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00:00 - 07:0016:00 - 19:00

user116848
4:47 PM
@snailboat We have a choice of using "---" or "....." for pause in a sentence, right? Or is there some rule? Because I use only "...." as a break/pause in sentence.
 
Anonymous
Are you talking about in formal writing or in chat?
 
user116848
In chat and in formal writing both.
 
Anonymous
Neither of those is acceptable in formal writing.
 
Anonymous
You can't use arbitrarily long sequences of dashes and periods
 
Anonymous
An ellipsis consists of three dots (optionally four when the fourth represents a following period)
 
Anonymous
4:49 PM
An em-dash is sometimes represented, for historical reasons, with two dashes--like this--although today you can use an actual em-dash instead―like this
 
Anonymous
Writing "....." is only acceptable in informal chat
 
Anonymous
you know....where people type like this.....
 
user116848
Yeah, I do. I see.
 
user116848
@snailboat But there is no en or em dash in my keyboard. How do you write it?
 
user116848
I have only hyphen '--'
 
Anonymous
4:57 PM
That's fine, -- is quite common still
 
Anonymous
You can write — and – if HTML is available
 
Anonymous
So that works in questions and answers
 
Anonymous
Here in chat, I used Japanese input to type ―
 
user116848
I see. nods.
 
Anonymous
― is a dash that looks a lot like an em-dash, but I think it's technically a different character
 
Anonymous
4:59 PM
I can't tell the difference though :-)
 
Anonymous
This is an em-dash: —
This is a quotation dash: ―
 
Anonymous
The one I typed is technically a quotation dash
 
Anonymous
But I use them interchangeably because they look identical to me
 
user116848
And when I write small stories, can I always use ellipses '....' to represent pause/break in a dialogues? It seems easy enough for me.
 
user116848
Or will it look unprofessional?
 
5:01 PM
Some apps I use convert -- to an em-dash automatically, among other things. :-)
 
Anonymous
It can be appropriate sometimes. I'd be more likely to use it at the end of dialogue to indicate that someone's trailing off.
 
Anonymous
The four-dot version is only likely in academic writing
 
Anonymous
An ellipsis has only three dots
 
nods
 
Anonymous
The fourth dot comes from wanting to show that you've quoted something that ends with a period, and you're retaining the period
 
Anonymous
5:02 PM
In this case, the fourth dot is optional
 
Anonymous
When you're using it to show a pause . . . something like this, for example, the fourth dot cannot be used
 
Some writers also use -- to signal interruption besides the ellipsis.
 
user116848
@snailboat Ahh.... I didn't know pauses must only be three dots.
 
user116848
Who remembers all this?
 
user116848
It is very technical.
 
Anonymous
5:06 PM
Then ignore it all and always write three dots.
 
The three dots are actually just one character in Unicode.
 
Anonymous
If you write lots of dots, you'll come across as uneducated
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. But many people prefer to roll their own ellipsis…rather than use this one
 
nods
 
Anonymous
テスト…… ← The dots should be middle-aligned here
 
Anonymous
5:08 PM
But they're not...
 
Anonymous
Japanese usually uses six dots.
 
I wonder why, but they must have their reasons.
 
Anonymous
Six dots take up two full blocks in Japanese.
 
Anonymous
So they end up the same size as a double dash
 
Ahh... That makes sense.
 
Anonymous
5:09 PM
Which is also used in modern Japanese writing――like this, although the dashes should be a single unbroken line
 
user116848
> Um....Really?
 
user116848
I used four dots here.
 
user116848
Does it look uneducated?
 
Anonymous
Yes.
 
user116848
Just asking
 
Anonymous
5:10 PM
An ellipsis consists of three dots.
 
user116848
So it should be
 
user116848
> Um...Really?
 
user116848
Or
 
user116848
> Um. . .Really?
 
Anonymous
when you use lots of dots..........you look like your just typing whatever not worrying too much about stuff like orthography.........
 
user116848
5:11 PM
Second one looks odd.
 
Anonymous
Yeah, that second one doesn't look too good.
 
It should be like this:
 
Anonymous
If I put space between the dots, I put spaces around them, too: "Um . . . really?"
 
> Um . . . Really?
 
user116848
I see.
 
user116848
5:12 PM
And my first one will do?
 
I don't like it much when it has not a space in between.
 
user116848
okay
 
Anonymous
I don't think there's a strict rule here, but I wouldn't capitalize really there
 
nods
 
user116848
nods. But we capitalize after some punctuations like a question marks "?"
 
user116848
5:15 PM
I found this
 
Anonymous
A question mark is used to mark the end of a question.
 
Anonymous
Most commonly, this is at the end of a sentence.
 
Anonymous
You capitalize the following word because it begins a new sentence.
 
Anonymous
However, when reporting speech, the sentence may continue:
 
Anonymous
5:16 PM
> "What was that?" he asked.
 
Anonymous
Here, the question mark indicates the end of a question, but the quote is part of a larger sentence. That is, he asked is part of the same sentence as the quote.
 
Anonymous
So you don't capitalize he.
 
One weird thing is that it's really rare to find a character in any novels I've read saying things like Um.. Eww... Ah... and so on.
 
user116848
Yeah. Like in all stories.
 
Anonymous
So we can see that, strictly speaking, there is no rule to capitalize a word following a question mark
 
Anonymous
5:17 PM
It's simply that in most cases the end of a question is also the end of a sentence.
 
user116848
nods
 
Anonymous
thepunctuationguide appears to be overly restrictive
 
Anonymous
It looks okay, though.
 
user116848
Yeah, it seems strict there.
 
user116848
Is this also okay
 
user116848
5:21 PM
> Um---really?
 
Anonymous
You're using too many dashes again.
 
user116848
So two then.
 
user116848
> Um--really?
 
Anonymous
You can use as many as you like informally
 
Anonymous
But two dashes is the usual substitute for an em-dash
 
user116848
5:22 PM
Okay. I am starring some stuff here :-)
 
user116848
Thanks.
 
user116848
But the good thing about this is people still understand what we are trying to say, even when we aren't very careful about this stuff.
 
Though in some fonts, an em-dash could look more like it's about the same width as the width of three hyphens, we'd better stick with writing only two hyphens and let someone else or a program converts them to em-dashes later.
Surewecantalkortypelikethistoo Itssonaturalinmyfirstlanguage
 
user116848
Still I try to improve myself.
 
user116848
@DamkerngT. :D
 
Anonymous
5:26 PM
The two dashes thing isn't a really strict rule.
 
Anonymous
The three dots thing is a bit stricter.
 
Anonymous
People use dashes a little bit differently from one another as a matter of style
 
Anonymous
But if you just get in the habit of typing two dashes, you don't really need to worry much about that.
 
nods -- Douglas Adams also seemed to like to write an ellipsis after an em-dash here and there. It happens often enough that it's noticeable.
 
user116848
> For example, when Sue says "I never drink . . . wine", the implication is that she does drink something else—such as vodka.
 
user116848
5:31 PM
Ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ἔλλειψις, élleipsis, "omission" or "falling short") is a series of dots that usually indicates an intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section from a text without altering its original meaning. Depending on their context and placement in a sentence, ellipses can also indicate an unfinished thought, a leading statement, a slight pause, or a nervous or awkward silence. Aposiopesis is the use of an ellipsis to trail off into silence—for example: "But I thought he was . . ." When placed at the beginning or end of a sentence, the ellipsis...
 
user116848
So, in the above sentence can I use 'comma' instead of em-dash?
 
user116848
Like this
 
user116848
> For example, when Sue says "I never drink . . . wine", the implication is that she does drink something else, such as vodka.
 
user116848
"...else (,) such as vodka"
 
Anonymous
Probably.
 
Anonymous
5:33 PM
I kind of like the dash, though.
 
user116848
Yeah, me too. But I'll have to use '--' though.
 
user116848
Also I am used to 'comma' in those situations.
 
user116848
Dash looks good though.
 
user116848
A dash is a punctuation mark that is similar to a hyphen or minus sign, but differs from both of these symbols primarily in length and function. The most common versions of the dash are the en dash (–) and the em dash (—), named for the length of a typeface's lower-case n and upper-case M respectively. Usage varies both within English and in other languages, but the usual convention in printed English text is: Either version may be used to denote a break in a sentence or to set off parenthetical statements (ideally with intradocument consistency). Style and usage guides vary, but often in this...
 
user116848
Oh, I found this:
 
user116848
5:37 PM
4
Q: Spaces for Ellipses

StanI find some opinions about the rules for ellipses are conflicting. Here are some conflicting issues: Q1: Are the spaces between the dots in a ellipsis necessary, i.e. dot-space-dot-space-dot? (Yes.) Grammar Girl's article . . . for everyday purposes, it's fine to use regular spaces between...

 
user116848
2
Q: Space before three dots?

Frank Possible Duplicate: What is the proper way of using triple dots and spaces before/after them? Should there be a space before three dots? Examples: I don't know if this is good... I don't know if this is good ... Also, as a status message intended for a software user: Writ...

 
user116848
Nice.
 
user116848
I gave it +1
 
user116848
:)
 
Anonymous
I don't have an easy way of typing a thin space, so I'm usually too lazy . . .
 
Anonymous
5:40 PM
But not too lazy . . .
 
Anonymous
To my eye, they both look about the same, anyway :-)
 
This reminds me that in the old days, we used to have to type two spaces after each and every period at the end of sentence. I think sometimes I still see people type two spaces after a period.
 
Anonymous
In Japanese, where …… is the accepted standard in print, in informal chat people often type things like ・・・
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Yeah, I usually type two spaces.
 
Anonymous
In monospace fonts it matters.
 
5:42 PM
nods
 
Anonymous
If you do it on Stack Exchange, your spaces will get collapsed into a single space
 
Anonymous
Since, well, HTML doesn't distinguish between ​ ​ and ​ ​ :-)
 
Ah! I didn't know that.
 
Anonymous
Nonetheless, I do it habitually
 
nods
 
Anonymous
5:44 PM
It's a hard habit to break.
 
Anonymous
But I have no motivation to break it, so it's okay :-)
 
I tried typing two spaces a few times but it slowed me down when typing, and I'm not a fast typist.
 
user116848
Oh, so there is this 'Chicago ellipsis' too :-)
 
Anonymous
What's that?
 
user116848
Never heard its name before.
 
5:45 PM
Chicago Manual of Style, maybe?
 
user116848
I found it in tchrist's answer above.
 
Anonymous
Ah
 
user116848
Yeah, they are talking about Manual I think
 
Anonymous
Yeah, in context it clearly means the CMoS
 
Anonymous
I wouldn't say "Chicago ellipsis" by itself out of context, though
 
Anonymous
5:46 PM
I think only folks that are pretty into typography would be able to understand that phrase out of context
 
user116848
Yes...nods.
 
Anonymous
Over time, the spaced ellipsis . . . has grown on me
 
Anonymous
I think it tends to look nicer
 
It is cute, in a way.
 
Anonymous
I can see that :-)
 
Anonymous
5:50 PM
I never thought about it that way, though
 
Anonymous
@Arrowfar There are people who would say not to use two dashes--in place of an em-dash
 
Anonymous
But it's a really common practice.
 
. . . @__v
 
Anonymous
So I wouldn't worry much about it
 
Anonymous
Aww, a snail! :-)
 
5:51 PM
Hee
 
Anonymous
 
Hello!
 
Anonymous
This is Ponyo :-)
 
Oh, Ponyo!
Is this Ponyo from the sea, too? :-)
 
Anonymous
You might not be able to tell, but she has distinctive shell markings.
 
user116848
5:53 PM
@snailboat Cute name Ponyo! Sounds Japanese!
 
user116848
:-)
 
Anonymous
Well, Ponyo is a little land-mollusk, but she bit my hand on the way home!
 
Anonymous
@Arrowfar Like Ponyo from the Japanese animated film :-)
 
user116848
lol
 
Hah!
 
Anonymous
5:54 PM
Ponyo (崖の上のポニョ, Gake no Ue no Ponyo, literally "Ponyo on the Cliff"), initially titled in English as Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea, is a 2008 Japanese animated fantasy comedy film written and directed by Hayao Miyazaki of Studio Ghibli and Toho. It is Miyazaki's eighth film for Ghibli, and his tenth overall. The plot centers on a goldfish named Ponyo who befriends a five-year-old human boy, Sōsuke, and wants to become a human girl. The film has won several awards, including the Japan Academy Prize for Animation of the Year. It was released in Japan on July 19, 2008, in the US and Canada on August...
 
Anonymous
I was originally going to give her a different name, but my friend suggested Ponyo after she tried to eat my hand on the way home
 
Hehe!
 
user116848
Oh, I haven't watched that though. Still it looked Japanese to me!
 
user116848
:)
 
user116848
Like 'oyo'
 
user116848
5:56 PM
'Tokyo'
 
user116848
etc...
 
user116848
:-)
 
Anonymous
What is 'oyo'?
 
I grew up with ajinomoto!
 
user116848
@snailboat Nothing. A sound maybe.
 
Anonymous
5:56 PM
Aji-no-moto
 
Exactly!
 
Anonymous
Japanese has very basic phonotactics
 
Anonymous
("Phonotactics" are the rules for how sounds fit together)
 
Anonymous
You usually have consonant-vowel pairs like in Akihabara a.ki.ha.ba.ra
 
Anonymous
But ya, yu, and yo can follow consonants: Po.nyo
 
Anonymous
5:58 PM
In English, we can do that with words like cute, kyu
 
Anonymous
But we don't have yo following consonants
 
Anonymous
So we don't have anything like Tokyo
 
Anonymous
So we English speakers tend to say To.ki.o instead
 
user116848
Is this version okay too, that I use sometimes (without spaces anywhere):
 
user116848
14 mins ago, by Arrowfar
Yes...nods.
 
user116848
6:01 PM
Three dots, but no spaces anywhere.
 
Anonymous
Sure. My personal preference is for spaces, though.
 
user116848
It is not in the answer though that tchrist gave.
 
user116848
I see.
 
Anonymous
Spaces around or within ellipses are a matter of style
 
Anonymous
tchrist's answer is about style
 
Anonymous
6:02 PM
Mostly, anyway.
 
@Arrowfar Wait, do you really say "Yes, nods."?
 
Anonymous
His message was clearly an example of informal chat, something like
 
Anonymous
> Yes . . . nods
 
It's surely fine in chat.
 
Anonymous
Where the italics are supposed to represent an action rather than an utterance
 
user116848
6:03 PM
@DamkerngT. haha No. I wanted to say "Yes (break) nods"
 
Anonymous
No one says "nods"
 
Anonymous
Well, not no one. I mean, people who spend a lot of time online say things they pick up from typing.
 
Anonymous
I mean, my friends go around saying things like cry and sniffle
 
user116848
Yeah, I know. I don't italicize it sometimes.
 
LOL
 
Anonymous
6:04 PM
But this is of course considered slang and not universally accepted :-)
 
user116848
I know it is only the head movement lol
 
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