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12:38 AM
@ChrisWhite But I guess Mathematica use deterministic simplification, so it should give the same results regardless it is on your machine, or mine or whoever
 
 
9 hours later…
9:22 AM
1
Q: Does the magnification equation help you determine the type of eyeglass lenses?

user9686 While picking up a pair of eye glasses dropped by a friend, you notice that they form an inverted image of the background and that the image is stretched horizontally as well. Your friend suffers form myopia, hypermetropia, astigmatism or both? I try to do this question by making an equat...

I don't think that's off topic, at least not after the edits, but I don't want to unilaterally reopen it.
 
@DavidZ: I'd support reopening it.
The OP has shown some effort, and explicitly stated what problem he has encountered in trying to solve it.
 
10:00 AM
Your reopen vote would be appreciated then
 
@DavidZ: Done
 
10:18 AM
I had to share this one with you guys diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/…
 
heh, yeah, that's a classic
 
@Danu: So they 'rediscovered' integration for themselves?
 
This is what's wrong with academics
@JamalS ...the first year of high school method, yes. What's more: She even compared it to computer calculations. Oh, the irony.
 
lol
 
I'm not sure what bothers me more: the fact that the author thought they'd discovered something new, or...
> Tai's model was developed to correct the deficiency of under- or overestimation of the total area under a metabolic curve.
...why there was a deficiency in the first place
 
10:28 AM
@Danu ... is that serious?
 
I mean, what had people been using before?
 
@DavidZ monoids
(cross-field joke that I hope somebody got)
 
I got that it was a joke but I don't think I got the joke
 
In CS a classic answer to such questions is "monads"
Maybe it's a meta-joke?
Bah. Not really funny anyway :p
 
oh, gotcha, I'm not embedded in CS enough to know that
 
11:08 AM
@DavidZ That's the question I also asked myself when I first heard about that, and I still haven't found an answer.
 
12:01 PM
@DavidZ: Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. But more seriously, you can learn monads in 12 minutes - you just can't make the mistake to learn them from CS people who themselves try to understand the concepts by examples within examples.
 
haha
 
12:14 PM
@ManishEarth: The first line is from this humorous summary and I wasn't joking, if you know what a functor is then the definition of a monad is as complicated as the definition of a group. However, CS people learn about their implementation, learn 3 example, and then write blogs about it.
 
0
Q: The secret to getting a massive reputation is

John Rennie... obviously to answer simple questions about everyday life: Why are dishwasher washed glasses "squeaky clean"? Not that I wish to be ungrateful, but I put far more effort, and found it far more interesting, to write an answer explaining where the idea that black holes are gateways to other un...

 
@ManishEarth: There is the List monad, Maybe monad, and those are the most approachable exmaples.. It's called the monad toturial fallacy. It's like knowing Z_5, SO(3) and complex conjugation and then trying to explain "group" to someone else in only those terms. There are many truths and specialication/aspects of groups which can never pop up with just some examples.
 
12:43 PM
@Danu: Not only has the author named the method after herself, in the acknowledgements, the author dedicates 'Tai's mathematical model' to her 'late parents.' lol
@Danu: The New York Times is a bit late: nytimes.com/2014/11/25/science/…
 
user54412
1:15 PM
@ManishEarth So what does it say about me that I thought you were referring to Leibniz's monads, especially given the calculus context
 
1:28 PM
@ChrisWhite: It says that you know what Leibniz monad is. That says quite a lot. The name is also used for a concept in non-standard analysis btw.
 
2:02 PM
@ChrisWhite lol
 
2:56 PM
@Danu : This 1994 rediscovery of the trapezoidal rule is also discussed here.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:12 PM
0
Q: "Questions" containing links to the most relevant questions on a given topic

glanceThe "Related questions" list does a great job in presenting the most upvoted (and whatever other parameters are used) questions related to a subject, and the subgroup of linked questions, when present, is even better. However, given the amount of high quality questions and answers that are presen...

 
 
4 hours later…
8:35 PM
@JamalS haha oh man, the start of that comment is priceless ;DD here
 
9:05 PM
@Phonon Gah, wavefunctions again :P
 
@ACuriousMind XD
 
Just properly build the frigging Hilbert space, then you won't have to worry about these things
(the frigging Hilbert space is closely related to, but not equal to, the rigged Hilbert space :P )
 
:DD
you should add this as a comment to the post ;D
@ACuriousMind another interesting talk, they interrupt the poor guy so often....
 
I still maintain the my comment is right
 
@KyleKanos The problem is that "solutions" of the Schrödinger equation may not belong to the physical Hilbert space of states
Thus, they are not solutions at all if you write down the equation properly instead of insisting on using wavefunctions.
 
9:10 PM
@ACuriousMind But you can rule out a boat load of trial functions by seeing if it satisfies the damn equation
 
I think this comes on my list "Why the idea of wavefunction has to die"
@Phonon: Might actually get to be a thing for a blog post :P
 
@ACuriousMind :D
 
"Why entanglement is not mysterious at all" is a close second
 
@ACuriousMind liking the titles already :D
 
9:28 PM
Hmm
Apparently Squall is dead
 
@KyleKanos What is Squall?
Or rather, who is Squall?
 
Squall is a character from Final Fantasy 8
 
@ACuriousMind have you checked out any of these yet? (although I know you're not too fond of long lectures :p)
 
(actually, the main protagonist)
 
@Phonon No, I haven't. But after the horrible job my string theory lecturer did today when trying to do conformal field theory, I might. It literally can't get worse
 
9:31 PM
@ACuriousMind haha I can imagine :D, hopefully Susskind will do a better job :(
 
@Phonon I'm a bit too...unfocused to listen to them right now, though. The christmas markets here have begun, and that means mulled wine is flowing in the evenings ;)
 
@ACuriousMind haha nice nice
 
9:45 PM
@Phonon: The 'shove' comment?
 
@JamalS yes :D
 
@Phonon: ::takes a bow::
 
hehe
 
@ACuriousMind: What did he do in your CFT lecture?
@Phonon: I don't think Susskind's lectures are any good, I've only watched a few for the anecdotes :)
 
@JamalS I like em because he just takes his time, all relaxed, makes em enjoyable to watch, midnight onward at least :p
 
9:51 PM
@Phonon: Yes, I'd agree they are quite relaxed, but that's also their downfall for me.
 
@JamalS Thinking a central charge is unnecessary. Believing conformal weights must be integer (okay, I kinda guided him into saying that, but still...). "Deriving" OPEs and the state-field correspondence without ever even defining the vacuum. Never demanding unitarity.
 
can never get enough of this stuff from the legend himself...
pity there are not more high quality material left
 
@ACuriousMind: Thinking a central charge is unnecessary? You're joking?
I hope the other students don't take him seriously either.
 
@JamalS Nope. He said "I think that will fall out of radial ordering vs. normal ordering when we discuss it"
...which we only "discussed" after he said "Now we know enough about CFT, lets apply it to string theory"
My (brilliant) lecturer on CFT last semester would have ripped this guy into pieces so small you'd need an electron microscope to find them
3
 
hahahhahahah wtf
 
9:56 PM
@JamalS Most don't know anything about CFT, so they kinda believe him
It's infuriating, really
 
do you still get to see him for discussions and whatnot?
 
Know enough about CFT... Di Franscesco wrote a 900 page book on the foundations of conformal field theory...
 
@Phonon My CFT lecturer? He was my advisor for my bachelor's thesis, but he's on a sabbatical this semester, sadly
 
@ACuriousMind sigh... :(
 
@ACuriousMind: How come this guy is lecturing?
 
9:59 PM
@JamalS He's a PhD, and he's a (junior) researcher in "phenomenological string theory". The two really compentent string theorists here are unfortunately unavailable this semester - one has his hand full with being the dean and dealing with bureaucratic stuff, the other is on sabbatical
So the string theory lecture got passed to him
Frustratingly, it's not even the first time he gives it.
 
@ACuriousMind: Why do you bother going to the lectures?
Just watch lectures online and do stuff from the textbook.
 
@ACuriousMind what do you mean, you won't have to worry about these things? Domain issues for operators are 'real', no?
@JamalS You've clearly never taken a uni course before ;) The key to passing a course is seeing what the lecturer thinks is importnat
 
@Danu: Because he designs the final test?
 
@JamalS pretty much
 
@Danu: Can't you get by doing the problem sets?
 
10:01 PM
@JamalS I'm not attending them always, but on Wednesdays I like to go there in the morning so I'm awake to deal with the homework that's due tomorrow afterwards
 
@Phonon that's about some of the work of my bachelor thesis supervisor :D (Jan de Boer)
 
Also, if I don't go there, I don't see some of my fellow students at all, although I like our discussions
 
@Danu what is? the talk I had linked?
 
@Phonon yup
 
@Danu Yes and no. The idea of domains and the rigged Hilbert spaces following from them are important. But if you properly construct this physical Hilbert space, you know from the beginning what kind of functions are allowed as solutions to the SE
The SE is nothing but an equation on the Hilbert space of states, after all
To think that there are "solutions" to it that aren't "physical" has the whole thing backwards, in my view
 
10:04 PM
@ACuriousMind but the question on which domain an operator is self-adjoint is relevant and important and physical
 
@Danu NICE, had no idea
 
@ACuriousMind Ok. THat's a different issue, and I think I agree
I was mostly just looking at that answer which seemed to be about domains of operators etc
not so much about solutions of the equation (which the question was asking about)
and of course, that's exactly what you're talking about when you say define it properly (only the $\psi$ in the right domains are allowed)
(right?)
 
@Danu Exactly, I'm not complaining about the answer, it's that the question is confused about where the SE actually lives
 
Well, I'm off to bed - good night, everyone.
 
Mateus essentially does what I proposed in their answer - constructing the physical space of states
 
10:07 PM
good night man
 
@ACuriousMind You may or may not be extremely "biased" due to a education in Germany
 
LOL
 
As far as I know, one does never discuss this type of mathematical issues in most 'normal' degrees (outside of Germany)
certainly not in Holland
 
Danu and his never-ending German comments ;DDD
 
nor in the US
 
10:08 PM
@Danu Then how do you people grasp QM at all?!
 
@Phonon This is unsurprising, as I'm a non-German being immersed in the most German of German (mathematical physics)
@ACuriousMind You are a physicist not a mathematician
Talking about things like 'allowed wavefunctions' etc allows you to get exactly the same conditions in almost all cases
 
@Danu To me, all that that means is that I'm not (that much) interested in mathematics that does no model the real world
 
Mathematical physics usually finds that physicists were doing exactly the right thing without knowing why
In fact
This is inevitable
 
If you do not know why it is the right thing you're doing, then you do not know that it is the right thing at all
 
as experimental verification tells us that, without exception, good physics is good mathematics, if one adopts the appropriate framework
This is highly nontrivial but I really think it's true
 
10:10 PM
I get that progress might sometimes leap over such rigorous steps
 
I don't think one should look into "countries" at all when it comes to such matters, it just has nothing to do, I highly doubt QM teaching e.g. is country dependent, rather teacher dependent....
 
@ACuriousMind EXPERIMENTS
This is the problem with many people I talk to these days
You can test things, and if your nonsensically-derived predictions are correct then there is something to them
we just need to find the right way to mathematically construct our framework
 
@Danu But the beauty of theory is to get the maximal predictive power with minimal input. If you rely on experiments to tell you what the "physical" solutions are, you need more input than if you had formulated the proper wa of constructing the Hilbert space
 
@ACuriousMind Sure, but this is not physics, it's polishing physical theories by doing mathematics
 
After all, a "theory" that predicts all experimental results correctly could also just be a collection of rules "If you do experiment X, you will measure Y with error Z"
but that's not knowledge, not understanding, just a collection of experimental results
 
10:13 PM
@ACuriousMind Of course, there is a balance one needs to strike
@ACuriousMind When one can derive things in the physics rigorous way, it will not be like this
And no, we really do not need to understand rigged Hilbert spaces and the like to do basic QM
 
@Danu No, we do not need it to do it. But we need it to understand it.
 
(of course, we should! That's why I'm doing mathematical physics...but that's another question.)
@ACuriousMind You can understand it on a physical level, quite well in fact, without all of this stuff.
And this is much stronger than just a collection of experimental 'instruction manuals'
It's not 100%
but it's really good enough for almost all purposes
 
I know I'm quite a hardliner on this stuff, but "understanding things physically, but not mathematically" is, to me, just a paraphrase of "I've convinced myself that it works that way, but I cannot deliver a waterproof argument for it"
 
Anyhow, I forgot how we even started talking about this. It's come up so many times in my conversations now that I'm pretty sure it's just me wanting to polish my point of view.
@ACuriousMind Exactly! And that's fine, if you have an objective arbiter like experiment to help you out.
 
guys I think a lot of it boils down to how leaned each one of us is toward theoretical physics and not, there isn't a single way of doing physics, most approaches are really complementary...
 
10:17 PM
@Phonon Meh, I'm a purely theoretically minded person, but I also hate pedantism
 
@Danu I guess my main complaint is that we have known for decade how to replace the intuitive arguments with rigor, and we still teach it in the way the fathers of quantum mechanics first discovered it
It's certainly interesting and important to know how things developed
But it shouldn't be taught as if it were "state of the art"
 
@ACuriousMind Sure, but that's in the end the same issue as: Why do we teach stupid math to kids in high school instead of nice math?
 
@Danu Yes. Yes, it is.
 
Not everybody who has to learn the basics has to learn the advanced stuff, and hardly anyone cares
For people like us, that kinda sucks, but yeah... It's impossible to please everyone
 
10:20 PM
:DDD
 
That rant encompasses everything I have to say about the way math is taught.
 
before you guys loop back into this discussion again, I suggest to both of you to grab some nice/cold/fresh BEER asap!
 
@ACuriousMind I haven't read it, but I've heard of it and it sounds like a cheap way to criticise
@Phonon already had some, that's why I even bother discussing :D
Also I hope it's clear I really like these discussions and am happy rather than angry/frustrated about having them
@ACuriousMind One cannot simply adjust everything for the top 1%
...but it's a good way to show how stupid it is math is viewed as so evil
 
@Danu I think just the start is the most fitting analogy: Math is like music, or other arts. Not everyone likes them. Not everyone is good at them. But you don't force everyone to draw stupid notes of music, and stupid applications of composing techniques throughout all of school
Somehow, it is understood that, with art, it is alright if you suck at it. But with math, you must be taught. In an age of calculators and computers.
And so math is broken down into little, "easily" disgested pieces that have nothing at all to do with what math is really about
It's really like teaching painting by letting people "connect the dots" over and over again
 
@ACuriousMind I don't quite agree that math is like music, but ok
 
10:25 PM
@Danu tbh I always enjoy learning mathematical nuances and details Gauge usually hints at (emphasizes) in most of his answers and discussions, and most often find them a very useful addition to what I already may know, or thought have known. At the same time, the point you bring across, has also always been part of my learning in physics, i.e. not need to learn about all details to be able to understand some of the advanced topics, when one luckily can rely on physical thinking.
 
An essential difference between math and conventional art is that it's a lot harder to enjoy high level mathematics for a layman. It's literally impossible, in fact. A skillfull painting/musical piece however is much more accessible.
 
well that kinda goes for any scientific matter really
 
@Phonon I've started trying to be more like the stereotypical mathematical physicist. I think there is a lot of value to knowing the hardcore stuff, but being able to see through it.
@ACuriousMind In fact, I find myself quite frustrated because I cannot seem to get the faintest clue of what Grothendieck's work is about, even with my (relative to the average) enormous background in mathematical/logical thinking
 
@Danu In my view, and in one word: Structure. Modern algebra, all of homotopy and category theory and all of algebraic geometry with its schemes and stacks, is about seeing structures without caring about the particulars. About what is local and what is global in the most general way.
 
@ACuriousMind Do you really understand his work? Toposes, motives and stuff?
 
10:33 PM
And about making naturalness precise. One of the best Ah, that's why! experiences of my life was when I finally understood why universal properties are so powerful.
 
I wish there'd be some more intuitive insights into it :(
 
I do not understand the details of motives and topos theory. But one of my long-term goals is, for example, to understand what the heck Urs Schreiber is doing in this paper.
 
@ACuriousMind Sounds like a string of randomly generated technical terms with the occasional 'quantum field theory' thrown in :)
 
lol
It did to me, at first, too
 
I'd really like to understand that stuff. I'm very seriously debating whether it's worth it or not to try to really learn things like algebraic geometry
There's a course on it in my degree program
 
10:38 PM
But even the first part about modelling "smooth spaces" on the ordinary Cartesian space makes so much sense
 
@ACuriousMind Ehrm... manifold much?
 
@Danu If it is held by someone with a faible for abstraction, go for it. If it is held by someone with a fetish for varieties and polynomial stuff, run as fast as you can
@Danu Yes, but...more general
Amazingly, you can do essentially everything you can do on manifolds on these smooth spaces, but you do not have these annoying local definitions with charts to deal with
 
btw, is Urs Schreiber really as big of a deal as it seems, or is just cause he's so active on SE?
 
@Danu I think he's not that big a deal, because almost no one knows or is interested in what he does
It's so far removed from "ordinary" theoretical physics that it's not really interesting to most
 
@ACuriousMind but it seems that he always is trying to connect his stuff to physics
 
10:42 PM
@Danu Yes, but to physics already known
It's about reformulating physics in a natural, categorial way, not about developing new theories or new predictions
Which is why it's not "research" to most
It's a certain kind of understanding, that I also find appealing, that he pursues, but it is really not at the frontier of current science in any way
 
@ACuriousMind Aaaand we're back at our previous discussion :D
 
Indeed :D
 
Glad we talked :) I'll leave now... MQM @ 8 AM is calling :(
 
@Danu Heh, good night and have fun ;)
 
BTW, is there no online video footage of Grothendieck?!
 
10:55 PM
He would have wanted it all burned anyway :P
 
screw that, I wanna learn about the guy
I started reading Recoltes and Semailles, damn it. That's how bad I wanna learn about him
 
user54412
11:07 PM
@ACuriousMind You know, I was hoping you'd chime in on this question to assure the OP that yes, entanglement does get more attention than it deserves.
 
user54412
Especially with everyone's insistence that we only test entanglement by spacelike-separating our measurements, as though spacetime has anything to do with it.
 
@ChrisWhite I...actually didn't see that question until now
For the same reasons that you conduct any experiment. — Robert Harvey yesterday
Though that captures my first thought very well
As much as I like getting on my soapbox and telling people that entanglement is really a natural occurence as soon as you think about any composite system at all, I think that doesn't answer the question
 
user54412
I guess that's fair.
 
Neuneck has the correct answer, for the record. The others all wax about what this experiment may or may not imply, but theirs is the only one to unambiguously state that even if you expect the stone to drop to the floor, you still look if it actually happens.
 

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