Japanese Language

Flaw

3:04 AM

@Chocolate I think that is true. I should edit my answer.

jlptn1

4:20 AM

@snailboat as for ろ->ん　how about 色々な->いろんな? Granted there's an い also being shortened there.

Chocolate

7:36 AM

@Flaw Well... actually I think I should have commented on used12~~'s post,

He wrote「そ～ means close to the listener.
そんなにおいしかったの？」so

Flaw

Did my previous explanation make sense?

About そんな being used to confirm if they had similar extent of おいしい

But it is something like "close to the listener", since the person raised it in the topic, it feels like it is nearer to the person that first said it.

Chocolate

う～ん・・・なんか、「認知言語学」の世界かも・・

難しい！Then we're talking about the overall usage of それ, その etc

not just the そんなに used here specifically in this example

Flaw

Yes that was what I was trying to think about.

I wanted to combine the two ideas of こそあど together in a unified theory.

Chocolate

So, what is just said by the speaker is closer to the speaker, than to the listener. yes, I think that's how そ～ is used, basically

(Sorry, I should have commented on used12's answer but)

(he doesn't seem to be really うれしい being commented on...)

Well I think I was only looking at the surface, how do you say.. the superficial part of the text, so I thought of it as quite simple.

and to be honest I kind of thought I didn't need to try to improve his post

Am I 意地悪？

(I hope he won't read this)

Flaw

8:03 AM

No I think it's fine to critique each other.

Chocolate

Oh OK... But well I would much more prefer to improve YOUR posts. This is what we call えこひいき, you know

(favoritism?)

!

？

*

I'm favored (恥ずかしい)

8:11 AM

あははは

Flaw

If (泣) is used to express crying, (笑) for laugh, then is (恥) used for blushing?

Chocolate

そおかな～あまり見たことがないけど、ありそう～～

Flaw

8:24 AM

試験を終わったから、りラックスしすぎている

Chocolate

あら、おめでと～

Flaw

ありがとう

勉強のものを片付けるほうがいいね

(Can I use ほうがいい for my own actions?)

(Or is べき a better choice?)

Chocolate

したほうがいいっていうほうがいいww

私は、掃除した方がいいです・・・

てか、掃除しないといけないかも！

おおお

Flaw

Why did you use 「っていうほうがいい」 instead of 「っていったほうがいい」 ?

「したほうがいい」は「するほうがいい」より強いですか

"I had better do" is stronger than "It's better to do". The past tense makes it stronger I think.

Anonymous

9:51 AM

@jlptn1 Oh, thanks! I should add that to my list :-)

Anonymous

I hope people feel free to correct me. I know I can be a bit insecure, but I like finding out I'm wrong because then I learn stuff!

Anonymous

10:15 AM

Someone just sent me a message on Twitter asking "どのように行うあなたのですか？"

Anonymous

I don't know what they mean T_T;

Flaw

10:43 AM

I need some help translating something

"なーなんか絵描いてーってノリで言ったら数分後これ出てきてびっくり。勉強の合間にいいもん見たー"

I think the speaker had asked someone to do a drawing, and soon after the drawing appeared and it was a surprising outcome.

I cannot understand what ノリで is doing in the first sentence.

I cannot understand いいもん見たー too

Oh wait, the second sentence just means "I saw something good while studying"

Anonymous

11:15 AM

@Flaw Like 「いいものを見た」, right?

Flaw

Yea

But what is ノリで ?

I figured that で would be the kansaiben emphatic particle. Since I couldn't fit the regular で in.

Anonymous

I'm not really sure about ノリ. I think it's 乗り, like 乗りのいい・乗りの悪い??

jlptn1

i think it means 'for fun' here

Anonymous

from like 気が乗る・気乗り

Anonymous

I found a web page maggiesensei.com/2011/10/01/…

Flaw

11:29 AM

so ノリで would mean... "have fun doing it" ?

Flaw

11:45 AM

Or it means "do what comes to you"

Flaw

12:32 PM

@Taylor Hi!

Anonymous

@Flaw Maybe you could ask about ノリ on the site

taylor

As-salaamu alaykum, Flaw :)

Flaw

I guess I will. After taking a shower.

@Taylor can I trouble you?

To explain what a tensor is in a few sentences?

taylor

oh man tensors, those are hard lolz

if i recall, they're multilinear maps

like a vector is 1-d, a matrix is 2-d, tensors are general n-d

Anonymous

and a scalar is 0-d

taylor

12:43 PM

i think the equation under en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor#Tensor_fields describes it pretty well

a higher dimensional matrix that changes in a certain and predictable way when you change the coordinates

i never studied them in school

i don't know if undergrad phys at my school were doing tensors or anything outside euclidean space

I read some of the Dover book, Tensors, Differential Forms, and Variational Principles

although i would definitely not recommend that book lolz

managing all those indices is a nightmare

Flaw

1:07 PM

I think I got "ノリで言ったら" , it means that the speaker said it on a whim.

Anonymous

That fits with what I think, but I'm not sure enough to say so

Chocolate

3:51 PM

@snailboat Google Translate?

Anonymous

Ahh... maybe so

Anonymous

I don't know why they sent me messages, hehe

Chocolate

@Flaw なんでだろ！？

Anonymous

I think 掃除 is a 漢語

Anonymous

the じ reading is weird for 除. 日本国語大辞典 says （「ぢ」は「除」の慣用音）

Chocolate

3:54 PM

@Flaw そおなの？？日本語だと、過去形の方が優しく聞こえる気がします。

@snailboat わ、とゆ～ことは、「掃除」も「清掃」も、漢語ってことよね

日本には、かつて、そうじがなかった・・・

きっと掃除しなかったんだな～・・・www

Anonymous

Hehe!

Chocolate

ｗｗｗ

「～したほうがいいよ」は、誰かに何かするように勧める(advise?suggest?)感じです。
例
〇「もう９時だから、そろそろ帰った方がいいよ。（=「帰りなさい」「帰らなきゃいけない」より優しい感じ）」
△?×?「もう９時だから、そろそろ帰る方がいいよ。」

あら、こんなのもある。う～ん、意見が分かれてるねえ・・・
http://oshiete1.watch.impress.co.jp/qa3722319.html

Anonymous

A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar says the meaning is almost the same, but the した one "may express a stronger suggestion"

Chocolate

わたし的には・・・「～するほうがいい」って、「～～するより～～する方がいい」っていうとき(なにかと比べるとき)によく使うかも。

@snailboat 「した」の方が、強いのお～

Anonymous

It says
◯「お前、このごろ麻薬をやってるそうだな。そんなもの　**止めた**　ほうがいいぜ。」
×「お前、このごろ麻薬をやってるそうだな。そんなもの　**止める**　ほうがいいぜ。」

taylor

4:08 PM

is it stronger because it した is past tense?

Anonymous

(Actually, it says ?? rather than ×)

Chocolate

@snailboat そおですねえ、上の方が自然ですね～

Anonymous

And it says that negative can't be past:
◯「コーヒーを　**飲まない**　ほうがいい」
×「コーヒーを　**飲まなかった**　ほうがいい」

Chocolate

ほんとだ～たしかに

気付かんかった。なんで肯定文だけ過去形がOKなのかねえ・・

@taylor 過去形って、優しいと思ってましたわ・・・

ちょっと、遠回しにいう感じがするから。

Chocolate

4:25 PM

@snailboat Google Translateだと、「How do you do?」が「どのようにあなたのですか？」になりました。かなり近い！

Anonymous

Oh, wow. I would never have guessed

Anonymous

Ooh, try changing "How" to "how"

Anonymous

That's so funny.
「How do you do?」　→ 「どのようにあなたのですか？」
「how do you do?」　→ 「どのように行うあなたのですか？」

Chocolate

え！そおなんだｗｗｗｗ

Anonymous

And if you erase the question mark, it changes it to はじめまして

Chocolate

4:31 PM

びみょーｗｗｗ

ほんまにグーグル先生は・・・融通がきかん！！ｗｗｗ

@snailboat Did you try "How do you do."?

Anonymous

It says "どのようにあなたん。"! What the heck :-)

Chocolate

ｗｗｗｗｗｗ

Anonymous

どのようにあなたん！

Anonymous

Oh, if you change it to a little h

Anonymous

it says 「どのように行う必要はない。」

Chocolate

4:37 PM

なぜだ～

Anonymous

I'm laughing way too hard at this :-)

Chocolate

www

Anonymous

I wonder how they came up with あなたん

Anonymous

「あなたんとこ」・・・　「あなたん家」

Chocolate

「あなたん♡」じゃないかな・・・ｗｗｗ

この「ん」はなんだｗｗ

Anonymous

4:47 PM

That reminds me to work on my list of contractions

Anonymous

I read that the ん in the phrase 〜んとする is from 古代助動詞「む」

Chocolate

「うっふん♡」　とか　「いや～ん♡」の「ん」は、終助詞ですかねえ・・・（絶対辞書に載ってなさそう！ｗ）

Anonymous

Hehe! I never thought about that sort of thing being an actual word

Anonymous

I'm reading entries for ん in 大辞林. I haven't seen this one before dic.yahoo.co.jp/…

Anonymous

気んなって　→　気になって

Anonymous

4:56 PM

Ahh, you're right, it wasn't in the dictionary xD

Anonymous

I read all the ん entries

Anonymous

I wonder how common ん　→　に is

Chocolate

9:02 PM

@AndrewGrimm どうでしょう・・私が見たときは、何も会議をしていなかったので、（てか、夜だったので）誰もいませんでした。

宝ヶ池の公園には、昼にも何度か行きましたけどね。広い公園なんです。池があって、木がたくさんあって、白鳥とか鴨とかがいました。

@snailboat 「いやになった」は、よく、話すときに「いやんなった」とかになりますね

「いやになってしまった」を「いやんなっちゃった」とか。

jkerian

Hmm... partly because I'm not entirely sure, but partly just because we don't seem to have it on the site yet, I should ask why the 'de' is in 私のホバークラフトは鰻でいっぱいです

Chocolate

9:17 PM

ううううなぎ？？

ホバークラフトに、ウナギがすんでいる？？

jkerian

@Chocolate It's a joke from a famous British comedy skit

omniglot.com/language/phrases/hovercraft.htm

Chocolate

おおお！！

びっくりしたｗｗｗｗ

Anonymous

9:42 PM

Ooh, another fish kanji to learn. 鰻! I didn't know it.

Anonymous

There's so many fish kanji!

Anonymous

@Chocolate Thank you! I wrote that example down :-)

Anonymous

「魚偏」に「曼」

Anonymous

（「曼荼羅」の「曼」）

jkerian

@snailboat How many fish kanji do you think you know at this point?

Anonymous

9:58 PM

Um, not very many. Let me think

Anonymous

魚　漁　鰻　鯉　鱈　鮹 (= 蛸）鯨　鮭　鮎　鮫　鯱　鱗

Anonymous

Twelve? :-)

jkerian

heh... more than me

Chocolate

鮹←知らん

Anonymous

Oh! 鯰

Anonymous

10:02 PM

Oh, I learned that one because of a discussion about 蛸

Chocolate

鯱、鱗、・・・しらんな～

Anonymous

鱗（うろこ）

Anonymous

鯱（しゃちほこ） or 鯱（しゃち）

Chocolate

鯰もしらんな～

Anonymous

I like 鯱. I can remember it because it's a 虎 + 魚

Chocolate

10:03 PM

@snailboat そうそう、そうだった～

でもきっと、蛸を見ないと、思い出さないな～

Anonymous

I remember 鯰 and 鮎 because of a discussion about Japanese and Chinese

Anonymous

I think in Japanese, 鮎 is あゆ, but in Chinese, 鮎 is なまず

Chocolate

@snailboat そうだ、うろこ！！いわれたら思い出す

@snailboat えええなまず

漢字を輸入したときに、きっと日本人が間違えたんだね・・・

Anonymous

And in Japanese 鯰 is なまず, but 鯰 is a 国字

Chocolate

なまずむつかし～

さんまは、秋刀魚だけ？へんなの

むっちゃ当て字やん。

Anonymous

10:06 PM

Oh... I don't know 秋刀魚

Anonymous

I don't know that word, either!

Chocolate

さんまって、これ。encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/…

Anonymous

なるほど〜

Anonymous

Do you see it in kanji often?

Anonymous

(maybe... at restaurants? Hehe)

Anonymous

10:08 PM

秋刀魚 is listed as a 熟字訓読み on 大辞林

Anonymous

dic.yahoo.co.jp/…

Anonymous

It says 体が刀状で、秋の代表的な魚であるところから「秋刀魚」と書く。[季]秋。

Chocolate

スーパーでは、だいたい、カタカナかな～「サンマ」とか。

Anonymous

当て字 are so hard to remember, sometimes

Chocolate

スーパーの、魚売り場で、魚の名前を全部漢字で書いてあったら・・・みんな、困る！！！

Anonymous

10:12 PM

Hehe!!

Chocolate

www

Anonymous

I'm trying to remember why I learned 鯱

Anonymous

→ ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Chocolate

シャチってkiller whale?怖いねえ・・・

あれ？想像上の動物？？これとは違うんだhttps://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A3%E3%83%81

Anonymous

Ohh, I learned about しゃちほこ when I learned that kanji

Anonymous

10:17 PM

I guess it's like 麒麟

Anonymous

It can be the Qílín or giraffe

Chocolate

あ、なるほど～そういえば・・・キリンと麒麟

Anonymous

シャチと鯱

Chocolate

へ～～

Anonymous

Oh!! I forgot 鮪

Chocolate

10:19 PM

ええと・・・

なんやったかいな？

さば？

さわら？

Anonymous

In the first episode of 日本人の知らない日本語, the teacher writes 鮪 for everyone

Anonymous

まぐろ＾＾

Chocolate

おおお

そうだ！そのビデオ見たのに～覚えてない！

Anonymous

Oh, another kanji with 魚 that I learned but I forgot: 鰭

Chocolate

ええと・・・ちょっとまった！

鮨（すし）じゃないし・・・

かつおは・・・鰹かぁ

Anonymous

10:23 PM

Ooh, I don't know that one. I didn't know there was one character for すし！

Anonymous

I learned it as 寿司

Chocolate

私も読めない・書けないけどね～

Anonymous

鰹 is a pretty complicated-looking kanji

Anonymous

堅い魚・・・

Chocolate

さば、さわら、ぶり、ふぐ・・・あかん、ちがうわ～

いるか？

ちがう！

いか？

ちがうな～

Anonymous

10:26 PM

I don't think there is a kanji for いか... I tried looking it up one time

Chocolate

ないね～

烏賊？

Anonymous

Oh I meant I don't think there's a single kanji

Chocolate

鰭＜＜食べられる？

Anonymous

I don't think you would eat a 鰭

Chocolate

ます、もちがう

食べないの？ええと・・

Anonymous

10:29 PM

I wonder why 烏賊 is いか. Crow robber??

Chocolate

wwwへんだね！

Anonymous

When I learned 烏, someone told me a funny way to remember it. They said a 烏 is a brainless 鳥

Chocolate

きっと、イカを干していたら、カラスが盗る・・・

ああ、からっぽｗｗ

鰭、わかんない！ぎぶあっぷ～

Anonymous

I tried typing converting most of those fish names you typed into kanji, and I didn't recognize any of them

Anonymous

Oh! It's ひれ

Chocolate

10:31 PM

おお、ひれ！

Anonymous

I like that kanji for some reason :-)

Chocolate

さかなが・・・ろうじん・・・日。

Anonymous

耆　老日

Anonymous

But I don't know 耆 so...

Chocolate

耆←読めない。

@snailboat かつおぶしにするから、かたいのかも。

Anonymous

10:37 PM

I wonder if 耆 is used in Chinese

Anonymous

I wonder about some of the other fish kanji.

Anonymous

鰤

Anonymous

（魚の師匠！）

Anonymous

I don't know that one, but I got it when I typed in one of the fish you typed in kana :-)

Chocolate

魚の先生みたいなの？ええと・・

Anonymous

10:40 PM

There's so many fish kanji!

Anonymous

I read once that in large Chinese dictionaries, the 部首 with the most characters is 鳥

Anonymous

I don't know very many 鳥 kanji.

Anonymous

鰤　＝　ぶり！

Chocolate

え、ぶり？？

鰤

あらら

はじめてみた！

たぶん、忘れる！ｗｗ

とりへんは・・・鴨？じゃないなあ

鳥が右にある。

鳴く、これも。

鳩。はと。

Anonymous

鳥　鳴く　鴨

Anonymous

10:45 PM

鳩！

Chocolate

にわとり！鶏

全部、右だね～

Anonymous

A 鳩 is a bird that goes キュー　キュー！　（九！九！）

Chocolate

ほんまや！だから、鳩？

Anonymous

I read in my kanji book that several kanji are based on the sound animals make.

Anonymous

For example, it said that in 蚊, the 文 represents the sound

Chocolate

10:47 PM

「蚊」は、「ぶ～ん」って飛ぶから、「虫＋文（ぶん）」ってきいたことがある。

あ、それ！

Anonymous

Hehe!

Chocolate

寝なきゃ！

今日もむっちゃわろた～

おやすみ～～

Anonymous

おやすみ＾＾

ssb

11:34 PM

If you ever want a crash course on fish, bug, and plant kanji just do remembering the kanji volume 3

Anonymous

11:50 PM

At this point, I don't think there's any real reason to learn more kanji except when I come across them in context

Anonymous

Although those are fun

Anonymous

My new non-fish kanji of the day: 永劫

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