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Anonymous
2:29 AM
There was a chapter in a book that talked about 〜と言う and 〜と言っている (I believe in the context of modality), but I don't remember very well and I'm having trouble finding what it was by searching online
 
Anonymous
It's a shame, because I want to re-read it. If only I took better notes! (That's my motto :-)
 
Darius Jahandarie
Darius Jahandarie
Was it in that big book on modality in Japanese that you found?
 
Anonymous
No, I've read that fairly carefully, so I'm fairly certain it wasn't
 
Anonymous
By the way, there's a copy of the Sugita 2009 paper on the author's website. The version there has a table of contents in the PDF: mamori.com/Sugita2009.pdf
 
Darius Jahandarie
Darius Jahandarie
Oh, cool.
I need to reread that paper.
 
Anonymous
2:35 AM
The 〜と言っている thing was in a book I don't have myself
 
Anonymous
My recollection is too vague to sum it up, but it was something to do with the distance from the speaker, I think
 
Darius Jahandarie
Darius Jahandarie
Oh, this sounds familiar.
Like a "if you heard the person say it yourself, then you can use 言った, but if you weren't there then you must use 言っていた" sort of thing?
Reminds me of 〜き vs 〜けり.
I'm thinking about this question:
1
Q: Using と to link clauses instead of て

user3856370I've seen several posts saying that と cannot be used to mean 'and' when linking clauses. They say it should be treated as 'when'. I have come across several sentences in my studies that do not support this conclusion e.g. 鬼は、一寸｛いっすん}ぼうしを吐き出すと、大急ぎで逃げていきました The ogre spit out 一寸ぼうし 'and' hu...

grammar te-form particle-to conditionals
I can't quite answer it, though I'm wondering something a little unrelated to the question itself.
Normally the tense on the outer verb affects the inner verb. But must it?

For example, you can have this interpretation:
> [[issun bousi wo hakidasu to] ooisogide nigeteik]-**ta**
> **Habitual past:** "when(ever) the ogre spat out 一寸ぼうし he ran in a hurry"

But can you have this one?
> [issun bousi wo hakidasu to] ooisogide nigeteik-**ta**
> **Habitual past:** "If (it's the case that) the ogre (generally) spits out 一寸ぼうし, he ran away in a hurry."
I think you can but it's so unpragmatic with this sentence that I've confused myself.
 
 
2 hours later…
Anonymous
4:59 AM
I think it might have been Usage-based Approaches to Japanese Grammar: Towards the understanding of human language, pages 37-50
 
Anonymous
But that's more about と思う versus と思っている and such
 
Anonymous
So maybe I was just misremembering what I read
 
Anonymous
The author of the chapter is comparing 〜がる with 〜ている, and only briefly mentions 言っている
 
Anonymous
5:29 AM
So although on re-reading it does seem like a pretty interesting chapter, I'm afraid it doesn't answer the question asked on Japanese.SE about と言っている
 
Choco
Choco
7:24 AM
1
Q: What does the word 「っぷち」mean?

GeorgeHere is the sentence including the word. 計画{けいかく}の一! それは この広{ひろ}い川{かわ}っぷちの両{りょう}岸{がん}一[帯]{たい}の おとなも子{こ}どももあそべるでっかい遊{ゆう}園{えん}地{ち}を作{つく}ること!

words
縁(ふち)って、どうして
「っぷち」になるんですか？
額縁(がくぶち)の「ぶち」は、
連濁でしたよね
がけのふち＞がけっぷち？
「のみっぷり」とか
「しゃべりっぱなし」とか
「っ」＋「ぱぴぷぺぽ」になるのって、連濁？
 
Anonymous
7:50 AM
@Choco 連濁 basically turns a voiceless consonant into a voiced (濁音) consonant, so /k s t/ かさた become /g z d/ がざた. But /p/ is not a voiced sound...
 
Anonymous
はひふへほ was /pa pi pu pe po/ in Old Japanese
 
Anonymous
And 連濁 turned /pa pi pu pe po/ (voiceless) into /ba bi bu be bo/ (voiced)
 
Anonymous
But now it's /h/, so 連濁 turns /h/ into /b/ (even though /h/ is not the voiceless version of /b/)
 
Choco
Choco
@snailboat お～
@snailboat まあ！
@snailboat ですよね～
 
Anonymous
But even though /p/ turned into /h/,
 
Anonymous
7:53 AM
/pp/ didn't turn into /hh/,
 
Anonymous
So やはり /yapari/ became /yahari/ but やっぱり is /yappari/
 
Anonymous
That's why there's an alternation between /h/ and /pp/
 
Anonymous
It's separate from 連濁
 
Choco
Choco
やはり--> やっぱり
これ以外、思いつかない
@snailboat 連濁じゃないのね～
 
Anonymous
にほん・にっぽん
 
Choco
Choco
7:59 AM
あ！
 
Anonymous
いち＋ほん　→　いっぽん (because it can't be /h/ with a っ before it)
 
Anonymous
But I think most word-internal /p/ became /w/, like 川 kapa > kawa
 
Anonymous
Or the particle は pa > wa
 
Choco
Choco
川って「かぱ」やったん？
 
Anonymous
> 山川を中に隔りて遠くとも心を近く思ほせ
> yama-kapa wo naka ni penarite topo-ku tomo kokoro wo tika-ku omopose
 
Choco
Choco
8:03 AM
へえ～
昔の人が話したら、きっと、私にはわからないね～
 
Anonymous
 
Choco
Choco
高校の古典の授業を思い出します・・・百人一首とか暗記させられた
何にも覚えてない
むつかしいわ・・・
現代文に訳すと、倍くらいの長さになるんやねえ
@snailboat これ、ほんとは全部ひらがななんでしょ。余計難しい
 
Choco
Choco
8:49 AM
「女主人」「うぃき」で検索したら「ミストレス」があった
ミストレス
ミストレスは、「女主人」のことを指す英語。本来マスター (Master) の、女性用として存在する英語。転じて女主人、女性支配者、女教師、愛人、「女王」を指す言葉として用いられる。 == BDSM用語としてのミストレス == BDSMでは文字通り服従的なパートナーに対する支配的な女性を指す。男性が支配、女性が服従という一般的な価値観から見れば逆転とも言える「強い女性」の登場により、単なる尊称としてよりも、支配的な性格、行動も含めてミストレス（女王様）と定義され用いられる場合がある。 英語ではドミナトリクス[1]（女性支配者の意味）ともいうことから、BDSM用語では「ドミナ」という呼び名もある。 == キャットファイト用語としてのミストレス == BDSM用語から派生してドミネーション系キャットファイトにおいても、専ら攻撃側にまわり、攻撃を受容する側に回らないキャットファイターのことを指す場合がある。 == 参考資料 == 三省堂 EXCEED英和辞典（mistress - be mistress of / be one's own mistress） == 関連項目 == フェムドム ドミナ（ドミナトリックスDominatrix） ドミノマスク ペニスバンド 調教 SM (性風俗) BDSM 貞操帯 射精管理 騎乗位 顔面騎乗 逆レイプ 女尊男卑 == 外...
なぜこの写真・・・
あぶないな
 
Anonymous
Haha! :-)
 
Choco
Choco
メインが「BDSM」なのかねえ・・・
うわっ、下の「関連項目」、あぶないのばっかり
 
Anonymous
@Choco The Oxford Corpus of Old Japanese show the old pronunciations by putting them all in ローマ字 rcjll.orient.ox.ac.uk/texts/MYS.15.3764.html
 
Anonymous
I'm still not very good at Modern Japanese, so I'm not spending much time trying to understand Old Japanese yet :-)
 
Choco
Choco
@snailboat へえ！
古語得意なのねえ・・すごい・・・
 
Anonymous
9:03 AM
Noo, I was saying it's still too difficult for me... :-)
 
Anonymous
I've only read a little bit
 
Choco
Choco
あ
読み間違えた　：ｐ
 
Anonymous
Hehe
 
Choco
Choco
@snailboat ローマ字でも難しいけど、
漢字はな～んにもわからん！！
 
Anonymous
@Choco Hehe same here :-)
 
Anonymous
9:04 AM
In A History of the Japanese Language it comes with translations
 
Anonymous
It says:
 
Anonymous
> 'even if we are far apart, with mountains and rivers between us, think our hearts close to one another, my love'
 
Anonymous
It seems like the entire thing is written in 万葉仮名 except for 山川
 
Anonymous
So I guess it's not 100% 万葉仮名, but like... 95%
 
Choco
Choco
pyenarite 　が・・・
ぴぇなりて
 
Anonymous
9:09 AM
Oh, the "ye" thing is because there were multiple e sounds in Old Japanese
 
Anonymous
But then eventually "ye" disappeared and turned into "e"
 
Choco
Choco
山川を中に隔りて遠くとも心を近く思ほせ
even if we are far apart, with mountains and rivers between us, think our hearts close to one another, my love
いわれてみればなんとなくそうかな・・・って思う
ぴぇー＞へ
ほお・・・・
 
Anonymous
I had to look up へなる
 
Anonymous
@Choco Ohh, I just now saw the question about "mistress", so now I understand why you linked to that page :-)
 
Choco
Choco
@snailboat そ～そ～
1
Q: What does the word 「ようく」mean?

GeorgeI came across the word in a manga in a situation that a teenage boy is going to explain something to a group of kids. I cannot find the word in online japanese dictionary. Here is the sentence. 耳{みみ}をかっぽじってようく きくがいい!

words manga
これ見て、
「かっぽじる」は
「か」＋「っぽ」
「ほじる」が「っぽじる」になるんだなって
思いました
（でも、なんやねん、この「か」？）
 
Anonymous
9:25 AM
掻き＋穿る kaki-hoziru > kaQ- かっ hoziru ほじる > kaQ-poziru かっぽじる
 
Choco
Choco
おおお！
 
Anonymous
/Q/ = っ
 
Choco
Choco
かく！
たしかに
makes sense
 
ssb
ssb
ヽ(´ー｀)ノ
 
Choco
Choco
(´º﹃º｀)
(↑「おなかすいた」らしい)
 
Anonymous
9:39 AM
＿＠＿レ　←　カタツムリ
 
Choco
Choco
ξ　←　「うん×」だそうです
 
Anonymous
There's an う☆こ statue in San Jose
 
Choco
Choco
う×こを顔に投げて、
-=≡~ξ-＿-*)ベチャ アン♪
こうなるそうです
@snailboat えっ
「×んこの像」！？
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
 
Choco
Choco
9:43 AM
あはは
へび？
 
Anonymous
Yes, Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent :-)
 
Choco
Choco
Quetzalcoatl
難しいつづりねえ
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
@Choco I get it wrong every time!
 
ssb
ssb
10:19 AM
かたつむり　＠ノ”
 
Anonymous
Oh, that's cute! :-)
 
小太郎
小太郎
10:48 AM
I'm presenting about possible ways to improve English education in Japan, but I have a certain sentence I'm unsure about, especially on the use of the causative form (It doesn't feel right using it here...)
What do you think?
The sentence: そうすると、英語はただ勉強の様な感じも減らさせて、本当にコミュニケーションツールを分からせると思います。
I'm trying to go for the meaning, "If this is done, I think the feeling that English is just a subject to study will be reduced, and is actually a communication tool"
 
Anonymous
11:17 AM
@小太郎 Have you gotten feedback from native speakers yet?
 
小太郎
小太郎
nope
This is more of a presentation for the sake of presenting rather than something formal :p
 
Anonymous
I was wondering if you could maybe say ただ勉強するものではなく、・・・
 
Anonymous
The first half seems a little bit hard to understand for me the way it's written
 
Anonymous
I think if you posted it on Lang-8 you'd get helpful feedback :-)
 
Anonymous
「・・・本当にコミュニケーションツールであることを伝えると思います」？
 
Anonymous
11:29 AM
You'd be better off getting feedback from native speakers, though :-)
 
unarist
unarist
12:36 PM
just a subject to study ・・・うーん・・・
@snailboat 「こうすることで、英語とはただ勉強するものではなく、コミュニケーションの道具なのだ、ということが伝えられると思います」とかどうでしょう
伝わるはずです/わかってもらえるはずです/理解するでしょう/etc.
 
Anonymous
Ohh, nice :-)
 
unarist
unarist
こないだも思いましたが、入れ子になった文の助詞はやっぱり難しいですね・・・
 
 
1 hour later…
Choco
Choco
1:53 PM
"is actually a communication tool" の主語は何ですか
Englishですよね
I think 〔the feeling （that English is just a subject to study） will be reduced〕,
ときて・・・
and is actually a communication tool.　ってことは、
主語は？
 
Choco
Choco
2:34 PM
特に最後がわかりません
 
ssb
ssb
step..
what Japanese words could mean step
 
Choco
Choco
階段？
 
ssb
ssb
but that wouldn't make sense with laundry
 
Choco
Choco
だぬ～
 
 
9 hours later…
Anonymous
11:28 PM
I can't think of anything...
 
Anonymous
I could guess 踏みにじる as 踏み 'step' ＋ にする, confusing じる＝ずる＝する, but that seems extremely unlikely... :-)
 

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