The h Bar

0celo7

4:00 PM

@ACuriousMind Yes...they are quite unwieldy

ArtOfCode

@JohnRennie spooooooky

DanielSank

@JohnRennie lolwut?

Xasel

what event by the way?(soory was away)

David Z

@JohnRennie I don't even ask anymore

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie He's not-so-alien :P

David Z

4:00 PM

anyway, let's get started

John Rennie

@ArtOfCode just dropped in. He normally attends to slap wrists ;-)

David Z

Welcome to our biweekly chat session everyone!

ArtOfCode

I got the 27-seconds notification too

DanielSank

::Starts engine::

David Z

Please keep unrelated discussion out of the room for the next hour

Here's the agenda for today's session:

1. Intro, welcome newcomers, site questions (5m)
2. Recent physics developments (10m)
3. Upcoming election and possible town hall chat (15m)
4. Goals of the site (30m)

DanielSank

4:01 PM

Hi, newcomers.

David Z

First things first, who's new to chat, new to chat sessions, or new to the site?

QuantumBrick

This is the first time I used this chat =)

DanielSank

Hi, @QuantumBrick :D

David Z

Glad you figured it out ;-) Welcome!

John Rennie

→ 1 message moved to Physics Meta

Milou

4:02 PM

hello, I'm new to all this.. i came here just because I was curious

David Z

Hi @Milou! Well, you are welcome to just lurk around and see what we talk about, or chime in if you like

John Rennie

→ 1 message moved to Physics Meta

Milou

thanks!

DanielSank

@Milou Welcome to our dungeon of random bad jokes and occasional physics.

David Z

We have these discussions every couple weeks to bring people together and to raise issues of general interest to the community

QuantumBrick

4:02 PM

Hey! Thanks. I'm not sure about the objectives of the chat... Is it just... to chat?

hahaha randomly?

0celo7

@Milou 90% of the discussion here is math.

John Rennie

But the interesting 10% is about physics :-)

David Z

@QuantumBrick Yeah, pretty much. It's like a social place. But we also use it for organized discussions sometimes.

ACuriousMind

@QuantumBrick Normally, yes, but these chat sessions are slightly more focused affairs, see the "agenda" DavidZ posted a bit earlier

DanielSank

Before @0celo7 goes about scaring off the n00bs, the discussion is dominated by math when the mathy people are around.

0celo7

4:03 PM

Math is scary?

David Z

@DanielSank a good point

DanielSank

Hey @Milou and @QuantumBrick, note that you can respond to specific messages by clicking the little arrow on the right of a message block.

David Z

OK, we are coming up on 5 minutes in so let's see what has been going on in the world of physics recently

DanielSank

If you mouse over a message, any message to which it is a response will be highlighted. This enormously helps follow the flow of conversation.

2

QuantumBrick

@DavidZ @ACuriousMind I see! I just saw DavidZ's agenda, too. Looks organised.

DanielSank

4:04 PM

@DavidZ we discovered something amazing at work.

QuantumBrick

@DanielSank I see now =)

David Z

@DanielSank oooh coool... are you going to tell us? lol

DanielSank

We've been measuring the spectral density of magnetic noise in our superconducting loops...

We found a bump at 1.2 GHz (or was it 1.4 GHz?).

Anyway, we had absolutely no idea what this could possibly be.

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank The noise that you repeatedly said someone else described as the "skelecton in the closet of your field"?

David Z

Hi @FrancescoS

DanielSank

4:06 PM

@ACuriousMind No. This is different.

Xasel

SO what's the main issues/talks of this session?

DanielSank

John went to a conference and showed the data, and someone immediately recognized it as a hyperfine transition in hydrogen.

David Z

and hi @AaryanDewan

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank oO Is there hydrogen in your loops?

David Z

@Xasel see the agenda post, it's at the top of the sidebar, on the right

DanielSank

4:06 PM

This is incredibly cool. We're seeing atomic transitions because the supercurrent in the qubits is coupling to hydrogen on the surface of the metal.

David Z

whoa, that is cool

ACuriousMind

neat

DanielSank

This was a total surprise and it could help us understand where the broadband part of the noise is coming from, which would be a huge deal.

John Rennie

@DanielSank 21cm line! That's 1.4Ghz.

DanielSank

^ That

Yes.

John Rennie

4:07 PM

Alien transmissions, clearly!

DanielSank

That is all.

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie Clickbait title for this discovery: "Google receiving alien transmission in a quantum AI lab."

user116211

Anyways, quick googling:

user116211

Quantum teleportation comes to Hefei and Calgary

David Z

@ACuriousMind hahaha

John Rennie

4:08 PM

In other news: cold fusion is back

user116211

Black Hole Hidden Within Its Own Exhaust

2

QuantumBrick

I have some news about what I'm working at, and for me they look pretty amazing... But maybe they'll be flagged as "mathy people like"

David Z

@JohnRennie yeah... I'm not sure what that will turn out to be. It could just be a reflection of the lack of science expertise of the congress

@QuantumBrick You can post it

Incidentally, I heard a rumor of another bump in LHC data at 650 GeV - probably just a statistical fluctuation, but I was surprised not to have heard anything about it before

DanielSank

@DavidZ My understanding was that it's a good idea for someone who doesn't absolutely suck at calorimetry to just check once and for all whether or not there's anything interesting...

@DavidZ Is that an interesting energy?

David Z

@DanielSank With the history this issue has, I doubt there will be any "once and for all" about it

user116211

4:12 PM

@DavidZ Maybe the Caltech News site might report that.

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank Everything is an interesting energy for the people grasping for supersymmetry ;)

David Z

@DanielSank not at all

But yeah, what ACM said

DanielSank

k

David Z

(ACM = @ACuriousMind for those who are not aware)

ACuriousMind

Haha, yes, that confused another user recently

user116211

4:13 PM

Thanks to vzn ;)

QuantumBrick

I've been working with the kerr hamiltonian, which is basically the harmonic oscillator squared. This map is nontrivial and exactly quantizable for times rational multiples of a revival time (the quantum map presents fractional revivals, which means it gets scrambled and them organizes itself again)...

David Z

@MAFIA36790 why Caltech?

QuantumBrick

But anyway, since it is exactly quantizable, we can compare semiclassical approximations. We used Wigner propagation without paying attention to any sort of "precision", in the most careless way possible, and found out that the semiclassical approximations for short times lasts for long times and is almost exact.

we don't know why... that's it.

DanielSank

@QuantumBrick "The map"?

user116211

@DavidZ Well, I've noticed apart from Lumo's The Reference Frame, that site was one of the few to report the recent LIGO news first.

QuantumBrick

4:14 PM

@DanielSank the map, the mapping, the function... in this case I'm saying "the mapping" is exactly quantizable.

DanielSank

@QuantumBrick What mapping?

David Z

@MAFIA36790 Probably because LIGO is a Caltech experiment, IIRC

DanielSank

Kerr Hamiltonian is just the harmonic oscillator plus an x^4 term, right?

QuantumBrick

@DanielSank (p^2/2 + q^2/2)^2

user116211

@DavidZ yeh, that must be the reason.

DanielSank

4:15 PM

@QuantumBrick Oh, never heard of that called a "map" before.

ACuriousMind

@QuantumBrick Well, but doesn't one also find that semiclassical approximations are exact for the harmonic oscillator? If it's that "squared" (I'm not sure what that means), you should think about what that is for the standard HO first (I don't have a good "reason")

John Rennie

@QuantumBrick: that's presumably the quantum optics Kerr not the GR Kerr?

David Z

Anyway, in the interest of time we should move on from this topic (sorry)

DanielSank

@JohnRennie yes

QuantumBrick

@JohnRennie yep, I heard it appears in quantum optics

Secret

4:16 PM

Pluto glaicers of the heart region

QuantumBrick

@ACuriousMind We understand well what happens in the SHO. The points is that semiclassical approximations are not exact for non-quadratic maps. The Kerr map is non-quadratic, which means the approximation should be a bad one, in the regime we are working with.

John Rennie

3. Elections?

David Z

Yep, elections

DanielSank

I vote yes on elections.

David Z

I was just giving things a minute to wind down ;-)

@DanielSank lol

So, we are having a moderator election. Nominations start September 26, and the election itself starts October 3.

DanielSank

4:18 PM

I nominate @ACuriousMind.

2

David Z

13

Q: 2016 Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

Physics is scheduled for an election starting next week, September 26th. In connection with that election, we will be hosting a Q&A here for candidates. This will be an opportunity for members of the community to pose questions to the candidates on the topic of moderation. Participation is compl...

user116211

My wish is @danu and @ACM.

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank Why are you so pushy? ;P Also, the nominations are self-nominations.

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind I know. It was an attempt at humor.

David Z

I figured as much, but it is worth a reminder for people who don't know

user116211

4:19 PM

@ACuriousMind I was not joking; but yeh, sure that's your call ;)

DanielSank

So @DavidZ what's to talk about?

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank Ah. Well, if I imagine you saying that with over-the-top eagerness it was funny :D

Balarka Sen

how about JD

user116211

@0celo wants Lumo to be the next mod, btw....

David Z

@DanielSank Not much, in particular, but if there are questions about the election process we can address them here

user116211

4:20 PM

@BalarkaSen O.o

user116211

@BalarkaSen you okay, right?

DanielSank

Oh, actually I did have one question: is there a moderator job description somewhere?

2

I want to know what job I'm voting people into.

David Z

@DanielSank that's... a good question. Not really, as far as I know.

DanielSank

I don't really know what moderators do.

@DavidZ I would find it very helpful to have that for two reasons:

user116211

Oh, @DanielSank, what about you? Would you like to nominate yourself?

Balarka Sen

4:21 PM

@MAFIA36790 ofc

David Z

You can find some (or, a lot of) information in the help center and on meta sites about what moderators can and should do, but I don't know of a one-stop complete job description.

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank I think the closest is the old theory of moderation blog post.

2

DanielSank

1) I want to know what I'm voting people into. I don't think good content creators are (necessarily) the same as good mods. I want to know how to vote for a good mod.

2) If I were to ever run, I'd want to know how it would affect my ability to create content.

John Rennie

6

Q: What are the basic characteristics for becoming a physics.SE moderator?

As the moderator election 2012 is in progress, users (above 300 rep.) are invited to nominate themselves in the election. So, some users will ask themselves, "Could I become a moderator?" I strongly believe that these four lines don't necessarily answer their questions... A moderator ...

discussion moderators election moderation

David Z

43

Q: Let's give a better idea of what moderators do

When a moderator election is announced, this is what appears on the election page to explain what the role of moderators is: On Stack Exchange, we believe the core moderators should come from the community, and be elected by the community itself through popular vote. We hold regular elect...

discussion moderators election

DanielSank

4:22 PM

Ok, let's collect all these links into a meta post.

It's too hard to have to scan the chat for this stuff, even with stars.

Who's going to do it?

user116211

@DanielSank you?

DanielSank

Let's have only one person do it so we don't replicate info.

@MAFIA36790 very well.

Doing it now

David Z

For what it's worth, a lot of the job description is sort of made up as we go, within the general parameters set by SE.

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank There is a general collection of links for moderating information at meta.SE

DanielSank

Ah ok....

Good, that post is what we needed, @ACuriousMind.

@DavidZ can we permastar that until the election is over?

David Z

4:24 PM

@ACuriousMind yep; I believe that's targeted at elected moderators, but it's also useful reading for others who would want to understand the role of moderators

DanielSank

Or should we just have a megapost for our own election, or something?

David Z

@DanielSank I don't think chat stars last that long

John Rennie

It wouldn't hurt for our mods to answer a question saying what they do

DanielSank

Basically, I'm just wondering how someone who notices we're having an election is supposed to gather relevant information.

David Z

If someone wants to create an election megapost, go for it

John Rennie

4:25 PM

As opposed to what some theoretical mod does.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Actually, I want both.

David Z

@JohnRennie I can get to that momentarily

DanielSank

In particular I want to know exactly how the mods' privileges w.r.t. using the software differs from others.

David Z

This is the official election page. There's a bit of information there.

John Rennie

Post a question asking What activities are involved in being a Physics SE mod?

David Z

4:26 PM

@DanielSank you mean, like from 10k or 20k users?

John Rennie

Then hopefully our mods will reply with the details

David Z

@JohnRennie yes, that. It's more than can be handled in a chat session.

DanielSank

@DavidZ Yes.

David Z

Key difference: close votes and review votes are binding. Also we have access to the moderator flag queue, which gets some spillover from the review queues as well as custom flags.

DanielSank

In other words, what powers does a mod actually have? I don't care much about how each individual mod uses those powers yet... first I'd like to understand what the boundaries are.

@DavidZ Ah.

Can you throw nonbinding close votes?

David Z

4:28 PM

No, we cannot.

Xasel

ok i am joining late..but imy vote goes to @ACuriousMind for mod...

DanielSank

Interesting.

David Z

@Xasel you're about two weeks premature :-P

ACuriousMind

lol

Xasel

?

David Z

4:28 PM

The election starts October 3 and we don't even know who's running yet

Xasel

ooops..but..

David Z

Anyway, according to the schedule we should move on from this topic. But one (or more) of us mods will definitely post an answer to that meta post.

John Rennie

@DanielSank: and you're going to post the meta question?

DanielSank

@JohnRennie I don't know yet. There was a flurry of links just now. We don't want to duplicate information.

0celo7

@MAFIA36790 Make Stack Exchange Great Again.

David Z

4:31 PM

There are a couple important things I want to bring up before we move on.

user116211

@DanielSank Don't we want to aggregate them at one place?

DanielSank

After the chat session I'd like five minutes with @DavidZ and anyone else interested to discuss if we need a meta post.

David Z

Sure

DanielSank

@MAFIA36790 Maybe, but the link @ACuriousMind posted contained lots of links.

user116211

okay.

user116211

4:32 PM

@0celo7 Does Lumo really care about the Elections?

David Z

One thing: a lot of people have said they don't want to run for moderator, which is fine, but I would hate to see the situation where nobody with sufficient experience and judgment runs.

user116211

@DavidZ I'm really fearing for that.

David Z

This is my subtle way of urging many of those who said they don't want to do it to reconsider ;-)

The second thing: our next chat session, on October 4(?), is ideally placed to have a town-hall chat with the candidates, if we as a community would like to do that. I think I'll defer that decision to a meta post, but think about whether it would be a good idea.

4

The catch is that I'm not sure I'll be here at the time. I expect to be traveling and probably without internet access, so someone else would likely have to lead it.

user116211

@DavidZ sounds good.

John Rennie

@DavidZ yes, seems a good idea to me. I'm happy to keep order in the room.

DanielSank

4:35 PM

@DavidZ Alright, let me then explain exactly why I don't want to to do it: I think it will significantly reduce my content output, which is already at an all-time low.

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie Assuming you aren't a candidate, that is?

David Z

@DanielSank oh you don't have to justify yourself to me :-P

With that brief delay, let's move on to discussing the goals of the site

Lagrangian

Hello

I'm new here

David Z

11

Q: What are the goals of this site?

This discussion question is inspired by this post on the current homework policy question. The main question is What are the goals of this site? Some things to think about when answering: What is it we want this site to represent? What are the ideals to which we should hold all of the conten...

discussion featured scope content-level

DanielSank

@DavidZ Actually, that was meant as a not-so-subtle warning to others.

Lagrangian

4:36 PM

I was going to ask if anyone looked into leidenfrost oscillations

DanielSank

@DavidZ "Create useful content about physics"?

user116211

@Lagrangian Bit late but welcome at The h Bar.

David Z

@DanielSank In some sense, yeah, but that's really broad

John Rennie

@Lagrangian hi, we're in the middle of an hourly chat session. Normal servce is resumed in 30 minutes!

Lagrangian

my numerical model predicts purely hydrodynamical source of oscillations so its independent on temperature

John Rennie

4:37 PM

I think any discussion about the goals of this site is futile

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie The session is biweekly, not hourly ;)

David Z

For anyone who hasn't seen the meta question, we are in the middle of a discussion on how to replace the homework policy, and as part of that we're going "back to our roots" to figure out what this site is supposed to be

Obliv

@johnR so you have finally caught on

John Rennie

There will be even less agreement than about homework - if that's possible.

Lagrangian

as long as the substrate is above leidenfrost point there will be pressure fluctuations that excites the normal modes of the water droplet

I think it would be of great interest if everyone witnessed the oscillations in video form

John Rennie

4:38 PM

@Lagrangian can it wait 20 minutes?

David Z

@JohnRennie Well, going forth with it still gives us better results than not

Lagrangian

ok

John Rennie

Having diverse views about the purpose of the site is A GOOD THING

David Z

I mean, if discussion about the site's goals is futile, what is the alternative?

DanielSank

@DavidZ I'm not convinced that discussing the definition of a forest helps define a tree.

John Rennie

4:39 PM

It keeps the site vibrant and covering a range of interests.

David Z

@DanielSank When you're pruning your forest, I believe it does

DanielSank

@DavidZ Discuss the specific type of question we presently call "homework"?

Lagrangian

Discuss about physics problems is better?

user116211

@DavidZ I really think the conventional goal as Dmckee aired there is sufficient, isn't it?

DanielSank

@DavidZ Well said.

David Z

4:40 PM

@MAFIA36790 I would like that to be the case, but we need to come to a consensus that everyone can agree on.

i.e. that everyone will be willing to live with

DanielSank

Alright I'll think out loud: perhaps part of our goal is to improve the quality of information exchange within the physics community.

As such, lazy, stupid questions are not good for us.

David Z

@DanielSank I like that

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank That's a lofty, but also a very nice goal

DanielSank

Note that this is not the same thing as generate good content. They are, however, intimately related.

@ACuriousMind Well, Stack Overflow has undoubtedly done that for software.

Lagrangian

Well, if we manage to turn every user of this site into a researcher, I think that would mean everyone did a good job. :)

ACuriousMind

4:41 PM

Yeah, "generate good content" just delegates the issue to what is "good content"

DanielSank

@Lagrangian Not good enough.

Lagrangian

Rigorous content

DanielSank

I (and I hope we) want physicists to communicate effectively. Not all researchers do this.

@DavidZ Actually, I think that might be the way to frame the "homework" issue.

ACuriousMind

@Lagrangian No, it would mean that strangely all the non-researchers left, and I would go about figuring out what went wrong.

David Z

@DanielSank do go on...

DanielSank

4:44 PM

@DavidZ Perhaps we dislike homework questions because (among other reasons) we feel they serve as a bad example of how to communicate. We don't want them sitting around teaching new (and established!) users bad habits.

BenPen

I'm way new, but I have seen that you want to discuss established research with a real following rather than new theories with not much following...

DanielSank

I feel that Stack Exchange sites have really helped me improve my question-asking-fu.

BenPen

Or next door neighbors thereof.

David Z

@BenPen Yeah, we don't see this site as a place to decide or debate the correctness of new work.

DanielSank

I am dismayed when I see bad questions get answers because it makes me think that some poor student somewhere is learning bad habits that will piss off his/her future colleagues.

Lagrangian

4:45 PM

@DanielSank ^_^

BenPen

Bad habits?

DanielSank

@BenPen "PLZ HALP HOW TO SOLVE NEWTON LAW PROBLEM?"

Secret

Help vampires, period

DanielSank

I dunno, @DavidZ maybe I lost the good part of that train of thought.

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank The more often you say this, the more I agree with you. I often find myself thinking "This could've been a nice question, if only you actually had tried to ask us something instead of dumping a problem/your stream of consciousness into the ask a question box and call it a day"

2

BenPen

4:46 PM

@DanielSank LOL

DanielSank

Sometimes a good idea is like a wisp of smoke, and if you grab at it, it disappears.

@ACuriousMind Yep.

I'm very happy that you're seeing the meaning in my clumsy words.

David Z

So this brings up the possibility of adding "encouraging/setting an example of good communication" to our mantra.

DanielSank

@DavidZ Yes. I'd want to think about the implications of saying that though.

Because now we have to define "good communication".

This is why I link to how to ask questions the smart way often.

vzn

@DanielSank lol sounds very poetic/ zen

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank It's a bit specific to programming questions, though

DanielSank

4:49 PM

@vzn Stolen from a movie...

@ACuriousMind Unfortunately, yes.

David Z

@DanielSank Oh, of course. So the next question would be, what do you mean by good communcation?

vzn

@DanielSank any idea which one? (have to ask before wisp of smoke disappears!)

David Z

And in the end, we want to figure out, how do we identify a question which is an example of good communication as opposed to one that isn't?

ACuriousMind

And people already bad at communication can't be expected to draw the parallels we might expect them to

DanielSank

@vzn Gladiator. Marcus Aurellius uses that analogy for the ideal of Rome.

David Z

4:50 PM

@ACuriousMind sure, so we close their questions.

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind I completely agree.

It's interesting that the software community has several excellent manifestos on how to ask for help effectively, while we have none.

@DavidZ Yes, but I strongly believe that when a question is closed it has to come with a piece of information that, if the user chooses, helps that user get better at asking.

David Z

In my mind, one of the principles of this site is that we should not have to cater to everybody (and everything). We should set standards and reject contributions which don't meet those standards (unless and until they are changed to meet the standards).

BenPen

There is one that comes with, "Your question is on hold, try this..."

ACuriousMind

@DavidZ Well, one criterion is certainly that a person reasonably familiar with the field must be able to tell what the question is about without interpretation. I often see users answering unclear questions with rather general pointers about the topic in question because they couldn't tell what exactly the question was either

A second criterion is that dumping a lot of into/work into the question and then slapping "Where's the error?" onto the end is an example of outsourcing work, not of good communication

DanielSank

@BenPen Yes, but as discussed in the meta, a lot of the information about "homework" is confusing and even self-contradictory.

David Z

4:53 PM

@DanielSank I don't agree with that. I mean, I do think it's a good idea to offer some guidance about how to improve a question when we can do so. I just don't think we should consider ourselves obligated, in every single case where we close a question, to give information telling how to improve it.

DanielSank

@DavidZ I didn't say obligated. I'm talking about ideals.

BenPen

@DanielSank it was helpful, even the non-homework bits. I had been looking for it as my question marched that direction though, but of course, help is where such a thing should live.

David Z

@ACuriousMind That's good food for thought. If that's something people would agree with, it points toward making "what did I do wrong?" type questions off topic.

user116211

@ACuriousMind This had been a problem for me back then; only effort without conceptual query isn't the standard.

user116211

7

Q: What is the meaning of **effort** that Phys.SE wants in homework questions?

Always do I have seen most of the homework tagged questions are hold, with a close reason to show minimal effort. I thought Phys.SE wanted the asker to show his attempt. But recently, I got amazed when my homework-tagged question was put on hold by a moderator (I am not disrespecting him!). For w...

discussion closed-questions homework close-reasons

ACuriousMind

4:54 PM

@DavidZ You're missing a "not" there, I think.

David Z

oh, yes indeed I am

DanielSank

@DavidZ ok. I agree with that.

David Z

:32445201 it wasn't because of the missing "not", was it?

DanielSank

I also think we should put out info that helps people get better at asking.

@DavidZ It was.

David Z

OK cool

user218912

4:55 PM

@DanielSank I didn't show all my work for the problem for finding $N$ so I need a clarification of what we did please. why did we switch the order of the exponentials with the annihilation and creation operators? is it because $\langle 0 | e^{za^\dagger} = 1$?

DanielSank

@IceLord We're in a formal chat session. Please wait.

user218912

sorry :(

David Z

@DanielSank Yes, I agree that we should do so, but I don't think we should consider it an obligation - in other words, I would not want to see us hold back from closing a question merely because we wouldn't also be giving advice to give the poster on how to improve it.

DanielSank

@DavidZ Neither would I.

David Z

Cool, I think we agree then

DanielSank

4:57 PM

@DavidZ yep

BenPen

@DavidZ The "Where did I go wrong" could be judged as not of "General Interest?"

user116211

@DavidZ great!

DanielSank

However, going back, you said you liked this idea that one of our goals could be to improve communication within the physics community.

David Z

This does mean that our first priority is to determine what questions should be on and off topic. Once we do that, we can craft the off-topic reasons and associated meta posts in such a way as to provide the most useful information possible about how to improve the posts they are applied to

user116211

Anyways, I would be off now.

David Z

4:58 PM

(just a couple minutes left in the session, BTW)

user116211

Good night all.

BenPen

@davidz It's specific to one problem, with no background to apply to more than one moment.

The "Where did I go wrong..."

David Z

@DanielSank indeed, and we can work communication advice into the close reasons

DanielSank

@DavidZ It's interesting, we agree on all points, but our conclusions about where to spend effort are a bit different.

ACuriousMind

@MAFIA36790 Well, the topic of "effort" is a slippery one, and there are highly upvoted and almost trivial questions that show absolutely zero effort, but never received a single close vote. I'm increasingly uncertain what to do with this situation, but I'm starting to believe that "insufficient effort" is either a proxy for something more specific, or that people are just horribly inconsistent in how they apply policies to "interesting" questions.

David Z

4:59 PM

Maybe we can hash this out after the session, and after your extra discussion you wanted to have

DanielSank

I feel the most important thing we need to do is improve the advice given about closed "homework" questions.

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