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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 23:00

1:08 PM
@DavidZ yeah, but unlike the usual ones that I see in the Maxwell equations, I dont really get what E and B what they mean physically when defined in relation to the four potential
@ACuriousMind yeah I get what a gauge transformation is mathematically, but I dont really underatand what this tells me about B and E.
 
@StanShunpike Nothing. :D
(Give me a moment to explain that)
 
No just leave it! It's all a big mystery!
 
@0celo7 lol
 
A gauge transformation does, in essence, precisely nothing. The presence of a gauge transformation means you have superfluous degrees of freedom in your system - you are using more variables than you need to describe your system
Nevertheless, there are good reasons to do this - maybe you don't know how to reduce the d.o.f., maybe the formalism with the additional d.o.f. has a certain advantage
And in the case of electromagnetism, the advantage is a powerful one: It allows us a completely covariant description of the system
 
So this would be analogous to using a 3rd dimension z to describe a 2D spatial world? That is, if my world is a 2D plane, why do I need z?
 
1:18 PM
0
Q: Why do electrons and positrons exhibit opposite helical motion in a magnetic field?

John DuffieldWhen you throw an electron through a solenoid, it moves helically around the field lines, as per this schoolphysics illustration: © Keith Gibbs 2013 Then if we were to throw a positron through the solenoid, it would also move helically, but "the other way". One could liken their paths to left...

hmm... curious
 
@StanShunpike Yes, exactly. But, in this case, the "plane" you would want to reduce to is geometrically very complicated
You can't just throw away one of the components of the four-potential (or the three-potential)
 
...but you can make it zero
 
The transformation that would perform the reduction is quite complicated, and the coordinates you end up with are nothing like the usual $(x,y,z)$ Cartesian coordinates we usually deal with.
 
@ACuriousMind uhm there is $A^3=0$ gauge...
 
@ACuriousMind so you can eliminate that degree of freedom, but at a cost?
 
1:21 PM
@Danu did not see this
 
@Danu @0celo7: That is different from "throwing the coordinate away" - you have to keep the conjugate momentum.
 
I see
 
@StanShunpike Yeah, the cost is that the description becomes less elegant
Sometimes, you might wish to go to a description where you essentially eliminated the d.o.f., that is what gauge fixing is
 
Ohhhhhh cool!
So thats what that is
 
1:24 PM
@Danu : see above. That question came from Bosoneando carping about my answer here about why charged particles move the way that they do. Doubtless somebody will say it's because they're tossing photons back and forth. As if hydrogen atoms twinkle, and magnets shine.
 
So I read about different gauges in Griffiths E&M book, is the superfluousness of this DOF part of why we can choose different gauges? IIRC, he mentioned something called the Coulomb gauge
 
@StanShunpike Yes, gauge fixing is exactly analogous to eliminating the "gauge degree of freedom".
Sometimes, you are not eliminating all the degrees of freedom, that's called a partial gauge
 
Wait, how many extra ones are there?
 
Ehhh...it's a field theory, so that's a bit of a difficult question
"One d.o.f." would essentially be the value of the potential at one point, so since we have four values of the potential at every point we can't really count them
I think the $A^3=0$ gauge isn't partial, though, so on the field level you might think of "one extra d.o.f."
But it's more difficult so say "how many" d.o.f. the differential gauge fixing conditions like the Lorenz gauge fix
 
We need Rigor :P
 
1:29 PM
Hahahaha
 
Because you still have some kind of gauge freedom left after it, but not as much as before
 
So is a gauge freedom then just a term to signify a DOF that manifests through a gauge tranaformation, like the case for B and E in relation to the four potential?
 
@StanShunpike I'm not sure what that sentence means.
2
 
LOL
Let me try again
What is a gauge freedom?
 
@StanShunpike The fact that, if I have more d.o.f. describing my system than I really need, I can do with the superfluous parts of them whatever the hell I want.
 
1:36 PM
Ok that answers an earlier question I had
But what is a gauge freedom? Is this just another way of saying DOF?
@ACuriousMind
 
@StanShunpike Not exactly. It's saying that given one set of variable describing my system, I may change to a different one without changing the physics. (E.g. going from $\vec A = 0$ to $\vec A = \nabla\chi$ in vacuum)
@JohnDuffield Bosoneando is completely correct in asserting that quantum electrodynamics can distinguish between positive and negative charges regardless of the spin of the charged particle, since the Coulomb law derives just from the form of the bosonic propagator of the photon, and Coulomb+special relativity gives Lorentz force.
 
@ACuriousMind can u elaborate a bit more? I am still a bit confused. So does this mean gauge freedom is what allows me to use either Coulomb to Lorentz gauge?
 
@StanShunpike Yes. See, gauge freedom is the statement that, given any $A$, the choice $A+\mathrm{d}\chi$ for any scalar function $\chi$ is completely equivalent.
If you now examine all the gauge choices that are commonly presented to us, you can find that the solutions to the gauge fixing equations are all related to one another by such a $\chi$.
 
Awesome! I am going to go read more and will bbl once I have learned a bit more. Thanks for the help!
 
For example, the statement is that I can use Lorenz gauge, $\partial^\mu A_\mu = 0$. This is achieved by taking any $A$ that describes my system and solving the equation $\partial^\mu \partial_\mu \chi = \partial^\mu A_\mu$. The solution $\chi$ then gives $A'^\mu = A^\mu - \partial^\mu\chi$ with $\partial_\mu A'^\mu = 0$.
This also shows why not all gauge fixings are always desirable - the explicit solution for $\chi$ might be hard to find, and if you can't modify your procedure to get the $A$ in the first place to respect the gauge fixing condition so you don't need to search for $\chi$, then the gauge fixing is not particularly useful
 
2:26 PM
35 close votes...
Particles don't "pop in and out of existence". D:
oh noes
 
@0celo7 Hmmmm? Do you disagree? (It is a comment of mine you are citing, right?)
 
@ACuriousMind No.
Did you ever figure out how Hawking radiation works?
 
@0celo7 Not really. (I also missed the day of that talk, the only one I missed :/) But in the end, I think all it and the Unruh effect tell us is that different observers might disagree on the number of particles in a state, i.e. the notion of particle is simply not an invariant notion in regimes where the Lorentz invariance of special relativity is not enough
But the notion of particle is also not a good notion in strongly interacting theories, so I'm not terribly disturbed by that
Assigning the black hole a temperature and thinking of it as thermal radiation is the way I think of it, and I'm pretty certain the explanation with the "particle pairs forming and one of them falling in" is non-sense.
 
2:44 PM
So you don't know the specifics?
 
Nope. I think @Danu could tell you more, he seems into BH thermodynamics and such
(BH is a weird abbreviation, btw, because it means "bra" in German)
 
3:22 PM
@JohnDuffield Let me be blunt: I've checked the moderator tools concerning inappropriate voting being directed at you at least once a week for the last month, and tihe evidence isn't there.
What there is, is lots of evidence that many people think you are wrong very often.
 
@ACuriousMind Basically Unruh and Hawking effect can be approximately translated into each other in "1 to 1 fashion", sending Rindler $\to $ Boulware vacuum (and corresponding states) and Minkowski $\to$ Kruszkal vacuum (and corresponding states)
 
Stack Exchange sites use crowdsourced evaluation. That makes poorly suited for introducing new ideas, but then introducing new ideas was never what they were designed to do.
The word "wave" in the comment I quoted was not an issue, claiming that it was in particular an electromangnetic wave is a big claim, contradicts successful theories and you would have to back it up with a solution to Maxwell's equations to get it treated seriously.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:42 PM
hello
 
@FenderLesPaul hi
very interesting...
 
interesting indeed
 
Huy
5:23 PM
@0celo7: I think I'll be getting a MBAir after all. Just don't think the retina display of the MB12 can justify the price increase with such a drastic performance drop.
 
@Huy OK
 
6:26 PM
@ACuriousMind howdy
 
@StanShunpike ahoi
 
Hahaha thats a good one!
@ACuriousMind in classical mechanics, we focus a lot on position, velocity, and momentum. Why does quantum mechanics just have this vague term called an "observable"?
 
@StanShunpike Classical Hamiltonian mechanics has the perfectly analogous term of "classical observable"! Those are the smooth functions on the phase space. The phase space is the space of coordinates and momenta, and everything that is classically of interest is a function of those
In fact, the canonical commutation relations $[x,p] = \mathrm{i}\hbar$ come from the classical relation $\{x,p\} = 1$, where $\{\dot{},\dot{}\}$ is the Poisson bracket on the classical observables
So term is not vague at all - the quantum notion of "algebra of observables" is the perfect analogue of "algebra of smooth functions on the phase space"
It's just that, in the classical treatment, you don't have to stress this algebra of functions very much, because position and momentum have simultaneously well-defined values on every possible state, so you can deduce a well-defined value of every classical observable by just knowing its position and momentum
 
@Danu Hey, in case you find the time, the Sinquefield 2015 chess event has started..
@ACuriousMind indeed there seems to be a few interchangeably used terms for observables in CM, smooth functions, differentiable functions, classical observables, I for one always use just observable :D
BTW whatever happened to your blog? @ACuriousMind
 
6:44 PM
@Phonon You need to choose the smooth and not just (n times) differentiable functions because otherwise the Poisson bracket of two observables is not guaranteed to be an observable again.
@Phonon Ah, well, I ran out of things to say very quickly. Or rather, I realized I need to learn about many topics more in depth if I want to write pieces on them I'm not ashamed of when I read them again later on :P
 
@ACuriousMind haha, fair enough :)
 
@ACuriousMind so charge is an observable?
 
@StanShunpike Yes.
In the Hamiltonian formalism, Noetherian charges are the generators of their corresponding symmetry transformations.
Electric charge is a bit of a bad example, though...it only becomes a proper Noetherian charge when you consider matter fields to be complex fields, which one does not usually do classically
 
@StanShunpike yes, one way to convince yourself would be to see that it can be written in terms of the canonical momentum, $\mathbf{P} = m\mathbf{v} + q\mathbf{A}$ with q the charge and A a magnetic vector potential
 
7:02 PM
@Phonon I saw that! And I'll check it out for sure :)
 
7:47 PM
protip: don't do laundry sunday afternoon
apparently the whole dorm thought that was a good idea
 
obe
I did laundry today. What's the issue?
 
you're not in a dorm
you have not lived through the pain
 
ah the old day of living in a dorm
I will never miss them
 
obe
Do you have to have a roommate?
 
for the first year, probably
unless you commute ofc
 
obe
7:50 PM
It seems weird, doesn't matter how I look at it.
 
@FenderLesPaul did you finally get your desktop?
 
I didn't get to go home because of research related stuff so it's being shipped here
@obe me?
if so yes I live with an A Capella group here
 
@FenderLesPaul yes you're weird no matter how you look at it
 
:p
fite me irl
 
obe
Weird is cool.
 
7:53 PM
most of my friends are physics people so I'm used to weird
 
bitch you know where I am
 
I have to readjust my personality everytime I come home
because none of my A Capella peeps are physicists
@0celo7 that's right I do
this is happening
 
@obe are you reading or piddling around
 
I shall reign supreme
 
obe
@0celo7 Sorry, you're right.
 
7:54 PM
the latter is more likely
 
obe
It's sunday though.
 
so?
 
obe
and I'm bored.
 
go play Skyrim
screw off
 
obe
I need to read.
 
7:55 PM
don't come running to us when you don't know how to do something though
 
ooh
shots fired
 
you wouldn't know anything about that
New York pussy
 
obe
You two are part of my resolve though.
 
Be nice to each other, kids.
 
obe
I will come running to you when I need help. lol.
 
7:56 PM
geh weg du alter penner
 
someone's maaad
 
das is jetzt mein gras
 
@0celo7 "That is now my weed" :D
 
@ACuriousMind das auch
Ich nehm dein rasen und dein gras
fuck grammar too
I'm assuming I had to modify dein there?
 
Yeah, it should be deinen Rasen
 
8:00 PM
knew it
 
@obe get back to reading GR
 
what about the pot
 
do the problems
eat lots of carbs
 
und nehme, nehm' is colloquial
 
get sleep
 
8:00 PM
he needs QM more than GR
 
fuck QM
 
@ACuriousMind I knew that too
 
@0celo7 it's der Rasen, but das Gras, so dein Gras is fine
 
ok because gras is neutral
got it
see in the Pfalz we just amputate half the words
so it all works out :D
 
When talking, it's fine, most people do that, but in writing, it's not
How did you know I'm called that? :O
 
8:05 PM
Ich weiss solche dinge
;)
Dein Mesiter? Du kannst ihn gar nicht verstehen.
 
@Rigor I am as rigorous with language as I am with everything else ;)
 
I read that as "vigorous"
oh my
 
Vigor comes before Rigor.
 
Deine Mutter kommt vor Rigor...
@ACuriousMind uh bevor is not a German word, is it?
It's just vor, right?
 
obe
@Rigor Are you going to change your name now?
 
8:11 PM
@FenderLesPaul I agree, but he doesn't need to know GR
 
obe
@0celo7 I do, though it's less important than qm right now.
 
why if you're taking an intro class on it
 
obe
True, I can learn it then.
 
To vigor? Nah, one change per month is allowed by the system @obe
 
obe
@Rigor Remember I found a breach in the SE system?
 
8:13 PM
Orly?
 
obe
Jul 14 at 16:05, by obe
@JimsBond Change your name on a beta site, and it will change it across the network, even if 30 days is not over.
 
@0celo7 everyone should know GR
 
@obe thanks pal, good to know :)
 
@0celo7 Both bevor and vor are German words. Bevor is solely a "temporal word", akin to the archaic English "ere", while vor is a "spatial word", akin to "in front of".
 
obe
I also figured out how to change your profile image instantly in chat.
 
8:15 PM
@FenderLesPaul hence that matrix GR book
 
@obe that sounds handy.
Perhaps I need a more rigorous avatar :)
I can't think of one off the top of my head :-/
 
obe
Ask your master.
 
I am thinking.
 
Whitehead and Russell's principia mathematica?
 
8:22 PM
But finding a visual representation of the abstract concept of stringency and logical clarity turns out to be non-trivial ;P
 
obe
Your face?
 
365 pages to prove 1 + 1 = 2
 
@obe lolwut
I will not graft my own face onto my servant.
 
How about a picture of Kurt Godel?
Or Dirac, was known for his Rigor
 
obe
Pale in comparison to your master's rigor.
 
8:30 PM
I wil let my master decide.
 
Okay, this is getting out of hand :D
 
@obe care to share?
 
obe
Sync your profile, then change your main site to and back to physics.
<5 seconds.
 
Cool, thanks.
 
8:45 PM
bored
 
obe
Where did 0celo7 disappear?
 
idk
but I finally figured out a calculation ive been stuck on for like 2 weeks
so I shall reward myself with cookies
 
obe
Insomnia cookies?
 
yessir
 
And milk?
 
obe
8:51 PM
@FenderLesPaul occasional-biscuit-eater approves.
 
sure why not
 
@obe lol
 
in Mathematics, 9 mins ago, by Kasper
> Euclid: The Game gamifies the 2300 years old book "The Elements" written by the ancient Greek mathematician Euclid in Alexandria.

> Euclid's Elements has been referred to as the most successful and influential textbook ever written. The first level of the game is exactly the first theorem of this ancient book. Throughout the levels you unlock constructions, once you prove you are able to make them.

> The web game (http://euclidthegame.com) is played by 500.000 users in in 213 different countries, we hope that as much people will enjoy the much improved iOS game (to be released september
in Mathematics, 5 mins ago, by Kasper
@MikeMiller Ah, well, if you (or anyone else) is interested, you can send your email adress (associated with your appstore account) to beta@euclidthegame.com. And I will make sure you can download it.
 
@obe BF4
I'm addicted
This is what happened sophomore year of high school
Bye bye 4.0
Halp
@FenderLesPaul you should get BF4 when your PC arrives
 
9:07 PM
@0celo7 have you tried the "Euclid game"?
 
I'm not really into FPS these days
I find them too addicting and then my productivity in work and music goes down
sacrifices
:p
 
obe
@0celo7 ::launches EMP::
 
9:19 PM
@Rigor no
also I've been told I won't finish the homework
wtf
I have to get my shit together
@obe I know Prof. Dydak will accept late work if you do that
 
Aug 19 at 12:22, by skull patrol
Seriously, you should cut back on your internet chat time until you get settled in.
 
9:37 PM
huh, my engineering homework is in MathJax
well almost
 
10:08 PM
@Rigor no
chat is not the culprit here
it's gaems
 
10:28 PM
^ I coulda told ya that
Games do that to everyone lol
 
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