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3:00 PM
@Mew You don't think the cavity will alter the form of the fluorescence? There is the Purcell effect to consider and such
 
Mew
who is paying money for someone to write a paper that only 10 poeple read?
 
the government, some investors from the industry and private sectors, I guess
and for academia, the public
 
Mew
the public are paying for researches to write articles that 10 other researchers read
pathetic
Science needs an overhaul
 
@user129412 He's trolling and likely has no knowledge of the situation you are talking about :P
 
That's fair enough haha
 
3:02 PM
I'm afraid I can't help you either because it's so not my field, though ;)
 
Mew
but maybe there are 10 people in the world who's field it is
and you guys can trade papers
 
We can go to the optical domain if you'd prefer!
Oh wait, I am mistaken, that's not your field at all either
 
Mew
@Secret I think the problem with physics is that it's too hard for most people in the field to make a meaningful contribution
 
@user129412 nope :)
 
Mew
so they instead look for low hanging fruit in really trivial problems just so that they can feel they are contributing something
 
3:07 PM
@user129412 I think you maybe want to talk to DanielSank or EmilioPisanty.
 
Mew
rather than tackling the real problems
 
@ACuriousMind That's a good idea. In the mean time I've already found an older paper (journals.aps.org/prl/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.63.1376) that does discuss what I am looking for, just not in as much detail as I'd like.
 
Jim
@Mew academic institutions require researchers to publish a number of papers in a given amount of time. This is not always easy to do, it's like requiring an artist to make a work of art on demand (and we can see how well that turned out for the music or film industries).
 
@Mew Please take your unfounded speculations elsewhere, Even if there's something wrong with current academic culture, that most physicists go for "low-hanging fruit" is just plainly untrue and borderline insulting.
 
Jim
As a result, scientists will take pretty much any research direction they can, pump out something, and then beef it up and obfuscate the paper until it reads like something that should be published. Then it usually gets published, but the fact remains that it was originally minor and/or unimportant work pushed through only because the author had to meet a quota.
The obfuscation to achieve this makes the paper mostly useless to anyone else's work and hard to read just for the fun physics of it. As a result, hardly anyone cites it, but the author is given a pat on the back by the institution and has another paper to their name, which further motivates this behaviour. Thus, we become drowned by garbage papers that say mostly nothing in complicated ways instead of reporting useful or meaningful results in helpful or clear ways
Now, I'm not saying that most papers are garbage, only that you'll find more than should be out there because it is not deterred
 
Mew
3:11 PM
@Jim yes I agree and it is a sad situation to waste such great minds on trivial issues
 
Jim
but what can you do? Institutions need to have some sort of requirement, otherwise some people will sit around never doing any research at all. You need to find a way of motivating research, and I have no better ideas
 
@Jim " academic institutions require researchers to publish a number of papers in a given amount of time." I don't think this is universally true.
 
If my memory serves, the chemistry community is slightly better, as a lot of the funding sources are related to solving real world problems that are increasingly become more important (energy and resources, medical, synthesis, mining, catalysis, high performance materials etc.), thus the motivation aligns with the aims of the research.

some do, however lament about the relative unpopularity of fundamental researches such as those I joined back in my honours year. One of the talks I attended has the speaker emphasising the importance of fundamental research
 
Mew
@Jim Firstly I think research should be dominated by teams with key goals
and a hiearchy within the team
 
Jim
@ACuriousMind Fair point. I haven't encountered many, if any, counterexamples, but I'm far from saying they don't exist
 
Mew
3:13 PM
like a coroporation
where if one member of the team doesn't pull their weight they're gone
the team will produce publications not individuals, and there is no individual requirement for publish or perish, but rather team leaders will ensure team members are on track
 
@Jim I'm pretty sure such a requirement as a clause in an employment contract would be illegal under German law, and the German Science Foundation, a major source for funding, explicitly discourages the publish or perish mentality by limiting the amount of your own papers you are allowed to cite in support of a proposal to a handful, i.e. quantity of papers will get you nothing regarding new grants.
 
Mew
The teams should clearly outline their goals and where their aims sit within their field
 
I recall that publish or perish culture hit the hardest in the US. some countries actually fare better
 
Jim
@Mew I'm a cosmologist. A field that provides an excellent example to how research directions and progress can be difficult to determine. Try to put your proposed solutions in a form relevant to my field and I guarantee it'll be easy to convince me
 
Mew
@Jim what are the unanswered questions in cosmology?
dark matter?
Surely there are a few leads on what dark matter (or other big questions) could be?
have teams dedicated to investgating each lead
 
Jim
3:18 PM
@ACuriousMind I don't know german law, and I'm pretty sure the funding thing is the same here. "Don't cite yourself too much" is a common convention, I'd guess. But I'm taken to understand that research professors around me are required to publish at least one or two papers a year (or was it 5? I'll have to ask someone again) in order to get tenure. It's not a requirement clause, but who doesn't want tenure?
 
There are, various experimental teams have been searching for dark matter for some 5 decades(?). The results are still not very consistent, though, to warrant a discovery. In the theoretical side, a variety of models are constantly pumping out on what properties the dark matter to be searched, as well models which does not need dark matter or dark energy
 
Mew
@Secret so it proves my point earlier, physics is just too hard for most people to make an impact on
 
Jim
@Mew where do you think those leads come from? Who organizes these teams and assigns them? How do you ensure someone is actually pulling their weight? Who decides what the questions to pursue will be? Surely not a business person that knows little of the actual science
 
Mew
@Jim scientists as a community should define their priorities
e.g. there could be a cosmologoy society in each country
and each year defines the goals
allocates teams
lists all the problems and leads
and allocates the projects out
and every team is accountable to the society/profession
accountable not based on "number of publications" but on how it went about assigned project
 
UNSW and Griffiths univerity has a national centre for quantum computing, and they have been making great progress along with other teams across the globe
 
Mew
3:22 PM
the cosmology society can be funded by the government
but will be self governed by cosmologists
who must of course report their progress to the government, but not in the form of "number of publications"
 
Now the problem: Who fund the government?
 
Mew
people, but that's ok if science is actually making real progress
what's not ok is funding people to create irrelevant side projects where 10 people read their work and do nothing with it
 
Jim
@Mew yeah, the main question is about what form the progress reports will actually be. Everything else is just extra fluff. What you describe is pretty much how things work currently (aside from being forced to work on a specific research topic)
 
Mew
@Jim progress reports should include a summary of what the goals where, and how they were achieved and their importance to the development of the field for the community
 
Jim
@Mew we don't force people to work on a specific topic. Those people might see other questions to answer that a governing board might miss. And they might contribute something more valuable as a result. We do ask that they justify their research choice to get funding, but we don't mandate a topic
 
Mew
3:28 PM
@Jim I work in a coroporation of bright individuals and we do allocate out tasks (e.g. research topics, bug fixes etc) to various people
and it works amazingly well
most people have interest in the task they are assigned
I don't see why science can't work in the same way
I think having clear goals will increase poeople's motivation
because they don't have to worry about their assigned task not being read
and in my corporation people do come up with great ideas often outside of their own task
and we share that aroudn to the relevant departments
that can happen in science too
 
What you said happens quite frequently in the private sector and the start ups, if I recall, and also in some govenrment R and D companies, and (to a lesser extent), academia
but perhaps it is not enough...?
 
Mew
companies often aren't motivated to understand theoretical physics cos it doesn't turn a profit
but I think having theoretical physicists just do free for all research isn't the best either
so we need an organised approach to theoretical physics (and other science outside industry)
 
@Jim Actually, any one having a professorship in Germany can pretty much do whatever they please as long as they fulfill their teaching obligations. You don't get fame (or another position elsewhere) from it, but I'm pretty sure no one will or can fire you because you didn't publish in the last 10 years.
 
Jim
3:43 PM
@Sanya yeah, I think the issue is tenure, not firing
 
@Jim what exactly is tenure?
 
Jim
tenure is paradise
 
that is very specific :p
 
@Jim We don't have the notion of "tenure track" here. You get tenure when you become a professor, but you don't become a professor by fulfilling employment contracts.
 
(I just checked - we have one professor here whose last paper cited on his homepage is from 2008 and I can't find anything newer on google scholar. And that 2008 paper is the only one on his own homepage which begins with 20)
 
3:46 PM
@Sanya The German equivalent to "tenure" is verbeamtet, i.e. can't be fired
 
Jim
yeah, tenured professors might go years without publishing. It's just the profs that want to get tenure that feel pressured to publish. Not sure how well our system works
 
ah ok, then I misunderstood the whole conversation
sorry
 
Jim
@ACuriousMind yes, exactly that
 
@Sanya It's easy to misunderstand because American "professors" aren't automatically tenured.
 
Jim
thankfully
 
3:50 PM
that probably means that universities are less careful about employing people
 
@Jim Well, don't get the impression that it's easier here to get tenure - it's just that we don't call people without tenure "professor" in most cases.
 
not that bad either
@ACuriousMind people without tenure here are called poor pigs ... I mean, let's be honest, how many people without the tenure can decently live at university for a long period around here?
 
Jim
@ACuriousMind yeah, without tenure you'll be called "associate" or "assistant professor", but professor is still in the title. I suppose naming conventions are a minor matter, however
 
@Sanya Eh, I think we have a few non-tenured people who've been here for a decent amount of time and seem rather happy. They either hold positions with significant administrative overhead that not many other people want or just seem to have no ambition to become full professors.
But the HR politics in our departments tend to confuse me, so...I'm not really sure about that :D
 
@ACuriousMind well, we have ... 2 positions in the whole department with administrative overhead big enough to support a fulltime position
and about the no ambition stuff ... I'm not sure whether I understand that new Hochschulgesetz correctly, but isn't the maximum for time-limited jobs 12 years now? After which you'd need an unlimited contract which ... is either the position with admin overhead or a professorship, isn't it?
 
3:56 PM
@Sanya Probably, yes. I have no idea what kind of contract the people with "no ambition" are on
 
@ACuriousMind I mean, if they are on a E-13+ 100% unlimited contract, I could understand why they're not too ambitious about getting away ...
 
@Jim thanks :-) I see the question has now attracted not one but two unconventional answers. Oh well.
 
@JohnRennie "unconventional answer" is a very nice euphemism :)
 
Jim
@JohnRennie Thanks for pointing out the second one. Stuff like that makes me smile
 
@Jim Valev is a notorious and long standing relativity denier. He's been at it for several decades.
 
Jim
what a champ. Persistence is not something he lacks. What spirit and determination he has
I'm impressed
 
4:39 PM
I like how the comments of you two make JD's answer more meaningful when considered together, by highlighting the meaning of the constancy of the speed of light to future readers and what it means to be VSL vs GR
 
I always read that relativity is the theory best proven experimentally - why don't people hate something more vulnerable instead? :o
 
because relativity is even more nonintuitive than quantum mechanics
and most people don't like that
 
Jim
they do, climate change, evolution, etc
 
@Sanya The precision of QFT tests is even better!
 
@ACuriousMind some predictions of QFT are values that become worse with high pertubation order - how can anyone claim that because we can see that a certain pertubation order is a nice fit, the theory has good predictive power and is well tested? :p
@Jim well, let's stay within the realm of physics ...
 
4:42 PM
@Sanya because experiment matches the calculations?
The divergence you describe only comes in at numbers of loops far greater than we'll manage for the foreseeable future
 
@JohnRennie yeah but which calculations? I mean, to be honest, I don't know much about QFT and I'm generally unwilling to criticise it
 
@Sanya QFT is not perturbation theory! It's an almost necessary feature of perturbation series that the series diverges, sadly.
@JohnRennie Wrong, QCD perturbation really is crap.
 
@JohnRennie ok ... I thought it was already the case
 
@ACuriousMind yes, OK, though only at low energy.
 
that in some cases, getting a higher pertubation order produces worse agreement with experimental values
which - I find a bit weird; but most of all I wanted to annoy ACM
 
4:45 PM
@Sanya no, leaving aside the vexed issue of QCD at low energies/bound states there is no QFT calculation that doesn't match experiment.
 
Jim
@Sanya because it's the closest subject to the physics of everyday situations (which most people can relate to and intuition supports) that is still non-intuitive and assaults the validity of an average person's intuition/gut knowledge. It's something that people frequently encounter in enough detail to realize they need to either defend against it or admit their intuition is wrong
2
 
@Sanya Not in QED to my knowledge (I think you'd have to go to...137th order to see the asymptotic divergence), but yeah, QCD perturbation really does give terrible results.
But for that, we have lattice methods which do produce very good results...sometimes
Doing lattice calculations right is hard.
 
@Jim that's a nice explanation
 
Jim
thank you
 
5:30 PM
In my part of the UK we've just had a warm front blow in from the Atlantic. The temperature has jumped by ten degrees and the relative humidity is now in excess of 90%. Everything, and I mean everything, is now covered in a film of condensation. Lovely.
 
5:42 PM
(evil idea)
Can we DDoS a predatory journal by writing a script to inventing false author names and spam them with junk like the "get me off your fucking mailing list" example?
or will this backfire?
NB: false authors means no real world people will be linked by these bot articles, unlike the get me off your fucking mailing list example
 
Why exactly do Young diagrams arise in multi-particle quantum mechanics?
supposedly explain why, but I can't make sense of it tbh
 
6:02 PM
@bolbteppa The group of permutations of $n$ particles is the symmetric group $S_n$, and representations of $S_n$ are what Young diagrams encode.
 
6:27 PM
WARNING: DANGEROUS IDEA. Hopefully won't get into trouble for discussing about such possibility...
0
Q: Is it legal to counter a predatory publisher into nonoperation by exploiting paper auto generation softwares?

SecretThe following question contains sensitive and discussion on a potential suggestion of a criminal countermeasure. Therefore please close and/or delete the question asap if it turns out to be unacceptable/inapproporiate (NB Nothing in the meta said question of this nature cannot be posted, as evide...

 
@JohnRennie That was every day of summer where I grew up.
Man up and deal with it ;)
@ACuriousMind Pffft.
 
Does anybody know if the voigt-hjerting function can be solved analytically? or if it's something for a computer to do
seems like a lot of effort has gone into making approximations of the profile
 
7:29 PM
hello
 
7:41 PM
@Mew, your tenure conversation reminds me of this Asimov story, lemme see if I can find it in my book
 
vzn
@Secret the article reminded me of jungs "collective unconscious" theory which probably few (hard) scientists take seriously for a variety of reasons. find it interesting/ significant that there seem to be common dream themes across people/ cultures & think it is worthy of further scientific study & maybe points to something deeper...
 
8:06 PM
@Mew, it is called The Dead Past
the story by Asimov, I mean.
 
8:22 PM
Pauli was very into Jungian pychology
 
8:59 PM
0
Q: redirecting off-topic homework-and-exercises questions to appropriate sites

sammy gerbilProposal When homework-and-exercises questions are voted off topic and put on hold then the OP should be directed to the Meta Question which offers a choice of alternative sites. To put this proposal into effect, the notification box could be amended to read : put on hold as off-topic by ....

 
I am curious what average professional physicist "does" as part of that job.
I've been watching SixtySymbols videos e.g. about string theory and it seems like physics is mostly pulling absurd stuff out of your ass and hoping someone can see it happen at the LHC?
has all the "easy stuff" just been done already?
 
@KutuluMike There was never any "easy stuff".
 
1. just no. there's many other fields than string theory! 2. see #1 3. see @BernardMeurer's comment. 4. very few people actually understand string theory. it is not absurd stuff; it is a field of study.
 
well, like... I was watching: youtube.com/watch?v=03vIkZR2hNY
 
@DanielSank That's absolutely hilarious
 
9:12 PM
@KutuluMike do you mean "the average professional physicist in research" or in business/industries?
 
fwiw, that's kind of insulting to string theorists everywhere who work hard on crazy-complex stuff
 
and it seems like every time he talks about something, its "well obviously we've never seen that happen, but in the LHC we're hoping...."
 
@KutuluMike What's your point?
 
You're probably being invaded by a different StackExchange right now btw
 
@heather I didn't really mean it as an insult, but this guy's a professional string physicist and he (in trying to dumb down his job for the lay person) basically says he just makes things up and hopes they are true... is that like, what modern physics mostly is?
feels like that is backwards.
 
9:14 PM
@KutuluMike You seem too smart judging from your SO profile to be talking seriously right now
 
@KutuluMike, people come up with theories and test them = scientific method...
 
@TomW Where are all of you coming from?
 
physics is always about both things
 
Well I was being a bit facetious, but I am also partly serious.
 
having an experimental result and trying to explain it
as well as making up theories or exploring the consequences of existing ones to predict things
both are very important
and both can lead to relevant advances in the field
 
9:15 PM
I feels like these things have no connection to "reality" yet.. like, they aren't based on seeing something happen and going "oh I bet I can figure that out."... they're more like "if we play with the equations a bit this really cool thing happens, wonder if that's real?"
 
@KutuluMike What is science in general if not: Choosing something you'd like to understand; Coming up with a theory on how it works, i.e. figure a way to understand it; Test your model to see if it holds against Nature
 
@BernardMeurer I'm not at liberty to say. There is a degree of facetiousness involved but I just wanted to remark that this is not simply a trolling exercise so don't ban him straight away...please?
 
maybe I just watch too much of the really bleeding edge stuff.
 
@TomW I can't ban anyone, but, in all honesty and with no offence, it seems like @KutuluMike Is 60% trying to be offensive and 40% trying to ask an honest question
 
both produce a lot of "irrelevant" results - measurements or theoretical derivations that are not leading anywhere - but that is needed in order to advance
 
9:17 PM
@KutuluMike I think you're just looking at Theoretical Physics alone
 
but things like "back in the 60s we had this idea for superstrings and everyone rejected it but later it kinda looks like it would be cool in this spot over here"
 
and none of the Experimental physics
@KutuluMike You're a CS guy?
 
that is likely true.
yah.
 
@BernardMeurer no, you can start with the experiment instead of the theory too ;)
 
You're aware of Quantum Computers?
@Sanya Indeed, :)
 
9:18 PM
I am vaguely aware of the concept of quantum computers.
 
@KutuluMike They're quite cool, right? Mapping NP problems into BQP and solving them in P time; that's mostly just physicists working on it right now (on the hardware side)
 
I <3 quantum computers
 
I'm not smart enough to connect my theoretical knowledge of QED to a machine that can crack my encryption though :\
 
Also, do you think no physicists work at Intel figuring out how to shrink transistor sizes?
@KutuluMike Most people aren't
Including me
 
I guess I just imagine those people are "engineers"
EE and stuff
 
9:21 PM
Not really, I'm in CEng and I'll be dammed if I can do those things
Heck my "default" course load doesn't even include QM
 
The fact that there is only one D-Wave with no competitors and no contemporaries in academia publishing peer-reviewed research showing that their own similar machine produces good results gives me the creeps
 
@TomW You're very much wrong
Google has their own team that publishes regularly
The university of Vienna has a team
There are a bunch more
Even my uni, University of Lisbon, has a QC group
 
Are they presenting the same kind of machine solving the same kinds of problems that D-Wave proposes to?
 
D-Wave is just the only commercial "Quantum Computer Manufacturer" I think
 
Yes that's what bothers me
And that is to say, actually building and demonstrating one
 
9:23 PM
@TomW There are a bunch of different approaches to QC, I'm not sure right now which one D-Wave uses, but that's unimportant for this discussion
 
The phrase "similar machine" in my original statement is significant
 
@TomW Google, UVienna, and other have built and demonstrated it
 
@BernardMeurer, adiabatic qc, i think
(dwave)
 
in Particular the Google Quantum AI group implemented Shor's algorithm successfully
 
I'm happy to accept the theory supports it, I am suspicious that only one firm claims to have built one - to my knowledge
 
9:24 PM
@heather I was talking about the type of q-bit, trapped io, photon, and so on
 
@BernardMeurer, oh, gotcha, nvm
 
@TomW I'm just telling you other people who've built it :)
 
News to me, cool
 
No one has made a large enough one for us to say how good it is though
Mostly due to decoherence on the qubits being a bitch
We're advancing fast though
 
Sooo, I thought that quantum computers were faster due to 1.) base four number system instead of base 2 numbering system 2.) Entanglement (See black magic)
Even with those two things, how would the algs be substantially different?
 
9:27 PM
@Sidney It's not base 4. A qubit can have a gradient of stages between 1 and 0. Not sure where you got 4 from :)
@Sidney Entanglement is not black magic.
The algs are ridiculously different, see for example Shor's algorithm, that can factorize numbers (NP problem) in P time. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor's_algorithm
 
The problem with these kinds of wikipedia pages is I need at least 3 phd's to understand them. I'll go back to praising the sun. [T]
 
@Sidney Well, it is an advanced topic; but you generally need effort as opposed to a PhD
 
 
1 hour later…
10:49 PM
user image
2
 
@Slereah Are you familiar with this arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785?
 
I am not
 

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