@DoubleAA I'm not sure what you're asking, but judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/27884/… we decided that the soap would not be pogem. I remember a Maharam Mi'Lublin that says something about the dairy not being mevatel because it is not assur, and you can only be mevatel issur. It's been a while, so I may not be remembering that correctly.

@MonicaCellio ^^^?

That is... not the same font, I don't think. So maybe Chrome doesn't know how to find fonts that Firefox knows how to find? Weird.

Convert to comment, I mean.

My flag was marked helpful. But it still stands.

@SethJ seems reasonable. If the poster comes back to flesh it out then fine, but since that hasn't happened yet...

@MonicaCellio @MonicaCellio, incidentally, how do you guys determine if something is not an answer, when it can be viewed, if you squint really hard, as an exceedingly poor answer?

@SethJ I don't recall seeing it, but I was on vacation and mostly offline in late July.

@MonicaCellio (I've been struggling to understand this distinction for a while.)

@SethJ it's not cut and dried, unfortunately. Often we look for consensus in chat. (I think that happened today, for instance -- except actual consensus hasn't happened yet...) The guidance I've seen from SE is that if it's an answer at all we shouldn't handle as NAA, and VLQ is for "really awful, not a hope of being redeemed", so I tend to err on the side of leaving it and letting voting handle it until there's more clarity.

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hmmm

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Nu?

@rosenjcb nu wat

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Used nu wrong. Was just wondering what you were hmm'ing at.

i dont know myself

@rosenjcb Looked like standard usage to me

@IsaacMoses Isn't "nu" more like "Well," than a "What?"

@rosenjcb "Continue already" <tapping foot, looking at watch>

@IsaacMoses Ah, I see. I don't claim to understand Ashkenazi terminology very well.

I hate it when I can't figure out the Hebrew equivalent of a Yiddish word.

I just feel my ancestors looking at me with shame for letting the galut corrupt me.

@rosenjcb There is no Hebrew equivalent. You're not letting galut corrupt you - you're letting Israel corrupt you from galus :-)

@CharlesKoppelman I don't mean "nu," but other words like frum.

I'll struggle thinking of "frum" and someone will say "dati," and all I can do is feel shame.

@rosenjcb Say "feh" to the shame!

hmmm

@rosenjcb What about Keilim?

Sorry, didn't read the rest of the conversation

Whelp we just postponed our trip until the winter. The silver lining is that cancelling it all was fairly easy.

Huzzah! Baruch Hashem li-silverlinings.

@ShmuelBrin why would bugs affect keilim?

@Menachem My point was the soap would clean it and you'd find no traces of casein or whatever. If you hold that the ben yomo dairy clean pot really imparts halachik 'flavor', then you see that the study you quoted about casein in vegan food is not necessarily relevant to if the food is kosher/dairy/etc.

@rosenjcb More of your ancestors spoke Aramaic than Hebrew.

@Daniel But if it's mushed (as vegetables are in many vegan dishes) then it can be. Or if you hold like the Rashba (?) that birya is batel in 960. Or that the bugs need to look like bugs. Let's not forget people have been eating lettuce after washing it without a lightbox for millennia.

Ironically if you tell people that the vegan thing doesn't work, then it probably does because it no longer is bittul issur lechatchilah on behalf of a Jew.

Thoughts?

Hi

@Ali hi

@HodofHod "And oh the shame!"

@DoubleAA the stores claimed to be vegan and weren't. In some cases it wasn't even their fault because they bought products labeled vegan that weren't. That was my point. It wasn't about whether they would be kosher.

We seem to be at an all-time low in voting

Especially since the beginning of 2013

But really going back a whole year to last summer

Data comes from data.stackexchange.com/miyodeya/query/127606/votes-per-post

Do we think this is a problem, or not a big deal?

btw that is the sum of upvotes and downvotes

not upvotes - downvotes

@Daniel Interesting. I wonder how it compares to other SE 2.0 sites as they've grown.

...just to pick one arbitrarily.

@Daniel Waitasecond. Your query checks for votes by the post's creation date not by when the vote was cast. That should go down, since older posts continue to accrue votes.

@Daniel Graphable version (collapses yymm)

@msh210 Good point. I changed my version ^^ to use the votes' creation dates instead of the posts'

... but the graphing is weird due to 100 > 12 . hold on...

@msh210 Oooh right I meant to change that to check for votes within a few weeks of the post

@IsaacMoses But you're dividing by the number of posts that were voted on in that month, which is a weird denominator.

@msh210 So much for quick fixes

@IsaacMoses Better than none. I'm just sitting here and criticizing. :-)

@IsaacMoses what does dateadd(m, datediff(m,0, Posts.CreationDate), 0) mean?

@Daniel Idiom found here for truncating a date down to the month level

There we go.

Now, I've got @Daniel's query, but restricted to votes within 7 days of posting, and with the graph looking nice

@IsaacMoses I'm using an ancient webbrowser and can't see the graphs

post a screenshot?

@IsaacMoses hmm there doesn't seem to be any image there

@Daniel Sorry. I thought it'd be that easy

@IsaacMoses What do you mean?

@Daniel I thought I could just save-image-as on the graph and then post that file.

Anyway, this data shows that the one-week-votes rate is down to about where we were just before migration

@IsaacMoses Is it the same shape as the one I originally posted?

@Daniel No. Now, it goes up from m.y launch in '09 to MY launch in '12, then goes down from then to now. This shape seems to be largely insensitive to reasonable variations in the horizon within votes are counted (e.g. 7 days, 1 day, 14 days)

@IsaacMoses Interesting

So what do you think?

and @msh210?

Do you think it's a problem?

@Daniel Not sure. Our present rate is close to those of other sites, I think (having run the query for a few)

@Daniel Worth comparing to other measures of activity, e.g. posts per month

@IsaacMoses It is: I checked Photography, Bicycles, and Physics. But of those only we and one another (Photography IIRC) have a downward trend. It'd be worth checking many sites and/or keeping an eye on ours to be sure it doesn't go much farther down and/or looking at other measures.

added scaled versions of the numerator and denominator for comparison.

@Daniel @IsaacMoses: Is there a way to compare the votes to page views. Are we having the same (or more) page views with less votes, or less activity on the site overall?

added a clause to leave out current incomplete month

@Menachem I don't think we have access to page views in SEDE

@IsaacMoses Pretty sure that's correct.

@IsaacMoses Yeah, it only has information about posts not about pages

Maybe we should start a campaign encouraging users to vote

on new and old questions

and answers

We all know that voting is important, but it's easy to forget

@Daniel I've not looked at the SEDE at all for this, but my own general impression is that people especially don't downvote.

@Menachem Here's an external measure of page views per month. Note that the more content we have (which increases monotonically), the more search hits we'll generate per month

@msh210 Yeah

I've been doing it more lately

But I'm always a little reluctant, especially to be the first downvote

which is arguably the most important one

@Daniel I think that, to a new user, the big "-1" can look very... negative.

@msh210 Yeah

That's part of the reason why I'm reluctant

I'm also nervous that I'm misunderstanding the post

and that it's actually good

Actually, it looks like Downvotes have gone up

And after it has a negative score, nobody will look at it

@IsaacMoses Interesting. So upvoting has just gone way down?

@Daniel Downvoting happens much less than upvoting, which is expected and good

@IsaacMoses Right

@Daniel ... so the trend in the sum of both is dominated by the trend in upvotes

@IsaacMoses Yeah. That makes sense

I do think we should make a push to get people to increase voting

I think it's too easy to forget

@IsaacMoses I didn't mean it's gone down over time, just that it's not done. I wonder how we compare in downvotes per post (total, not over time) to other SE sites.

it would be cool if it were possible to make cross-site DE queries

@DoubleAA I feel sad every time I realize that Aramaic will never be the lingua franca ever again.

@rosenjcb Why?

@Daniel I like the language better than English.

@rosenjcb You could try to do a Ben-Yehuda and revive it

@Daniel I would actually have to learn the language first. Too much work.

@rosenjcb Nah... Just do what Ben Yehuda did... Make words up

@Daniel Haha, excellent. New ROOT, Tet - Resh - Lamed. It means, "to troll on the internet."

Ani torel b'Mi Yodeya. It's already a success.

@rosenjcb אני לא טורל תמיד, אבל כשאני טורל, אני טורל במקלדת של הוד_שבהוד

ֶֶ@HodofHod, how do I make the keyboard go away?

I see what happened. My search ribbon was open at the bottom of my browser, so it pushed the content up so that the buttons were under the keyboard.

@IsaacMoses It's already used by the common populace. They should just make me the new head of the Hebrew committee. I'll make sure to ban words like "סטודנט" and punish anyone who uses Gemara terminology incorrectly.

@IsaacMoses :-)

wat

piyut.org.il/tradition/english/2110.html?currPerformance=2767

@rosenjcb I thought you were bringing back Aramaic. Ana, not ani

@Daniel Isn't that Arabic too?

@rosenjcb yes

@Daniel Then it would be "taral," not "toreil"

@IsaacMoses Oh, you're right.

@IsaacMoses indeed :)

@rosenjcb Arabic and Aramaic share many cognates

@Daniel I heard Arabic shares a lot of grammar with the other North West Semitic languages. I'd learn a bit of Arabic, if it wasn't written with scribbles. :(

@rosenjcb Once you've learned the alphabet, it doesn't seem to be scribbles anymore

@Daniel I had a friend describe to me, "When I first started learning Arabic, it looked like scribbles. However, after a while, they were still scribbles; but, I could read them."

@rosenjcb Fair enough. But do you have some moral issue with reading scribbles?

@Daniel No, of course not. The Sanhedrin needed to know 70 different languages.

The language just doesn't grab my attention enough for me to dedicate time to learning it.

@Daniel The scribbles turn me off.

Like they're an essential deal breaker on something that I wasn't really going to do.

@rosenjcb Fair enough :)

@rosenjcb To read them?

@msh210 Read what? :)

@rosenjcb My chat message has an arrow at its left side to indicate what chat message it's a reply to. Click the arrow, and what I was replying to will be highlighted in yellow and you'll scroll to it (or it'll open in a new window if it's too far back to scroll to). Just hover over my chat message and the message it's a reply to will be highlighted in grey if it's in the visiblewindow (as in this case, for me anyway). FYI.

@rosenjcb Anyway, I was replying to your "The Sanhedrin needed to know 70 different languages".

@msh210 Yeah, they need to know 70 different languages to read what? I don't understand the context or what you're asking specifically.

@rosenjcb Ah, I see. I meant: They need to know how to read 70 languages?

@msh210 Yeah.

@rosenjcb How do you know? I always assumed it was just to understand and speak them.

@msh210 I don't know the context of the quote, all I know is the quote. Don't hardball me here.

@rosenjcb what bout the 3ayeen lol

@rosenjcb dont make me crack the whip

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Cracker... does that count as cursing?

@rosenjcb not in the south where your from :)

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob I live with the rednecks.

@rosenjcb i know

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Hey do you live in Connecticut?

@rosenjcb no i told you i live in bp

@MoriDoweedhYa3gob Forgot.