@PauloCereda The arara thing

@Alenanno: the rule seems to have a delay parameter, maybe it's the one you are looking for.

@Alenanno Yes, the rule repository seems to point this particular bit is from Chris, adapted by me.

@PauloCereda Yes, I did find that earlier, but I thought arara was done by you plus someone else collaborating with you

oh

@Alenanno Main stuff is me indeed, but some rules are contributed. :)

@PauloCereda Gotcha.

@JosephWright tex.stackexchange.com/questions/291636/… Is that ok or against the law?

@Johannes_B ? what's the problem? (Apart for a very unclear question that the OP solved him/herself).

@AlanMunn Dragging a user away to a different place.

@Johannes_B Ah, I see. Drumming up more business for LC but also begging for more of us to answer.... :) Seems a bit counter-productive. I guess it might have been better to move to a chat instead.

@AlanMunn I don't like to deal with this stuff in chat. Somehow, it is also lost for later help seekers.

@Johannes_B But you know my general opinion on rules... :)

@Johannes_B @AlanMunn On the other hand, the question arises due to a lack of knowledgement and could resolved by reading the appropriate material. So a discussion doesn't add to the "knowledge of the world".

@Johannes_B No, it's not. Chats are also permanent. So people can view the chat long after the room itself is inactive.

@AlanMunn Yes i know, still, i don't like it.

@Johannes_B Well that's very often the case for all of us.

@AlanMunn :-)

Friends, can I have an off-topic "poll" question?

@yo' No.

:P

... Ok ok, you can.

@Alenanno ok, I'll pretend it's on topic then.

Wait, in chat, right?

yes, in chat :)

:P go ahead, shoot! (Not literally)

The question is: What smartphone do you use? And: Do you think it makes sense to invest into higher class?

@yo' Define higher class?

@Alenanno Sony Xperia Z3, about EUR350

If you mean, spend some more and invest on a good phone, generally yes. But it depends on your needs.

@yo' What OS?

@Alenanno yeah, well, I'd like the phone to survive more than 1 day, and be capable of being a 4G-to-WiFi hotspot

@yo' I have a Z2.

Best smartphone I ever had in my entire life.

@yo' None at all. :-) If have one of those brand new phones; you cannot swipe, they have buttons.

@yo' If you want it to survive more than one day... don't pick a (powerful) smartphone. :P

@Johannes_B that's what I have as well, but somehow it's time for a change I feel

@yo' I don't

@yo' I fear that point of time in the future.

@JosephWright I see. This is probably a wrong audience :)

@yo' Uh why? lol

@Johannes_B so do I. However, my current phone is slowly retiring and I'm gonna need something new anyway

@Alenanno there's a large density of non-smart people here

@PauloCereda thanks, I take it as that I should consider it an option

I like the fact that they make it in 4" version

@yo' lol ^^ I have a smartphone, but usually they have processes and stuff going on so the battery doesn't last as long as old phones, not because they're worse, but because they do more stuff

I will still use a smartphone despite the slightly shorter battery life

@yo' The nice thing about Sony smartphones is that they are, apart from Nexus, very close to the default Android implementation, so your device is always updated with the last patches.

@Johannes_B I think that for really clueless users, sending them to yet another place may be a bit overwhelming, so I would prefer to solve the issue in chat, and in the chat explain the potential benefits of LC.

@yo' I remember the old times when people said: I got a new phone, look how small it is. In the end, people were barely able to press the right button. Smartphones came up. A friend of mine had several smartphones over the years and they always got bigger.

@Johannes_B Small phones are a pain, except the fact that they fit in pockets more easily lol

@AlanMunn I did not mention that it is L-C.org, and not com. I am a bit worried that the user will get a shock. ;-)

@Alenanno depends on what do you need it for. I have a notebook that I can't work without, so ... :)

The smartphone is more for things like: Instant Gtalk. Calendar. Instant mail reading, ...

@Alenanno The phone she currently has is really big.

@yo I had an Android phone for a while which I liked, but then when I was looking around for a new phone, the only Android phone I liked at the time was so huge I bought an iPhone instead. As a Mac user, the integration is really nice, so I wouldn't go back, in fact.

@AlanMunn I've never had any apple thingy ... :-/

@yo' I have a Nexus 5 and quite happy. :D Despite being a Mac user, I prefer Android on phones.

@yo' I know people who use PCs and yet have iPhones.

@AlanMunn so do I, but still, I feel I need things that are tough to accomplish on a black white box

@yo Yes, I'm a very low-tech person when it comes to apps. I have a few essential ones and that's about it. So I've never seen the need for a wild west OS. :)

@Alenanno /googling it...

@AlanMunn is "wild west" a nickname for Google?

@yo' No, I meant is more for "jail broken".

@yo When I was shopping for Android I really liked the HTC One. I just didn't like the size.

@AlanMunn yeah, if only HTC did a microphone (oh, that's not the right word, is it?)

I returned to my other desktop an found google open. Does anybody know what i was looking for?

@yo' You mean a headphone jack?

@Johannes_B Try googling for it!

@AlanMunn no, I mean a "micro" phone (little phone, 4") in the quality of the One.

@yo' Ah, ok. Yes, I agree, and that's why I didn't buy one. If I wanted to have an iPad in my pocket, I would need larger pockets. :)

@AlanMunn I keep the phone in the cargo pockets, but I still want a compact one

@Johannes_B Clearly you were looking for google, and were successful.

@AlanMunn That's gotta be it.

:-)

@DavidCarlisle Working out how loading font features is supposed to work ...

@DavidCarlisle Ah, I've worked out what I've got wrong with math classes: for variables, you need to know where they should map (so y turns into 𝑦, for example)

@JosephWright i was wondering how far I can push amsmath fixes, it works for luatex (or will if that fix to \meaning happens) but it's \dots lookahead always assumes it is looking for \mathchardef token not a character so making it not error on \Umathchardef is good but doesn't help much if unicode-math is loaded as that just does \let\times× so everything is an implict character, more or less.

@DavidCarlisle Can't you check for that in a two-part test?

@JosephWright yes and then you need to know if the mapping is unicode-math style loop over the mathcodes or if it's his new teckit/lua mapping

@DavidCarlisle Indeed

@DavidCarlisle I'm thinking loading the data from MathClass.txt isn't workable for this reason

@DavidCarlisle I'm actually trying to work out what the script=math switch does when loading Unicode fonts (can't see a difference in XeTeX so slightly stuck doing the same for LuaTeX)

@JosephWright oh sure yes but same is true in pdftex (but harder to construct a plausble example as less characters are in "input" encoding position, but it's in the middle of 15 nested \if tests so if I add it I think I want to add if for pdftex as well, which may not be popular everywhere. Of course you could put a guard on the outside and use the original definition in pdftex, we'll see. anyway I hope to get something for @barbarabeeton to discuss tomorrow

@JosephWright never tested but I thought it didn't read the math table data without that?

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}

\begin{document}
$y = mx + c$

\font\testa="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:script=math;language=DFLT;"
\textfont0=\testa
\[y = mx^2 + c \int \]

\font\testb="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:language=DFLT;"
\textfont0=\testb
\[y = mx^2 + c \int\]

\showoutput
\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle ^^^

@JosephWright not sure that's the right test think you need to go in to unicode-math and disable \l__um_ot_math_bool as unicode math is using the font parameters in \everymath based on the params it thinks its using before th eprimitive font definition, I think...

@JosephWright I'd done too much work on this to not have some source control so it's in git cloned from an empty github repo but I'm wondering if I should push, probably not initially even though that means it relies on me not dropping my laptop:(

@egreg \documentclass{article}

\makeatletter
\def\@ifismacro#1{%
  \begingroup\escapechar=-1
    \edef\x{\endgroup\def\noexpand\first{\string#1}}\x
  \begingroup\escapechar=`\\
    \edef\x{\endgroup\def\noexpand\second{\string#1}}\x
  \ifnum\pdfstrcmp{\first}{\second}=\z@
    \expandafter\@secondoftwo % no backslash in front
  \else
    \expandafter\@firstoftwo  % backslash in front
  \fi}
\def\report#1{\@ifismacro{#1}{\message{CS}}{\message{NON CS}}}
\makeatother



\begin{document}

\report{A}

@egreg code from tex.stackexchange.com/q/21466/2693 doesn't seem to work.

@DavidCarlisle\frozen@everymath{}?

@DavidCarlisle OK

\Umathcodenum`\y=14799974 %
\Umathcodenum`\==6291517 %
\Umathcodenum`\m=14799962 %
\Umathcodenum`\x=14799973 %
\Umathcodenum`\^=94 %
\Umathcodenum`\2=14680114 %
\Umathcodenum`\+=4194347 %
\Umathcodenum`\c=14799952 %

\font\testa="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:script=math;language=DFLT;" at 10.001pt
\textfont0=\testa
$y = mx^2 + c \int $

\font\testb="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:language=DFLT;" at 10.002pt
\textfont0=\testb
$y = mx^2 + c \int $
\bye

or

\Umathcodenum`\y=14799974 %
\Umathcodenum`\==6291517 %
\Umathcodenum`\m=14799962 %
\Umathcodenum`\x=14799973 %
\Umathcodenum`\^=94 %
\Umathcodenum`\2=14680114 %
\Umathcodenum`\+=4194347 %
\Umathcodenum`\c=14799952 %

\font\testa="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:script=math;language=DFLT;" at 10pt
\font\testas="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:script=math;language=DFLT;" at 7pt

\textfont0=\testa
\scriptfont0=\testas
$y = mx^2 + c \int $

\font\testb="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT" at 10pt
\font\testbs="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT" at 7pt

@JosephWright this version shows a difference in the top bar (typesetting wrong in both cases but differently wrong:-)

\Umathcodenum`\y=14799974 %
\Umathcodenum`\==6291517 %
\Umathcodenum`\m=14799962 %
\Umathcodenum`\x=14799973 %
\Umathcodenum`\^=94 %
\Umathcodenum`\2=14680114 %
\Umathcodenum`\+=4194347 %
\Umathcodenum`\c=14799952 %

\font\testa="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:script=math;language=DFLT;" at 10.001pt
\textfont0=\testa
\textfont1=\testa
\textfont2=\testa
\textfont3=\testa

$y = mx^2 + \sqrt{\big( c} \int $

\font\testb="[latinmodern-math.otf]/OT:language=DFLT;" at 10.002pt
\textfont0=\testb
\textfont1=\testb

@AlanMunn In what meaning of “doesn't seem to work”?

@egreg See, a jewel!

\newcommand{\etalnospace}{{\em et al.}}
\newcommand{\todo}[1]{{\bf [TODO: }#1{\bf ]}} % macro for todo entries

\long\def\commentk#1{{\bf ++K: #1++}}
\long\def\commentp#1{{\bf --P: #1--}}

@yo' Wow!

@egreg especially when used as ... direction update than Vicsek \etalnospace and ...

@egreg one more:

    \item An obstacle (denoted $O_m,\ $\mbox{$O_m \in \mathcal{O}$}$,\ $
    \mbox{$m \in \{0,\ \dots, M-1\}$}) is geometrically represented either as

@yo' This user has been bitten by line breaks after \in and wants to avoid them.

@egreg yep

Tell me, why do people want figures "here"? @JosephWright Is it also popular amongst chemists?

@egreg Gives an error. But now I see it's because it uses \pdfstrcmp and I was compiling with LuaTeX.

@yo' Because W@&* has no floats and can make arbitrarily bad pages.

@AlanMunn \usepackage{pdftexcmds} and \pdf@strcmp

@egreg yeah. But is it really the reason?

@yo' Well, they don't read manuals.

@yo' Because for some things you actually want them in exactly the place you put them. Most of the time though, I think it's because they think that every graphic should be a figure, and that's the real problem.

@egreg Great. Thanks.

@yo' Yes

@yo' We normally expect schemes (in particular) to follow under text, similar to the way displayed equations are used by mathematicians. This is true in the typeset literature, not just 'DIY' documents

@JosephWright And would these normally have captions or are they identified some other way?

@DavidCarlisle Ah

@JosephWright well, an equation is an equation, no matter the topic

@AlanMunn They'd have captions

@yo' No, not an equation, a scheme ;-)

@JosephWright So you have worse problems than we do. We number everything like an equation so it's clear that you would not want them to float.

@yo' An equation (to me) might be something like H+ + e- <=> H2 whereas a scheme is something (usually) graphical

@JosephWright In fact, there's a particular kind of tabular representation used in one subfield which is even called a 'tableau' perhaps just to avoid the confusion. (Of course those of us not in that subfield just think it's pretentious. :) )

@AlanMunn It's not a hard-and-fast rule: varies depending on the exact topic, who typesets the material, etc.

@JosephWright Well, would a commutative diagram be a good analog?

@yo' I guess so

@JosephWright ok; this fits in my broader definition of an equation :)

@yo' I guess our issue is we have compounds that have numbers in the text which then are only shown in schemes, so if they get too far apart it gets tricky to follow the flow

@JosephWright well, I sense that the border between a figure and a scheme is verry blurry, but it doesn't mean that a plot of a function with a caption is not a figure and need to be "here" :)

@yo' Yes, sure

@yo' Different colleagues do things differently: just checking over a few of my own papers with different PIs, some of them (like me) stick to 'scheme' only for reactions, some use 'scheme' also for a simple graphic of various compounds, which I'd call a figure or (perhaps) a chart

@JosephWright your "compound" resembles me of huge matrices: these are not tables, but often do not quite fit in an equation, especially in a twocolumn environment, so they can get typeset as floats

@egreg: hi, can I ask for guidance? :)

@PauloCereda Of course. Somebody would say you're asking the wrong person. ;-)

@egreg Never. :)

@egreg: First, the document class I have to use: github.com/lchamon/poliTeX Then this MWE:

\documentclass{politex}

\usepackage{algorithm}
\usepackage{algpseudocode}

\begin{document}

\listadefiguras
\listadetabelas
\listofalgorithms

\end{document}

Do you have any hints why the page generated by \listofalgorithms is slightly shifted down? I have other floats defined with the newfloat package and their indices are displayed correctly.

Of course, the solution might be insanely obvious, but I miss it. :)

@PauloCereda The obvious candidate is that \listofalgorithms is defined with float rather than newfloat

@egreg Oh.

@PauloCereda A fix is in the works.

@egreg I wub you. <3

@egreg: my thesis will be typeset in Lucida just because of you. :)

\documentclass{politex}

\usepackage{algorithm}
\usepackage{algpseudocode}

\makeatletter
\renewcommand{\listof}[2]{%
  \@ifundefined{ext@#1}{\float@error{#1}}{%
    \if@openright\cleardoublepage\else\clearpage\fi
    \ifthenelse{\boolean{@twocolumn}}%
      {\setboolean{ABNTrestorecol}{true}\onecolumn}%
      {\setboolean{ABNTrestorecol}{false}}%
    \ifthenelse{\boolean{ABNThypertoc}}{\renewcommand{\chaptertype}{listof#1s.}}{}%
    \pretextualchapter{#2}%
    \ifthenelse{\boolean{ABNThypertoc}}{\renewcommand{\chaptertype}{}}{}%

@PauloCereda ^^^^^

@egreg Thank you very much! :)

@egreg: uh-oh, sadly I lost the entries. :)

Hold on.

@PauloCereda A fix will arrive shortly

@egreg Oh my, sorry for the big trouble. :(

I should not bother you with my issues. :(

\makeatletter
\renewcommand{\listof}[2]{%
  \@ifundefined{ext@#1}{\float@error{#1}}{%
    \@namedef{l@#1}{\@dottedtocline{1}{1.5em}{2.3em}}%
    \if@openright\cleardoublepage\else\clearpage\fi
    \ifthenelse{\boolean{@twocolumn}}%
      {\setboolean{ABNTrestorecol}{true}\onecolumn}%
      {\setboolean{ABNTrestorecol}{false}}%
    \ifthenelse{\boolean{ABNThypertoc}}{\renewcommand{\chaptertype}{listof#1s.}}{}%
    \pretextualchapter{#2}%
    \ifthenelse{\boolean{ABNThypertoc}}{\renewcommand{\chaptertype}{}}{}%

@PauloCereda ^^^^^

@egreg IT WORKS! <3

@egreg: thank you very much, Enrico! <3

@PauloCereda or perhaps obvious to the insane

@egreg: thank you again again! <3

@PauloCereda It was just a matter of planting the \listoffigures setup into \listof

@egreg But you knew where to do that. :)

@PauloCereda I had some ideas where to look at

@egreg :) That one is the class I have to use.

@PauloCereda With that fancy chapter style! You should be really happy!

@PauloCereda By the way, -518 to 450K. A couple of days. ;-)

@egreg Thankfully, Lucida saves the day. :)

@egreg wooo

what's this soup bowl thing? some kind of cricket?

@PauloCereda ”What a strange Times“ some secretary will say.

@egreg That's the exact reaction I am expecting! :)

@PauloCereda Tell them it's Times Newer Roman

@egreg LOL

@egreg: last question and I promise to shut up. :) Is there a way to add a little space between the title and the entries? It seems the other ones are a little lower. :)

@PauloCereda I'm not seeing it

@egreg Oh hold on. :)

@egreg ^^ I tried to put them side by side.

@PauloCereda This is what I get

@egreg Oh no worries then. :)

Sorry for the noise. :)

@PauloCereda Send me a sample, I may have a look tomorrow during the test.

@egreg Thank you. :)

@egreg: sample sent, thank you again. :)