TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2015-04-20

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12:55 AM

Quiet here. :(

@PauloCereda toooo quiet... :-)

7 hours later…

8:14 AM

The sound of a happy penguin echoing around in here

4

8:25 AM

@FaheemMitha Better late than never. ;-)

9:22 AM

@PauloCereda What happened for Corinthians-Palmeiras? :(

9:37 AM

Hi guys. I'm presenting the services provided by the company I'm working in as an intern and each service needs several paragraphs, so that, at the end we cannot properly define the paragraphs speaking of a specific service.
I assume the best way to separate group of paragraphs from one to another would be using \newline to force another line break.
I don't think using subsection would be nice, since this would typically adds yet another title level I don't think necessary. Any suggestion?

And using itemize block items for each service is really ugly.

9:54 AM

@egreg We won! :) It was so dramatic, it ended in a penalty shootout. :)

10:24 AM

@daleif hello again.

10:37 AM

@PauloCereda I was thinking to the homicides connected to the match. The win goes on a side, in this case.

@egreg Oh sorry, I just watched the match, I wasn't aware of the homicides. :( Sadly, we have a terrible problem with factions and it's nowhere near a happy ending. I think Italy has a similar background. :(

@PauloCereda Yeah, but not at that point. Happy for Palmeiras, though.

@egreg Thank God things are better in Italy (and also England after the hooligan madness). We don't have good politicians and a decent criminal code, so things will take a lot of time to get any better.

@wget there are very few questions where \newline is the right answer:-)

@wget \bigskip perhaps?

10:56 AM

@DavidCarlisle I made a test and bigskip and newline provides the same spacing. Why choose bigskip instead of newline? I made a copy paste and both seems not to make a new line in the pasted text.

@wget \bigskip is a vertical space command of size \bigskipamount (best to have a blank line or \par before it). \newline doesn't add vertical space it just encourages a linebreak at that point, so if it looks like vertical space you presumably have it at the end of a paragraph, where it will generate an underful hbox badness 10000 and the white space is not a vertical skip but rather a horizontal empty box which doesn't stretch and isn't discarded at a page break etc

@DavidCarlisle I'm going to make a few adjustments to l3build over the next few days, based on requests, etc. from GitHub

@DavidCarlisle Will probably see how TL'15 impacts on LuaTeX tests in detail

@DavidCarlisle Any idea what we are going to do about RTL and XeTeX?

@JosephWright: we missed you yesterday.

@PauloCereda Popped in briefly but was busy with family

@JosephWright Actually that was my idea for running the test suite the other day (I re-enabled all three engines) but got distracted by xetex failing so never went back to look at how luatex did...

11:04 AM

@DavidCarlisle Indeed

@DavidCarlisle My plan is to turn off pdfTeX/XeTeX for the tests and focus just on LuaTeX, first in the expl3 suite

@JosephWright in medium term, do what we always did, and what we do on etex, I guess. Longer term try to help move things to luatex model I guess.

@JosephWright yes I switched it to just run xetex:-)

@DavidCarlisle I mean 'How are we going to get the Omega model into XeTeX?'

@DavidCarlisle Thanks. Noted.
Yet a question which failed to be sent (power failure here at the company). I would like to have pie charts, but I don't know how to use tikz yet. Do you know a package which encapsulates all of this for me? I thought to pgf-pie, but I don't know if this is still maintained.

@JosephWright ah. I looked at the web change file stuff briefly (the tex--xet one in xetex and the luatex dir module) at the weekend, and decided that I can only just read it, I may have to go and read some documentation of the syntax somewhere:-)

@DavidCarlisle :-)

11:12 AM

@JosephWright My plan was to start with something simpler like adding \Uchar.....

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that and \(pdf)mdfivesum would be good (I have plans for MD5 sums!)

@DavidCarlisle Might be tricky, though, as that is only in LuaTeX and thus not web2c

@wget I have no idea about tikz at all... The option of just using some other software and \includegraphics is always available if you don't want to use tikz 9but I guess drawing a circle with coloured segments can't be that hard)

@JosephWright I assumed if I could work out how to add (any) expandable primitive into xetex by editing the .web or using a change file or whatever then I could probably write an implementation of Uchar from first principles,

@DavidCarlisle Yes: must be much the same as \char in any case ;-)

@JosephWright yes exactly. It's the change file syntax and declaring things expandable that I'm vague on.

11:44 AM

echoes from Meta Stack Exchange:

We have now got two profile pages: the "nice" one and the "useful" one. Which one people want as default? You've got one guess. /sarcasm — yo' 24 secs ago

Christian Hupfer

Good maen

12:03 PM

w3.org/TR/2015/WD-tabular-data-model-20150416

12:26 PM

@DavidCarlisle From memory the change syntax is not too bad

@DavidCarlisle ?

@JosephWright no that's OK, although it makes it a bit hard to find where things are defined, in the original or change.

@ChristianHupfer hi there

@JosephWright new spec just got announced for tabular data, might be interesting to see how far they get and what features they expect. I note there is quite a bit on date formats and numbers and directionality, nothing on units for example:-)

@DavidCarlisle Ah

12:50 PM

Can someone explain me this, please? (Of course only if you know it.) I'm ordering some business cards, and I was told that "we can't control the number of prints precisely, remember it's not an office printer" -- does it mean that in an offset printer, I can't set up how many copies of each original will be made?

Christian Hupfer

@yo': It's a quantum printer: You can only guess how much copies will made ;-)

3

@yo' Sounds like rubbish to me

@ChristianHupfer If it's a quantum printer, it may print and not print a document at the same time. :)

@ChristianHupfer Quantum printer? You can say which letter is printed next, but not where or you can tell the location, but not which letter is printed.

4

1:08 PM

@JosephWright to me as well. They use an offset printer, but still, they should be able to tell it how many papers to feed to the printer.

@PauloCereda you've got a twin?

@yo' probably it means you asked for more than 5 copies and they are not too good with numbers after they run out of fingers

@DavidCarlisle well, they argument that they "usually print thousands of them" and that it "depends on how it turns out in the particular print batch".

1:43 PM

@yo' hm?

RubberDuck, Ohio, USA

476 2 11

discussion feature-request winterbash-2014 beta-sites bounty bounty-dialog chat

@yo' Oh my!

1:56 PM

@DavidCarlisle: you wrote an answer with xpatch? Wow.

@PauloCereda mostly to say it doesn't work

@PauloCereda It's typical of @egreg not to build in a facility to look into the future and patch a command before it is defined.

@DavidCarlisle \usepackage{crystalball}

winnie the pooh heffalumps and woozles song

@egreg that would be a useful package for many questions here

\RequirePackage[2999/12/31]{latexrelease} :-)

2:03 PM

@DavidCarlisle It would start with \let~\catcode~`76~`

2:17 PM

I'm scared with my trip! :)

any texshop mac users? :

I just hit "Typeset" and out comes a PDF. How can I save something as UTF-8? — Love Learning 2 mins ago

@PauloCereda BEWARE THE WOOZLES

@DavidCarlisle Oh noooo!

They will steal my honey! :)

@PauloCereda They eat ducks

\begin{tabular}{p{218pt}p{32pt}p{192pt}}
\parbox{218pt}{\raggedright \includegraphics[width=136pt]{logo1}{\footnotesize }} & \parbox{32pt}{\raggedright } & \parbox{192pt}{\raggedright \includegraphics[width=120pt]{logo1}} \\
\parbox{218pt}{\raggedright } & \parbox{32pt}{\raggedright } & \parbox{192pt}{\raggedright
\textbf{Institut X Y Z}


{\textbf{Univ.-Prof. Dr.-Ing. habil.Max Mustermann }}

\textbf{\textbf{Musterweg 52-66}}

\textbf{\textbf{12566 Musterstadt}}

@DavidCarlisle Oh noooooooo

2:50 PM

@JosephWright Spam.

-2

A: Install Biber in MiKTeX on a 64-bit version of Windows

hifhjvgigugigigigigigivvjvugigigigihiihihi

3:01 PM

@Johannes_B Zapped

@JosephWright Thanks.

@PauloCereda Not me stackexchange.com/users/1640390/annonomus-penguin :-)

@Johannes_B ooh :)

@JosephWright think I tracked down missing dependencies (Xaw, mostly) so attempting a full tl2015 build again

3:25 PM

@DavidCarlisle Cool

facebook.com/themadmuseum/posts/770292206402429

2

@DavidCarlisle YAAAAY CONGRATS!

> All of the judges were very impressed by Matthew’s originality, artistic skills and inventiveness. He must have spent hours creating this 6-sided pop-up masterpiece and I think you will agree this card is pretty special.

probably shouldn't have posted that yet M won't have seen it, they just put that page up just now:-)

@DavidCarlisle ooh :)

@PauloCereda but as you know, artistic talent runs in the family

3:35 PM

@DavidCarlisle Of course! :) But I'm afraid to tell you lost your potential package maintainer, M will be a scientist. :)

@PauloCereda you can't read what it says on his shirt .....

@DavidCarlisle Trust...

I can't read the rest. :(

@PauloCereda .... me I'm a rocket scientist

@DavidCarlisle ooooooh awesome! :)

@yo': you will hate me, Tom:

[paulo@cambridge Música] $ du -h original/
3,2G	original/
[paulo@cambridge Música] $ du -h converted/
927M	converted/
[paulo@cambridge Música] $ ls -1 converted/ | wc -l
467

I reduced my MP3 files to 64k, so they can all fit in my 2GB iPod. :)

4:00 PM

@JosephWright got to the end and passed all tests!

@DavidCarlisle Great

@DavidCarlisle That with LuaTeX?

@JosephWright no not our tests, the configure/make self tests for tl build

@PauloCereda Now you can get some of these to play them back:

gizmodo.com/145869/4000-tube-speakers-for-your-ipod

@DavidCarlisle Ah

@DavidCarlisle I could go to Darmstadt with that money!

4:17 PM

10 Dinge, die Sie nicht tun sollten beim Gottesdienst - Kesslers Knigge

@ChristianHupfer, @Johannes_B: ^^ :)

@DavidCarlisle I'll fix the stuff.

@AlanMunn thanks:-)

4:53 PM

@PauloCereda :-)

@PauloCereda Not you? stackexchange.com/users/406181/hyper-anthony

@Johannes_B Nope. :)

@PauloCereda I am just looking aound community-building-beta

@Johannes_B :)

3

Q: Undefined control sequence in VTEX

I am using VTEX (visual Tex). When I run this program, it shows a error massage that is ! Undefined control sequence. \convertto #1#2->\strip@pt \dimexpr #2*65536/\number \dimexpr 1#1 ? But this program runs latex successfully. How can I solve this error...

No updates in >10 years!

@JosephWright Commercial software for the win</irony>

5:07 PM

@JosephWright This says that a 2004 update does etex:

freecode.com/projects/vtex

@DavidCarlisle Hmm

@DavidCarlisle I've commented

5:47 PM

! ...\hbox(6.44444+0.0)x345.0, glue set 339.9999fil
! ...\hbox(6.44444+0.0)x345.0, glue set 340.0fil

@JosephWright any chance of normalising rounding error in glue fill away? ^^^

6:08 PM

and this (which is perhaps easier)

........\OT1/cmr/m/n/12 a
........\OT1/cmr/m/n/12 n
........\discretionary replacing
.........\kern-0.32639
.........\OT1/cmr/m/n/12 -
........\OT1/cmr/m/n/12 u

@DavidCarlisle Will need to work on it: am doing some other l3build stuff as we speak

@DavidCarlisle We've already got some normalisation there but I was trying to avoid fiddling with rounding (LuaTeX is tricky in this regard)

@JosephWright is the luatex log trace format documented anywhere?

@DavidCarlisle The \discretionary business

@DavidCarlisle No

@DavidCarlisle Hans keeps telling me not to rely on anything being the same as pdfTeX: he's threatening to rewrite the entire code in this area

@JosephWright it's being normalised so the \discretionay goes but then the \kern 9which is same as etex) goes, leaving the ........\OT1/cmr/m/n/12 - line

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@DavidCarlisle I've so far now worked out what the best approach is here :-(

@DavidCarlisle Good ideas welcome

6:15 PM

@JosephWright get Chris to tell him that all changes in this area should be backwards compatible

@JosephWright see ^^

@DavidCarlisle Will think about it again: I thought I had a plan, but it failed

@DavidCarlisle I have a few l3build jobs outstanding: I was avoiding them until the TL pretest started, so am now free to get on with them

6:45 PM

@JosephWright currently 138 out of 796 so it would be good if we could normalise a few more away before duplicating the base tlg, will look later see if I can thing of anything, food first!

7:10 PM

@DavidCarlisle Could you let me know which one is giving that \discretionary business?

7:31 PM

@JosephWright Any ideas on this?

6

A: Proper dash to use for negative charge

[…] one professor I know who insists that it should be typeset with an endash. I disagree! A standard minus sign should be on the same height as the horizontal line of a plus sign as long as an equal sign The ndash is lower than the horizontal bar of the plus sign slightly longer th...

@Canageek En-dash and minus are logically distinct but often the same glyph

@Canageek RSC certainly used to use TeX for typesetting journals, and still do for books

@JosephWright Really? All the fonts I know have longer endash then hyphen-minus. (Otherwise I wouldn't be able to point out the difference in all my labmates powerpoints.)

@JosephWright This is for a powerpoint actually, and I want to convince a non-TeX user.

@Canageek Not hyphen! I was comparing LaTeX \mbox{--} (text mode) with \ensuremath{--}

@JosephWright Ah, no, this is hyphen-minus vs endash.

@Canageek what in the world is "hyphen-minus"?

7:36 PM

@yo' Unicode name for -

@JosephWright OMG!

@Canageek It's quite clear, then, really: - is a hyphen, it is not a minus

The hyphen-minus (-) is a character used in digital documents and computing to represent a hyphen (‐) or a minus sign (−). It is present in Unicode as code point U+002D - hyphen-minus; it is also in ASCII with the same value. The use of one character for hyphen and minus, and sometimes also for en dash, was a compromise made in the early days of fixed-width typewriters and computer displays. However, in proper typesetting and graphic design, there are distinct characters for hyphens, dashes, and the minus sign. Usage of the hyphen-minus nonetheless persists in many contexts, as it is well-known...

@Canageek Wiley mention the difference in their notes for submission (or revision or something)

@JosephWright Why is it a hyphen? It should be a minus as if it was a cation it would be +. Shouldn't minus be the opposite of plus?

7:38 PM

@Canageek Yes, that's exactly correct. The symbol - is only ever used as a hyphen, not for anything else.

@JosephWright So in powerpoint what do I use? Most fonts have hyphen-minus, endash and emdash

@JosephWright tlb0014

@Canageek Use an en-dash if there isn't a 'real' minus. As I've already noted, minus and en-dash are often the same glyph given different codepoints (I mean the real Unicode minus, not -)

@DavidCarlisle Thanks

@JosephWright Huh, I wonder

@Canageek any unicode font has a hyphen in the hyphen-minus slot, the slot is so called as legacy 7 and 8 bit fonts typically had either minus or hyphen in that slot depending on the intended use (eg tex fonts)

7:42 PM

@Canageek A classic example is ChemDraw: it can't access all of the symbols in a Unicode font, but you can get en-dash. So for writing in an anion in text I use that not -.

@Canageek in powerpoint can't you use U+2212 (MINUS SIGN)

@JosephWright That makes sense

@DavidCarlisle Can't you? Word certainly can

@JosephWright it was a question, I assume you can but I haven't used powerpoint in years

@DavidCarlisle IF the font has that. Palintino Linotype has it, but many don't.

7:46 PM

@Canageek use cambria math :-)

@DavidCarlisle Not my first choice for large sizes.

@DavidCarlisle Tend not to use PP, but certainly use Word and it can

@JosephWright You can. I just measured it by overlaying them and found in Palintino Linotype is has minus, superscript minus, subscript minus, AND enddash. Also they are all slightly different length.

8:03 PM

@Canageek Quite possibly true

@JosephWright Also: Grrrr, keyboard swaste symbols on # and don't have minus. Grrr.

@Canageek you're the unlucky 1 % who know what's a dash, a minus and a hyphen

2

@yo' - ‒ – ― ⸺ ⸻ ﹘ −

@DavidCarlisle short whatever, longer whatever, again, long whatever, box, box, box, not as long whatever :)

~~‒ - – ― ⸺ ⸻ ﹘ −~~

8:17 PM

@yo' This sounds like a dude I once heard calling Luigi "Green Mario". :)

@PauloCereda who what?

@yo' From Super Mario Bros, the videogame.

@PauloCereda that's not the 80s/90s game, right?

@yo' It's still going on. :)

@PauloCereda what? the old game? bestoldgames.net/eng/old-games/mario.php ?

8:25 PM

@yo' Might be old, but constantly ported and resold. (NES, SNES, Wii, WiiU, DS....)

@Canageek and spoiled, usually.

@yo' Do they change much? I thought a few of those were emulator + ROM

@Canageek I dunno, I've got DosBox and I'm happy :)

@yo' The DOS version is one of the worst! It isn't even an offical port!

@Canageek A little bit. It's been fun. :)

8:42 PM

@ChristianHupfer I can take a hint (+1:-)

@JosephWright luatex has diffs all over: an empty \hbox node (rather than nothing) for the base in $^a$ for example:(

Christian Hupfer

8:59 PM

@DavidCarlisle: It wasn't meant as a hint ... just a statement (without joke or irony). But thanks anyway!

@ChristianHupfer facebook.com/groups/170883319628439/permalink/927736003943163/…{%22tn%22%3A%22R‌0%22}

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B: Oh, nice.... and thanks for the pgfplots mail... could not test so far

0

Q: Confusion with showframe when using bindingoffset and scrreprt

I tried to define a bindingoffset in my onesided scrreprt document and wanted to check the layout with the showframe package, but it isn't working as expected. Here is a MWE: \documentclass{scrreprt} \usepackage[a4paper]{geometry} \usepackage{showframe} \geometry{bindingoffset=1cm} \usepackage...

margins geometry

As it seems, there was a fault in eso-pic.

@ChristianHupfer :-)

@ChristianHupfer Do you really want to join the LaTeX facebook group? I have seen questions there, i didn't know they could be asked. Once you are in, you cannot get out. Or in other words: RUN YOU FOOL!

4

9:25 PM

@JosephWright thought I'd try that github thing

@DavidCarlisle :-)

9:41 PM

@JosephWright I get more diffs now:-)

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B: Got out of that place (Eric Burdon is singing :-P)

@DavidCarlisle Yes: I'm working on it (may not get done before bed!)

@ChristianHupfer Request zurückgezogen?

@JosephWright no problem, just flicking over the diffs to see what comes up, not looked at them at all yet but so far only seen things that are essentially log format differences, not seen anything that looks like a real difference.

Someone should make a zip file of "How to start using LaTeX" Link to the TeXLive download page, link to the Wikibook, link to TeXStudio, Link to Detexify, and some PDF beginner guides.

Christian Hupfer

9:53 PM

@Johannes_B: Yes... I thought it's a suggestion by you ... don't do such posts :-(((((

@DavidCarlisle Quite, just more normalisation

@JosephWright some seem easier than others, notably the csname it uses for fonts if there is more than one. There was some discussion of that a while back but it still seems to take a different choice

@DavidCarlisle Yes

Christian Hupfer

10:13 PM

@Johannes_B: Now we should think about getting you out of that Facebook Group of Hell ;-)

Damned rep cap ... sob

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