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12:08 AM
Any smart people here?
Page 108 to 109 seems to indicate that we can't see light. Any thoughts.
 
That is more of a philosophical question than a physics one
It does not let me read page 108
 
I can only offer a single thought: If the pages say that (I didn't read them), then they are obviously wrong.
I mean, the definition of "seeing" is pretty much "perceiving light".
 
vzn
@Skyler this is a complex area with a lot of research, but basically no "airtight" LHV theories have been found, but arguably they have not been definitively ruled out either. bells thm rules out a "large class" of LHVs. yes, think it is possible some new LHV theory could be found in not-too-distant future that is entirely consistent with QM. admittedly this is likely a minority-bordering-on-fringe pov. are you learning this for school or do you have some independent interest?
 
@Slereah is it a French thing where they don't put a table of contents o.O
wonderful index for a 300 page book
 
12:23 AM
@ACuriousMind do you understand qualia?
 
I do experience a quale of understanding qualia, but due to the nature of qualia I could not possibly communicate it to you. ;)
 
@Slereah yo let's get this
 
@0celouvsky Apparently that's all the important stuff that's in there instead of the usual density of math books :P
 
Lol, yes or no will do.
 
@ACuriousMind We should call it Jauge Theory
@ACuriousMind Hormander is the same way. 800 pages and two pages for the index
it's fairly dense ;)
 
1:18 AM
@dmckee I need your algo knowledge
If I have an unsorted list of words
and I want to check if a word is on that list
is there any good algorithm I can use?
I mean, since the list is unordered I assume time complexity will always be O(n)
 
:(
when I see O(n) I think orthogonal group
what does that mean for me
 
@0celouvsky That you don't know complexity theory :P
 
@NeuroFuzzy Maybe you know, look at my question to dmckee above
 
Practical or theoretical?
 
1:24 AM
 
@NeuroFuzzy Hm?
 
@Bernardo If you're trying to make something just do the dumb search algorithm. Or make a hash table if it's a language where it's easy to do so.
But yeah generally if you're just doing one search on an unsorted list, dumb is as fast as it gets.
 
@NeuroFuzzy Well, the tricky thing is that the search happens only once. Otherwise I'd sort it and then do some smart search
I guess I'll do it the dumb way
Hash table will be a PITA in C
 
Yeah. There's a story about something I think in the ever famous Quake source code
I think that's the one with the "WTF!!" finvsqrt code too haha
 
The magic inverse square root you mean?
 
1:28 AM
Yeah
 
it's my favorite bit of code lol
100% magic
 
there was a dumb lookup code that did a super slow O(n) search, so the story goes
 
It's funny that no one knows for sure who wrote that code
 
aren't all computer things magic
I mean how do 1s and 0s do all of this o.o
 
@0celouvsky Yes, but this one is a whole other level
Fast inverse square root, sometimes referred to as Fast InvSqrt() or by the hexadecimal constant 0x5f3759df, is an algorithm that estimates 1/√x, the reciprocal (or multiplicative inverse) of the square root of a 32-bit floating-point number x in IEEE 754 floating-point format. This operation is used in digital signal processing to normalize a vector, i.e., scale it to length 1. For example, computer graphics programs use inverse square roots to compute angles of incidence and reflection for lighting and shading. The algorithm is best known for its implementation in 1999 in the source code of Quake...
 
1:29 AM
and every on usenet newsgroups blasted this piece of code for being so stupid and slow
but like
 
Fast inverse square root, sometimes referred to as Fast InvSqrt() or by the hexadecimal constant 0x5f3759df, is an algorithm that estimates 1/√x, the reciprocal (or multiplicative inverse) of the square root of a 32-bit floating-point number x in IEEE 754 floating-point format. This operation is used in digital signal processing to normalize a vector, i.e., scale it to length 1. For example, computer graphics programs use inverse square roots to compute angles of incidence and reflection for lighting and shading. The algorithm is best known for its implementation in 1999 in the source code of Quake...
Those code comments, lol
 
it's easy to write, and easily verifiably bug free.
 
what on earth is this
 
@0celouvsky It's how a ninja computes $\frac{1}{\sqrt x}$
 
what is that wtf
 
1:30 AM
sometimes programmer time > computer time, especially if it's in initialization code which is only run once (for example, if you're writing a simulation that will take two days to complete, who really cares if you add an extra 10 seconds to the initialization code?)
 
why is it so hard to understand?
 
/ rant
 
@0celouvsky Because it's magic
You know it's on another level when the comment is "what the fuck?"
@NeuroFuzzy I will say I do a lot of silly optimization
 
"the dimension of harmonic 1-forms is at most $m$"
 
But I find it fun
 
1:31 AM
I've heard that before
Now that's real magic @BernardoMeurer
The Bochner technique
ah
you can only have up to $m$ parallel 1-forms
@BernardoMeurer magic!
 
2:12 AM
@BernardoMeurer That is often used as a prototypical use case for a hash map.
 
@dmckee Even if I do the search only once?
The program receives a path to a file with the word list and a word
it then simply prints whether or not the word is in the list
 
Well, then a linear scan through the data will be faster than building a hash-map.
 
Wouldn't creating a hashmap add unnecessary complication? Since the search happens only once
Yeah, exactly
Well, dumb way it is then :)
 
You can also binary search if you know the data is sorted, but there is an added complexity of finding the nearest word boundary.
 
@dmckee Yeah, the whole issue is the list has no order that I can see
I'll just do a pass-through
 
2:17 AM
Brute force it is, then.
 
Yep :P
 
3:03 AM
@BernardoMeurer u never showed me the test
 
@0celouvsky Prof didn't post it online
 
welp
 
I got fucked because:
The proof was hard
I didn't know Fubini well
I couldn't draw one of the sets so I couldn't figure out the integration bounds in cartesian coordinates
 
Anonymous
@0celouvsky Know what?
 
@blue how the name is pronounced
@BernardoMeurer I see
what was the proof?
 
Anonymous
3:08 AM
@0celouvsky It's an Indian name...
 
@0celouvsky Some magic with a product thingy and a sine
I don't remember anymore
 
@blue I certainly can't pronounce every american name
 
I just remember being like "wat"
 
I see...
 
Anonymous
@0celouvsky It's a very common name here. I live in Assam, so I said the Assamese/Bengali way of pronunciation. If you go South/West , then they would have a different way of pronunciation. It varies slightly from place to place. But in most dialects the a's are pronounced with an o sound.
 
3:11 AM
then why write an a
It's probably an a
 
Anonymous
@0celouvsky Because the sound is such that no English alphabet fits it well enough. The sound is more like "aoh"
 
Anonymous
Which is more similar to "o" than "a" in my opinion.
 
pronouncing it with aoh is just silly :P
 
Anonymous
@0celouvsky In Bengali/Assamese we have a different alphabet for that sound.
 
Anonymous
In English there are only 26
 
Anonymous
3:14 AM
We have nearly double of that
 
But...why?
We communicate just fine with 26.
And really, we could scrap one or two of them.
(looking at you c)
 
Anonymous
@0celouvsky The same reason as to why Chinese people have thousands of alphabets...
 
Lack of intelligence?
 
Anonymous
Some languages have less than 26 alphabets
 
Anonymous
It depends on how they were developed
 
Anonymous
3:15 AM
And where
 
Anonymous
You need to read History for that :P
 
@ACuriousMind Does the divergence theorem hold if my vector fields and their derivatives are only defined a.e.?
Oh wait, that's not smooth talk :P
 
3:32 AM
@0celouvsky I don't quite understand the section property. I am on page 8 of the book
is it saying that for product measure
 
that's not a question
 
hang on i am typing
So given (\Omega, \Sigma, \mu)
if u is really u_1 \times \u2
 
can you use mathjax?
 
i don't know how to make it math in here
I forgot the $
$(\Omega, \Sigma, \mu)$
i give up. I don't know how to mathjax
 
...
I honestly don't understand how it's so confusing to people. I found the link instantly
 
3:38 AM
i am looking it up
give me a sec
 
It's on this page dammit
 
please give me a few minutes let me read up on how to do this in chat
 
You have 14
 
 
yes
 
3:49 AM
How does the cdn work? I use cdn's all the time, hmm let me think
 
what?
you just bookmark the link then click on the bookmark
this isn't rocket science
just do exactly what it says, jeez
 
ok I bookmarked them.
start ChatJax
 
what?
 
hang on I did something wrong
$e^{i\pi}+1=0$
ok I don't know what I am doing
 
...
you followed the instructions exactly?
 
3:58 AM
yeah I think.
Let me try to install the chrome extension instead
just added the extension
let me see
Thank you it works
I have been doing things wrong all this time
I can see the stuff render nicely
still there?
 
yes
 
ok let me try again
So $(\Omega, \Sigma, \mu)$
So I am looking at the section property on page 8
I think it says
 
I have the book in front of me
 
wow!
 
wow?
I got it from my bookshelf
hurry up
 
4:08 AM
I am happy that if I read this, I would be able to perhaps understand questions like the one you showed me
ok
back to the question
so for a product space $\mu_1 \times \mu_2$
Are we saying that because it is a product
 
are you going to actually ask a questoin
 
I am trying, I a typing
 
To prove the section property I believe you need the monotone class theorem.
 
ok
I have not gotten there yet
 
Does that answer your question?
 
4:11 AM
yes
thank you for telling me about the mathjax. I will try to read till the end of the first chapter before coming back.
 
Applying monotone class is hard to wrap your head around
If you need help, see Halmos' Measure Theory page 141.
 
ok thank you
 
I'm going to sleep, cheers.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:40 AM
@blue goniometer
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie Oh, thanks. That's a new one. I read yesterday that spectrometer is used too, for measuring angle of prism.
 
A spectrometer? How would that measure the angle of the prism?
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie See this ^
 
Anonymous
They use telescope to measure angle :P
 
5:50 AM
That's not really using a spectrometer as a spectrometer i.e. to measure dispersion. They are just measuring the angle that the light is deflected and then calculating the angle of the prism.
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie Yep. I feel that method is far more complicated that necessary. Measuring angle can be done by far simpler instruments like the one you mentioned
 
Anonymous
Maybe, that spectrometer method gives more accuracy(?)
 
Goniometers are used in crystallography to measure the angles of crystal faces, and the prism is in effect just like a giant crystal.
 
@0celouvsky I think it's common in older books to have shitty table of contents
 
6:11 AM
Suspended for voting irregularities eh?
 
Curiouser and curiouser
 
 
1 hour later…
7:19 AM
@JohnRennie please don't send crap like this to other sites.
It's not nice.
@ACuriousMind perhaps unsurprisingly, it is not trivial to ship wine to Germany from here.
 
8:11 AM
first sentence of Kobayashi : "A pseudogroup of transformations on a topological space $S$ is a set $\Gamma$ of transformations satisfying the following axioms"
He doesn't fuck around
 
8:45 AM
"We define the topology of $TM$ by declaring a subset $V$ of $TM$ to be open if and only if $\psi_\phi(V\cap\pi^{-1}(U))$ is open for each chart $(U,\phi)$ for $M$, where $\psi_\phi:\pi^{-1}(U)\to\phi(U)\times\mathbb{R}^n$"
Ah, found the exact thing
"My teacher wrote as a comment that this topology would make the zero section become open, which is not the case, so that this was not correct."
Oh I guess not
 
mornin
 
mornin
 
@0celouvsky Why is $\Sigma_i \vert x_i \rangle \langle x_i \vert $ not equal to one? Is that only for infinite dimensional hilbert spaces or something?
also whoops
 
That is a question for @0celouvsky
 
Ok, just saw a question on SE that cited from a book, where it said that what I put above was a false assumption. Also, how do I do Sigma over i?
 
9:01 AM
@Phase $$ \sum_i $$
 
oh thanks
 
user228700
9:20 AM
Hello, everyone.
 
user228700
Everybody around here seems to be busy. Time to watch some Outlast (gameplay), then!
 
Hi, doctor Nick!
 
not busy but lurkin'
 
@Kaumudi.H Hi, exam over?
 
@Slereah who's nick
 
user228700
9:24 AM
@BalarkaSen Holidays now?
 
user228700
@JohnRennie Yello. Yes :-)
 
So no more exams for a bit?
 
user228700
No, not for about a month :-)
 
Is it just the JEE advanced to come?
 
user228700
9:25 AM
@JohnRennie That and one more.
 
Gosh, the finish line is in site. It must feel a bit surreal :-)
 
@Kaumudi.H more or less. took the 11th grade exams but results haven't come up yet
 
@BalarkaSen does this seem like the correct definition of the topology of the tangent bundle
41 mins ago, by Slereah
"We define the topology of $TM$ by declaring a subset $V$ of $TM$ to be open if and only if $\psi_\phi(V\cap\pi^{-1}(U))$ is open for each chart $(U,\phi)$ for $M$, where $\psi_\phi:\pi^{-1}(U)\to\phi(U)\times\mathbb{R}^n$"
 
user228700
@JohnRennie I dunno what it feels like ._.
 
user228700
@BalarkaSen Ah, OK...
 
user228700
9:29 AM
God, I really do hate Kerala.
 
@Slereah Hard to read that symbol salad but that's morally right
It's the topology which comes from the quotient topology of $\bigsqcup (U \times \Bbb R^n) / \sim $ where $U$ runs over charts
 
I guess the basic difference between the trivial vector bundle and the tangent bundle is the involvement of the charts of the manifold
 
@Kaumudi.H wow, that's a bit strong
 
user228700
You'd say the same if you had the day I've had and it's not even evening yet!
 
@Slereah Eh? Any vector bundle has charts.
 
9:31 AM
Well any day that starts with a maths exam isn't going to be great ...
 
@BalarkaSen But the topology doesn't depend on how charts are related
it is just directly the product topology
 
Ah, yes.
What you're saying is not just specific for tangent bundle; any nontrivial vector bundle.
 
Probably
 
This pheonomenon is called mondromy. If you go around a loop through charts you might come back elsewhere
trivial vb has trivial monodromy yo
 
And the two points are related by the structure group
 
9:33 AM
Right.
 
user228700
@JohnRennie 1.5 hour bus journey back and forth. On the way back "home", this lady was literally grinding on me and wouldn't stop even when I asked her to (and this was because there were too few seats and too many effing people) and I was squished between a bunch of bars and the engine of the bus so my feet were burning. I was trying to listen to my favorite podcast but they were blaring horrible, horrible Malayalam music and it's sweaty and etc. And this was just the bus journey, fyi >.<
 
But apart from that the journey was great? :-)
 
user228700
@JohnRennie -_- I was in tears...literally.
 
i have to go to pune in july. not looking forward to it.
 
user228700
Anyhoo.
 
9:36 AM
is that the place that invented puns
 
maybe
 
@BalarkaSen Pune is the only Indian city I've visited.
 
yeah i heard
 
Apart from a very brief stay in Mumbai between flights.
 
@JohnRennie Did you visit it when it was still England
𝕰𝖓𝖌𝖑𝖆𝖓𝖉
 
9:37 AM
lol
 
@Slereah I'm old, but not that old :-)
The old British fort is still there, though now somewhat decrepit.
Judging by the number of people walking round it the fort is something of a tourist attraction.
 
user228700
@JohnRennie Old British forts can be found pretty much everywhere.
 
At least France still has a bunch of colonies!
though I guess you still have Gibraltar
 
we used to be britain but then we became american in the 60's
 
@Kaumudi.H when you initially said old British I was wondering if you meant me :-)
 
user228700
9:39 AM
Aww x'D I'm not mean.
 
@Slereah and the rest:
The 14 British Overseas Territories (BOT) are territories under the jurisdiction and sovereignty of the United Kingdom. They are the parts of the British Empire that have not been granted independence or have voted to remain British territories. These territories do not form part of the United Kingdom and, with the exception of Gibraltar, are not part of the European Union. Most of the inhabited territories are internally self-governing, with the UK retaining responsibility for defence and foreign relations. The rest are either uninhabited or have a transitory population of military or scientific...
 
Psh
Nobody really owns Antarctica
that's against the Antarctica treaty
 
Admittedly none of the BOTs are what you'd call economic power houses.
Gibraltar is by far the biggest, and I suspect they're not so much pro-British as anti-Spain.
@Kaumudi chill for the rest of the day I guess. A quiet walk maybe? That usually cheers me up.
 
user228700
@JohnRennie Walks around this place tend to be depressing ._.
 
user228700
But yes, chill I will :-)
 
9:45 AM
then again France lost Algeria about the same time Britain lost India
 
@Kaumudi.H I generally relax by surfing eBay looking for laptops, though I appreciate this is not for everyone :-)
 
is there a standard book for quantum interpretations
 
Edward Lear's book of nonsense?
 
user228700
@JohnRennie I'm going to sleep, watch some YouTube and figure out some stuff :-P
 
I would like a book of not nonsense
 
9:47 AM
chillax and listen to bowie. or chillax and watch a good movie.
 
@Kaumudi.H I'd go easy on the introspection if you're already feeling a bit fed up. It tends to lead you down some dark and scary paths.
 
Like Labyrinth
feat. David Bowie
 
Man who fell to earth sounds hip among the bowie fans
I haven't watched it
 
user228700
@JohnRennie I'm already there Sir, already there :-P
 
@BalarkaSen It's a film of a novel, though the fame of the film has rather eclipsed the novel.
The Man Who Fell to Earth is a 1963 science fiction novel by American author Walter Tevis, about an extraterrestrial who lands on Earth seeking a way to ferry his people to Earth from his home planet, which is suffering from a severe drought. The novel served as the basis for the 1976 film by Nicolas Roeg, The Man Who Fell to Earth, as well as a 1987 television adaptation. == Plot summary == Thomas Jerome Newton is a humanoid alien who comes to Earth seeking to construct a spaceship to ferry others from his home planet, Anthea, to Earth. Anthea is experiencing a terrible drought after many nuclear...
 
9:50 AM
Ah, I didn't know that. Is it good?
 
@BalarkaSen Yes, it's pleasant enough. Not the height of literary sophistication but it's an enjoyable read.
 
I see. Interesting.
 
@Kaumudi.H Eat chocolate? Read Calvin and Hobbes?
 
you know what's a great film? The Man from Earth. 90 minutes of solid story telling
remembered it from the similarity of names
 
user228700
:-) Chocolate not available, I'm afraid.
 
user228700
9:54 AM
Food is scarce. Ugh, I just wanna go home.
 
@BalarkaSen I once saw it's gif
 
user228700
Bro, u gotta have some chocolate to begin with.
 
it's a cool trickery
 
 
9:58 AM
@Kaumudi.H what's the address? I'll have Amazon priority ship some chocolate to you on the grounds it's emergency medical supplies!
 

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