@WillRobertson Seriously, though, if AMS are moving to using XeLaTeX for some production we need to be mindful of what can change and how it's notified
@JosephWright No, don't, this would reduce the number of new TeX.SX questions suddenly ... half of the questions would drop away ... No, no, no! Objection, my Lord!!!!
@TorbjørnT. Strange... I could not reload the page for some minutes now, while other websites worked without problems... It's working again, thanks anyway
@JosephWright Damn, I just realised I needed to set "packtdszip" to true… and now building for CTAN will check all my tests again. Don't worry, I'm not going to argue that testing should be optional!!
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Well, wish me luck. Uploading v0.8 of unicode-math with all the breaking changes in it for \mathit and friends. Also the fix for expl3 :)
@DavidCarlisle I guess there's not much difference between receiving a steady stream of bugs about expl3 broken-ness and a new stream of bugs relating to issues in the new code :)
@DavidCarlisle Assuming they install the latest version they should get good stability: @WillRobertson's now sorted the issues from the earlier versions :-)
@JosephWright No, definitely my fault! Next step: are you happy with [strict] as an expl3 option which (initially) just removes deprecated commands and doesn't load l3candidates? Bruno can then eat his heart out adding extra features in time. If so, what to do about [check-declarations] ?
@WillRobertson Yes on the deprecated commands, not sure about candidates: the whole point of that part is to get almost-right ideas tested
@WillRobertson Speaking of candidates, I've got some thoughts on active chars. I'll raise them once we finish with upTeX: relates to \lowercase, for which I'm preparing a lot of notes!
I often come to a point, where I want a plot of a set of data or just a simple function to be included into my TeX file. The usual naive approach would be to save the plot as a vector or pixel graphic and just import it with the graphicx package.
But this has a downside. Axeslabels for example a...
@JosephWright True… but an "almost-right" function can change or disappear in 12 months, so sort of makes sense for [strict] to avoid you from falling into that particular trap. I can leave that out until we discuss further, though.
@barbarabeeton I am aware of the interest the AMS has in XeTeX, but I’m not sure what I can do about it. Of course I’m happy to help with the transition if I have time (which I probably won’t have much of), but eventually there will need to be a transition as XeTeX is not compatible with pdfTeX and has never been supposed to be.
@barbarabeeton It strikes me that what the AMS is missing is probably more technical support than specific features in the engine
@DavidCarlisle Something like that, yes. We had an email exchange with some of the pTeX developers in 2010 when it was added to TeX Live and we needed to do some nonsense with the hyphenation patterns, with some precise technical specification of what pTeX does, I can try and dig it up if you want.
@JosephWright For all the talk about RTL support in XeTeX I wish to point out that it already works very well for most documents :-) People use it in production, and it’s definitely possible to produce great output. The actual issues, as you know, are with some specials such as colour markup.
@JosephWright Sure. By the way, if I could have a list of requirements from the LaTeX team at some point that would be great. Even a very short summary would help.
@ArthurReutenauer The problem is that it's hard to abstract TeX--XeT and the Omega model into a single interface, and while the TeX--XeT issues are somewhat specialised it's not really ideal to say 'here is a new format but don't use RTL with XeTeX and expect it to work fully'
@ArthurReutenauer Ideally, a model in XeTeX that can be abstracted to something close to that in LuaTeX (which uses the Omega approach). That doesn't mean they have to be the same, but TeX--XeT being tied to hmode is a problem
@JosephWright That’s great to hear. We definitely need \lccode to do reasonable things for hyphenation. While I’m at it, where is the code that generates unicode-letters.def from Unicode data? I haven’t looked into it yet, admittedly.
@JosephWright Thanks, that still doesn’t give me much to work on, but I’ll figure something out. Hopefully.
@ArthurReutenauer LuaTeX uses the model from Omega but with some bug fixes and of course no longer in WEB format. Ideally we'll get John Plaice interested, as he knows this code, but as Omega is still about it should be possible to get the sources and extract the directional model stuff
@ChristianHupfer Oh, sure, but as a piece of advice it’s terrible. It’s something all of us do at some point, but to make it into a policy is just bad. Besides, you never know if (or when) someone else will have to work with the source file, so the second sentence should just be replaced by “true”, and the all statement falls apart.
@JosephWright I was more asking about feature requirements rather than code; I can always extract the code, that’s no problem, but the really useful thing to have is requirements from users – or in this case macro programmers.
@ChristianHupfer Oh, right. I thought your sentence was a quote from somewhere, I googled it in both English and a German translation I came up with, to no avail ;-)
@JosephWright I wouldn’t rely on John to contribute to it. Last time I sent him a bugfix was eleven years ago, he still hasn’t applied it.
@JosephWright Thanks, that’s helpful. So I take it you’re considering as letters all Unicode characters of general categories L* and M*, and only them?
@ArthurReutenauer Ideas-wise we are really still at the 'TeX--XeT isn't right but we've not looked at all of the detail' stage. However, the concepts from Omega/Aleph seem to work well (separate ideas of text, paragraph, body, math and page direction). Notably that's what LuaTeX have gone with and so for our own sanity it would be easiest if the same idea was available in XeTeX.
@ArthurReutenauer Before I started using TeX (or perhaps about the same date)
@ArthurReutenauer I did say 'ideally' :-)
@ArthurReutenauer Yes, taking the idea more-or-less directly from Jonathan Kew's Perl script. Seems reasonable to me
@JosephWright speaking of generating things from unicode data files have you looked at /usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/tex/context/base/char-def.lua
@JosephWright not currently loaded by luaotfload but referenced in comments in luaotfload-auxiliary.lua
@JosephWright Yes, that’s ConTeXt’s equivalent of unicode-letters.def (except in Lua of course), with some additional data.
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle I already suggested to Bruno to have a look at it in order to find out what data from Unicode is necessary – or useful – to TeX.
@JosephWright There’s more than UnicodeData.txt to it since it also has line breaking properties, East Asian widths (I think), etc.
I was just using some primary versions of MikTeX 2.9 and had below error within using both LuaLaTeX & XeLaTeX:
`Enter file name:
C:\Program Files\MiKTeX 2.9.5105>lualatex.exe C:\Users\Matinking\Desktop\CV_\CV_
.tex
This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.70.1-2012011814 (MiKTeX 2.9)
(C:/User...
Just got hit by the transparency in PNG causes strange colors in Adobe Reader. I found a nice answer which works fine tex.stackexchange.com/a/9266/3929, but it only applies to pdflatex and xelatex. What about lualatex?
@daleif there was a fix for that (or related problem at least) in the github version of luaotfload but just got it taken out... github.com/lualatex/luaotfload/issues/282
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, I think I'll just wait to see if any lualatex users complain. And then take it from there. The two fixes for pdftex and xelatex works just fine.
Yes, but requires a problematic PNG and the one I'm using is not something I can post everywhere. As in the github you are pointing to it is beamer related. I'll post the code then see if you can find a problematic PNG
If I compile that with a problematic PNG using pdflatex and view it in AR for linux (9.5) then the color in the rectangle on the first page is not the same on the second page. Evince shows the same colors.
sorry that's what I meant: `\pdfpageattr{/Group <</S /Transparency /I true /CS /DeviceRGB>>} \begin{document}` but for me that seems to fix it in lualatex as well
@DavidCarlisle Seems to work. I've added it into my theme so people can activate it with a theme option. Not sure if it would make sense to enable it by default.
@daleif all the ones actually related to PDf are there I think. Some of the ones that just had pdf in their name as they were introduced in pdftex (like \pdftexbanner or \pdfstrcmp) are either losing pdf from their name or being dropped (if implementable in lua)
I only noticed the problem because one feature in the theme is to give a construction to give a colored page with just the university logo and name. And I had the PNG logo in the footer which is not present on that page. => debugger mode
@cfr I think you were commenting today on one letter commands, one i noticed in te example (can't find it) was a font change to Lucida Grande using \H. Look at that: https://www.google.de/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=SDi6VfPVJuuG8QfwjKiACg&gws_rd=ssl#q=\newfontfamily{\H}[Scale%3D0.9]{Lucida+Grande}
@ChristianHupfer use supertable that does the page breaking itself so could have that easily, the whole idea of longtable was to use tex page breaking so it's like asking if you can have \iftopofpage in a paragraph, you can't for same reason, tex might have expanded all the macros and if tests in the whole table before deciding where to break the pages
@DavidCarlisle: Oh no, I don't want to do the breaking manually. I just want to inject some other code or forbide some code after page breakings in the table.
@ChristianHupfer no I didn't mean break by hand but supertab does the page breaking decision in the macros, so knows it has started a new table, longtable doesn't have any clue it just makes the whole table and an output routine is invoked from time to time that chops up pages.
@JohnMolokach that's why it's better to ask questions requiring code on site not in chat:-) (but you can past in multi line text in if you type it elsewhere) start with \documentclass though if you want someone to reproduce an error
\begin{enumerate} \item For the function $y=x,$ find the derivative, $y'.$ \[y'=\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{(x+h)-x}{h}=\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{h}{h}=\lim_{h\to 0}1=1.\] \item For the function $y=x^2,$ find the derivative, $y'.$ \begin{align*} y'=\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{(x+h)^2-x^2}{h}&=\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{x^2+2xh+h^2-x^2}{h}\\ &=\lim_{h\to 0}\frac{2xh+h^2}{h}=\lim_{h\to 0}(2x+h)=2x. \end{align*} \begin{center} \begin{framed} For the next two examples, we will use the angle sum formula for sine, which is \[\sin(\alpha+\beta)=\sin\alpha\cos\beta+\cos\alpha\sin\beta.\]
The error message in on the line that reads \end{framed}
@JohnMolokach that fragment won't run on its own, I'm not going to debug by eye. Please make a real example that reproduces the error and post as a question, that's what the site is for.
@JohnMolokach why all those \displaystyle (and \dfrac) in the alignment? it's set displaystyle anyway.
@DavidCarlisle that was code pasted from another place and I never edited that out. I pasted working code on the site but it is a large block and looks horrible. How to paste code that looks readable?
@JohnMolokach was just writing that remove center:-)
@JohnMolokach not looked at the code for framed for a decade or so, but presumably it's picking up the indentation from the list (but making the frame full width) tcolorbox or mdframed a lot newer and probably have more features.
@JohnMolokach if you edit on site there is a {} button in the GUI for the editor, highlight text and hit that (or control-k keyboard shortcut) and it makes a code block
? It is more work for me to \label everything then the handful of times I will actually need to refer to a section. To me it is just convenient, not fighting the system.
I am writing this for high school students. No numbered equations. Almost no reference to anything numbered.
@JohnMolokach but still you edit one section in or out, and the number is wrong, you make a pdf version, and can't make it link,... Sensible control over cross referencing is really one of latex's main selling points, so you bought the system then not using it. Admittedly it's a zero cost system but still:-)
oh I see... you mean someone could click on that part of the text and it take them back to the section.... Attractive if I referred to something way back, but my students will probably not care if it is something from a page or two prior.
@JohnMolokach possibly not but the main advantage (latex after all predates pdf by some years) is not the linking it's getting the number right automatically even if you edit the text to add a new section etc)
@DavidCarlisle I am a big fan of tcolorbox though.... I have it in the code elsewhere and I should change all \begin{framed}, \end{framed} to \begin{tcolorbox}[colback=white], \end{tcolorbox}
@DavidCarlisle I remember this was very helpful in a 100+ page Master's Thesis : )
@DavidCarlisle re: \ref{}
@DavidCarlisle I am also finding the \begin{center} ... \end{center} can be replaced with \centerline{...}, yes? This seems to suppress errors.
Tagged spelling since some wonderful person is probably watching it for these quick fixes and it's in the same spirit as a simple typo.
Please replace the hyphens on the careers profile page with en-dashes, Unicode code point U+2013. Hyphens are for hyphenated words only. Reference: The Punctu...
@JohnMolokach not really: \centerline isn't a latex command, just a hangover from plain. most environments that work in center don't work in \centerline, try just putting a paragraph of text for example)
@JosephWright possibly done, I was just thinking now I might rejig the docstrip guards to add \Provides... lines and rename emu-luatexbase to luatexbase (it's all explicitly experimental so can back that bit out if needed:-) then we can go back to Elie and say we'll release this unless you say no...
@JosephWright I don't think it's useful, it's hardly an example of what any documentation for latex or plain macro packages says you should do, and if you really have a different catcode setup (say xmltex) it doesn't work anyway as \ isn't catcode 0
@DavidCarlisle, ok. I have really been using some outdated LaTeX I learned from some of my professors in grad school. Thanks for being such a great help.
@JosephWright added the guards (I hate docstrip sometimes:-) will do renaming in a bit, will need to adjust tests to match and got some non tex stuff to do first...
@ChristianHupfer No, there were a lot of riots, but FIFA asked for hundreds of policemen nearby stadiums. The stadiums were all insanely overpriced, all paid with public money, lots of corruption and negligence.
@PauloCereda I think football has a better standing in people's mind than Olympic Games, there's more money to earn with merchandising articles for football.
@JosephWright done (doc needs a bit more work) also the plain tests assume new stuff installed in path (I symlinked my local tex/latex/ltluatex to tex/luatex/ltluatex for now)
Which is the best way to put function graphs into a LaTeX document?
I was just using some primary versions of MikTeX 2.9 and had below error within using both LuaLaTeX & XeLaTeX:
`Enter file name:
C:\Program Files\MiKTeX 2.9.5105>lualatex.exe C:\Users\Matinking\Desktop\CV_\CV_
.tex
This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.70.1-2012011814 (MiKTeX 2.9)
(C:/User...
Tagged spelling since some wonderful person is probably watching it for these quick fixes and it's in the same spirit as a simple typo.
Please replace the hyphens on the careers profile page with en-dashes, Unicode code point U+2013. Hyphens are for hyphenated words only. Reference: The Punctu...
