TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2016-05-25 (page 1 of 2)

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Anonymous

6:24 AM

I'm wondering why

\titlecontents{section}[0em]{}{\thecontentslabel\quad\ul}{\ul}{\hfill\thecontentspage}

is incompatible with

\usepackage{hyperref}

For more context, cf. [User Bernard's answer](http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/311319/67761) in [Incompatibility of \setcounter{secnumdepth}{0} with \titlecontents{section}{\thecontentslabel\quad}{\underline}{}{\hfill\thecontentspage}](http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311314/).

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Perhaps one of you has some comment to tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311349/…

@TorbjørnT. Yes, I'll answer in a bit

6:59 AM

@JosephWright people don't like our website:(

@DavidCarlisle !

@DavidCarlisle Well, I for one don't think it's all that difficult to find the link that says "Contact" in the (only) menu on the site. It wouldn't take five minutes to read everything on the front page.

Anyways, wasn't there a new website in the works?

@TorbjørnT. it doesn't matter anyway as we hope to junk that whole site test version at latex3.github.io/latex-project.org but should be appearing at latex-project.org any time soon (which is I guess what Joseph was planning to answer)

@DavidCarlisle That's what I thought, yes.

@DavidCarlisle Nice. Contact link in the footer and all, he should be happy.

@TorbjørnT. delay (of a few weeks now) mostly around important issues like making a latex (not 3) version of Paulo's humming bird logo:-)

7:12 AM

@DavidCarlisle Right, that's what all the logo chatter has been about I guess.

@VincentVerheyen Do you really need underlining?

7:39 AM

@DavidCarlisle I wasn't aware that the team is a dozen people.

@Johannes_B Depends on how you count people

@JosephWright What do you mean? Some of them not active?

@Johannes_B Active in different ways :-)

@JosephWright Like doing template stuff? :-)

@VincentVerheyen hyperref patches \contentsline to add the anchor for the links and soul doesn't like this -- soul is quite fragile and I wouldn't recommend to use it in places where you have no real control over the content. You will imho have to revert the hyperref changes if you insist in using underlining.

7:54 AM

@Johannes_B there's never been more than 3 or 4 actively committing code (to the same repository) at any one time.

@DavidCarlisle That was more the figure i was thinking of.

8:16 AM

@DavidCarlisle Question got closed :-(

@DavidCarlisle Almost done with first pass on l3keyval speed up: I've gained about 2.5 times on the older version, though still about half as fast as keyval

@DavidCarlisle Looking at the test case I'm ultimately working on (from the options docs), I've dropped the l3keys version from 45 s to 30 s, though there is still work to do as the options one is 4 s! (I can't hope to get there as options doesn't worry about braces, babel, etc. in the way the L3 version does)

That's for 100k key settings ...

8:29 AM

@JosephWright I'm sure a factor of 2 to keyval is close enough. Sounds good! Although I doubt it would make this user happy: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311328/…

@JosephWright yes I saw once I got in. I left a comment anyway.

@JosephWright you have the power to re-open (but it's probably only marginally on topic...)

8:44 AM

I have to go, if anyone wants to jump in:

@Johannes_B How can you compile to it the example given? — Masi 6 mins ago

Anonymous

@egreg It's a matter of esthetics. I don't want to use a different colour to notify hyperlinks, and underlining and overlining is used in other graphical elements (yet in a different colour): it complements the other style elements, but is unique nevertheless; without adding extra new features such as boldface.

Anonymous

@egreg But of course, "really needing it" is a strong statement. It isn't necessary to prevent the world from turning, so it can go down on the priority scale.

8:59 AM

@JosephWright Heya! Time for a quick q on csquotes? I need to move the citation after a quote onto a newline. Eg force the citation to start on the next line and ble flushed right. Any idea how this can be done? I tried googling a bit, but alas.

@N3buchadnezzar What quote environment/command do you use?

Anonymous

I can't put a $\bullet$ inside a Section's title?

@TorbjørnT. Textquote and blockquote. I can show a picture of the current situation, and the desired output if you want?

@N3buchadnezzar A minimal example (code) is always nice.

Anonymous

Please disregard my previous chat question, regarding the "bullet". Works fine, apologies.

9:04 AM

user image

user image

@TorbjørnT. I will upload a MWE shortly. The first image is how it is atm, the last image show how i need the quotes to be =)

@TorbjørnT. Here is the MWE overleaf.com/5299572hznjbz#/16724573 Edit if you want / can =)

I found something that looks like a bug in LaTeX to me, see here: tex.stackexchange.com/q/19651/4736 -- I've been using LaTeX for more than a decade, but never stumbled accross this. You have to put the label in a figure below the caption, otherwise the reference will be wrong. This seems very strange to me, because I'm missing the link between label and caption? What do you think, is this a bug I should report to the LaTeX project?

@KeksDose This is entirely standard: the \label has to come after the \caption as the latter is the 'thing with a number'

52

Q: Why does an environment's label have to appear after the caption?

\documentclass{article} \usepackage{algorithm} \begin{document} \setcounter{section}{54} \section{A section with no label} \begin{algorithm} \label{myalg} \caption{An algorithm with the label `myalg'.} \end{algorithm} Reference to myalg: \ref{myalg}. \end{document} With this code, the referenc...

cross-referencing numbering captions algorithms

@N3buchadnezzar See section 8.7 Hooks for Quotations and Citations in the csquotes manual. (And my edit on Overleaf.)

@JosephWright The label refers to the environment figure, table, whatever. Why does LaTeX need a caption? Maybe that is standard, but isn't it nonsense?

@KeksDose No, it refers to the caption. The floats have no number.

9:16 AM

@JosephWright How long does it take and when does it take place?

@MojcaMiklavec Normally about 1h, on-and-off, though up to you: timing is your call

@TorbjørnT. Thanks I actually had that section up but did not quite understand it. Thanks again =)

@KeksDose Also note that you can have more than one \caption in a single figure/table environment.

@N3buchadnezzar No worries. I've fiddled with those things before, so I had an idea of what to do/where to look.

@TorbjørnT. Thank you for the link. Nice to know that other users as well think that this implementation wasn't a good idea, especially the maintainer of caption.

@KeksDose this is easily the most frequently asked of latex questions:-)

9:24 AM

@DavidCarlisle That or "why is my figure/table not where I put it?"

@TorbjørnT. Probably there was a reason to implement it this way. I loaded caption and put the label again before the caption. In this case -- with the caption package -- you get a warning about a non defined something. So even Axel Sommerfeld didn't find a way to get over this behavior of LaTeX.

@KeksDose not really, figure despite its name is more or less unrelated to figures or image inclusion it is just about moving a block of content around. That block may have zero or more numbered captioned figures inside it.

@KeksDose I can't really see that he says that he would try, or that this particular feature was a bad idea.

@KeksDose lots of people rely on this, anyone using any kind of sub figure system with separately reference-able units inside a single figure.

Ok, it's the caption that makes the picture. Well, same with modern art.

9:38 AM

@KeksDose no rather it is the caption that you reference or hyperlink to. Just as when you "refer to a section" you don't refer to the whole section but rather to its heading.

@DavidCarlisle I'm actually missing \begin{float} available in LaTeX :-)

Anonymous

If you use \includegraphics[angle=90,origin=c]{file} (e.g. inside \begin{figure}[H]), then you end up with a big whitespace below the image, as if it was not rotated (provided you started with a wide image). Any way to automatically -vspace{...} the difference?

@yo' Indeed

@JosephWright well, \newfloat FTW, if need be

@yo' \begin{@float}{figure} ... \end{@float} you don't even need \makeatletter to access it....

@VincentVerheyen you shouldn't get additional space (oh why use origin=c ?)

9:49 AM

@DavidCarlisle well, my point is I'd like \begin{@float}{relax} ... \end{@float} :-)

@yo' It needs to know which queue to put it on

@DavidCarlisle oh, right, the queues

@yo' you can have that as long as you define \ftype@relax

the thing is: I use it to put e.g. a figure and a table next to each other, each with its own caption

to b ea power of 2 that isn't 1 or 2

9:50 AM

@DavidCarlisle Hoping to hear your review of my checkin :-)

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle If I leave out origin=c, I can't compile.

@VincentVerheyen that's the thing about optional keys, you can always omit them

@DavidCarlisle Really? Couldn't one have a single queue and examine the type as a second step?

@JosephWright well, in the end it's the same, isn't it?

@JosephWright You could do all sorts of things but currently it needs to be set up in advance

Anonymous

9:52 AM

@DavidCarlisle I don't understand, it seems like I can't omit it, when trying to use angle=-90.

@DavidCarlisle well, you shall finish xor, so that one gets a full manual control over the float placement :-)

@yo' Possibly, but I do wonder about the fact that figure and table are misleading and perhaps a single float environment would be clearer

@VincentVerheyen there can't possibly be a bug in my code so you can omit it.

@yo' Team meeting in an hour: I'll remind everyone

@DavidCarlisle What, like the brace business

@JosephWright \begin{float}[type=figure, placement=t, columns=2]

9:53 AM

@JosephWright (possibly un-)documented features

@yo' Indeed

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Ok. I just found out you are right, but not in case you have an additional height specification in the argument. E.g. in [angle=-90, origin=c, height=9cm]. Then, you can't leave out origin=c.

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@VincentVerheyen that's division by zero error

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle The additional space is also because of the height specification. Let's imagine you would like the "wide" image (before rotation) to be 9 cm's wide, then how to specify that, if you want to rotate the image -90 degrees, but still retain the longest length to be 9cm's?

9:54 AM

@JosephWright and then of course, [name=bla] and then, somewhere, even in preamble: \placefloat{bla}[pagessincelastclearpage=3, startatcolumn=2, placement=b] (note b overwriting the previously specified t)

@VincentVerheyen if you rotate it so that its height is zero, then specify that it be scaled so that its height is 9cm the mathematics gets "difficult"

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Why would a rotation make the height 0?

@VincentVerheyen because the height is 0 and the depth is something if you rotate the "wrong" direction

@VincentVerheyen because you rotated it down so it's got no height but lots of depth

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle O really @yo', so then I am rotating in the z direction? I didn't intend to. ... ?

9:56 AM

@VincentVerheyen There's something like totalheight

@VincentVerheyen depth is "height below the baseline"

@VincentVerheyen no just rotating anti-clockwise (or counter-clockwise if you are American)

Anonymous

@yo' I feel like I have entered the universe for the first time ;).

@VincentVerheyen lol

Anonymous

So, any suggestions to fix my problem, which is mainly that there is extra height (white-space) being added below my image when rotating anti-clockwise?

@VincentVerheyen tex boxes do not treat x and y axis equally, they have height and depth, but only width, so that means that you have to take care of the meanings of those three lengths when rotating, which is well specified but not always intuitive.

@VincentVerheyen don't use origin, and use width= before rotating

Anonymous

9:59 AM

@DavidCarlisle Interesting, it sound like a joke at first ... Yea, not really intuitive.

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle How do I use width= "before" rotating please, that could fix the issue, but I don't know how?

@VincentVerheyen I had to specify something, given that tex boxes only have three units and the reference point has to be on the left edge, no one ever suggested a different specification

@VincentVerheyen just literally do that [width=.., angle=...

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Thanks a bunch. Works out great, I didn't realize the order mattered. ... But I'm glad it does matter.

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle What do you mean with "the reference point has to be on the left edge" please?

@VincentVerheyen tex boxes have a reference point, when you are in horizontal mode the reference points sit on the baseline and the next box is position based on the width of the last box. when you are in vertical mode the boxes sit one below the other, with the reference points one below the other and the offset being the depth of the last box and the height of the box being added (and possibly some glue) so for example you can arrange that a symbol like...

Anonymous

10:07 AM

@DavidCarlisle And what exactly is a box?

LegionMammal978

Is it okay for me to ask a small question here?

Anonymous

@LegionMammal978 It's ok for you and for me.

@LegionMammal978 As usual, don't ask if you can ask, just ask ;-)

@VincentVerheyen \sum is vertically centred by having its reference point half way up the left edge (height and depth more or less equal) but you can not do something similar for horizontal centering, there is no left and right width that you can specify to put the reference point in the centre

LegionMammal978

K, so say you have some centered text

Now, you only want the centering to apply to part of the text

10:08 AM

@VincentVerheyen everything in tex is based on a box and glue model, no time to summarise the entire tex book here:-)

LegionMammal978

So effectively, the rest of the text has width 0 (but is still visible)

Also, this is in mathmode

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle But why does there need to be differentiated between a height and a depth for vertical coordinates?

@LegionMammal978 Example?

@VincentVerheyen Because text is written on a baseline but some things go below it

LegionMammal978

 ------ u   ------ w
 A true     B true
 ------------------ ∧I
     A ∧ B true
     ---------- ∧E1
       A true

@VincentVerheyen because tex is optimised for typesetting european languages where characters have descenders below the baseline but a single offset width for the next character

LegionMammal978

10:10 AM

On the bottom, only the "fraction" is centered

The ∧E1 doesn't count for that

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Ok. Thanks for introducing me, as a newbie to these concepts, both @JosephWright and David. Perhaps one day I'll understand why "there is no left and right width that you can specify to put the reference point in the centre". I assume that the term "depth" could be changed to something like "below-baseline" or so?

@VincentVerheyen You can do such things, but they have to be constructed in the macro layer on top of the engine: see xcoffins

@KeksDose Axel didn't comment about the label before the caption but about if the label can go in the caption argument, or must be behind the argument.

@VincentVerheyen you could call it anything yes but tex calls it depth (the \dp, and \maxdepth primitives for example and the texbook and any tex tutorial)

@VincentVerheyen look where the blob is in the image in the bottom answer here, it is on the left edge so there is just "width" not ever left width+right width as there is height+depth vvvvvv

19

A: Confused with TeX terminology: height, depth, width

In TeX speak, every "box" -- think of a rectangle, except that the rectangle could have one or more of its "dimensions" set equal to zero -- has height, depth, and width. The width part has the obvious meaning, being measured along the horizontal axis. The height of a box is measured up from the ...

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle Ok, that picture depicts it clearly. Thanks. Confusing for 3D applications though, or confusing for a Z-index for 2-D "who's-on-top" arrangements. -- I know that for you guys, it's obvious since you have enough experience with the term.

10:20 AM

@VincentVerheyen most typesetting is 2d, Knuth didn't build in support for 3d printers in 1982.

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@DavidCarlisle: I want to buy iTeX (ding!)!

@VincentVerheyen tex (mostly) has no support for z index, if you want to overprint some text on an image you can't specify the text is higher you just have to arrange that you print the image first and then back up and print the text later in the file

@PauloCereda what have Stanford professors ever done for us?

3

@DavidCarlisle Can of course be done at the macro level :-)

@JosephWright details (turing complete languages can do lots of things:-)

@DavidCarlisle The aqueduct? :)

10:26 AM

@PauloCereda Roads?

@JosephWright Irrigation?

@VincentVerheyen But don't get the impression that the box always fits around the content. It is quite easy to manipulate the tex dimensions and to let the content stick out.

Anonymous

@UlrikeFischer I guess Tex really can think outside of the box then, can't it?

@JosephWright reading your comments.... (and bits of code:-)

@DavidCarlisle :-)

Anonymous

10:34 AM

Hmm. So I'm using

\section[something for in the table of contents]{something to appear as the section title throughout the document}, right? But, where I use "\label" and "\nameref" for that Section, I actually want a third argument to appear (or if that's impossible, then at least not the "

something for in the table of contents", but rather the "something to appear as the section title throughout the document`").

@VincentVerheyen change \@currentlabel.

Anonymous

@UlrikeFischer I'm not sure how to do that exactly, in a way that would suit my needs? Do you suggest that I pose a new question, rather than proceed through the chat?

Anonymous

@UlrikeFischer Can't I just add an "empty-shell" label somewhere near my Section? I guess that should be possible, with some kind of a command, right?

@VincentVerheyen I always prefer real question with good examples.

Anonymous

@UlrikeFischer How about just some kind of a command (such as \nameref{this content}) which refers/links to the contents of a \pseudo-label{this content}? Is that possible?

10:43 AM

@VincentVerheyen As I said: I prefer real questions.

Anonymous

10:59 AM

Actually, why do we call this "cross-referencing"? E.g. at sharelatex.com/learn/Cross_referencing_sections_and_equations ... Actually it's just "referencing", right? There is no referencing back to where you came from, e.g. when using hyperref, in the compiled document?

@JosephWright skype?

@DavidCarlisle Should be

@JosephWright have you started, I see no call in progress?

@DavidCarlisle No: it tends not to work if I start it, doesn't it

@JosephWright ah OK I'll start it then (and try not to disconect half way through this time)

11:25 AM

Is there any way to trick latex into showing the full name of an author when citing?

Using biblatex, apa and natbib if that matters.

Hehe figured it out! Just had to add {} around the name

Eureka

Anonymous

@UlrikeFischer I did it with \hyperref[]{} in the end.

12:02 PM

@DavidCarlisle So you get let off xor!

@JosephWright sort of unsurprising given the alice stuff I suspect, but it has a knock-on effect to general engine support.....

@DavidCarlisle In a way

@DavidCarlisle You were right about keyvals too: I'll knock up a Lua version :-)

@DavidCarlisle Depends on of course one what one really does ...

@JosephWright well that's rather the point, as soon as one engine gets special status in one area the temptation to optimise for that or make code only for that increases even in other areas of the kernel

@JosephWright yes sure "parse a lua table with lua" would be pretty instantaneous but you'd have to accept a lot of syntax decisions that might not be what you would have taken. Parse a l3keyval list with lua might still be faster than parsing it with tex of course, although possibly not, it all depends...

do we have a standard delete the toc and try again answer?

0

Q: Runaway argument at \begin{document}

I got this error, probably because I inserted a wrong table. Now I removed the table, but the error remains. I read something about removing the aux. file, but I don't even see this file. And there was something about typing a q in the command line, but i don't now where this command line is? Ru...

@DavidCarlisle Expect mail later

@DavidCarlisle Yes, something about 'issues with secondary files'

@JosephWright :-)

Christian Hupfer

12:18 PM

Good maen

@ebo Yes, \bibliography as well. natbib only provides more features.

Christian Hupfer

Apparently there's a user that downvotes some of my hyperref based answers strategically, giving no reason. This really sucks

@ChristianHupfer I'll take a look: systematic downvoting of individuals is not allowed

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright It happened not all this day -- but occured three times in the past two weeks at least, giving no reasons, all on hyperref answers

Anonymous

12:36 PM

So, I am using this \section[{\color{orange} Something.}]{Something else}, but in my PDF-viewer's table of contents (not the table of contents printed at \tableofcontents), this shows up as orange Something.. So, is there any way to kind of fine-tune what ends up in the PDF-viewer's table of contents?

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen: You mean the bookmark pane? That can't be coloured directly (without using bookmark package)

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer Yes, I think I mean the bookmark pane. I am not looking to colour it, I am rather trying to delete things such as "orange" from it.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen: Try \protect\color{orange} or a \texorpdfstring approach

@VincentVerheyen \texorpdfstring{In PDF}{In bookmark}.

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer You mean replace each instance of {\color{orange} which I would like to "protect" by the mentioned \protect...?

12:41 PM

@TorbjørnT. Thx, great to know!

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen Well, that or what @TorbjørnT. and I suggested with \texorpdfstring -- if you shoot yourself into the foot by not using markup don't complain about having to replace many things ;-)

@JosephWright: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311395/… and tex.stackexchange.com/questions/309743/… are the relevant posts (there was another one, I think, I've to search)

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer I didn't know where to shoot, but in my foot; because I need multiple colours in my first [argument] of \section. ;) Thanks a lot for the solutions to you and @TorbjørnT.

@ChristianHupfer I realise you are not happy, but the odd downvote happens and certainly spread out there's a low probably of being able to track down any pattern

@ChristianHupfer I think asking for a reason for a downvote is OK, but I'd be wary of going further

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright I did not expect that there's a pattern to be tracked (unless of that guy that downvoted 10 posts of mine in a minute about two years ago ;-))

@JosephWright Well, that's what I did, I have no means of going further

@ChristianHupfer I mean 'People can downvote without giving a reason: this is part of the site design'

Christian Hupfer

12:48 PM

@JosephWright I know :-(

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer I'll have to go for the protect I guess? I'll try to see if it works.The \texorpdfstring doesn't work, as I need 3 different things: I need to use the first optional argument [] of Section (and I need the second argument of Section too {}), which I can't when also wanting to use \texorpdfstring (which would give the 3rd different thing, if it would have worked).

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen Actually the \protect is a guess only (by me). I think the \texorpdfstring way should work always. (it's the better way)

@DavidCarlisle -- that's anti-sunwise.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen: The 2nd argument of \section does not enter the ToC or bookmarks if you use the 1st optional argument. (at least for the standard classes)

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer The \protect didn't work. Just tried.

Anonymous

12:54 PM

@ChristianHupfer I know it doesn't enter there, but I need 3 different things. I need a "First one" for the printed Table of Contents, then a "Second one" for the Section's title as printed at the beginning of the Section, and then a "Third one" apparently (because of the 'orange' problem) for the bookmarks.

@VincentVerheyen Seems to work fine:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{xcolor,hyperref}
\begin{document}
\tableofcontents

\section[\texorpdfstring{\color{orange}Something}{Something else}]{Something altogether different}
\end{document}

Christian Hupfer

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{xcolor}

\usepackage{hyperref}

\begin{document}
\tableofcontents
\section[\texorpdfstring{\color{orange} Something}{Something for the bookmarks}]{Something different}

\end{document}

@VincentVerheyen: Yes, the \protect\color is not working, as I said, it was a guess only. hyperref complains about that. So \texorpdfstring is the way to go

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer @TorbjørnT. Ok thanks, I will review. I myself tried using \section[first thing]{\texorpdfstring{second thing}{third thing}}, which is why; I guess; I made an error. I can see the structural difference (\texorpdfstring within first or second argument) with your codes.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen: Your way would be working if there's no [....] argument since the {...} argument would be used for ToC (and occasionally) for the bookmark too then

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer Ok, thanks mate.

Anonymous

1:05 PM

@ChristianHupfer So you prefer \texorpdfstring{\color{orange} Something}{...} over \texorpdfstring{{\color{orange} Something}}{...}?

Christian Hupfer

Where's @Alennano when we you need him? pronumirovat? Is that Russian?

@VincentVerheyen Because I was omitting the {...} around the \color stuff?

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer Yes.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen The \color information is used inside an group in \contentsline (effectively), so it does no harm then if it's not written explicitly with {...}

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer Ok thanks.

@ChristianHupfer and anyway people who put formatting into section arguments deserve no sympathy, so it wouldn't matter if that colour leaked out:-)

Christian Hupfer

1:12 PM

@VincentVerheyen But I agree: In general it's better using {\color ....} unless leaking is desired

@DavidCarlisle Nobody expects the ~~Spanish~~ Formatting Inquisition ;-)

@ChristianHupfer @VincentVerheyen \textcolor{red}{zzz} is safer than {\color{red}zzz} usually.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle I did not say that it would be unsafe. I usually use \textcolor only

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle But sometimes the former doesn't work, right? Well, maybe I'm just confused. I actually thought the second was the preferred way usually.

@VincentVerheyen no \color can affect spacing (especially if it is used at (or rather before) the start of a paragraph, which is likely to be the case here if each contents line is set as a paragraph internally)

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen \textcolor would really work for the bookmark (no orange there), but it can't filter ToC and bookmark content of course

Anonymous

1:17 PM

@ChristianHupfer That works out great, for my use case, with \textcolor. Easy fix.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen Yes, but as I wrote: ToC entry and bookmark entry are the same then!

Anonymous

@DavidCarlisle With regards to my previous reply to you, I didn't read carefully enough. I meant to say that I first used {...1 \color{orange}{...2} ...3} within a Section's title, which leaked the colour undesiredly into the ...3 -> Hence, I reverted to {\color{orange} ...2}, as a way of putting the curly brackets. I didn't read carefully enough, as your reply was about the difference between textcolor and color.

@VincentVerheyen What do you actually want to do by the way? Just color the text in the ToC?

Christian Hupfer

@TorbjørnT. It's a MASI - like mystery ;-)

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer What do you mean with the same? The "orange" \textcolor{orange}{...} doesn't appear in the bookmark, but it does appear (formatted of course) in the table of contents, so it works fine.

Christian Hupfer

1:21 PM

@VincentVerheyen The bookmark text and the ToC entry are the same, not the colour of course ;-)

Anonymous

@TorbjørnT. Colour parts of the text in the ToC, then another kind of text in the Section where it appears, and then a third kind in the bookmarks. But it seems like everything worked out now.

Anonymous

@ChristianHupfer I see what you mean now. Yes, of course. No need for the \texorpdfstring and thus no need to stare blind on counting brackets.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen Well, if you want a different bookmark text, you must use \texorpdfstring again ... or kick the automatic addition of bookmarks, use \bookmark etc. and then you can even use colours for the bookmarks ... a bunch of options :-P

@VincentVerheyen Ah, so not just have e.g. section titles in ToC orange then, actually different strings all three places, and not necessarily the entire title in color.

@egreg "Math mode should be only used for math formulas" well, who would have guessed! I see you moved a few % as well:-)

3

1:26 PM

@DavidCarlisle Apparently, not every LaTeX user is aware of this. ;-)

Anonymous

@TorbjørnT. Yes, that was 1 possibility. I am actually at peace with having the bookmarks with same text as the ToC entries now. But, yea, I use multiple colours and \newline's in the ToC.

Anonymous

Goodnight guys.

Christian Hupfer

@VincentVerheyen 'Goodnight' ;-) Oh, it's 15:30 o'clock here. I've to sleep now ;-)

@ChristianHupfer your clock is an hour out, you should fix it.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle I know, that Britons think every clock is set according to Big Ben time ;-)

1:39 PM

@ChristianHupfer quite so

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Sure ;-)

1:54 PM

@egreg Italian black hole? bbc.com/news/world-europe-36377407

Happy towel day!

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Fatty Towels? ;-)

@yo' Too many English tourists

@egreg lol

Fortunately it seems there's no injuries, so at least that

Christian Hupfer

2:15 PM

\hskip 5em Foo does nothing if it occurs at the end of typeset line, i.e. not in the source code, but if it happens to be in place when linebreaking happens?

@ChristianHupfer yes all discardable items are discarded at a line break (skips and penalties mostly)

@yo' I think I've been on that bank in 1984: my brother was doing his military service in the army's school of medicine, which is on the hill above the bank. Beyond the hill there's Palazzo Pitti (where the grand dukes of Tuscany used to live) with the “giardino di Boboli”.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle So Foo would appear on the next line, I assume?

@ChristianHupfer well yes that's what I assumed you meant by " happens to be in place when linebreaking happens"

@ChristianHupfer exactly same as the skip coming from an inter-word space, if no line break happens you get a horizontal space but if a linebreak does happen, you don't.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Alright. And if I would wrap a command around \somecmd{\hskip 5em Foo}? I assume, the behaviour depends on the outer command of course?

2:26 PM

@egreg oh grand ducks of Tuscany! @Paulo

@ChristianHupfer you are supposed to use \hspace*{5em} or \hspace{5em} of course (space being dropped or not depending on the *)

@ChristianHupfer \def\somecmd#1{hello} \somecmd{\hskip 5em Foo} would have a different behaviour, yes.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Hm, that's the point why I am asking. Either it is a bug or it's some boxing that occuring in the \uline command (ulem package) in this question: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311414/…

@egreg What's correct, please? u_0u_1u_2\dotsm ,\quad \text{where} or {u_0u_1u_2\dotsm},\quad \text{where}

@yo' Why the braces?

@egreg well, there's a lot of space between the dots and and comma -- is that desirable?

2:34 PM

@ChristianHupfer Nope. :)

@yo' ooh ducks. :)

@ChristianHupfer it's not clearly a bug

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Not clearly? A possible one?

@ChristianHupfer no, it's not a bug.

@yo' Compare with u_0u_1u_2\dotsm\text{, where}

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Hm, I assume that the \hspace{5em} leaves an empty 'box' then, which causes \uline to do nothing?

2:41 PM

@ChristianHupfer no it is a skip not a box, a box would not be discarded. I posted an answer.

Towel Day is celebrated every year on 25 May as a tribute to the author Douglas Adams by his fans. On this day, fans openly carry a towel with them, as described in Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, to demonstrate their appreciation for the books and the author. The commemoration was first held 25 May, 2001, two weeks after Adams' death on 11 May. == Origin == The original quotation that explained the importance of towels is found in Chapter 3 of Adams' work The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. A towel, it says, is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can...

@egreg looks optimal (modulo italics as it's in a theorem)

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Thanks. Upvoted

@egreg stack engine tick....

@DavidCarlisle My hairlines are better

2:44 PM

Is fixltx2e no longer required with TL 2015 and beyond?

@AlanMunn no, the only thing in the package is a warning message that it isn't required.

@DavidCarlisle Thanks. No wonder non-native English speakers have a hard time with English 'yes' and 'no'. For me, that sentence should have begun with a 'yes...'. :)

@AlanMunn I nearly added (or yes) after the no. But decided not to enter a language discussion with a linguist:-)

@DavidCarlisle Sadly, (as you've found out) it's unavoidable. :)

@AlanMunn well don't ask such negative questions in an international forum:-)

2:50 PM

@DavidCarlisle Ok, here's a positive one. But you're not gonna like it...

Someone just pointed out a missing command in my he-she package for gender neutral writing. There is no form for "That car is hers/his". So now I need a command name for the masculine form. The switching form will be \hishers and the feminine form can be hers but what should I call the masculine form? I can't use \his since that's already in use.

I'm inclined to use \hiss but since that's also a word, it looks odd.

@AlanMunn so what does \his make (I was going to suggest \hiss ) or do you have to have a masculine command as the feminine has hers rather than her even though it's his in both cases?

@DavidCarlisle \his will give you 'his' or 'her' depending on the current gender state.

Apr 29 '14 at 8:59, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda Never learn grammar from an Englishman.

@PauloCereda Truer words have apparently never been said.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Nerdy :-P

2:59 PM

@ChristianHupfer boo

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda It's good to be bad :D

@PauloCereda <3

@ChristianHupfer <3

@AlanMunn \hiss then or \quack if you don't like cats

@DavidCarlisle :) You must be mean to cats. I was thinking snakes.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Who doesn't like cats???? Cats are nice! (Alright, mice and birds do not like cats ;-))

3:09 PM

@ChristianHupfer Baby ducks I'm sure don't like cats.

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn That's among the category 'birds' then, I assume, biologically more precise: 'baby birds' ;-)

The Cat & The Ducklings (Animal Odd Couples)

@ChristianHupfer Yes, but I think that cats would quite tasty for many birds: raptors, for example.

@AlanMunn David has two cats. :)

@ChristianHupfer Only the internet can produce such marvels.

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn lalalala I can't hear you

@AlanMunn The Irish accent is funny ;-)

3:15 PM

@AlanMunn or a very big and mean ostrich. :)

@PauloCereda David's family have two cats

@DavidCarlisle That does not sound encouraging. :)

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle An important difference, I assume? @PauloCereda

@DavidCarlisle This explains the the 'hiss' association for sure.

@ChristianHupfer yes it means I can deny ownership if there is feeding or clearing up to be done

Christian Hupfer

3:21 PM

@DavidCarlisle clearing up?

@ChristianHupfer don't ask

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Oh my ... :D

3:38 PM

@PauloCereda Two cats happen to own a human called David.

@egreg well said. :)

@David: I forgot their names...

@PauloCereda thing 1 and thing 2 ?

3:53 PM

user image

@PauloCereda Dead and Alive? Or maybe that's somebody else's cats...

@DavidCarlisle No, you gave them better names. :)

Schrodinger The Cat

@SrodingerTheCat, in your thoughts.

Trapped in a box, Waiting for the quantic truth, I am F5.

2.5k tweets, 692 followers, following 150 users

@AlanMunn: Check this account, please. Tweets are important. :)

@PauloCereda you wouldn't joke about this bloke's cat

bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36372523

@PauloCereda Not a lot of activity in the past 6 years...This is clearly a Twitter account in need of a bot.

4:12 PM

@PauloCereda I logged in to TeX.SX from my Ubuntu machine, using Chrome and my Google account. Then I got a mail from Google telling me “Qualcuno ha appena provato ad accedere al tuo account Google <whatever>@gmail.com da un'app che non rispetta i più recenti standard di sicurezza.” :)

4:29 PM

@egreg oooh :)

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright I hope the information is correct? latex-community.org/forum/…

@Johannes_B Certainly I would avoid \documentstyle

@PauloCereda Will I use Chrome again? ;-)

@JosephWright Agreed.

@egreg Nope. :)

4:33 PM

@DavidCarlisle What's a simple case where xspace will fail?

@PauloCereda They are telling me it's dangerous.

@egreg Qualcuno ha chiamato egreg ha tentato di accedere al tuo account. Sicuramente non c'è da fidarsi.

4

@DavidCarlisle :) Although the first “ha” is wrong, remove it.

@egreg It's a double edged sword. :)

@AlanMunn any time you follow it by punctuation it doesn't know about (wacky german upside down quotation marks) or if the punctuation can't be seen \mbox{.} or \relax. (which isn't that uncommon as an expansion of complicated macros) or ....

@egreg you'd have to ask @JosephWright to do such an important task, I am not authorised.

4:38 PM

@DavidCarlisle If i recall correctly, the end sentence point has to come before the quote mark.

@Johannes_B in (some schools of thought) it depends on the context, whether you are quoting a sentence or have a sentence containing a quote, but xspace can get it wrong either way round.

@DavidCarlisle :-)

14

A: Acceptable use cases for xspace; When will it fail?

As I comment in the referenced answer, part of the problem with xspace is that it's not entirely trivial to answer this question. That is xpsace fails when it fails and it isn't so easy to give a useful summary of exactly when that is. xspace has to look ahead to decide whether to add a space or...

hello - i find myself putting \[3mm] at the end of equations a fair bit... is there any way to define this for a particular begin{equation} block or something?

@DavidCarlisle Well, it will remain to witness the fact you don't know Italian. :P

4:44 PM

most of what i'm finding seems to be how to do vspace around the environment

question tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311461/…

@JosephWright What do you think? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/29842759#29842759

@Johannes_B One for meta

@DavidCarlisle Thanks. I thought simple \emph and \textbf would screw it up, but apparently not.

@JosephWright Yes, i know. But do you think there would be any chance, or is this doomed to fail?

@Johannes_B I think it's worth asking :-)

4:58 PM

@JosephWright alright :-)

5:10 PM

@JosephWright meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/6646/… done

@egreg I don't need to know such details, I have a reliable source of information.

5:51 PM

@Johannes_B -- that's only if you worship the chicago manual. i prefer fowler.

@barbarabeeton My teachers back in school said that this is german orthography. I never understood though.

@Johannes_B -- i managed to break the editorial staff here of the habit when i had a quoted command sequence (to be typed at a system prompt) at the end of a sentence (intended for a user guide). i provided a "modified" sentence with such a command that i knew they would be used to using, and asked them to type in what was between the quotation marks. they conceded.

Will package updates sent to CTAN now only appear in TL 2016?

@AlanMunn Also MiKTeX

@AlanMunn TL'16 once updates start

@JosephWright In MikTeX they will appear more or less automatically, right?

@JosephWright Right. So if you have TL 2015, a new update to CTAN will be inaccessible until you update to TL 2016 when it appears? (Other than manually installing it)

6:02 PM

@AlanMunn Yes, happened once TL'15 went to 'frozen' status

@JosephWright Ok, just making sure. Thanks.

For anyone going to TUG in Toronto: eater.com/maps/best-toronto-restaurants

@AlanMunn V. unlikely

6:18 PM

@JosephWright It seems @barbarabeeton and @StefanKottwitz of the regulars here are going. And also Frank.

@AlanMunn Yes

@AlanMunn @DavidCarlisle is still not definitely not going ;-)

@JosephWright The registration is really quite expensive, although having just run a conference I understand that with the small number of participants it's not easy to make it cheaper. But for me I don't think I can justify the cost.

@AlanMunn I haz no moneyz. :(

@PauloCereda You need a rich benefactor who loves arara.

@AlanMunn ooh

6:40 PM

@AlanMunn or a tug bursary... (but had to ask before April)

@DavidCarlisle Or ducks could use their wings. :)

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