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8:01 PM
@ACuriousMind OH, I see now. When we write the commutation relations in matrix notation and take linear combinations of the operators, we get the Lie algebra of $\mathfrak{su}(2)\times\mathfrak{su}(2)$, right?
@KyleKanos The result he mentions is zero, so I don't see how it is proportional to the vector. (I think, the question is vague enough that I may be wrong.)
@ACuriousMind Now does $\mathrm{O}(3,1)$ cover $\mathrm{SU}(2)\times \mathrm{SU}(2)$ or is it just isomorphic?
 
@0celo7 That's a bit tricky, let me dig out the relevant Qmechanic post ;)
18
A: How do I construct the $SU(2)$ representation of the Lorentz Group using $SU(2)\times SU(2)\sim SO(3,1)$ ?

QmechanicHere is a mathematical derivation. We use the sign convention $(+,-,-,-)$ for the Minkowski metric $\eta_{\mu\nu}$. I) First recall the fact that $SL(2,\mathbb{C})$ is (the double cover of) the restricted Lorentz group $SO^+(1,3;\mathbb{R})$. This follows partly because: There is a bi...

 
I bet I've read it before and didn't understand it. Perhaps now I have a chance.
@ACuriousMind Ahh, why $\oplus$ and not $\times$?
Or is this the same because insert Urs Schreiber?
 
There's a lot of complexification and compactification going on there
@0celo7 It is the same here, but one usually uses $\oplus$ for vector spaces (which Lie algebras are). Be careful, there is no $\oplus$ for the groups.
 
@0celo7 I concur that I don't know what he means. However, it should be clear what result he is talking about ;)
 
There is no $\oplus$ for groups in general?
 
8:08 PM
No, because $\oplus$ is required to be both the product and the coproduct, but the product and coproduct of groups are two different things.
(I think we had this debate before :D )
 
I know, and I didn't understand what the hell you were talking about then either :P
So what, in your expert opinion, is, say, the third homotopy group of $\mathrm{SO}(4)$?
Because I was taught it is $\mathbb{Z}\oplus\mathbb{Z}$.
But now you're saying $\oplus$ does not make sense?
 
@0celo7 Ah, abelian groups have an $\oplus$, because they're just $\mathbb{Z}$-modules
 
Sweet Jesus.
 
Nice, isn't it? :D (I see why this is confusing, but since, whenever there is an $\oplus$, it coincides with $\times$, you need not worry about this, I think)
 
So where in that post does he answer my question?
 
8:16 PM
@0celo7 A bit indirectly in the footnote, where he pokes fun at Zee's wrong statement (very similar to yours). $\mathrm{SO}(3,1)$ and $\mathrm{SU}(2)\times\mathrm{SU}(2)$ are not directly related by an isomorphy or covering (which you can see by noting that one is compact, but not the other)
The representation theory of the Lorentz group is a very ugly thing
 
@ACuriousMind As wrong as it is, it is contained in every introductory text on the subject.
 
Hi, if I have a ball that is 2.0 kg and oscillating on a spring that has a force constant of 50 N/m, then what is the velocity of the ball at 1.5 m from equilibrium? I tried U = .5 kx^2 = 56.25, then 56.25 = .5 mv^2, solved for v and got 7.5, but this is wrong
 
So what does it mean, to the most anal pedant in the world, that given the generators of the proper orthochronous Lorentz group I can get two separate $\mathrm{SU}(2)$ copies?
 
@0celo7 Yes. And it's wrong. The representation theory allows you to classify representations of $\mathrm{SO}(3,1)$ by representations of $\mathrm{SU}(2)\times\mathrm{SU}(2)$, though, so I guess many make that wrong statement because they don't want to do delve into the details and think the reader will accept it if they wave their hands and say "isomorphy"
 
@Pallas Is the equilibrium above or below this point? In that case you have to account for the gravitational potential.
 
8:19 PM
it's horizontal
 
@Pallas How wrong are you?
 
the answer is 4.3 m/s
 
@Pallas Well if the ball is still touching the spring (compressing it a bit) you have to account for the little bit of potential still in the spring.
i.e. not all of that potential at the beginning is being transferred into kinetic.
 
so if the max displacement is 2 m, then Potential = (2 kg)(50 N/m)(2 m) = 200 J?
Then i don't really know what to do
 
@Pallas Try solving $.5 k(2)^2=.5k(.5)^2+.5mv^2$, but I'm not sure about that.
@ACuriousMind I like hand waving.
 
8:25 PM
@0celo7 you have that the complexification of $\mathfrak{su}(2)\oplus\mathfrak{su}(2)$ is isomorphic to the complexification of $\mathfrak{so}(3,1)$, I think, since the complexification of $\mathfrak{su}(2)$ is $\mathfrak{sl}(2,\mathbb{C})$. (I'm not as sure as usual about what I've written here, but I think it's right)
 
@0celo7 I got 6.7 for velocity
 
But isomorphy of the complexifications does not imply isomorphy of the real forms, and does not imply isomorphy of the corresponding groups. It does imply that the reps of the groups are very closely related, however, and that is all we physicists want to use
 
@Pallas Wait, if it's oscillating, doesn't it have to have a velocity at the eq point?
 
I don't really know
 
@Pallas The original question you asked doesn't give a max displacement. You later said 2m. Is that from the question or is that something you came up with?
 
8:39 PM
it's form the question
 
@ACuriousMind What the heck does a $\leftrightarrow$ on top of $\partial_\mu$ mean?
 
@0celo7 Usually something like $f\overset{\leftrightarrow}{\partial}g := f(\partial g) - (\partial f) g$ (note the sign)
 
I went to a history class today. It is required to get a degree. I now remember why I hate history and love physics: historians never provide actual evidence.
 
@ACuriousMind Ok, so what is it doing in (7.229a')?
@StanShunpike There are those of us who love both.
(Also I would argue that they do provide evidence.)
@ACuriousMind Integration by parts?
@ACuriousMind Where does the anticommutator come from then?
 
8:51 PM
@0celo7 I think the author (cryptically) tells you: "we have added total derivative terms to the Lagrangian"
 
@0celo7 More power to you.
 
@ACuriousMind 2cryptic4me
What does a total derivative have to do with an anticommutator of algebraic constructs?
 
@0celo7 Yeah, I don't immediately see it either, but I'm inclined to believe him ;) The anticommutator is probably just a compact way to write a term with order $\Sigma\gamma$ succintly (note that the order $\gamma\Sigma$ was already present)
Don't ask me what was added, though, I don't know anything about spin connections.
 
@ACuriousMind Y u no QTF in curved spacetime?
Don't you love magnets?
(Reference in a reference there.)
 
Heh, I've enough to do with understanding it as much as I'd like in flat space :P
 
8:57 PM
@ACuriousMind I'll skip it unless it turns out to be crucial to string theory somehow.
6 pages until chap 8 "complex manifolds"
 
9:16 PM
@ACuriousMind This guy has a point.
 
@0celo7 Uh, glass decelerates light. It's not that hard :P
 
@ACuriousMind So can air.
I think the point is it can do it really well.
Your thesis: "Bose-Einstein Condensates in General Relativity. A Topological Survey. (BTW this shit can slow light beams!!)"
 
@0celo7 He doesn't have a very good point, many people are concentrating on it. So there's no need to say we need to concentrate on it
 
@Jimnosperm It was meant as a joke.
It is 4chan.
 
@0celo7 Hmmmm..... My humour circuits seem to have been disabled. How did that happen? No wonder I haven't gotten any jokes recently. Problem solved
 
9:25 PM
I didn't get the joke either, but I don't get 4chan, in general.
 
::sigh:: Old people.
 
::shakes fist:: Get off my lawn!
 
::sigh:: young people
 
@ACuriousMind The sidewalk is public property, grandpa!
 
You know, back in my day kids had more respect for their elders
 
9:29 PM
@Jimnosperm You also had polio.
 
And small pox
 
And scarlet fever.
 
And the bubonic plague
 
@Jimnosperm I'm so sorry for what you experienced back in the days...I'll be more respectful from now on.
Does this guy have a point at all?
 
@0celo7 That's all we ask of the young'uns
 
9:39 PM
I've been blocked from researching a specific topic or solution to a problem before by a paywall.
 
Paywalls pay for peer-reviewed journals to exist. And without those, science becomes untrustworthy
 
@Jimnosperm They are ridiculously expensive for those of us not affiliated with a university.
 
Be thankful that the arXiv is making a large part of current stuff available to everyone.
 
user54412
@0celo7 The counterargument would be that those not affiliated with a university are contributing a negligible amount to society's total research (or they are pharmaceuticals and so can buy any access they want).
 
@0celo7 That's true, but I can't think of a practical way of avoiding that
 
9:44 PM
@Jimnosperm I don't quite see where all the money is going to, though. It's not like anyone doing the sciencey stuff gets paid.
 
user54412
I'm not saying it's a good setup, but there are always terms on both sides of a cost-benefit analysis
 
@alarge Reviewers, editors, publishers, operating expenses, licensing, etc, etc
 
@Jimnosperm Reviewers do it voluntarily, there's no pay.
 
Not with that attitude
 
@ACuriousMind Check out the typesetting in this book.
 
user54412
9:46 PM
Also, in the long run, it's not clear where savings would come from. My entire field (astrophysics) is by-and-large open access, but all that means is that we authors have to pay to publish. Thus to get the same amount of research we need comparatively more grant money.
 
@0celo7 sans serif font? And the element symbols &co. look horrible.
 
@ACuriousMind It's on my to-read list in the far future, but the typesetting...
 
And it's not like the money goes to operating expenses either, see e.g. this.
 
Apparently 65% of it goes to operating expenses
Even if they were non-profit, it would be $25 to download a PDF instead of $40. That's still higher than most non-affiliated researchers would pay
 
It's $40 because non-affiliated researchers, i.e. companies, do pay.
In this day and age there is no good reason to have massive publishers sucking out the little money that academia has. Peer review doesn't cost much, and the quality is often dismal anyway. It merely serves to give the appearance of reliability or "novelness" even when the papers are in fact lacking both.
2
But that's publish or perish for you, I guess.
 
10:02 PM
@ACuriousMind Do you know anything about modular forms?
In particular, how to draw the quotient space $H/\mathrm{PSL}(2,\mathbb{Z})$?
 
@0celo7 Not a single thing
 
@ACuriousMind I'm not even sure what I'm looking for, so my Google searching is rather difficult.
And any proof I do find is 100 pages into a number theory text.
Wtf Google Books. I found an elementary proof on page 4 of one book and it doesn't show page 5 which is the second half.
 
10:46 PM
@MarkMitchison hello
 
11:41 PM
-2
Q: Could dark energy be what we think is spacetime?

Rock444I find it difficult to wrap my brain around how energy/matter, chemical reactions and resultant entropy or waste heat exist in abstract spacetime. First, how can a clock measure "time" without energy? In addition, how can mass move through space without energy? I am thinking that energy may be...

So take a look at my first comment and then the posted answer
Should I be a bit upset here?
 
@Jimnosperm The first sentence is exactly what I would have said, if that means anything.
 
@0celo7 No doubt, that's what it is. But in combination with the second sentence, I'm feeling a bit like my words have been stolen. Plus, my analogy is so much more apt than his
 
@Jimnosperm Obviously, "Jimmy" is another of your fans.
 
Alas, the life of a celebrity
 
@Jimnosperm I seem to have confused myself. How do we know that energy is locally conserved in GR?
 
11:51 PM
Because locally we have minkowski space and that has time-translation symmetry
 
So it has nothing to do with $\nabla_\mu T^{\mu\nu}=0$?
>carts carry people
Lol
@Jimnosperm I thought that we cannot have local energy conservation in GR because the energy-momentum tensor of the gravitational field is not well-defined.
 
That's relevant. Energy and momentum are not conserved globally, but the energy-momentum tensor is conserved. Locally, we can construct a pseudotensor for energy and momentum that is always conserved, thereby meaning that energy and momentum are individually conserved locally
 
Oh yeah the pseudotensor.
So fundamentally why can't it be conserved globally?
 
I don't think anything says it can't just that it isn't
 
@Jimnosperm Are you sure you're not putting the horse before the cart?
 
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