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Anonymous
12:43 AM
Can't put straight quotes (\textquotedbl) inside first optional argument of Section[...]{...}? At least: they give no output in the table of contents.
 
Anonymous
Please disregard my last message. Just had to compile once more ...
 
2:05 AM
Any latex expert around? I keep getting emergency stop on small code, and do not see what the error is.
Here it is. I am learning newenvironment
\documentclass[12pt]{book}%
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{longtable}
\usepackage{listings}

\newenvironment{CODE}{\begin{lstlisting}}{\end{lstlisting}\ignorespacesafterend}

\begin{document}
\begin{CODE}
x
\end{CODE}
\end{document}
I must be doing something silly, but can't see what it is.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:16 AM
@Nasser You can't do that with lstlisting.
 
@Nasser You can't put a listings env. inside another one: it's verbatim-like so needs to find the literal \end{lstlistings}
@Nasser listings has a mechanism to define new code environments: you have to use that
 
ok, thanks. I think I have a better question on newenv,. I have struggling with for last 30 minutes. I'll ask it soon. I am learning how to make new env.
Let see how is the smart Latex expert here who can figure this one. This code works ok:
\documentclass[12pt]{book}%
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{breqn}
\newenvironment{myequation}
{\begin{dmath*}}{\end{dmath*}\ignorespacesafterend}

\begin{document}
\begin{myequation}%
x
\end{myequation}
\end{document}
NOw why does this code does not work?
\documentclass[12pt]{book}%
\usepackage{amsmath}

\newenvironment{myequation}
{\begin{align}}{\end{align}\ignorespacesafterend}

\begin{document}
\begin{myequation}%
x
\end{myequation}
\end{document}
I simply changed dmath to align ! Nothing else. I really do not understand newenv. at all
If you think it is worth asking this on main board, if it useful, I will.
 
@Nasser You cannot do that with align.
Same reason, it needs to see the \end{align} on its own, not hidden.
 
@Johannes_B but why? Why it works with dmath? How is a user to know?
 
@ChristianHupfer @AlanMunn Don't get me started on templates.
@Nasser As i said, there are several environments, that you just can't hide. align, verbatim, lstlistings come to mind.
 
5:30 AM
Ok, may be I should then ask, is there a Latex environment, which would allow me to do the above? I need to make new environments, for tex4ht and pdflalatex. I need to be able to do something like the above.
 
5:42 AM
I'll ask this on main board and see.
 
Anonymous
6:00 AM
I am looking for a package to "scheme-caption collaged images", in the following way: The real image will be put somewhere on the left side of the .PDF, whereas the captions will be put on the right side of a page, next to the image. Each image (.jpg) is actually a collage of sub-images, so ideally I would like to have the captions of the sub-images placed within a scheme which resembles the collage of the images. ... Any suggestions on that? I could just use tables perhaps, for the captions?
 
Anonymous
Please note that I do not need to have real "captions" in a LaTeX-sense. They do not need to be linked to the images or so.
 
Anonymous
With "scheme", I should mean "diagram" perhaps?
 
Anonymous
This is an example of an image (.jpg) before being turned: slq.imgix.net/images/slq/pub/2014-05-14/research/… You can see they come with captions, which I would like to convert into real digitalized text.
 
Anonymous
I'm thinking of making the caption-diagrams perhaps simply in a GUI-graphical editor (GIMP and the like), and then save them as a .svg. Would it perhaps be possible to add the caption-text to the .svg caption-diagrams then in Tex, that is: for each different "object" of the .svg for example (sub-images)?
 
Anonymous
I don't know of any Tex-package to annotate specific objects of a .svg (e.g. in the center of the object, and trying not to overflow it). If I would not use a GUI, I would perhaps just use something as tex.stackexchange.com/a/238504/67761
 
6:29 AM
@Nasser Again verbatim-like: align reads the entire content and does some trial typesetting
 
6:51 AM
@Nasser this is clearly documented if you go texdoc amsmath and read the manual
@Nasser the user knows the same way they know that there is an environment called align
 
1
Q: Overthinking it: document class report vs book for a thesis

MarkI apologize in advance for the long wall of text; there is probably some way to condense this question to half the size without losing anything important, but I'm not sure which half to remove. I recently finished writing my thesis, and this involved some last minute freaking out about the forma...

Long wall indeed.
 
Anonymous
Ok, regarding my many lines of text written just above, I have now tried to propose a question to achieve the desired result, under the OP-title "Image overlay generator - How to annotate sub-images in the center of each overlay box?". I apologize for not being able to come up with a MWE.
 
@VincentVerheyen we have an existing question on the differences between the standard classes (there are hardly any differences, they are all generated from the same file)
 
@DavidCarlisle Do you meant to ping me?
 
Anonymous
@Johannes_B I guess not me?
 
7:03 AM
@Johannes_B @VincentVerheyen I meant to ping somebody:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle :-)
 
Anonymous
@DavidCarlisle It's over my head. I have a very low overhead.
 
Anonymous
So there's no way a TeX document can include SVGs with mouse-over-hover (e.g. changing opacity) functionality?
 
7:44 AM
@Johannes_B Jeden Tag eine gute Tat!
 
@ChristianHupfer Templates ...
 
@Johannes_B Nudge, nudge... say no more @PauloCereda
 
@VincentVerheyen if you can do it in pdf you can do it in tex, but most such dynamic effects are very dependent on the pdf viewer being used.
 
Anonymous
I am trying to get a .jpg as an \includegraphics to be transparent to a certain extent (opacity) ... Can't get it to work though.
 
@ChristianHupfer I love Crossposts.
 
7:54 AM
@VincentVerheyen I've included transparent png never tried jpg no idea what the format supports.
 
@DavidCarlisle Don't think JPG has the possibility for alpha channels.
 
Anonymous
@DavidCarlisle Ok, now found it via tex.stackexchange.com/questions/86500/… Just had to include \usepackage[english]{babel}.
 
@VincentVerheyen .jpg don't support transparency, as far as I know
 
@VincentVerheyen that makes no sense: babel has nothing whatsoever to do with images
 
Anonymous
@ChristianHupfer I mean to make it opacity 20, not to have full transparency in some part and not in others.
 
Anonymous
7:56 AM
@DavidCarlisle If I try the first answer of tex.stackexchange.com/a/86501/67761, I need to input a language.
 
@VincentVerheyen the answer as posted doesn't use babel at all
 
Anonymous
@DavidCarlisle I know, but I can't compile without it.
 
@VincentVerheyen you mean you can't compile exactly that or you can't compile a fragment of that copied to your document
 
Anonymous
@DavidCarlisle My apologies. Now seems to work fine, as you had expected. Don't know where I got confused.
 
@VincentVerheyen Well, opacity level is a relative transparency -- if transparency is an unsupported feature, opacity levels mean nothing then, in my point of view
 
8:00 AM
@VincentVerheyen If you use babel in one run, and not in the next, there will be an error because babel stuff is still in the log file. Ignore it in that run, it will be gone in the next runs.
 
Anonymous
Coming back to the quoted answer (tex.stackexchange.com/a/86501/67761): with regards to \AddToShipoutPicture*{, is it possible to use this answer, when one would like to print multiple images, and on different pages? I don't know how to control where to print what image. --- But the answers provided there seems to be the only way to get transparency on a .jpg?
 
Anonymous
@Johannes_B Thanks. That might hint as to what I did not understand.
 
@VincentVerheyen yes just don't use \AddToShipoutPicture* just use a normal float or minipage or whatever. That part is nothing to do with transparency it's just about positioning a watermark at a fixed point on the page not in the text flow
 
Anonymous
Reply to myself ... Ok, maybe I don't need to use that \AddToShipoutPicture*{?
 
Anonymous
@DavidCarlisle Thanks for your help.
 
8:06 AM
Does that really answer the question? tex.stackexchange.com/a/311545
 
Anonymous
But when I use the following, the transparency doesn't work any more:
 
Anonymous
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{transparent}
\usepackage{tikz}

\newcommand*\annotatedFigureBoxCustom[8]{\draw[#5,thick,rounded corners] (#1) rectangle (#2);\node at (#4) [fill=#6,thick,shape=circle,draw=#7,inner sep=2pt,font=\sffamily,text=#8] {\textbf{#3}};}
\newcommand*\annotatedFigureBox[4]{\annotatedFigureBoxCustom{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{white}{none}{none}{black}}
\newcommand*\annotatedFigureText[4]{\node[draw=none, anchor=north east, text=#2, inner sep=0, text width=#3\linewidth,font=\sffamily] at (#1){#4};}
 
@VincentVerheyen too much code for chat:-) (and too much tikz for polite society:-)
@VincentVerheyen I have no idea about tikz but it has its own transparency settings so perhaps it conflicts with the transparent package. Perhaps use one or the other.
 
Anonymous
@DavidCarlisle Ok thanks, I'll try to figure out how to use that (from tikz) with \includegraphics.
 
@VincentVerheyen Remove the \transparent{0.4} and add opacity=0.4 to the options for the node containing the image.
 
Anonymous
8:14 AM
@TorbjørnT. Ok, just need to figure out where the "node" is, or how to create one. I think the \includegraphics is not using a "node" (not using tikz even)?
 
@VincentVerheyen You have \node [<list of options>] (image) at (0,0) {#1};
 
Anonymous
@TorbjørnT. Thanks. Works great.
 
Anonymous
Now I just wished I could elegantly calculate the center (x and y) of a tikz-rectangle -> to obtain the 4th argument in \annotatedFigureBox{0.183,0.626}{0.493,0.816}{dsf dsf dsf dsf}{0.3,0.8} based on whatever coordinates in the first 2 arguments (i.e. of the rectangle).
 
Anonymous
It's just \annotatedFigureBox{0.183,0.626}{0.493,0.816}{A dsf dsf sdf sdf dsf sdf }{0.676/2,1.442/2}%bl, of course. So I would like to have 4th argument to be replaced by (x1+x2)/2, (y1+y2)/2. Easy-peasy maths but how to code it into Tex? The (first 3) arguments are {x1, y1}{x2, y2}{A dsf dsf sdf sdf dsf sdf }

I am just trying to change the {label-postition} of http://ff.cx/latex-overlay-generator/#/v0.0.1 to the center of the FigureBox.
 
@VincentVerheyen you should drop the explicit coordinates and just ask tikz to position stuff at the centre of the node it just made (must be easy but I don't know tikz:-)
 
yo'
8:26 AM
the period glyph is identical for the upright and italic CM/LM, right?
(hello, btw)
 
@yo' yes I think so
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle and is the fact that \shortintertext{ foobar} prints the space before foobar considerable as a bug? (since you're the maintainer of amsmath now...)
 
@VincentVerheyen Do you just want to make a rectangle with rounded corners that has some text in it?
 
@yo' "latex 3 project" not me:-)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle c'mon :-)
 
8:28 AM
@VincentVerheyen Try tcolorbox or mdframed
 
@yo' possibly (get @JosephWright to decide:-)
@barbarabeeton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
yo'
(I yet have to test that it's not a mathtools' fault)
 
Anonymous
@TorbjørnT. I do, but I would like the rectangles to be in a location which could be easily determined using ff.cx/latex-overlay-generator/#/v0.0.1., to make it overlay on an image. (... and in an ideal world, I would love to rotate some of the rectangles slightly ... I didn't said that ... that would have been too much ... I was just coughing ...)
 
@VincentVerheyen In your code you do the drawing of the rectangle and the positioning of the text in two steps, which is pointless I think. \node [above right,draw,rounded corners,rotate=10] at (x,y) {Some text};
@VincentVerheyen In the above, above right means that the lower left corner of the rectangle is placed at (x,y).
@VincentVerheyen I didn't include all the options you have in the code you posted above, as you can see.
 
Anonymous
@TorbjørnT. I would love to understand better how to implement your advised code. I can't dis-entangle the existing code (taken from ff.cx/latex-overlay-generator/#/v0.0.1) due to lack of knowledge.
 
8:40 AM
@VincentVerheyen Well, if you want to know about TikZ then the tutorials in the first few chapters of the manual is a decent place to start.
 
Anonymous
@TorbjørnT. Ok. I'll go at it.
 
yo'
9:03 AM
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright @barbarabeeton MWE:
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{amsmath}

\usepackage{showframe}

\begin{document}

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam fringilla dictum metus. Donec euismod diam eget augue tempus, vel facilisis eros maximus:
\begin{align*}
  A &= B,
  \intertext{
therefore
  }
  C &= DEF,
\end{align*}
quod erat demonstrandum.

\end{document}
 
Anonymous
9:14 AM
@TorbjørnT. I'm trying with \annotatedFigureBox{0.283,0.406}{0.593,0.596}{AD}{($ (#1)!.5!(#2) $)} :D But that doesn't seem to help.
 
@VincentVerheyen Don't have a lot of time to spend on that at the moment, perhaps later today. Did you add \usetikzlibrary{calc}?
 
Anonymous
@TorbjørnT. Not yet. Thanks for that advice.
 
Anonymous
@TorbjørnT. Ok. Found a solution! The \newcommand*\annotatedFigureBoxCustom... etc ... should be completed with \node at ($ (#1)!.5!(#2) $) instead of \node at (#4).
 
@yo' grumble who added \noindent ? that's almost always the wrong thing to have. If it does have it it should be \noindent\ignorespaces (line 2548 of amsmath.dtx)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle yeah. I mean, I grumble who decided not to make \ignorespaces a part of \noindent :-)
 
9:26 AM
@yo' what have Stanford professors ever done for us?
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle :-) I mean, Lamport could do that
 
@yo' tricky to do that and make \noindent act like the primitive.
 
@yo' Not written by Lamport, though
 
@yo' executive decision: it's a bug.
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle probably yes, I agree. Maybe \let\@@noindent\noindent\def\noindent{\@@noindent\ignorespaces} or \def\noindent{\everypar{\everypar{}\@@noindent}}
 
9:29 AM
@yo' that will break so much:-)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle it wouldn't if it were there since the very beginning, would it?
 
@yo' well that would be slightly safer, but difficult to arrange now.
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle I don't argue
 
9:43 AM
@yo' (@daleif) above bug is copied from amsmath to mathtools in three places, look for \noindent#(#)1\par
 
10:20 AM
@DavidCarlisle all that is needed is \ignorespaces?
 
yo'
@daleif yes (I suppose)
anyway, it's lunch time now.
 
@daleif yes
@daleif assuming we can't put \def\noindent{DONT USE THIS} in the format.
 
@DavidCarlisle well sometimes you do want to use \noindent because some somethings are hard after an environment
@DavidCarlisle fixed in sources, not sure when I'm going to release, still need to find a good solution to the order issue with some packages that are using expl3, and no at the moment I'm not going to switch mathtools and empheq directly to expl3, I find it nice that mathtools and empheq only depend on mhsetup and standard packages.
 
10:39 AM
Quack!
 
@daleif better to use \@afterheading almost always
@daleif I expect amsmath will be in the same state.
@PauloCereda \noindent
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
@DavidCarlisle but this suppress page breaks. Btw: I find it very hard to always suppress the parindent after an environment. See e.g. tex.stackexchange.com/a/309255/2388 -- still don't work with breakable boxes.
 
10:54 AM
@DavidCarlisle does that work at the end part of \newenvironment?
Didn't in my simple test
@DavidCarlisle same state?
 
@JosephWright Ready to go?
 
@TorbjørnT. fixed at source but no rush to release to ctan
 
@TorbjørnT. Just about
 
@UlrikeFischer: You're a MikTeX user, perhaps you can verify that xcolor is not in the basic MiKTeX distribution as the error seems to indicate in this post: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311553/…
 
@DavidCarlisle Was that to me, or @daleif?
 
10:58 AM
@UlrikeFischer yes well the bit of \@afterheading that removes indentation (or equivalently the bit of \endlist that does the same.
@TorbjørnT. oops I meant @daleif that's twice today I've replied to wrong line:-)
 
@ChristianHupfer I can't verify this. xcolor is installed for me and I won't go and install a basic only for this test. When someone install the basic installation he/she should simply expect to have to install more packages.
 
@UlrikeFischer Same here
 
@UlrikeFischer Well, that's what I've commented (somehow) then.
 
@ChristianHupfer same user probably needs tabu: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311569/…
 
@DavidCarlisle Very likely, but as you commented: \tabulinesep is not a tabu command, is it?
 
11:09 AM
@ChristianHupfer yes, it is, I checked tabu.sty before suggesting tabu.
 
@ChristianHupfer Yes it is
\RequirePackage{tabu}
\show\tabulinesep
> \tabulinesep=macro:
->\edef \tabu@C@linesep {\the \numexpr \tabu@C@linesep +1}\iftabu@everyrow \aft
ergroup \tabu@Glinesep \else \aftergroup \tabu@n@Glinesep \fi \@ifnextchar ={\t
abu@gobbletoken \tabu@linesep } \tabu@linesep .
 
@DavidCarlisle Alright, I never use tabu, so it is
@JosephWright Thanks
 
@ChristianHupfer I never use tex:-)
3
 
@DavidCarlisle I wonder who starred that.
 
@PauloCereda dinner
 
11:11 AM
@PauloCereda You!!!!!
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no!
@ChristianHupfer Oh no!
 
@PauloCereda Oh yes! :D
An example from messy-preambles.org ;-)
 
11:43 AM
@ChristianHupfer looks fairly clean....
 
Anonymous
12:25 PM
Ok, so I answered my own question, sort of (in a newbish way), at tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311536/…. But, I am still wondering how to automatically reduce the width of (or elegantly automatically typeset) {the caption you'd like to give to the sub-image} to fit within the rectangle it belongs to. Any advice please?
 
Anonymous
For a graphical explanation of an expression of the problem, cf. the words in the answer [...] "Unfortunately, (due to the lengthy" [...], and the image that accompanies it below.
 
12:50 PM
@DavidCarlisle I revised (but left deleted) my much derided answer at tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311424/…. Is it characteristically any better or still a non-answer, in your opinion?
 
@VincentVerheyen Well getting line breaks in tikz nodes is not difficult. You only need to look in the documentation. But your question is imho much to long and convoluted. It looks as if it would take already an hour to find out what your problem is and I neither have the time nor the interest to do it.
 
@JosephWright I don't agree with your edit: the URL I gave has the CTAN interfaces, the mirror one just a file list. I'll roll back.
@JosephWright When one wants to download, CTAN.org will redirect to the nearest mirror by itself.
 
1:05 PM
@StevenB.Segletes it's OK in itself but I think any answer is hopeless as the question isn't meaningful.
 
@DavidCarlisle Thanks! I will leave it be then.
 
@egreg OK, but they do ask everyone not to link to the main server ...
@egreg I assumed you were aiming for the file list: if you want the info the ctan.org/pkg/... is the usual way
 
@egreg: Happy holiday!
 
> nslookup ctan.org

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:	ctan.org
Address: 176.28.54.184

> nslookup mirror.ctan.org

Non-authoritative answer:
mirror.ctan.org	canonical name = comedy.dante.de.
Name:	comedy.dante.de
Address: 176.28.54.184
@JosephWright ^^^^^^
 
@egreg Yes, I know :-)
 
Anonymous
1:15 PM
@UlrikeFischer You mean text width=...mm? That's my current best guess.
 
@PauloCereda What holiday? I'm at work.
@PauloCereda Well, if one really wants to call it “work”. ;-)
 
@egreg Today is Corpus Christi! :)
It is (still) a national holiday in Brazil.
 
@PauloCereda Unfortunately it has been moved to the next Sunday.
@PauloCereda Happy holiday!
 
@egreg Oh I see. Brazil still gives the day for us. :)
@egreg Thank you! :) Today my partner and I will try a different duo in mass: piano and bass (the big one from orchestra).
 
@PauloCereda Next Thursday we have a national holiday.
 
1:19 PM
@egreg ooh the republic day!
 
@PauloCereda And on the radio a piano is being demolished: Ivo Pogorelich is playing the sledgehammer concerto.
 
@egreg ooh :)
 
@yo' and @DavidCarlisle -- sure looks like a bug to me. since \shortintertext is defined in mathtools, not amsmath, i also tested \intertext and the same problem occurs. easy fix for \intertext, just add \ignorespaces; didn't try to fix mathtools (code is a bit more extensive, and it may need fixing in more than one place), but looks like adding \ignorespaces is the thing to do there too. strange that nobody noticed it earlier, at least no complaints for this.
 
@barbarabeeton 3 places in mathtools (@daleif dome it already at source)
 
1:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle and @daleif and @yo' -- i've put this on the amsmath list (and i'll be sending mail about that). but you've forgotten a possible problem at the other end (thanks, @yo', for using that format for the example); it's possible, though unusual, for a text to reach exactly to the right margin, at which point the final space would cause a new, empty. line to be started. so an \unskip after the argument would also be a good idea, and otherwise harmless.
 
@barbarabeeton shouldn't be needed, unless the user explicitly adds multiple skips (in which case you'd need more than one \unskip) the code does #1\par and \par always removes one skip from the end (typically a word space from the end of last line of the paragraph)
@barbarabeeton if it is added needs to be \ifhmode\unskip\fi or it would kill a \vspace at the end of the inserted text.
 
@DavidCarlisle -- okay, i'm going to test that anyway, skeptic that i am. i do find it unlikely that someone would intentionally put a \vspace at the end of an \intertext line, but authors are unpredictable.
 
1:55 PM
@barbarabeeton or a blank line with non zero parskip.
@barbarabeeton testing? I haven't even run @yo's test file above yet, I just eyeballed the code:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle The LuaTeX approach ;-)
 
@JosephWright I'm a quick learner
@JosephWright I don't think BV is convinced by my claim that all is well with latex's historic unintuitive page size defaults..
 
@DavidCarlisle No. Of course, his documents are all wrong if he's got A4 paper size and letter margins ...
 
@JosephWright now Norbert as well, you wouldn't like to say same in different words would you, seems I'm not getting through....
 
@yo' No, they aren't the same
 
Anonymous
2:06 PM
Is it (easily) possible to typeset something in Tex, for example the outputted text-string "This is a coconut"; and then, when a user would copy-paste that text-string from the .PDF into a text editor (plain text), he would paste "Explanation: This is a coconut".?
 
@VincentVerheyen accsupp package easy or not according to how you find it (never used it myself)
 
@DavidCarlisle Will do
 
yo'
@egreg Does it mean that the period at the end of a displayed equation in a theorem should really be \text{.} ? Call it crazy :)
 
@yo' I wouldn't care.
 
yo'
@egreg well, I care about the commas, so ...
(also, I cared in my thesis where the math and text fonts are completely different)
 
2:16 PM
@yo' You shouldn't. ;-)
 
yo'
@egreg but then you have like \text{otherwise,} in an equation, which looks strange as \text{otherwise},
 
@yo' If the math font is different from the text font (like Euler), you need to care, of course. Otherwise, there's not so big a difference anyway.
 
yo'
@egreg well, for the period it's negligible in a 10 or 12 pt font
 
@yo' Yes, I used cmr17 at 40pt
 
yo'
@egreg :)
ok. Submitting the final version :)
 
2:31 PM
@JosephWright thanks:-)
@JosephWright of course it doesn't help that geometry is broken with luatex presently (despite fact I was promised an update)
 
@DavidCarlisle Indeed
 
@DavidCarlisle But I wonder why the graphics driver for xetex and dvips doesn't set the paper size specials too. Seems a bit inconsequent.
 
@UlrikeFischer not sure it had them, or I knew about them when I did dvips.def (it was a long time ago, predates pdf mostly)
 
@DavidCarlisle \AtBeginDvi{\special{papersize=\the\paperwidth,\the\paperheight}}, according to geometry :-)
 
@JosephWright yes but did dvips have that in 1993? :-)
 
2:42 PM
@DavidCarlisle Good question to which I don't know the answer
 
@JosephWright I wonder if I should add it now......
 
@DavidCarlisle I was busy with my GCSEs
 
@JosephWright I have to work with children:(
 
@DavidCarlisle At least I learned some CP/M: looks like it might be useful for maintaining the US nuclear deterrent ;-)
 
@JosephWright Useful tool for defending the straights of Dover?
 
2:46 PM
@DavidCarlisle We may find out soon enough
 
@JosephWright then we can both set our local page config back to us letter and be done with these pesky DIN page sizes....
 
2:59 PM
@yo' -- punctuation in (ams)math is always upright. by definition.
it's also really desirable (by ams standards) that punctuation -- the most obvious detractors being parentheses and other text delimiters -- should be upright in theorems as well, and there was consideration of trying to put together a "theorem font" with italic letters and upright punctuation and numerals, but it turned out to be too complicated. look at old (metal type) math books for the traditional practice.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:07 PM
@JosephWright: The Krampus Meta question should be closed, in my point of view
 
is macro in Latex the same as what is called a function() in other programming languages? So things like \newcommand and \newenvironment are considered as "functions" in Latex, or is there another construct to make a "function" in Latex to call? I know I can use lua inside Latex and there I can have real function and call it from Latex. But I am asking about pure latex itself.
 
@Nasser Yes and no. In expl3 there's 'difference' between a 'function' and a 'variable'. In some sense a macro acts like a function, but it's an expansion language. But I leave this to the real experts like @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle and @egreg, @PauloCereda and other ones
 
5:23 PM
@ChristianHupfer I never used expl3. Does it allow making a function which I can call from Latex with any arguments, and it returns result, which is typeset in-line, just like newcommand? I find newcommand and newenvironment very limiting and fragile. For example, one can not use the argument #1 in the "end env" when using newenvironment, only in the "first env". I am looking for a way to make real industrial strength functions in Latex. Using lua inside Latex is too complicated.
 
@Nasser: No, not this way. Macros are expandeded or are unexpandable. You can nest expandable macros such that the outer macro processes the expansion -- this is what you mean with 'result', I assume?
 
@ChristianHupfer yes. That is what I meant with result. I find macro confusing in Latex. I am used to using real functions, as in Matlab. Hard to debug macros also. I guess macro in Latex is like a function in Matlab in a way. I just do not like using macros.
 
@Nasser Expansion is a computation in itself, so this is the result. :)
 
5:38 PM
@Nasser no, do you know C ?
 
@DavidCarlisle a little bit, yes.
 
@Nasser well macro in tex means same as macro in the C preprocessor. #define, #ifdef etc.
@Nasser tex isn't a compiler (despite the recent tendency to call it compilation) it's a macro expansion language.
 
@DavidCarlisle yes. but you also know how bad macros in C are considered. Just googling macros in C shows many articles saying how bad for programming macros are. They lead to many problems.
 
@Nasser well tough, tex was designed in 1980 (more or less) and just has macros. It doesn't have functions or strings or arrays or loops or gotos or anything else that some modern programming book says is a good thing to have.
 
6:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle :-)
 
6:21 PM
@Nasser Funny: I find Lua much harder to debug that TeX as I can't just \show or \tracingall definitions :-)
@Nasser It's quite possible to have access to #1, etc. at the end of an environment: you just need to save it somewhere. See xparse for a pre-built version of this.
@Nasser TeX macros are not functions, so 'evaluating' the argument before expansion is tricky. Again, see expl3 and the idea of f-type expansion, etc.
@DavidCarlisle Has strings :-) \string ...
 
@JosephWright hmm sequence of separate tokens of catcodes 12 or 10 doesn't equate to "string" in most other contexts;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Sounds like a string to me ;-)
 
@JosephWright you need to get out more
@JosephWright or an excellent article on \romannumeral expansion that dropped through my letterbox today?
 
@DavidCarlisle Sounds good: who might have written that ...
 
@JosephWright we don't have an l3build target to make individual ltnews (for the website) do we? Just make one by hand with a ltxdoc.cfg to use hyperref and a4 etc?
 
6:37 PM
@DavidCarlisle No specific target, no
0
Q: Barra de navegacion

Blanca MonroyDisculpen cuando inserto la sección de navegación no me aparece completa. Llega a una sección y ya no muestra las demás. \framelatex{ \begin{beamercolorbox}[wd=\paperwidth,ht=0.3\beamer@headheight]{Title bar} \usebeamerfont{section in head/foot}% \insertsectionnavigationhorizontal{2pt...

@DavidCarlisle ^^^ One for the master of all languages ;-)
 
@JosephWright I suppose most consistent thing would be to just have an alternative build.lua that puts all the individual files in tyoesetfiles and then use the doc target.
 
@DavidCarlisle Probably, yes
 
@JosephWright just saw that, I nearly posted a translation, but thought it wasn't really fair
 
 
2 hours later…
8:38 PM
@yo' vv
$ svn commit -m 'ignorespaces at start of \intertext' amsmath.dtx changes.txt README.txt
Sending        README.txt
Sending        amsmath.dtx
Sending        changes.txt
Transmitting file data ...done
Committing transaction...
Committed revision 1179.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:56 PM
@DavidCarlisle Thankfully you didn't commit an heresy of saying Spanish was my mother tongue. :)
 
yo'
10:07 PM
@DavidCarlisle Your commitment to amsmath is ... well, 1179th. Thanks :)
 
@Ulrike: quack! :)
 
@PauloCereda Don't you speak Spanish in Brazil? Really?
 
@egreg I will use the comfy chair. :)
 
@PauloCereda Español es mas importante que portugues :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer ¿Qué?
 
10:20 PM
@PauloCereda There are many wannabe savvy announcers in our TV that want to show off and pronounce names of Brazilians like they were Spanish. Think to José Altafini pronounced “hhhossè”.
 
@egreg Oh no!
 
@PauloCereda: Muchos patos son en la marmita ...
 
@PauloCereda They can't mispronounce Pelé, though. :)
 
@ChristianHupfer LOLOLOL
@egreg ooh. :)
@ChristianHupfer I believe estan could be better than son. :)
But I really don't know Spanish, I only fake words by adding some wacky pronunciation to the end of words in Portuguese. :)
 
@PauloCereda No, they are constantly in the pot ;-)
 
10:25 PM
@ChristianHupfer Out of curiosity, did you use Google Translate?
 
@PauloCereda: Patos asados me gusta :-P
@PauloCereda Only for marmita :D
 
@ChristianHupfer I will flag this as highly offensive. :)
@ChristianHupfer I was going to mention that! Marmita is more related to lunchboxes. :D
 
@PauloCereda Well, that's the final destination then :D
 
@ChristianHupfer Naughty German!
 
@PauloCereda It's my burden :-)
 
10:28 PM
@ChristianHupfer <3
 
@PauloCereda: By the way, Pelé is this famous chess player, isn't he? ;-)
 
I was trying to make my own command, only to find it is in the bookclass!
\documentclass[12pt]{book}%
\newcommand{\endTable}[0]
{
\end{longtable}
}
\begin{document}
test
\end{document}

Command \endTable already defined. }

How does one find out what `\endTable` do in book class? I had no idea the book class will export it own internal commands. Unless this is a command I can use? But what does it do? I googled it, and do not see how to learn about it.
 
@ChristianHupfer No, he's the rugby bloke. :)
 
@Nasser: \newcommand{\foo}{} will always define \endfoo -- this is by design and as such you can use \begin{foo}...\end{foo} (well, abuse rather ;-))
@PauloCereda Rugby? A, the mud version of American football :D
 
@PauloCereda hello duck.
 
10:34 PM
@ChristianHupfer wow! ok, so I can't use end to start the name of my command. Ok, another rule to remember.
 
@UlrikeFischer hi! <3
 
@Nasser Well, you can use \def\endfoo{} -- in fact many environments are actually defined being as \def\foo{} and \def\endfoo{}
 
I changed it

\newcommand{\eendTable}[0]
{
\end{longtable}
}
I just love Latex.
 
@Nasser \endTable ist not defined, but you can't define a new command starting with \end.
 
@ChristianHupfer No, that's not true.
@Nasser What's the purpose of defining \endTable?
 
10:37 PM
@egreg Which part is not true? The \begin...\end stuff?
 
@Nasser not with \newcommand, with \def\endTable it will work.
 
@ChristianHupfer That \newcommand{\foo} defines \endfoo
 
@egreg To save some typing. That is all. I defined

\newcommand{\addTable}[2]
{
\begin{longtable}[t]{|p{\nmaColumnWidth{#1}} | p{\nmaColumnWidth{#2}}|}\hline\endfirsthead
}

So I thought to be consistent, I should also make \endTable command.
 
@egreg Well, I should have written: Prohibits to define it -- that's what I meant.
 
@ChristianHupfer When you have \end{foo}, LaTeX does \csname endfoo\endcsname, which is equivalent to \relax if \endfoo is undefined.
@ChristianHupfer \newcommand{\endfoo} is disallowed even if \foo is not defined.
 
10:40 PM
@egreg Well, I already wrote prohibits to define it -- I should have written this right from the start, but I expressed it badly
 
@ChristianHupfer no the error is independant from a \foo-definition. \newcommand\endsupercalifragilisticexpialidocious would fail too.
 
@Nasser Consistency would mean doing \newenvironment{Table}[2]{\begin{longtable}...}{\end{longtable}} and using \begin{Table}...\end{Table}.
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes, I know -- it's not allowed to define macros being named \end... with \newcommand
 
@egreg I am scarred using \newenvironment. I had problems with it.
But will try it again with table to see if it works.
 
@Nasser No matter what you do, some things just don't work hidden in newenvironment, that is lstlisting, align and verb (and others).
 
10:54 PM
@egreg Ok, I tried it. it works with longtable, and it is looks better. Here it is

\newenvironment{tbl}[3]
{
  \begin{longtable}[t]{|#3{#1\textwidth-2\tabcolsep-.6pt}
                       |#3{#2\textwidth-2\tabcolsep-.6pt}|
                      }\hline\endfirsthead
}
{
 \end{longtable}\ignorespacesafterend
}
And call it as
\begin{tbl}{0.45}{0.55}{p}
..
\end{tbl}

Thanks for the suggestion.
saves me some typing.
 
@Nasser you misquoted the error message, missing out the part that applies here
! LaTeX Error: Command \endTable already defined.
               Or name \end... illegal, see p.192 of the manual.
@Nasser see the second line: you can't use \end... as explained on page 192 of the latex book
 
@DavidCarlisle I copied the error right in from of me?
 
@Nasser you should not forget % at ends of lines in those definitions.
@Nasser that's just a one line summary of the error message missing out the part that applies in this case. Click that log button to see the error.
 

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