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2:51 AM
@Rarst fix?
 
 
6 hours later…
8:43 AM
@userabuser yeah, I needed two things to fire one after another on FileUploaded event, but since it's magical async crap second one was running too early
 
@Wyck :D
 
WordPress community: Breathe and take a step back from themes, salaries, and classifications and appreciate the strong ecosystem you're in.
har har
 
 
3 hours later…
11:25 AM
Does my Nigeria account on GitHub 404 for you?
 
yes
 
seems like they silently shut down nearly all of my organisations
 
to be honest this isn't really a surprise ;)
 
The silently is a surprise. Also I can still see them all in my sidebar. That's strange.
 
well...ask github support then (which will probably lead to them shutting it down completely I think)
 
11:28 AM
already did
hopefully. it's annoying to have 30 organisations when 26 are 404s
 
I assume they silence it to see if you do something useful with it and then decide to re-enable or delete it
 
can't do anything useful with it when they 404, right?
 
hm...right...
maybe the sidebars are cached?
I once again have read through https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23912 trying to get a deeper understanding of composer workflows.

Basically it seems to be a mess with various workarounds:

- https://github.com/johnpbloch/wordpress (using https://github.com/johnpbloch/wordpress-core-installer)
- https://github.com/roots/bedrock (using https://github.com/fancyguy/webroot-installer)

Basically from what I've seen they both do the same:

- define a custom type (wordpress-core or webroot)
- customize the install path
 
that ticket is declared Should Not Be Mentioned. for your information.
John's approach is battle tested for now, 1K+ install a month now, easy (via Packagist stats).
 
Sorry, I can feel your pain.
 
11:39 AM
I don't like "root"/fancyguy approach, but that's me. it's too WordPress-thinking, where it has to be center of the universe because WordPress.
 
-------------------------
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   dev/templates/php/functions.php
 
Can you explain this to me? I do not really see a difference
 
I stay away from "roots" things in general, devs have strange (strictly speaking for my taste) opinions and history of being inflammatory about them.
 
great encoding messed up...
 
@kraftner hm, actually by now webroot installer seems nearly identical. note it hadn't been updated in a long time, so my opinions on it are pretty old by now.
 
11:41 AM
UTF-8 w/o BOM. works in one file not the other... damn
 
if you ask me use John's package
PS bedrock still uses hardcoded custom core package? bleh. :)
 
yep that turned me off as well
Its just the fact that there website looks so polished...looks like I am easily fooled by shiny packaging ;)
 
that's their story in a nutshell :) bunch of fans who like shiny and bunch of people, who like to look under the hood, running away screaming :)
 
So thanks, you practically confirmed what I assumed already anyway. And sorry once again for touching this unspeakable trac issue ;)
 
the most controversial thing in roots historically was rewriting URLs to wp-content. could never coherently explain why bother, but were very loud against people questioning it.
please note I do not claim they are doing something especially horrible, but they are difficult, I am difficult, so I am staying away from their things for myself :)
 
11:47 AM
well once tried roots, never again. the theme is a no-go already. just had a look at bedrock because it was the only project offering a whole stack composer/capistrano/vagrant
well who isn't difficult in some way... ;)
 
why Capistrano?
 
the url rewriting made me tear my hair out as well...
@kaiser well - deployment? Any opposition to it @kaiser?
 
Long time ago since I played fooled around with it. I was looking into git subtree or orphaned branches in the meanwhile. Not kool. Now I'm thinking about just using Git hooks for that. Something like removing everything in the root on a special deploy branch and moving contents from the www dir to the root.
Problem is that nearly all installs are completely different. Currently I got a repo on server one (shared between devs) and the site will live completely elsewhere.
But could as well just be a git repo outside the public folder, so having the repo just one level deeper and the deploy folder just has the same name as the public folder might do it as well...
 
can't really follow the first part...
 
@kraftner look at git subtree - it's possible to misuse it for deploy tasks instead of the original purpose (replacement for git submodules)
or have you been asking about the "removing part"?
 
11:55 AM
the removing part
 
Imagine the following structure of a repo:
 
From my point of view capistrano has some advantages to just deploying via git. Like keeping old versions (think rollbacks) and additonal tasks like automating backups or migration of DB and uploads. But I am still in the "fooling around" phase reading about how it all works. Just doing my spring, now already becoming summer workflow cleanup...
 
 \
 ├─ .cache
 ├─ config
 ├─ dev
 ├─ log
 ├─ vendor
 ├─ www
 ├─ .file.ext
And www is your deploy folder.
 
ok. go on.
 
When you now push to your server: What's the easiest task to tell the server where your www folder is and where to look for the index.html or whatever file?
(aside from using a .htaccess or similar file)
My idea was to remove all contents from the root folder and just move the contents of the www to the root - on a special branch via a post-receive git hook.
 
anu
12:01 PM
@kraftner capistrano works very well for me - it's now my default deployment mechanism
 
just an idea
 
I still hadn't decided which PHP hipsterism I will go with for deploy stuff :)
 
@anu do you have some write up of your mechanism?
would be interesting to see that in detail
 
Robo is now confidently my not-Grunt
 
anu
@kaiser wordpress.stackexchange.com/a/83222/490 - an old answer, but still, mostly valid
 
12:05 PM
@Rarst Same for me. My file where I collect my research on improving my workflow is now 200+ lines. It is just keywords and links...
 
@anu already upvoted that back then. still not sure about it, but from a brief look it seems a valid approach.
@kraftner gist or it didn't happen
 
@Rarst Robo?
 
@Rarst cool glad you got it sorted.. I love JS because of that very reason, all the magic that fucks you over makes it really enjoyable language to work with.
 
@kaiser Waaayyyy to chaotic for now. But when this all leads to a solution I'll use I'll show it.
 
12:09 PM
robo <3
 
@userabuser I have a roadblock of bunch of (surprisingly) working JS spaghetti (by me) which needs to turn into something manageable in the future...
 
@Rarst Thanks, will have a look at it.
 
Trying to bring order to JS is like trying to push water up a hill... but if you ever need help, give me a shout.
 
It's so easy to get lost in javascript
 
..btw what you working on?
 
12:11 PM
@userabuser it's paid work :) was under "maybe" in current minor version so I did couple fair attempts and gave up :)
 
@kaiser Any concrete issues you see?
 
@ungestaltbar yeah! We have this awesome namespace module loader... there's so much closure magic going on I can safely say that I only understand 95% of my code, the other 5% is pure voodoo.
@Rarst aha! at least you are getting paid for the stress
 
@userabuser this thing jennybeaumont.com/made-le-shop
 
ES6 will be/is a huge improvement
 
@ungestaltbar it will be a godsend to be honest
 
12:13 PM
@userabuser first time javascript makes sense
 
@Rarst omg... haha freaky, I've worked on and off on a colleagues project that does same thing but for T-shirts. (not woocommerce related though).
@ungestaltbar yeah and you know what the kicker is? We will have to wait forever in a life-time for everyone to support it.
...Shim shimmy shim time.
 
@userabuser it's a little more involved since clients are buying printable PDF, not physical product/printout
 
@Rarst if you ever need help with it let me know because I started to make one for my website when I owned my cake shop, to do cake-toppers. Don't know if I mentioned that I owned a cake shop before to you.
I used to do the custom prints for cakes myself... great fun
 
we heard cake shop story like five times already :D
 
I've just started to rewrite my stuff with "traceur" and the es6-module-loader, according to the 'pros' out there, it's save to use
 
12:17 PM
that's weird, who's telling my stories behind my back?
 
I'll put you under potential kamikaze for JS refactor :)
you are
 
Im such a bastard
anyway just telling you, because I used to do that very shit...
good luck on the project anyway.
 
I am almost done with 1.1, but most important feature to give clients way to make and order multiple version of same product... it's going to end me :\
 
@ungestaltbar yeah as soon as any pro says its ok I'm all over it and then realize I'm screwed :D... How you finding anyway? Thoughts?
@Rarst hummm....really man?
 
really what?
 
12:20 PM
Maybe I'm not seeing the problems you are.
 
didn't I say WooCommerce?
 
sorry I didn't read the fine print.
Welcome to the Wooniverse!
4
 
I got SVG sources, I got set of user edits, I got WooCommerce products, and virtual WooCommerce downloads
 
you're screwed.
 
now I need to make all of that support sets of multiple edits for same combination of SVG and product and different downloads
 
12:22 PM
one too many woos
2
 
@userabuser they took some good parts from coffee script, the module system is pretty flexible and feels way better than using browserify and such.
this article is one which gives an good practical impression: http://blog.tastejs.com/rewriting-a-webapp-with-ecmascript-6
It's the end of the namespacing dilemma
 
@ungestaltbar which is my current dilemma
@Rarst doable but I see the challenge ahead...
 
two challenges. one is interface (site wasn't made with MDM in mind at all), two is
"explaining" this stuff to WooCommerce
 
@kraftner no
@userabuser you are an endless source of qwooutes
 
@Rarst The UI stuff for me is usually the easy part to tackle, regardless of how far off the mark the implementation is, where you really got to watch out is with Woo..
@kaiser One day Woo will fuck you too and when it does, you will join me.
 
12:30 PM
Print that on T-Shirts
 
You know what I will.
What's your size, I will send you one from cafepress.com
 
and on the cakes.
 
Hey did you know I owned a cake shop?
 
YES
 
sorry, louder, I can't hear you.
@kaiser Would you wear that shirt to a WordCamp with me?
 
12:31 PM
__   _______ ____
\ \ / / ____/ ___|
 \ V /|  _| \___ \
  | | | |___ ___) |
  |_| |_____|____/
 
@userabuser I guess M
 
@Rarst Now if you put that same effort into your JS you will be all good.
 
there is no web app for JS...
 
JS can not be harder than Woo
 
WooCommerce isn't hard stuff at all, honestly. I've seen way worse.
 
12:35 PM
Except for when you combine the two together.
yeah like wp-ecommerce plugin for one
 
I am a newbie and I touched wp-ecommerce once, I nearly stopped wp-everything because of that
 
I don't blame you.
I wanted renounce my years of programming because of that plugin.
 
and remember — anything public you see is still better than things that people code in private
 
@Rarst anyone who is willing to make a go of it should get respect....
 
more often I disrespect for attitude than code. having a bug? that's life. ignoring issue on github about said bug for a year? that's not worth using.
and by "ignoring" I don't even mean "not fixing", but not even bothering to acknowledge and participate in discussion
 
12:40 PM
yes of course... but then again open source doesn't come with any warranties.
are you talking about people being ignorant and rude? I've seen that on GH issue trackers
 
of course, but I am not demanding anything am I? I just won't use it and say so :)
WP in general has pretty poor bar of developer attitude. many simply hadn't figured out this open source stuff much, beyond throwing source in public.
and well, we all know how swell and inspiring trac is.
 
WP is a good stomping ground for people wanting to make a quick buck which is what also perpetuates the problems we see.
Soul-crushing inspiring.
 
whenever I report/PR something outside of WP bubble I am constantly surprised how, well, professionally it's commonly handled
 
Well I am trying to learn it to make money with it, but I believe that I should strive to follow some best practices
 
I seldom read trac anymore except for when someone pokes disgust at a ticket in chat here...
 
12:43 PM
but I have not a GH profile yet
 
good attitude.
@Rarst REAL engineers. Big difference.
 
@userabuser but I started to do the stuff I learned during my apprenticeship (svn, codemanagement, comment my code (readability > efficiency)
I guess the next logical step would be GH, huh?
 
Well you've been fortunate to start off on good grounds...
well GH, BB or any personal open source projects IF you want to put stuff out there or go make something premium... whatever you want.
Start answering questions on our site here....
its all open source too
 
I am trying but most of the stuff would be in the area of: "I had to google for that answer too." So I much rather wait for a person who has real expierence to answer... well for now.
 
But that also aids you in your own ability to seek answers to questions and expand your knowledge.
 
12:49 PM
open schwartz
 
muha
 
@mebu83 I think we've all got this feeling very often. And it is okay. But if I think something is interesting or might be useful for myself at some point you could still try to solve it.
 
@mebu83 We all answer questions by reading through core files, google it, search source via queryposts.com or read it up in Codex. Else we would close all questions as already answered. :)
If you want to start answering, here's the starting point for your local install:
<?php
/** Plugin Name: (WPSE) Testing things... */
// add code tests here
 
That's actually an awesome idea, well I created a local install just for SE, called www.f**karoundwithme.ch
:)
with a clean commit to my svn repo
so when I am done testing I just pull again a commit
Of course the DB will be filling up with crap, but that would be the case in both instances, right?
 
drop tables, clean up.
run a maintenance script
or use faker when you need to do some quick and dirty testing with data sets
 
1:04 PM
or just use a plugin. there are several out there that reset the DB back to default - even some that do it for single sites in a multisite install.
 
Will do, thanks for the pointers guys!
 
anyone here had issues lately trying to using the panTo method on a google map?
 
got a jsbin or fiddle?
 
1:20 PM
panTo? should work.
interesting example I made on a moving map with panTo.
proud of it
 
1:33 PM
@userabuser nope, its a whole plugin, extracting the relevant parts is tantamount to open sourcing it
setcenter and panto used to work
now neither work
where main.js is on a google server
 
@TomJNowell All I can really say is that I wish more people would use the word tantamount.
 
@userabuser +1 :)
 
1:50 PM
@TomJNowell sure that you have to correct loading order?
 
warrior forum going strong as the the sess pool of the web
 
I know couple dudes robbing the huddled masses on a regular basis there with their regular WSOs.
Circle Jerk City.
Just an aside though, WP plugins do well there.
I think Freelancer.com invested heavily or bought the WF recently...
 
I somehow managed to register to the Warrior Forums newsletter ages ago. Now I get regular updates on what happens there. It was sold recently and the new guy really tries hard to convince people in his newsletter that "great and better times are coming" :D
 
lol
 
2:02 PM
why are they so hung up on "white label" over there? generate more crap sales via affiliate?
 
It's the same shit year after year, some people selling the same products to each other weekly.
 
I remember some dude packing up 200+ plugins into a "product" :D
 
@Rarst Low-level marketer types.
They love that kind of stuff.
 
the thread was hilarious :)
 
good laugh
 
Finally!
oh thank god
"For The First Time I’m Revealing My Secret SEO/Money Making Plugin " - yeah to 30,000 people...
@Rarst lol hahaha... that cover is hilarious!
"200 million dollar plugins"
 
> This is the equivalent of buying a can of Coke and Spite, and selling them in a 2-pack as Spoke!
 
haha
 
and I mean you can actually make a pack like that and get away with it :) but no, need lie about "special rights" an crap :D
also I'd like to see someone try install those 200 plugins and enable :D
 
bulk activating 200 WP plugins. sun freezes.
 
2:12 PM
lol
 
Before activating 200 WP plugins happens, Palestine will be a sovereign state.
 
Understanding what GPL really implies is terribly hard. I mean 100% understanding, not 99%. But these are definitely way off...
 
GPL has zero relevance there because plugin in question is not 100% GPL or compatible
 
@kaiser impressive how you manage to introduce politics on that topic ;)
 
Reading Warrior Forums threads is like watching YouTube cat fail videos.
 
2:14 PM
you never even get to GPL part before breaking everything about marketplace license there
 
@Rarst In what way? (I am not familiar with the marketplace licences) Do they have some weird trick, because afaik at least the php part of anything WP has to be GPL?
 
they split license. GPL for PHP code, marketplace license for everything else.
 
Okay the usual. Always wondered what would happen if you just tear out the non-GPL part and replace it with your own...
 
would be harder than make it from scratch :)
 
Well, I think that depends. If it is just some imgs and css, maybe a js file or two and the rest is php, why not?
 
2:19 PM
had you seen "JS file or two" in any complex plugin? :D
 
"Guide to the GPL, how to make millions understanding licensing - BUY NOW"
 
(I am not implicating that I believe that this is morally acceptable...)
@Wyck I can't remember how many blog posts, conversations,... I had promising that and never delivering...
 
"morally unacceptable" is what people say when they don't like what other people do under GPL
3
 
@kraftner Pagekit, Impresspages, Bolt and the other stuff @Rarst mentioned yesterday. Quite some potential replacements for WP that might keep you from trying to get into GPL mess.
 
okay I think you get me wrong, I do not want to get rid of GPL. I've just wondered that I haven't seen this being done as afaik this is a valid (legally) approach
 
2:23 PM
because it's not worth it effort-wise
 
@Rarst Well yes. I am aware that there is a difference between something being not cool and something being illegal.
@Rarst probably
 
and licenses establish legality, not morality :)
if you want to establish morality start a religion that tells how to use your code :)
 
Morals and licensing .. Oy vey
 
this is the core issue of GPL :) it's instrument of one, that strives to be instrument of both
 
 
2:28 PM
You are right. Still it is (morally) abused on the ground of the legal weakness less often than I'd expect looking at general behaviour of people.
 
it's all his fault
 
But maybe I watch to much news and politics and stuff to have a better opinion of humans in general ;)
 
oh wow I found a better one
I-bless-your-computer-my child.jpg
 
lol
 
hm this one has some issues here in austria/germany
 
2:31 PM
@kraftner because abuse-resistance is one of the points of open source :)
 
last one lol
 
@kraftner seriously?.. that's not even close to hitler salute
I wish people stop making this an issue where it's not
been really unpleasant joke at my expense at WordCamp Switzerland
 
people can get *really * picky on that... but of course depends on who does it. probably fine here. For someone who is already seen as right-wing it might be some cm to much upwards...
@Rarst like?
 
@kraftner rolls eyes those people must not have any high shelves in their homes too...
 
Really? I was at WCCH, but I missed your talk.
 
2:34 PM
not worth rehashing
 
@Rarst aye!
 
he simply doing a "blessing" do you have churches around there
 
figured out my gmaps problem
 
@Wyck Yes. A lot. That is what I mean by "depends on who does it". Context...
 
it doesnt complain when you pass in a null into a latlng
 
2:36 PM
his blessing is 15 degrees too high, if you go that high you must sland your hand!
 
well these kind of degree discussions you are making fun of actually happen. but lets stop this know. shouldn't have brought it up
ouch. know=now
 
I have to double @kraftner here. As Hitlers point of origin we have quite some discussion around it.
6 days until 100 years "Start of WWI"
Guess who started it: The guy who was named exactly like me
 
again an austrian
 
Exactly
 
and I am from [ex-Soviet] Ukraine. it's bullshit to make this an issue whenever people move hands around.
 
2:48 PM
As Austrians we can make quite some point: We invented World War.
And one of us even wrote the sequel.
 
@Rarst Well, yes. But I prefer making a fuss of it more often than necessary instead of ignoring it too often.
 
@kaiser which is....awesome I guess
 
@kraftner wait until someone makes that fuss about you without any reason whatsoever and take notes on how that makes you feel
 
@ialocin Gladly everybody outside of Austria still thinks Hitler was German.
 
I thought he was Ekimo.
 
2:51 PM
yea, tell me about it...
 
@Rarst Believe me I stopped counting the number of situations that happened.
 
@Rarst You really just have to accept the point that this is an issue over here. Especially with a right wing party that will probably be #1 with the next elections.
 
then don't spread the joy around? :)
 
luckily I have long hair and such, which makes me kind of unsuspicious
 
@kaiser so it's excuse to make it the issue in international chat about american?
 
2:53 PM
Okay. Got me. I take it back and promise I'll think about it one more time next time.
 
In the U.S. people run around and wave the Nazi flag. It should be much more of an issue over there.
but nvm.
 
Enough for now.
 
everyone here knows hitler was born in Austria and had a jewish father who was the illegitimate son of the Rothschild barons - duh
 
I propose another topic. How do you manage wp-config stuff in various environments? Just don't put wp-config.php in repo? Some php ENV magic?
 
local-config.php
 
2:56 PM
.gitignore
 
For all those who can read German and know about Josef S. - found guilty
 
@kaiser Can't be...
 
Netzsperren rechtmäßig, Antifaschismus nicht. Mir österreichts grad... #freejosef
@kraftner even changed the reason on the last day - just to get something on him
They even called him a Terrorist. How sick is that?
 
@kaiser Let's keep this talk for a beer after the next meetup...
 
I'm not sure if I will attend another one
 
3:02 PM
@kaiser Well then maybe some other day. Too much politics here already today...
 
yeah
 
3:18 PM
@kraftner that's a really elegant way to to solve this. Love it
 
You could also set it in environment variables: roots.io/twelve-factor-03-config but i like the other approach I linked to before more
 
4:15 PM
How important is it to check if ABSPATH is defined in plugin files and exit if not?
 
absolutely pointless?..
 
Why do so many plugins do that then?
example...

// don't load directly
if (!defined('ABSPATH')) die('-1');
I see it all the time in tons of plugins.
 
because many developers are ritualistic copy/pasters? :)
 
lol, so there's really no benefit to adding that to my plugins then?
 
what would benefit be?
 
4:18 PM
idk, I just thought maybe I was doing something wrong, because everyone else has that and I don't.
 
code that should never have been written doesnt check for security then throws a fatal?
or someone sees a half broken admin page template
 
4:48 PM
@MichaelEcklund most of us (at least me) did that for some time. to give you an explanation: it's the same idea as with adding an empty index.php file to each folder. it should be a "protection" to avoid calling files outside the WP context (core files loaded).
 
Hi there. Is this an appropriate place to ask for help with a problem?
 
the main site is
@Sisir yes. thanks, closed
 
@kaiser I am flagging now. BTW: Good topic on meta :)
but isn't it ironic that we still have the plugin-recommendation tag?
 
Yeah, I guess. It's just it is fairly urgent and seeing as I (accidentally) asked the question twice and only got one response which didn't solve the problem, I had hoped that there might be someone on here who could help me?

http://wordpress.stackexchange.com/questions/155202/current-user-can-not-always-working-properly
 
4:54 PM
@BenWainwright link to second question please. also you can delete it yourself
 
Hmm ok. I did look for a way of deleting it. Second question: wordpress.stackexchange.com/questions/152750/…
 
lower left of the question: there should be a delete link.
 
Quite right
Found it :
:)
 
btw, aren't you a bit late with a soccer site? ;)
 
Rugby :P
Is not the same as soccar
 
4:56 PM
hehe
 
Rugby originates what you know as football
It's like 'football' but without the armour...
armor
 
lol
 
:P
But yeah; is there anyone in here who can help me work out what is going wrong here? Because I need to take the site live next Thursday and this is going to be a major issue if this bug persists :/
 
answered
can't help you more than that, afk
 
Soccer is the real football that played with "Foot". It freaks me out when people points "American football/rugby" as football
 
5:14 PM
Thanks Kaiser. Didn't solve the problem though cry
 
@BenWainwright any caching active on your server?
 
Not as far as I know
Right I have to go now.Thanks anyway :(
 
@kaiser, you're European. It's football. Not soccer.
 
5:32 PM
please guys, you had your fun, it is over. can we stop talking about this running after a leather ball, no matter how it is called...
please!
 
actually soccer is a British word
we called them both until late 1980s, at which point the word soccer dissapeared from usage
 
@BenWainwright If you hook in on pre_get_posts then you can check if a restricted page is being requested and redirect if necessary. Or (as @kaiser suggests ) don't redirect at all but show a log-in form. Either-way, redirecting in the template is leaving it later than required.
 
except in the US
 
sigh
 
@BenWainwright Isn't that the expected functionality? Whether the user is logged in or not, if the user doesn't have the correct capability, you're sending them back to the login page.
 
5:56 PM
@BenWainwright imagine if you tested out cars by buying them, driving them for 2 years, then running into a roadblock where it doesnt do something you need, then driving it to a scrap heap and selling it for scrap, then buying what you actually needed
or if you said to your secretary you needed a 500 page report on soil erosion, and when it was handed to you, you then said "Nope throw that away I actually want a cup of coffee", and you did that everytime you felt like coffee
that's what doing it in the template is like
 
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