous

In Quirk et al's terms, it's as you said, look is a copular verb taking a subject complement

3:52 PM

She misplaced the "good" because in Russian you can place it everywhere

Thanks again! A subject complement.

In Russian, the "good" is an adverb in that sentence.

Oh!

Looks how? Looks good.

хорошо (HOROSHO)

In Thai: [it-look-be-how?] [it-look-good] :-)

(0: you have a strict word order in Thai?

Not very strict, things can float around, a bit like in English.

[look-be-how-that-it?]

Anonymous

3:56 PM

Old English had much freer word order

In Russian, you can say: It look good, It good look, Good it look, Look it good,

Anonymous

English has been losing its inflectional morphology and relying more on order

Anonymous

So now when you put stuff in the wrong order, it often sounds "poetic" or archaic

Yes, I like when poets do that

Anonymous

Modern poets don't do it quite as much, though

3:57 PM

I like poems too! Though, I'm not very good at it.

Anonymous

Me either. Poetry is hard.

Anonymous

One of my friends writes Classical Japanese poems as part of studying the language.

Anonymous

I can't even manage English poems.

Anonymous

I mean, I write lyrics, but they're terrible.

It sounds like fun anyway, though, writing a poem. :D

3:58 PM

Here's an example of changed word order:

Some three, or five, or seven, and thirty years;
A Roman nose; a dimpling double-chin;
**Dark eyes and shy** that, ignorant of sin,
Are yet acquainted, it would seem, with tears;

Anonymous

Oh, nice!

mypoeticside.com/show-classic-poem-12600

Sounds really poetic!

Yep, I like it too

Anonymous

In his era, it was still more common

Anonymous

3:59 PM

Not that people have ever stopped playing with word order.

He was a nice poet, and a prototype for Long John SIlver in Treasure Island

Anonymous

I did not know that!

(0:

I composed a mock sonnet some time ago

Anonymous

Oh! Cookie Monster posted bounties

Oh, sonnets sound great!

Anonymous

4:01 PM

Nov 17 at 13:08, by snailboat

"What is the last thing you ordered that you had to go and pick up from the place you ordered it from?"

Anonymous

That was my version of "takeaway"

Anonymous

Which is really funny because last night my friend said to me "for pickup"

Anonymous

And I thought, "Hey! That's slightly more concise."

I remember that takewaway question!

Anonymous

I can always express myself in English, but sometimes the way I express myself isn't very good :-)

Anonymous

4:02 PM

@CopperKettle Mock as in "not a real sonnet"? As in a comic sonnet?

Anonymous

What sort of poem is it?

Anonymous

I wrote sonnets in high school.

yes, comic sonnet

lang-8.com/1017887/journals/…

It sounds idiomatic, but the only way to make sense of it in traditionally grammar is only to call it an adverb.

Anonymous

They are, thankfully, now completely and irrecoverably destroyed.

4:03 PM

heh

(0:

Oh, I can see your entry!

Yes, it's an open entry

Where is the upvote button on that page? :D

Anonymous

Hee.

No upvote there (0:

Anonymous

4:04 PM

Very nice!

Thanks! (0:

Oh, Cocopop was in the comment there too!

Pinched "Lo! Thus" from Shakespeare

Yes, he helps a lot in proofreading sentences

@CopperKettle A-ha! I only know "Lo and behold!" :-)

Lo generally means "Listen!"

Lo, thus, by day my limbs, by night my mind,
For thee, and for myself, no quiet find.

shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/27.html

Anonymous

4:07 PM

@CopperKettle "Lo(ok)!"

Neat! Shakespeare is online, too!

Yes, Shakespeare is past copyright date (0:

Another one:
Lo, thus, as prostrate, "In the dust I write
My heart's deep languor and my soul's sad tears."
Yet why evoke the spectres of black night
To blot the sunshine of exultant years?

gutenberg.org/files/1238/1238-h/1238-h.htm

Anonymous

> lo with close ō, prob. a shortened form of lōke (OE. lóca), imperative of look v.

Oh, didn't know that!

Anonymous

> Used to direct attention to the presence or approach of something, or to what is about to be said; = Look! See! Behold! Freq. in phr. lo and behold (usu. jocular).

Anonymous

4:09 PM

(OED)

It's probably because I assumed behold to stand for look and hence lo, for listen (0:

> If you know the speaker attended a campus that included several schools, you'd be more likely to ask, "Which school were you in?"
http://ell.stackexchange.com/a/40133/3281

Hmm... Can a campus include several schools?

Anonymous

@CopperKettle Well, it's not actually a stand-in for look

Anonymous

As the definition says, it can be used to draw attention to what you're about to say

Anonymous

So I didn't mean to disagree with what you said :-)

Anonymous

4:16 PM

@DamkerngT. Umm.

Anonymous

The varying terminology for schools, colleges, universities, and so forth always gets me.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. futureowls.rice.edu/futureowls/Schools.asp

Ahh... Their schools sound like faculties!

Anonymous

Rice is one university

Anonymous

It has multiple schools

Anonymous

4:19 PM

The Shepherd School of Music is one of the schools on their campus

Anonymous

There are seven others

Anonymous

I think.

nods -- I agree.

Anonymous

To make matters worse, they're also divided into colleges!

user116848

Copperkettle left. I enjoy his talk.

user116848

4:29 PM

Hi guys

Anonymous

Hello!

user116848

They put a twist in the Arrow series and they have a new character named Cupid (she)...[chuckles softly]

user116848

:D

Anonymous

A projectile-themed cast!

user116848

Yes, it is. Very good way to put it :-)

user116848

4:41 PM

@DamkerngT. How are you buddy?

user116848

@snailboat How are your snails these days?

Anonymous

They're good. I cleaned their cage recently, but they seem to have gotten over it :-)

user116848

Nice!

user116848

4:58 PM

Here is a website that you can use to find any soundtrack in series---> tunefind.com

user116848

It is awesome.

user116848

I am using it to find a french song.

user116848

♪ ♪ Ne me quitte pas ♪ ♪

Hi! Hi Arrowfar.

I've one question

user116848

Ask away!

user116848

5:04 PM

Hi!

I never was as hungry as today. - or I never HAVE BEEN as hungry as today?

user116848

types

In describing an event (a good meal) that has already passed

user116848

> I have never been as hungry as today.

user116848

Oh, a past...

user116848

5:05 PM

types

Yes, the trick is that she desribes a meal that she had several hours ago

user116848

> I never was as hungry as today.

Thanks!

user116848

It describes the past event.

Anonymous

@CopperKettle The unmarked position for never is following an auxiliary if one is present.

user116848

5:08 PM

@CopperKettle have never shows uptill now or very recent.

Anonymous

"I never slept."
"I have never slept."
"I should never have slept."

Anonymous

Hmm, figuring out the unmarked position of an adverb in an auxiliary sequence is hard.

Anonymous

Anyway, you can say "I never was" or "I never should have" or "I never have", but I think they're marked.

Anonymous

There's probably more to the question.

Anonymous

If you asked on ELL about the position of never, you might get some good answers.

Anonymous

5:10 PM

But it seems very difficult for me to describe accurately off the top of my head.

Anonymous

Or ELU, wherever.

user116848

'From the top off my head' and 'off the top of my head' are both okay, right snail?

Anonymous

I assume that first off is a typo for of

Anonymous

"From the top of my head", I think, has the literal meaning you'd expect, while "off the top of my head" has idiomatic meaning

Anonymous

So if you search for the former phrase

Anonymous

5:13 PM

You'll find it used in expressions like "From the top of my head to the tips of my toes"

Anonymous

Meaning "my entire body"

Anonymous

Whereas "off the top of my head" means "[answering] without taking time to think or research [the answer]"

Anonymous

So while both are grammatical they don't seem interchangeable to me

user116848

Oh, so we can't use 'From the top of my head' to mean without taking time to think or research.

user116848

I used to think it was okay too.

user116848

5:16 PM

It has a literal meaning...I see.

Anonymous

That's how it seems to me.

Anonymous

I tend to answer questions here in ELL chat based on my intuition and without doing a great deal of research

user116848

Understandable.

Anonymous

Just based on my knowledge as a native speaker and whatever little knowledge I've gained from studying linguistics and other research

Anonymous

So when I make an observation like this, it's not intended as an absolute statement―you could still do research to see if anyone uses the phrase that way

user116848

5:19 PM

It's okay. Your answers are good. At least to me.

user116848

They make sense too.

user116848

Oh, that french song is very old:

user116848

►

user116848

5:34 PM

Oh, she slaps him at the end! :-)

I'm good. Hello!

user116848

Oh, Hiya!

user116848

:-)

user116848

French make some good lyrics too!

Some French songs are really nice.

user116848

5:44 PM

> I will invent for you
Meaningless words
That you will understand
I will speak to you
Of these lovers
That we've seen twice
Their hearts embracing each other
I will tell you
The story of this king
Who died of not being able
To get to know you

user116848

> I will offer you
Pearls made of rain
Coming from countries
Where it never rains
I will work the earth
Until I die
To cover your body
With gold and light
I will create a kingdom for you
Where love will be the king
Where love will be the law
Where you will be the queen

Taken from http://lyricstranslate.com/en/ne-me-quitte-pas-dont-leave-me.html-0#ixzz3Jow3Svk1

user116848

After such emotional lyrics a slap looked appropriate :-)

user116848

I heard this song in none other than Person of Interest.

user116848

Episode 19

I'm off the headphones at the moment.

user116848

5:51 PM

Oh :)

Anonymous

I'm going to be taking a practice test soon!

user116848

Best of luck for your test!

user116848

When?

Anonymous

The actual test is in two weeks

@snailboat Yay!

Anonymous

5:56 PM

My study buddy gave me a zillion practice tests, so if I don't take at least one, they'll get all frowny on me.