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8:00 PM
@yo' The TUG President is primus inter pares: no special powers but the 'lead' in say discussions. So if they are not available (for any reason) someone else can 'fill in'
@yo' UK-TUG is similar: if our Chair isn't present at some meeting, someone else from the committee simply does the chairing.
 
@JosephWright -- election only every two years, per the bylaws. obviously, there's a hole in the system, and how to plug it will be discussed forthwith. (who would ever have thought that this would be needed?)
 
yo'
@JosephWright so from the "legal" point of view, the president is really just a "special director"...
 
@barbarabeeton Ah, I'd missed two-years (so very much like UK-TUG)
@yo' Yes
@yo' At least that's my understanding
 
yo'
so it means that when one is voted in the board, they do two terms (4 years), right?
foreign languages are difficult, but a foreign legal language, that's a double trouble...
 
@JosephWright -- until the last election, paper ballots were the norm; doing that every year gets expensive, never mind time-consuming. president's term is two years, and term of ordinary board members, four years; it was considered prudent to keep a few people around who know what's going on.
 
8:10 PM
@yo': check if birds can be elected too, out of curiosity. :)
 
@yo' -- any legal language is a quagmire for the uninitiated.
 
@barbarabeeton We have a bit of an oddity there: other than the Chair, everyone has to be re-'elected' every year
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton but the point is, I pretty much got used to the Czech legal vocabulary and writing style...
 
(But then we don't actually have any provision for election other than for the Chair, so that's rather academic)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda The members of TUG will be such persons, natural or legal, ... -- I suppose you either need to pretend you're a person, or to convince some authority to give you the legal status of such.
 
8:18 PM
@JosephWright hi
 
@yo' This sounds a bit like the US election stuff and natural born citizen!
 
yo'
@JosephWright Does it mean that if you got into life by a Caesarean, you do not qualify? :D
 
@yo' You aren't in a Scottish play by any chance ...
 
yo'
@JosephWright now I lost you I think
(btw, just found one minor problem with the LTE internet: when I'm phoning with somebody, I can't google something)
 
@yo' Macbeth ('the Scottish play') has a prophesy that he can't be killed: 'none of woman born / Shall harm Macbeth', but the get-out is a Casearian
@WillRobertson Hope my changes to encguide make sense
 
yo'
8:28 PM
@JosephWright ah Macbeth is the Scottish play, I didn't know!
@WillRobertson Hello, have you got a second, please?
 
@yo' It's considered bad luck to say the name (certainly in the theatre)
 
yo'
@JosephWright ok. Things know to be strange
 
@barbarabeeton Thanks for your comment on the terminal question. Am I totally off base? Can I add "TeX was designed at a time when terminals had already become keyboards and screens"?
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton On an unrelated note, I'm afraid that Hermann Zapf shall be removed from the list of Honorary members :-(
 
@AndrewCashner -- i'm not sure that was true everywhere, but it certainly was at stanford. (at the ams, we were still working with punched cards and greenbar printouts. remember greenbar, or are you too young?)
 
yo'
8:35 PM
@barbarabeeton oh greenbars and dot matrix printers!
 
@yo' -- we thought about that, and decided that we would instead put a cross by his name to indicate that he's deceased.
 
@DavidCarlisle, @WillRobertson I'm wondering about adding some \Udelcode set up to unicode-math: any obvious issues?
@barbarabeeton Thought I'd seen that
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton ah makes sense
 
@yo' -- not dot-matrix; we had a band printer. that was the successor to a drum printer.
 
@barbarabeeton First screens in my Department around 1980, as far as I remember.
 
8:37 PM
@JosephWright doesn't have already?
 
@barbarabeeton too young: child of the 80s, so at least I remember the Commodore 64 and what PCs were like before Windows & the Internet.
 
@barbarabeeton But some staff already had some primitive terminals. My enrolling in 1978 was done with one of them.
 
@egreg -- we got the first screens here to support tex, on a decsystem 20. (also the first on-desk input devices.) it was decided initially that only one terminal was needed per department, and you know where they went -- onto the desks of the dept managers, so that no useful work got done. needless to say, that arrangement didn't last very long.
 
@DavidCarlisle No
@DavidCarlisle I just set \Umathcode (then messed up the 2e formats ...)
@AndrewCashner :-)
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton ahh
 
8:39 PM
@AndrewCashner At school we had CP/M (about 1993-ish)
 
well not top level but \cs_new:Nn \__um_set_delcode:nnn {
\Udelcode#2 = \csname sym#1\endcsname #3 \scan_stop:
}
 
@barbarabeeton I think they had a Vax in some recess of the computing service. In the first eighties some phosphor green screen appeared.
 
@JosephWright oh you mean setting from unicode data...
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, typo, sorry
 
yo'
@JosephWright at 1993 we got the first PC at home!
 
8:41 PM
@JosephWright exactly which characters stretch is a bit open and has caused some back and forth in the stix2 font testing
 
@AndrewCashner -- ah, poor child, what you've missed! the first computer i ever got my hands on had multiple cpu units with ferrite core, and enormous tape drives, each the size of a quite good sized refrigerator. and a raised floor (watch where you're walking when new cables are being strung.) and peripherals with plug boards. fun stuff!
 
@yo' 1987, for me. :P A Mac Plus, of course.
 
@yo' First one we had was a 286, about the same time. However, schools in the UK has CP/M machines for some time: we'd had them from mid-1980s and at my secondary school had a network (plus Winchester disk) we used for WordStar, ...
 
yo'
@egreg no, no macs in Central Europe back then :)
 
@barbarabeeton I do have a punch card that I use as my bookmark for Knuth's TAOCP. (I like to read it and pretend I might someday understand some of it. I can program a bit in MIXAL at least.)
 
8:42 PM
@yo' I know. Just second hand MS-DOS boxes.
 
@barbarabeeton That description sounds quite a bit like an organ installation! (I'm an organist.)
 
yo'
@egreg and Windows 3.11, installed from several 3.5"s
 
@AndrewCashner The sound of an organ is better.
 
@AndrewCashner -- there are similarities.
 
@yo' Win3 here (on DOS 4.01)
 
yo'
8:44 PM
oh the good old times when you could cool down your PC by placing a pot of water on the CPU....
 
@yo' Well, the first OzTeX was ten 3.5" diskettes
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner :)
 
@egreg -- no kidding! the card reader was so noisy that the dept manager called it the "20th century limited". (that is, or was, a crack passenger train that went, if i remember correctly, from chicago to los angeles.)
 
@barbarabeeton A musicologist recently presented a conference paper on "The Keyboard as a Digital Interface" (meaning musical keyboards and digits as in fingers), but I felt there was a missed opportunity to think about parallels with early computer interfaces.
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton well, you don't know the musical programs where you play the PC keyboard?
 
8:47 PM
@AndrewCashner -- well, maybe a missed opportunity, but i think that's a really marvelous title for a musicology paper.
 
Ehi! Andrew “Loopspace” Stacey reappeared to write an answer!
 
@egreg Oh my!
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton indeed!
 
And there's @Boris lurking! Ciao!
 
@yo' -- there were wags in the brown u computer center who wrote programs that would cause the band printer to "hum" little tunes. a totally not approved pastime.
 
8:48 PM
Andrew!!!!! You are back!!!!! We miss you!!!!!! Also, exclamation points!!!!! :)Paulo Cereda 16 secs ago
@egreg: ^^
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton oh the floppy symphony
 
@LoopSpace Hi: I see knots are still interesting you :-)
 
@barbarabeeton Yes, it's a good idea, I just wanted a bit more computer science in it, but really, how nerdy can you get in one paper. Here's the article that resulted: jams.ucpress.edu/content/ucpjams/68/1/151.full.pdf (sadly, not produced with LaTeX)
 
@PauloCereda This is a job for the mod-ping ;-)
 
8:49 PM
@JosephWright oooh <3
 
@yo' -- that too. (you left out the fact that on some mainframes, you could heat up a bowl of soup by placing it in just the right place by the heat exchanger.)
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton on a similar note, I remember my dad's story how the soldiers from the communications department were using the first WiFi antennas as "grills". Not knowing the dangers of course.
 
@PauloCereda What a warm welcome! Thank you! I was busy moving and adjusting to new demands as a professor. Still using LaTeX every day for syllabi, research, etc.
 
@AndrewCashner: of course, still time to play beautiful pieces! :)
 
@AndrewCashner -- thanks for link -- from the first couple of paragraphs, looks like an interesting read.
 
8:52 PM
@PauloCereda Don't you mean ^^21? (tex.stackexchange.com/questions/294461/…)
 
@egreg Ciao
 
ooh :)
@Boris Hi from a duck! :)
 
:)
 
@egreg Today was 18th-century opera day in my music history class. Students were a bit uncomfortable about the castrati.
 
@yo' -- and where do you think microwave ovens came from?
 
yo'
8:54 PM
@barbarabeeton I know
 
@AndrewCashner Who wouldn't? :)
 
yo'
btw, is this the Board meeting?
 
@egreg They weren't as uncomfortable as the castrati themselves :)
 
@yo' -- you mean here, now? no, i don't think so. it's much more interesting.
 
@AndrewCashner Many of them got rich and famous.
 
yo'
8:55 PM
@barbarabeeton lol, just that we've got an increasing number of board member present it seems...
 
@egreg And had harems of groupies. All's well that ends well?
 
@yo' yo' for president ;-)
 
yo'
@ChristianHupfer no, surely not.
 
@yo' Did I see you finished your PhD?
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner yes, that's right.
 
8:58 PM
@AndrewCashner Now he's exploring new paths to procrastination.
 
@yo' Congratulations!!
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner thank you
@egreg and to hating the article authors :)
 
@yo' In mathematics?
 
Any thoughts on if I can fit an 8x8 correlation table into a typical journal layout
 
@yo' Congratulations
 
yo'
8:59 PM
@AndrewCashner also
@StrongBad surely, I have seen larger tables
@Boris Thanks
 
@yo' Math plus something else?
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner yep, maths plus theoretical computer science
 
@yo' That's super impressive. What was your dissertation topic?
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner don't ask or you'll know it :)
 
I may look like I'm here but it's a mirage...
2
 
9:03 PM
@yo' I get that it's about numbers at least! :)
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner there's couple nice pictures there :)
 
@yo' Is that Palatino for text with Euler math?
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner indeed (also, I took the mathcal font from tgpagella rather than from euler, and maybe there're more modifications, I don't remember now)
 
@yo' It's beautifully typeset, though I have no idea what it's saying.
@PauloCereda How's your macro expander?
 
9:09 PM
@DavidCarlisle So 'not at the moment'?
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner thanks, I did my best. (In both the nice typesetting and the cryptic contents :) )
 
@JosephWright not sure, I'll see if I can match what is inferable from mathclass.txt with the stix2 data (@barbarabeeton is there a schedule for any public stix2 info?)
 
@yo' oh nice, palatino sans!
 
yo'
@WillRobertson yep, that is nice. It has some major issues, but it works
 
@DavidCarlisle -- re schedule, i'll have to ask stephen; he leaves just before 16:00, so no answers until tomorrow.
 
9:14 PM
@JosephWright encguide changes look fine.
 
@AndrewCashner Maybe the Czech abstract is more comprehensible
 
@yo' Do you have an "elevator pitch" version of your diss. that a music historian could understand?
 
yo'
@egreg the officer of the university said like "geometrické ah ok pohledy wow really that word? reprezentace ess or zet? komplexních now this is really complex..."
 
@yo' palatino sans has issues you mean? I don't disagree, I wish it were just a tad more formal.
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner I'm afraid not
 
9:16 PM
@yo' And I noticed the list of TeX.SX people: Barbara, Enrico, Paulo (for “quack”), David, Joseph. Good, correct order. :P
 
yo'
@WillRobertson well, Palatino itself knows to raise eyebrows with some people.
@egreg you know: ladies first, then old people, then closest friends, then alphabetically :p
 
:)
 
@yo' :P
 
yo'
@WillRobertson On a more serious note, I found only some very strange version of Palatino sans for free, and it was missing some characters that I needed (namely ů and č and had some other issues if I remember correctly)
 
@yo' :( I got through calculus at least, surely there's something I could understand.
 
yo'
9:20 PM
@AndrewCashner the notion of a tiling is quite natural :)
the nicest examples are on pages 25--27
Needless to say, the bookbinders did a pretty good job as well:
@Will @Andrew @Boris ^^
 
@yo' Very classy. I just printed mine and put it in a three-ring binder. Now I have to revise it for a book. I've already found so many mistakes, it's embarrassing!
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner there'll always be mistakes. You know what? The very last reference in my thesis is missing punctuation (a closing parenthesis). So horrible!
 
@yo' Maybe the rest of your life is the closing parenthesis...
3
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner the hardcover is quite standard, I just specified the texts and trusted the bookbinder. The papercover can be done in many ways, there are little restrictions, so I went with a bold yellow/blue mixture.
 
@barbarabeeton Have you tried all the part of the Louvre? Some of them are not crown at all
 
9:30 PM
@yo' number theory and discrete mathematics? Is that at least in the right subdomain?
 
@yo' Really nice :)
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner yep, NT and DM are part of the thesis. My work is really inter-disciplinary :)
@RomainPicot you can take it as an inspiration :)
 
@yo' so, interesting geomtrical ways you can arrange series of numbers produced through various transformations? am I getting closer?
 
@yo' I've two years to write my PhD and so sometimes to think about it ^^
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner closer :)
@AndrewCashner actually, the crucial geometrical notion is a tile
 
9:36 PM
@RomainPicot -- i can't say i've visited every part, it's so extensive! but i've been through quite a lot of it. it's quite amazing how differently the works are displayed in different sections; of course, the mona lisa pretty much stands alone, but in the galleries of 18th century (i think) painters, the walls are jammed so full of paintings that there's almost no room for identifying labels. maybe that's why i particularly like the d'orsay -- it's so spacious (and i like old train stations).
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton +1 for the last parenthesis :) One of the things I enjoyed in Paris is trains everywhere :)
 
hey guys! ive posted my Google Docs to LaTeX converter ad on TeX and Math: meta.math.stackexchange.com/questions/22419/…
 
@yo' Repeating geometric patterns produced algorighmically?
 
any ideas for other places to showcase it?
 
@barbarabeeton If I remember well, around 10% of every objects that the Louvre old are display ! If you love stone and minerals you also have the "galerie de minéralogie et de géologie" that reopened. And not crowned at all (at least the last time I went ;-) )
 
yo'
9:42 PM
@AndrewCashner well, if you look at the figure on page 25, you see that there are 4 distinct shapes of the "tiles". They are not "algorithmic" (well, we have algorithms for drawing them, but that's another thing), they are bond to specific map: each map in the family we study has its own tiles and its own tiling. Note that it is repetitive, but not periodic (like a nice symphony, you hear the main tune again and again, but it's always something new)
 
@JoeBob TUGboat ad section, tug.org/tugboat/advertising.html?
 
@Boris thanks for the suggestion, but my budget is currently $0 :(
SO has free adveritising
so ive asked the subsites of math and tex, but im not sure what other places to put it for free
 
@JoeBob OK, write an article for TUGboat describing how great it is ;-)
 
@JosephWright youre a genius
 
@JosephWright :)
 
9:46 PM
@yo' Okay, I'm getting there-- the map is a particular way of displaying the characteristics of the family?
 
ok can you all please check it out, and if you like it, please give 5 star reviews to the page? i can quote you in the article ill put on tugboat :)
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner the map gives a particular type of positional expansions (think binary expansions as in computers of decimal expansions as on your bill). To each such map, if the base (think 2 or 10) has a certain property, we associate a tiling. The properties of the tiling are closely related to the arithmetics on the expansions.
 
@yo' -- i like old mill buildings too. there are still a lot of them in this area, and many are being rehabbed for new uses, like dwelling lofts. and i do like trains. (i've still got my paris carte orange.) the trains are really neat in japan, and also good in most of europe. and if you like railroad history, here's the story of a u.s. museum i really like: borail.org//History-of-the-Museum.aspx .
 
i dont know anything about tugboat and their website is hard to look at, do you think showcasing auto-latex equations will be free and fit in the rest of their magazine?
 
yo'
@JoeBob "their" is technically "@barbarabeeton's" :)
 
9:50 PM
oh wow thats pretty cool :)
barbara, thoughts?
 
@RomainPicot -- oh, rocks and minerals -- i'll have to visit that next time i'm there. (my mother got rid of my rock collection while i was away at college, and i've never forgiven her.)
 
@barbarabeeton It's "carte Navigo" now :-) .
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton oh old mills, they have some interesting air, both the water mills and windmills. We've got a number of such buildings in our countryside, many are abandonded and you can sneak in (at your own risk of course)
 
I would like the community to refer to TUB as 'our' rather than 'their' magazine
 
@Boris Karl and @barbarabeeton's ;-)
 
9:51 PM
@Boris definitely :) i was not aware that people here were the ones who create tub
 
yo'
@RomainPicot never got that one myself :)
@JoeBob most people you speak with here are members of TUG :) some are even directors ...
 
@barbarabeeton It's the collection from the University Pierre and Marie Curie and I've eared that it's one of the biggest
 
@yo' interesting! could you guys please help me write an article on auto-latex equations to publish in some of the upcoming editions?
 
yo'
@JoeBob The future of TeX is discussed here literally every day
 
@yo' I've too when I can use it to see my parents, to go to the universtity and work :)
 
9:53 PM
@yo' lol
 
@RomainPicot -- does the "orange" version stilll work? (granted, the photo is very old.)
 
yo'
@JoeBob I'll try to find some similar articles in the public issues, you can inspire there
 
@yo' thanks for the help!
 
@JoeBob @yo' The future of TeX apparently depends heavily on cricket scores and duck gifs. :)
 
yo'
@AndrewCashner !
 
9:54 PM
@AndrewCashner lol :)
 
@barbarabeeton now it's not, you need the Navigo pass (could be week, month or year and perhaps for some day for tourist, I'll check)
 
yo'
@Joe In this issue there's couple articles that introduce a LaTeX package. Your topic is similar (introducing a LaTeX-related tool), so you can get an idea by reading the articles ;)
 
@yo' -- i was actually thinking of textile mills; this area was home to the birth of the american industrial revolution. here's an intro to the very first one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slater_Mill_Historic_Site
 
@yo' are you referring to the ctan article?
 
yo'
@JoeBob more the ones on pages 17--46
@barbarabeeton ah looks like old factories that feature water, cool!
 
9:58 PM
@yo' I'm not sure I'll be able to write a 4-page article like that, do you think someone could help me write up an article?
 
yo'
@JoeBob that's a tough thing. But it need not be 4 pages
 
@yo' I might understand some of that! Reminds me of a lecture I heard on the relationship of medieval music to art and architecture, where after showing a bunch of slides of cathedral-floor labyrinths and such, the professor concluded, "Which brings me back to my main point, which is, Patterns."
 
@yo' hmmm if i just converted the website text at autolatex.cf to LaTeX, would it be a valid article?
 
@barbarabeeton You have to take a week (around 25€ a week, 70€ a month) or use tickets (1.7€/use and one use when you use another bus/tram/metro/...)
 
yo'
@JoeBob I don't know, but I smell that such a quickly-cooked article wouldn't be the best thing.
@RomainPicot 1.41 € if you by them by 10. It's by no means the cheapest option for tourists, unless you plan to spend less than an hour at each site.
 
10:02 PM
@yo' And 2€ if you buy it in a bus (I think)
 
@yo' do you know if anyone on the team has time to write an article about it, that I can just review and edit rather than write from scratch?
 
yo'
@RomainPicot yep, sans correspondances
@JoeBob I doubt it. (I don't really want to put you down, but remember that all people you speak to here are volunteers)
 
@yo' I think you know more than me on the ticket price ^^
 
right
 
@JoeBob The "about" page already has a decent paragraph introduction. You would need to add some explanation of how it actually works.
 
yo'
10:04 PM
@RomainPicot possibly :) If you use navigo, then you need exactly zero knowledge on the ticket pricing, especially since dézonage is now unlimited
 
@RomainPicot -- well, the carte orange was merely a receptacle into which you slid your ticket; that was always separate. the important thing is that it carried a photo of the owner, so it was also local identification. (it was very handy when i was attending iso working group meetings in and around paris.) is the "navigo" similar, or just the ticket?
 
@AndrewCashner oh, so like the syntax needed and comparison to other editors and things? @yo' should I submit my article as a 2-3 paged, 2 coloumn latex document?
 
@yo' I use navigo since I'm 15 ;-)
 
@JoeBob I think TeX users would be interested in how the site works technically, and what it makes possible that wasn't possible before.
 
@JoeBob for tugboat? there is a specific class see tug.org/TUGboat/location.html
 
yo'
10:07 PM
@barbarabeeton navigo is a chip card (cc size) featuring the name and the photo
 
@AndrewCashner @DavidCarlisle ok sounds good, Ill try to make an article some time based on your suggestions :)
 
@JoeBob I might think of an outline like this: (1) the problem that made the website necessary, (2) what the website does to solve the problem with a bit of technical detail, and (3) how to use it and what you might use it for (not a full tutorial, just the basics).
 
@barbarabeeton @yo' and you have two kind of navigo: the classic which is free and with a picture, and the "navigo découverte" cost 5€ without picture
 
@AndrewCashner well the product is not a website, its an add-on, but your suggestion is very good nontheless :)
 
@barbarabeeton @yo' I think the free one is limited to people living/working in Paris area
 
yo'
10:09 PM
btw, I'm sorry but I better go to bed now. See you all some time!
 
@JoeBob "web application" then?
 
see you @yo'!
 
@yo' Take care. It was nice to chat!
 
@yo' good night :)
 
yo'
night! :)
 
10:10 PM
I think I am going too. Thanks and good bye!
 
@Boris Good night!
 
@Boris good night :)
 
yo'
@Boris bye!
 
good night @Boris!
 
It is raining very lightly in Los Angeles. How will we deal with this weather catastrophe??
 
10:15 PM
I go to bed too. See you all :)
 
I'm off too. Best wishes to you all!
 
see you all!
 
10:39 PM
@AndrewCashner The lexical macros are fully covered, now I am tackling the syntactic ones. :)
 
11:19 PM
@JosephWright ooh github issues on uktug faq, I'd almost forgotten about that:-)
 
11:32 PM
@PauloCereda \expandafter?
 
@egreg I'm sure any macro system worth calling the name also supports \romannumeral-`\X
 
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