Discussion on Mi Yodeya Userscripts

HodofHod

12:05 AM

@JonEricson That is not FrankRuehl. I wonder what's going on.

Monica Cellio

12:59 AM

@JonEricson oh wow; I forgot all about that. I don't mind self-answering. When @HodofHod is ready, of course.

Jon Ericson

@MonicaCellio Do you see the same issue I see? (I seem to recall you are a Mac user.)

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ah, Chrome. :-) I'm on a Mac but in Firefox and I'm not seeing that truncation at the bottoms.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio I'd really like to fix this issue before, but I'm really not sure how, without a Mac in front of me.

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson I'm not seeing the truncation on a Mac in Firefox. That said, @HodofHod I think the vowels for the bottom row were easier to read yesterday, but maybe I'm imagining things?

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio That's a weird rlm; button.

@MonicaCellio I don't think I changed anything there.

Monica Cellio

1:07 AM

@HodofHod oh, the placement you mean? Yeah, weird and I probably should have mentioned it yesterday, but it's not like it's impeding functionality so I didn't think about it.

@HodofHod ok, probably my imagination then. No big deal. @JonEricson, can you try in Firefox to see if the behavior matches Chrome for you or FF for me?

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio No, the shape. The placement is there to keep the alignment of the keyboard. It replaces the / and ' keys which are usually there in Hebrew layout

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod oh, huh. Yeah, I just looked at the screenshot in your announcement post, and it doesn't have that rounding that I'm seeing.

HodofHod

MACS ARE WEIRD

That is all.

:D

Charles Koppelman

@HodofHod Looks like FrankRuehl doesn't exist on Macs by default

you might be able to get a lot of the style rules using an injected css stylesheet instead of inline styles if that's something that would make this easier

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod in some ways. I was a Windows user at home for years, but Vista made me change teams. And I do like having a Unix-like environment right there, without having to download Cygwin (which always ends up being more complicated than it should be).

Charles Koppelman

1:13 AM

but i'd be careful with a class name like "key" cuz who knows if/when SO will add that class to their pages

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman :D I was thinking that myself when I wrote it. I forgot to go back and change it, though. Thanks for the reminder. I'll probably change 'keyboard' too, just in case.

HodofHod

1:31 AM

@MonicaCellio @JonEricson I've committed a new version with backup fonts, and different paddings and sizes. If you get a chance, give it a go.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod works for me! Screen shot coming up in a moment.

(If there's a difference it's subtle, but maybe I already had the right font and only @Jon will see a change?)

Charles Koppelman

weird, some time between 0.1.2 and 0.1.4 it got strange for me

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio It should be subtle to non-existent for ones that were already working. I tried to boost the size of the font.

@CharlesKoppelman Uh oh.

Charles Koppelman

the second row now has curved buttons while all the others are square

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman OS and Browser?

Charles Koppelman

1:40 AM

and the font is much larger and Arial

OSX FF

Monica Cellio

@CharlesKoppelman hmm. OK, let's be more specific. For me OS 10.6, FF 22.0. You?

Charles Koppelman

osx 10.8.4, ff 22 (but that's now updating)

Monica Cellio

@CharlesKoppelman I don't know a lot about font distributions. Is it possible that 10.6 and 10.8 have different default fonts? (How would I even find out what Hebrew fonts my Mac knows about?)

Charles Koppelman

@MonicaCellio open font book - technically, it's not a Hebrew font, it's just a font that includes Hebrew unicode points

Monica Cellio

@CharlesKoppelman ok. There are a lot of fonts; are we looking for specific ones, or do I need to step through them looking for Hebrew, or what?

HodofHod

1:51 AM

Look for New Peninim.

I think @Charles will find it missing?

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod I have "New Peninim MT".

Charles Koppelman

@HodofHod indeed - no Penim

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman For my next trick....

Charles Koppelman

@MonicaCellio Ooh I have that one

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman Wait, what?

Monica Cellio

1:53 AM

@CharlesKoppelman I don't remember taking any positive action to get Hebrew fonts, but I could be misremembering.

Charles Koppelman

once you add the MT it works

for me

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman You tried it in the inspector?

Charles Koppelman

Quite nicely, too. and the buttons round out, too

@HodofHod yeah

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman Ok. I'll add the MT. I'd really like to know if it changed anything in Chrome. You don't happen to have that installed, do you?

Charles Koppelman

I do but it's very old and i don't like using it

HodofHod

1:56 AM

@CharlesKoppelman K, no worries.

Charles Koppelman

you can just do "New Peninim, New Peninim MT"

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman No, I think MT is part of the official name. For some reason, @Monica's setup adjusts for that.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod I just started a download of Chrome. I'm competing with my husband's networked Diablo game at the moment, but it shouldn't be too bad. (I would really like to know why practically every neighborhood surrounding mine has FiOS but mine doesn't!)

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Oooh, Diablo! I loved playing II as years ago.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod III finally came out earlier this year, which he was very excited about. And then three months after he bought it they announced that they would no longer support OS 10.6, so he ended up moving to 10.8, which caused him some other problems (had to upgrade Parallels, his version of Office no longer works, and something else). Ah, technology...

@HodofHod, ok, I have Chrome. What do I need to do to get a userscript working in it?

HodofHod

2:10 AM

@MonicaCellio Click Menu (The three horizontal lines next to the url bar) Tools, then Extensions.

Then you have to download the .user.js file and drag it into that tab.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ah, gotta love Google's minimalist thing... of course three dots means "menu"... sure it does... Thanks for the tip; test coming up.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Thanks for going to the trouble!!

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod happy to help. Is it supposed to work if one isn't logged in? (I figured I'd try the minimal test...)

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio I... thought it did, but I guess not.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod looks like not. Ok, I logged in and that got me the little keyboard icon. I'm seeing some truncation, but not quite as dire as Jon's. Hang on.

HodofHod

2:22 AM

@MonicaCellio Oh, loads better. Unfortunately, it looks like it needs some more padding on the bottom of the keys, but my browser needs it on the top. A good compromise leaves everyone unhappy. Ah well, I'm still gonna try to fix it.

@MonicaCellio Maybe Chrome also needs the MT. Do you think you can add it?

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod you mean edit the user script and find the font name? Just change it, or should I use the list that somebody (Charles?) suggested?

Seth J

@MonicaCellio I thought it might have been a decision to wait and see.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio That, or use chrome's inspector tool. Right click one of the buttons, and click "Inspect Element".

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ok, using the inspector I seem to have changed the font, and button placement, of one letter. :-) So yeah, looks like that "MT" matters.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Excellent! Thanks so much for your help, and sorry for the bother.

@MonicaCellio I've committed the MT.

Seth J

2:29 AM

@MonicaCellio But don't worry about formulating a full answer for me now. Finish your convo with @HodofHod. I'm off to bed. Good time zone, both of you (and everyone else).

HodofHod

@SethJ Thanks, TZT to you too!

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ^^^ Chrome, newest version

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio I can't win, can I?

:D

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ^^^ Firefox. Those rounded buttons are new for me.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Can I assume that most buttons around the web are rounded for you? I.e., that's the default by you, right?

Monica Cellio

2:38 AM

@HodofHod never really noticed. The ones here in chat are squared off, for instance. I've not paid much attention to what's a button object versus a graphic versus something else. Until your latest commit your buttons were squared off in FF (except the RLM one).

@HodofHod oh wait, it gets weirder. That last FF screen shot was from Hermeneutics, since you enabled this there. It's not the same on Mi Yodeya. There I have squared-off buttons. What?!

(My Chrome testing has been on Mi Yodeya.)

Jon Ericson

2:56 AM

9

Q: Font Choice and Hebrew Rendering

When this site finally makes it out of beta and gets its own design, I'd like to request that the font be serif rather than sans-serif (or at least when rendering Hebrew). Compare these screenshots of BH.SE and MY.SE, showing the exact same Hebrew (and Greek) text. BH.SE (sans-serif) MY.SE (se...

feature-request

I wonder if that's the issue.

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson hmm, good point. But @HodofHod, aren't you naming specific fonts in the script and shouldn't that take precedence?

Jon Ericson

Mi Yodeya in Chrome^^^.

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson and BH in Chrome for you?

Jon Ericson

@MonicaCellio That was the original image I posted.

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson this?

Jon Ericson

3:02 AM

@MonicaCellio Yep.

One Firefox^^^.

Monica Cellio

Ok. @HodofHod, to make comparing these a little easier, the following screenshot shows Mi Yodeya in FF (left) and Chrome (right). Jon, this is with an updated version since you posted your original screenshot. I'll leave BH out of it for now.

HodofHod

Thanks!

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod Jon and I are both seeing some truncation in Chrome. Our buttons are shaped differently, but that might be the script-version delta. (Or not. Beats me.)

Should I move this conversation to the other room? We kind of took over Bam for a couple hours here.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio No. I can't think of any reason that the some lines should be squared and others rounded except for browser issues with margins. Maybe.

@MonicaCellio Sure.

If any of you want to try resizing the keyboard, and letting me know what you see, that might be helpful

Hey, whaddya know, Firefox won't let me resize it.

Monica Cellio

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HodofHod

4:33 AM

@Menachem Can I assume that the Keyboard is working on Linux?

Menachem

@HodofHod כן

HodofHod

I KNEW IT. ITS MACS

sorry.

I'll stop.

HodofHod

5:44 AM

@Menachem Remember this: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/239/…

?

Menachem

@HodofHod yup

@HodofHod I still think of it every time I post a question. Then I choose a couple tags and let msh210 do the rest

HodofHod

@Menachem Sneak preview then:

Who knew the Chametz and Matzah tags would have only 4 questions in common? judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/…

Menachem

6:01 AM

@HodofHod nice

HodofHod

I'm still thinking about UI choices, so I don't want to release it just yet.

Menachem

@HodofHod cool

HodofHod

@Menachem If you have any input, I'd love to hear. Either UI, or function. Right now, it'll scan any inputted tags for related ones, but it's an AND search not an OR. So, if you put chametz and pesach, it'll only give you tags that are related to both. It'll also scan any of the questions that SE suggests for their tags, and show the most common.

Menachem

@HodofHod what does it do before the first tag? I thought this was a great solution: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/239/…

HodofHod

@Menachem That's the second option I mentioned. You can see it in the screenshot "-Based on Similar Questions' Tags"

They're separate options, and do not interact right now.

Menachem

6:09 AM

@HodofHod I didn't realize those were options, I thought it was just information

HodofHod

@Menachem It'll be more apparent when you use it, since that small box slides out when you mouseover the "Suggest Tags" link.

Jon Ericson

3:15 PM

@HodofHod When I make the keyboard bigger, the boarders start to get square.

Menachem

3:36 PM

@HodofHod: Interesting bug in Referencer. I posted this in the comment section. It was enough letters before the expansion, but not enough after the expansion. It just cut off the comment in the middle.

 I found a great example of Rashi's methodology in Rashis `[g Eruvin 18b l], `[g Brachos 61a l], and `[g Brachos 8b l]. In Eruvin, where it says walking behind a synagogue during prayer is worse than walking after idol worship, he says that one should not walk behind the synagogue during prayer because it looks like he's a Kofer.

In Berachot 61A he explains that it is because of a lack of respect to the synagogue. see [M"A 671:12](hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40432&pgnum=364 ) for halachic distinction between the two opinions.

judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/29601/… -- I tried to post the comment at once, but it too big for here

@HodofHod: also, you have to remove the backticks when you copy and paste. Let me know if you can duplicate this

Jon Ericson

2

Q: Integrated virtual keyboards for posts and chat

Over on the Judaism site, HodofHod implemented an integrated virtual keyboard for typing Hebrew: The keyboard works on Biblical Hermeneutics and will work on Hebrew Language & Usage if and when that goes live. This seems like an idea that could easily be extended to other languages/scripts: G...

feature-request user-interface internationalization

Isaac Moses

7:16 PM

in V'dibarta Bam, 11 mins ago, by Isaac Moses

I see what happened. My search ribbon was open at the bottom of my browser, so it pushed the content up so that the buttons were under the keyboard.

@HodofHod ... so the buttons were hidden, and I couldn't see how to make the keyboard go away. If there's a way to make it position itself a fixed distance above the buttons instead of a fixed distance above the bottom of the browser, that would be helpful

HodofHod

7:38 PM

@Menachem Wait, you mean that after the replacement, the comment was over the character limit, but instead of failing, the comment went through, but got cut off?

@IsaacMoses Any chance of a screenshot? I don't understand how the buttons were cut off?

Menachem

9:03 PM

@HodofHod yup

HodofHod

10:04 PM

@Menachem Duplicated. Wow, this is a weird one. My suspicion is, that it's doing the replace between when the local validation is finished, and when the information is sent. Therefore, the local validation can't stop it, and SE's server-side validation cuts it off instead of rejecting it.

A strange behavior for SE, really. But I doubt they'll want to change it, since I am kind of hacking the validation.

@Monica So I was up all night trying to get access to a Mac... No dice.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod up all night? Yikes. Well, it'll be slower but with luck between me and @Jon we can help you test things out.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio I wish I was exaggerating. I really thought I could pull it off. :(

Good news is, I have a theory.

The only keys that have never come out rounded are the bottom row's. I suspect that it may be a height thing. I.e., Mac browsers automatically style short buttons to have those rounded corners, and taller ones to be square.

I might be way off base, though.

It's @Jon's resizing that made me more confident about it, though.

@MonicaCellio Any chance you could try resizing the keyboard and let me know what you see?

msh210

10:21 PM

@HodofHod Similar in idea. (Not that I'm keeping up with this room.)

HodofHod

@msh210 @MonicaCellio Btw, did you see the sneak preview above? Something you might be interested in?

msh210

@HodofHod I didn't. Where?

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod out of curiosity, where were you planning to get a Mac at 4AM?

HodofHod

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/10672808#10672808 And below.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod sure, I'll try that tonight when I get home. How do I resize? Drag a corner like for a window?

HodofHod

10:24 PM

@MonicaCellio mumble mumblevirtualmachinemumble mumble

@MonicaCellio Yep! Bottom right corner.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ah. I guess it makes sense that there'd be VMs for that.

msh210

@Menachem heh

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ok, I'll let you know later.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Thanks!

Monica Cellio

Remember that for me it's "normal" in FF but wonky in Chrome. In Chrome I've done absolutely nothing to customize the browser, having just downloaded it last night, other than install your script. FF is...more complicated.

msh210

10:25 PM

@HodofHod Very cool! Wait... doesn't SO or MSO or somehting have this already?

Charles Koppelman

@HodofHod This happened to me, too. I think you are using "position:fixed" but not updating based on browser resize events

HodofHod

In a related topic: if @JonEricson is a CM, why does he have to put feature-requests on meta?

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod I see that there was a sneak preview of something, that seems to involve a graphic that's blocked for me here at work. So I'll get back to you on that.

Jon Ericson

@HodofHod Heh.

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman This... makes sense.

msh210

10:26 PM

@HodofHod You think the almighty devs listen to a greenhorn? (cc @JonEricson)

Jon Ericson

We are going to be discussing this soonish and it helps to have some community feedback.

Charles Koppelman

@HodofHod you might need to take scroll events into account, too.

HodofHod

@msh210 Hey, I thought we were the horned ones here!

msh210

@CharlesKoppelman ~~Not following the conversation, but window resizings also?~~ Oh, wait, that's what you started with.

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman For a position:fixed? Isn't the whole point of that that scroll doesn't affect it?

Charles Koppelman

10:28 PM

@HodofHod yeah, i think i'm wrong there

Jon Ericson

@msh210 To be fair, it was Oded who came up with the idea to extend to other languages.

HodofHod

@JonEricson Oh, ok. I figured something like that.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod CMs are not the devs, nor the product manager (though I suspect even the PdM has to make feature requests; I didn't get far enough in the interview to ask about that).

HodofHod

@JonEricson No it wasn't.

@RebeccaChernoff To sweeten the deal, you can throw in other keyboards that would be useful for other sites. I.e., accented chars for French, German, and Spanish sites. (Chinese and Japanese keyboards might be too unwieldy, but then again, I have no idea). — HodofHod Jun 1 '12 at 20:13

;)

Jon Ericson

@HodofHod Missed that. Well, there's nothing new under the Sun. ;-)

Charles Koppelman

10:29 PM

@HodofHod maybe it should be relative to the button. that might do what you need

msh210

@JonEricson I don't know who that is.

@msh210 @HodofHod I guess not. (Just tried drafting questions on MSO and SO.) Where did I see it, then?I know I have somewhere....

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman I need to be able to duplicate it before I can test it. I haven't figured out exactly what to do yet.

@msh210 Right, I did some searching before I started, and I didn't find anything.

@MonicaCellio It's a userscript so that when you write or edit a question, you can get tag suggestions based on the tags that are already there, or the tags on similar questions.

msh210

@HodofHod If tagging based on what's there works well, then something's wrong with the tags: they duplicate information.

HodofHod

@msh210 Not necessarily. Pesach and Chametz are related, but not duplicates. And we don't have nested tags yet, so....

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod cool -- I thought from the discussion that it was tag-related. I sometimes struggle with tags but want to make a good effort before defaulting to @msh210 just fixing it. :-)

Charles Koppelman

10:35 PM

@HodofHod In chat, click the button. Then shrink your window from the bottom. Watch your keyboard disappear

Windows FF

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman Ah, I see. Ok, now I know where to start, thanks!

Charles Koppelman

@HodofHod Sure! If you want another fun trick, you can shrink the window from the right and watch the keyboard shrink just a bit late

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod, it just occurred to me to install the keyboard here at work (XP, FF 18). Looks fine in chat but no resize; I get the double-headed arrow that usually means resize but instead it just moves it. Dunno what that means and I'm leaving real soon so no debugging tonight, but just FYI.

HodofHod

@CharlesKoppelman nope

@MonicaCellio Yeah, it's a firefox bug, I'm not quite sure how to fix it yet.

Charles Koppelman

@HodofHod This works better in the main site

HodofHod

10:38 PM

@CharlesKoppelman Main site the keyboard is not fixed.

Charles Koppelman

looks like it's the padding that's relative in chat

msh210

@HodofHod Not necessarily,no, but often. Tagging based on similar questions sounds like a better feature than tagging based on tags already added to the present question. IMO.

HodofHod

@msh210 Agreed, but this offers both, so yay!

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod ok. It's not bothering me, by the way (default size is good for me); just wanted to let you know.

msh210

@HodofHod Yes, for sure! Does it default to one or the other?

Jon Ericson

10:41 PM

Oded ♦, London, United Kingdom

48.9k 18 128 235

discussion support bug status-completed feature-request stackoverflow questions

HodofHod

@msh210 Mouseover the "suggest tags" link and a panel slides down with the two options. Pick one or the other at a time.

What was that!

@MonicaCellio Truthfully, resizing isn't too useful until I make the text resize with it, and the script remember what size you like when you reload the page. Haven't figured that part out yet.

msh210

@JonEricson Ah, thanks.

@HodofHod Nice!

HodofHod

@Charles @IsaacMoses Easy solution. Just make the position:fixed relative to the bottom, not the top.

Menachem

10:59 PM

@HodofHod: Strange new bug, I'm not sure what's causing it. Running Mi Yodeya Referencer 3.5.0 and SE Hebrew Keyboard 0.1.2. -- When I highlight text and linkify it, using the link button on top of the edit box, the preview does not linkify the text until I change something in the edit box, type in a new character, delete an existing one, etc.

HodofHod

@Menachem Tried disabling the keyboard?

Menachem

@HodofHod same behavior after disabling the keyboard

@HodofHod disabling the referencer solved this issue. regardless of whether the keyboard was enabled or disabled.

HodofHod

@Menachem I know what it is...

@Menachem Fixed and committed, thanks!

Menachem

11:25 PM

@HodofHod: Keyboard bug? Version 0.1.4: clicking on the "Shin" or "Sin" nekudah more than once will put additional dots on top of the first dot, going up in a straight line. It also works on any letter: תׂׂׂׂׂׂׂׂׂׂ

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Discussion on Mi Yodeya Userscripts