The h Bar

DanielSank

1:28 AM

'sup, Homies?

::crickets::

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Sup

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Hi.

@0celo7 Help with Physics.

@BernardMeurer You're the guy who's into computers, right?

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Yeah, that's an almost complete discription of me hahaha

DanielSank

Groovy.

Working on anything interesting?

Bernard Meurer

Sigh, I wish. People at work foisted upon me to make Bash scripts

Loving elegant syntax I feel like a priest in a satanic ritual

DanielSank

1:45 AM

Yeah Bash is kinda stupid.

The entire thing is pushing streams around through various processing pipelines.

0celo7

@DanielSank I need a "normal" physicist to read draft 2 of my intro to abstract indices Q&A

DanielSank

Structuring a program as a pipeline of processors is a great idea, but bash scripting makes everything just a plain old stream of text, which is completely silly.

Bernard Meurer

What truly pisses me is the syntax. opening with case and ending with bloody "esac", who ever thought that was a good idea?

DanielSank

@0celo7 Link.

0celo7

@DanielSank it's a draft and quite long...can I email you the PSE code?

DanielSank

1:46 AM

@BernardMeurer Ok so... don't take this the wrong way, but pissing on about syntax is a bit tiresome and pointless.

@0celo7 Yeah sure.

0celo7

you'll have to put it in an answer thing to parse it

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Syntax is syntax, you know?

You just learn it and move on.

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank I get what you mean, it is absolutely pointless; it just sucks to spend a week coding something that you look and find absolutely hideous even though it works

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Well yeah, I feel you.

It is more fun to use tools where the aesthetics are appealing.

I get that.

Bernard Meurer

Like Python's beautiful list comprehensions. God I love those things

DanielSank

1:48 AM

@BernardMeurer Do you have to use bash? Can you use python?

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Has to be bash, it's a script to setup a development environment on linux. Makes Python3 the default, install VIM, Atom, plugins and all that

I work in a small teaching center and we were loosing a lot of time setting up student's computers

So I automated it

0celo7

@DanielSank Sent.

Note: wherever I have [name] I intend to put a section/page number and citation below

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Good.

FYI, tools for this already exist. See ansible.

ansible.com

@0celo7 Did you send it from slowmail.com?

I haven't gotten it yet.

Bernard Meurer

Yeah but it had to be open source and everyone wanted an MIT license on it

*GPL

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Oh I see.

0celo7

1:52 AM

@DanielSank Gmail -.-

Bernard Meurer

I work with a team of stallmans

0celo7

danielsank@google.com?

Bernard Meurer

I made it MIT though because GPL sucks

Secret

@ACuriousMind Indeed. They usually don't taught that in 3rd year undergrad. For my uni until 2016-2017, they don't really taught it even for honours because most of the higher QM professors are semiclassical thus like to work with wavefunctions than bra kets

DanielSank

@0celo7 Yah.

0celo7

1:53 AM

It got sent to an octopus, I assume that's you.

Check spam?

I sent it from a .edu address through gmail so it shouldn't have filtered...

DanielSank

@0celo7 Hahaha oh man.

Yup, straight to the spam box.

0celo7

wow...

Bernard Meurer

Even the email knows @0celo7 is a troll?

0celo7

I could have been sending you legitimate work stuff.

DanielSank

@0celo7 Yeah, here's the message:

"Why is this message in Spam? We've found that lots of messages from vols.utk.edu are spam."

0celo7

1:55 AM

@BernardMeurer Oh stop it. The last person who kept that up will never speak to me again.

@DanielSank o.o

DanielSank

@0celo7 Complain to your IT department. That's really bad for their users.

0celo7

WE've been having a problem that stuff gets thrown into our spam

Maybe it works both ways...

Bernard Meurer

@0celo7 Who kept what up hahaha? I just meant a silly comment, I usually rather enjoys your remarks.

DanielSank

gmail has decided that your domain is so crappy that every unsolicited mail from there is flagged.

0celo7

@BernardMeurer Huy.

@DanielSank Literally sending it through gmail :(

DanielSank

1:56 AM

@0celo7 Yeah but the domain you're using is flagged.

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Does the google AI lab have some visiting policy?

DanielSank

Using gmail as a front end makes no difference.

@BernardMeurer Do we have a visiting policy? Probably.

0celo7

@DanielSank Sigh...ok. Are you reading it?

DanielSank

@0celo7 In a moment, dude.

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank I'll be in california during february, and I really wanted to pay a visit if you think it's possible.

DanielSank

1:58 AM

@BernardMeurer yeah, come on down.

I may not be here. I'm going skiing in Feb.

@0celo7 I'm going to send you back an edited copy.

Bernard Meurer

Fancy haha. Is there anyone I could talk to this about? Perhaps hit you an email?

Secret

@0celo7 There are many options: (NB I have to break this paragtaph up because I am on a phone so bear wuth me (paragraph is not finished until you see END)

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Send your proposed dates.

Bernard Meurer

Will do

0celo7

@DanielSank Ok, you marking the edits at all?

Secret

2:00 AM

1. One nice source of citric acid is lemon juice. Therefore if you have a lemon, mix it with a littke bit of water and you are good to go

DanielSank

@0celo7 No. If you want me to do that put this in a version control system and give me access. I'm not going to take a lot of time to do manual version control.

You can just diff my copy against yours.

0celo7

@DanielSank what's that

diff?

DanielSank

How can you be an engineer in college and not know about version control or diff?

0celo7

freshman

DanielSank

^ See how annoying and unhelpful my comment was?

I did that to show you how goddamned annoying comments like that are.

0celo7

2:01 AM

huh?

DanielSank

Version control

A component of software configuration management, version control, also known as revision control or source control, is the management of changes to documents, computer programs, large web sites, and other collections of information. Changes are usually identified by a number or letter code, termed the "revision number," "revision level," or simply "revision." For example, an initial set of files is "revision 1." When the first change is made, the resulting set is "revision 2," and so on. Each revision is associated with a timestamp and the person making the change. Revisions can be compare...

0celo7

I can figure out what it is

Bernard Meurer

diffchecker.com

I love this one

0celo7

@BernardMeurer cool, thx

Secret

2. Coke and other soft drinks are also nice descaling materials because they contains carbonic and phosphoric acids. You can immerse the article into it stand for some time, then rinse the article with water and you should end up with a cleaner article

Bernard Meurer

2:03 AM

You should check out Git, it's an amazing tool

0celo7

My sister works for them...

Bernard Meurer

Dayum

Git or GitHub?

DanielSank

@0celo7 I don't like this part:

> As is common in general relativity (GR) literature, we will let Greek indices denote components of tensors

What's a "component of a tensor"?

If you're going to write a good Q&A about notation you have to be incredibly specific about the meanings of all the words.

Secret

3. If you have alcoholic drinks, it is possible to open it to air, let it stood for some time to turn it into vinegar (because alcohol can oxidise inti ethanoic acids upon fermentation). This however might take some days, even if you happen to have some fermenting bacteria brought from a wine store

0celo7

@DanielSank the reader is assumed to know that already

besides, I define it properly later.

the reader is not getting an intro to everything tensor

I will specify that components can take on numerical values in the "physicist's definition of tensor field" section

DanielSank

2:07 AM

I am telling you right now that I find this confusing.

Secret

END

DanielSank

And I already know tensors.

0celo7

o.o

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer You can't work for git.

0celo7

@BernardMeurer GitHub

Bernard Meurer

2:08 AM

@DanielSank that's what confused me

DanielSank

GIT WORKS FOR YOU!

heheheh

Bernard Meurer

hahahahaha

0celo7

@DanielSank Ok, ignore the first part on notation then. You're not always supposed to understand that before you read the book, right?

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Is your email on github correct?

DanielSank

Ok @0celo7, grammar time:

> For an arbitrary manifold, a single chart need not cover the entirety of it.

That should be rewritten as:

0celo7

2:10 AM

yeah

A single chart need not cover the entirety of an arbitrary manifold.

DanielSank

> A given manifold need not have any one chart which covers it completely.

Or similar.

@BernardMeurer Yeah, that's my personal one.

I think my professional one is on my SE page.

Hello?

ffs

Now what?

oh nothing

2:12 AM

Stop saying that...

always using profanity...*groan*

0celo7

lol

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Got it, the @google one

ACuriousMind

Great, now you pinged Google in chat.

Bernard Meurer

Oh no

DanielSank

@0celo7 How do you want me to give feedback?

You sent me a text file, so I can either sprinkle comments, just change it, or something else.

What do you want?

0celo7

2:14 AM

@DanielSank sprinkle, change, I'll diff it

DanielSank

k

TanMath

Yeah, this guy will not unblock me...maybe I should send him an email?

0celo7

@TanMath He clearly does not want to talk to you...

When he wants to unblock you he will.

Bernard Meurer

@TanMath Which guy? Perhaps if he blocked you you shouldn't bother him anymore

TanMath

@BernardMeurer DS...

I want his help since he is the only person who can help...

0celo7

2:20 AM

@DanielSank Got it

Bernard Meurer

@TanMath Just think about it for a second. Had you not rustled his jimmies he wouldn't have blocked you. Just leave the guy alone and find someone else to give you help, will probably be easier and less troublesome for both parties

3

TanMath

anyway, I need to send him an email about his book...

0celo7

oh jesus how does this diff thing work

TanMath

@BernardMeurer very easy for you to say...

Bernard Meurer

put the original and the changed

and it will mark the differences

ACuriousMind

2:22 AM

You can probably reverse diff with int

0celo7

well it's marking EVERYTHING

TanMath

You are not the one struggling to find the error and struggling to find someone to help you...

DanielSank

Try reversing the file order.

Also, if it marked everything it's probably because the line endings changed.

Try using a text editor which shows whitespace, and convert the line endings to be the same.

...or use a real version control system...

0celo7

...wat

Bernard Meurer

True, @DanielSank trolled you by changing every character for a different but visually identical one

DanielSank

2:24 AM

@0celo7 Line breaks are indicated by a byte with ASCII value 10.

Well, that's true on Unix systems.

TanMath

@0celo7 what are you doing?

DanielSank

On windows they use a pair of characters.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 The convention how to encode line endings is different on Unix systems

DanielSank

It's 13 and then 10.

0celo7

wat

Bernard Meurer

2:25 AM

LF and CR are the namings right?

DanielSank

Yeah.

LF is 10.

@BernardMeurer I have a feeling this is about me...

0celo7

@DanielSank re: "this is actually true for any $S^n$" I was making the point that there is no $\mathbb{R}^n$ that covers it

DanielSank

@0celo7 What's "it"?

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Yes, someone is complaining you blocked him...

0celo7

it's not homeomorphic to ANY real space

@DanielSank the circle

DanielSank

2:26 AM

@BernardMeurer "Someone" is obviously TanMath.

Hear this TanMath: Mark and I both found your approach to getting help irritating, lazy, and generally not constructive. If you go on in this way you will continue to alienate all possible people who could help you.

Change your ways.

0celo7

@DanielSank Ok, this answer is written for someone comfortable with tensors as used by physicists

they are supposed to know what a coordinate change is and what upper and lower indices mean

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Way to ruin my subtleness darn

DanielSank

@0celo7 Then why write the post?

TanMath

I do not know how to get help then...

DanielSank

Suit yourself, but I found it confusing.

I tried to indicate why.

0celo7

2:28 AM

did you read the question?

DanielSank

I would start with the algebraic version and explain why it is important in physics.

0celo7

> On the surface it seems very similar to [Ricci notation/component notation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricci_calculus), but the two are apparently different.

What exactly is abstract index notation and how does it relate to the more familiar component notation for tensor analysis?

DanielSank

Yes, I read it.

0celo7

Ok, so component notation is "familiar"

I'm not going to justify the use of tensors too...

DanielSank

@0celo7 Do what you want.

I'll write my own post at some point.

FenderLesPaul

2:30 AM

woo

0celo7

As an answer to that question?

DanielSank

woo?

FenderLesPaul

I finally succeeded in my calculation

DanielSank

@0celo7 Perhaps.

FenderLesPaul

so happy

DanielSank

2:30 AM

@FenderLesPaul Good job!

0celo7

@ACuriousMind do you agree with his criticism

FenderLesPaul

@DanielSank danke

I shall reward myself with cinnamon toast crunch

DanielSank

@0celo7 How can he see my criticism?

It was sent to you via email.

@FenderLesPaul YES

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 How can I disagree or agree with finding him it confusing?

0celo7

I figured he could infer it

dmckee

2:31 AM

@TanMath Uh ... so what? If you torqued off the only person you know who can help you then you made a mistake. It's really that simple.

The question to ask is what would make him care about helping you again? You see: his interests, not yours.

ACuriousMind

@FenderLesPaul Of the position space optical theorem?

0celo7

@DanielSank So I can't assume that the average physicist has seen a coordinate transformation in a linear algebra or calculus 3 class?

TanMath

@dmckee so what can I do? Sit here forever?

DanielSank

@0celo7 Yes, but you should assume that they don't really understand it.

0celo7

But to really explain coordinate transformation is cancer. Really cancer.

DanielSank

2:34 AM

@dmckee Well, I think there is a somewhat easier solution for TanMath which does not involve pondering my personal psychology.

He could just post a good question on the site.

3

0celo7

Mucking around with transition functions is just not fun and no one wants to read it.

dmckee

What you do now is your problem.

DanielSank

You know, one where the question makes sense, isn't clouded with irrelevant distractions about some computer program, and oh I don't know... maybe he could try to understand the simplest case that reproduces the issue he's trying to solve before tacking a more complicated one.

dmckee

@DanielSank Well, yes. But this could be a "teaching moment", too.

DanielSank

@dmckee I'm trying to make things easier for TanMath ;-)

Trying to fathom my interests may not be the best way for him.

0celo7

2:36 AM

cooking, quantum computers, really cold stuff, Greek women

octopi

I think that covers it.

DanielSank

^ Marry me

Wow, @0celo7 I'm kind of flattered. You really know me.

TanMath

@DanielSank well, it is the code that is messed up

FenderLesPaul

@ACuriousMind No unfortunately I'm still stuck on that

TanMath

@DanielSank see, I am not sure about this:

0celo7

@DanielSank Signal analysis, that one delta function

FenderLesPaul

2:37 AM

haven't made much progress there; I have to read this 4D a-theorem paper I think before I can make progress there

@ACuriousMind this calculation was on trying to get the Noether charges on marginally trapped horizons

TanMath

in TanMath's project, Jan 13 at 10:08, by TanMath

Note for future discussion - what does fit_data(data) do?

Because you want me to do some fitting thing and a I am confused about that...

0celo7

@TanMath He cannot read your messages.

TanMath

I know...

0celo7

So why bother?

TanMath

but I want others to respond...

0celo7

2:39 AM

I don't think anyone else cares, TBH.

TanMath

Like dmckee will say something, then DS will say...

Idk...

see how desperate I am?

0537

why are you desperate?

TanMath

It is an important project to me...

0537

is it for your university?

TanMath

No...

0537

2:41 AM

ok well why don't you figure it out yourself?

TanMath

I have already spent an entire year on this project..

0celo7

@DanielSank Ok, how about this. I'll post the question now.

TanMath

@0537 thank you for the advice!

0celo7

I'll contintue to work on my answer.

0537

@TanMath it's your project... if you want to say it's you own work then you shouldn't be asking for this much help.

TanMath

2:42 AM

are you saying there is no role for an advisor in a university? Because, you should do the project yourself!

0celo7

You can write your own, but I'm letting you know right now I won't accept it. (Unless you manage to amaze me beyond belief.)

0537

@TanMath don't depend on others.

TanMath

Probably fourth time I have heard this...*groan*

0celo7

@DanielSank Does that sound like something you'd be interested in?

@DanielSank I'm writing an email to IT. Should I say I emailed a "Google employee"?

DanielSank

@0537 That's not true.

Asking for help is important. Only fools think they should not seek help when it's needed.

Honestly, one of the biggest mistake I see in graduate students I mentor is not asking for help when they need it.

Probably the biggest mistake.

0537

2:47 AM

@DanielSank I used to think that... I got a lot of help in my studies from people here.

Slereah

Reminds me of this song

ww3.haverford.edu/physics-astro/songs/lehrer/questions.htm

DanielSank

@0celo7 Uh, I'm not interested in writing an answer you've already decided to not accept.

TanMath

How weird having an indirect convo...

0537

But I realized that to be truly independent I need to figure out stuff on my own.

Bernard Meurer

@TanMath whathaveyoutried.com

DanielSank

2:48 AM

@Slereah Or this one:

Bill Withers - Lean On Me

►

TanMath

@BernardMeurer huh?.

0celo7

@DanielSank If I make it community wiki and don't accept any answer?

DanielSank

Every student on the planet should read this before ever asking a question on the internet:

catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TanMath

@DanielSank I like this song...

0celo7

@TanMath that's just sad

TanMath

2:54 AM

@0celo7 why?

0celo7

@TanMath because he can't read it

TanMath

Why feel sad?

0537

it's kind of depressing.

TanMath

I am the who should and does feel sad...

0celo7

it's like the dog howling at the door after getting locked out for peeing on the carpet

TanMath

2:55 AM

And you guys shouldn't... You know why?

Bernard Meurer

Why?

TanMath

Because:

15 mins ago, by 0celo7

I don't think anyone else cares, TBH.

0celo7

I'm not sad.

TanMath

You guys do not care about my problems...so stop feeling sad...

DanielSank

@0celo7 Jeezus, man.

TanMath

2:56 AM

3 mins ago, by 0celo7

@TanMath that's just sad

So you do not feel sad?

0celo7

@TanMath Thinking something is sad != feeling sad

@TanMath No.

TanMath

Whatever...

@0celo7 you do not need to think this is sad...you don't care!

0celo7

@TanMath I don't care about your coding problems.

Just like you don't care about my indices.

TanMath

^ ?

0celo7

@DanielSank What?

DanielSank

2:58 AM

@0celo7 We don't know if it's a coding problem because TanMath has refused to try a smaller simpler system.

TanMath

So that is what you are talking about...

0celo7

@DanielSank coding/QM/whatever problem

TanMath

some indices...

0celo7

Yes.

Abstract ones.

TanMath

FINE!!

I will do some two level system...

DanielSank

2:59 AM

Here's another great Bill Withers song:

Bill Withers - Grandma's Hands

►

TanMath

I have no idea where to start...

Transcript for