@percusse lol. I'm happy that I got into a group of people interested in Sage. I don't say the project is perfect (it is not). But I see many benefits of it.

@tohecz I'm also fine with Python. If I can ever switch to v3 I'd be happier.

@percusse and you cannot?

@tohecz Too many dependencies on legacy code.

@percusse in py3 or in your projects?

Many actively supported libraries are in Py2.7. There is little pressure to transfer the code to Py3. But it's getting there.

I had to write a few mini-toolboxes for myself but it's not my profession and I usually follow the functionality because I don't understand the OOP.

@percusse ah I see

Especially those class-method business seems like an overkill but I guess there is a reason for

class blabla(self):
    pass

well, that's something you dislike about python: the weak barward compatibility

@percusse what's wrong with pass?

why is it there in the first place?

@DavidCarlisle: Although you meant it as a joke, it's perhaps some truth in it...I am little bit tired

@tohecz If it is going to be empty why would you even define it?

@percusse because you can't have an empty block in python

Then I found this presentation and suddenly it made a lot of sense, hang on while I grab it

@percusse because you can dynamically add methods to it later

@tohecz Argue with that guy. He argues otherwise

@percusse well, he's not a mathematician. I would (hopefully) code a different way if I were a programmer

@tohecz Well he is a working programmer though

@percusse yep I know. But in maths, everything is either an object or a function

@tohecz If you worship to the set theory god

@percusse well, there're to ways how to code math: the Haskell way and the Python way

but I'm happy that everything which can be treated as a vector space has a method .dimension(), even if its code is def dimension(self): return 1

@tohecz I'm not sure about that anymore. I think we need programmers who understands math. Not the other way around.

@percusse and we need someone who pays them, and patient mathematicians willing to spend months and months explaining non-compact C^infty_0 manifolds to a programmer.

@ChristianHupfer yes sometimes you need to give it a rest for a while (or a decade in my case:-) then come back, and answer the same questions to new people and seem like an expert:-)

@tohecz or Fortran works here...

@DavidCarlisle you don't code math in there. You code numerical mathematics there (and small bits of combinatorics exceptionally)

I will write along these lines as soon as I get home. :)

@PauloCereda ok, travel safe! :)

@tohecz well yes but don't tell my colleagues it's not math:-) (even though I really did representation theory over finite fields really, there's not much of that in the library:-)

@tohecz but then same is true mostly of matlab

@DavidCarlisle sorry: s/math/all the &/

@DavidCarlisle but that's not what matlab convinces people it is.

@DavidCarlisle: I dropped out of university a decade ago, confined myself to LaTeX as a user, and sometimes I feel getting lost in the new developments.

@tohecz Likewise what a garbage collection is to mathematicians.

@percusse Show us how it's done then :D

@tohecz there's a clue in the name

@percusse yep. Well, you're actually right that you need programmers that understand math, they just can't really do the implementation, they should design the system.

@1010011010 Sorry I'm willingly accepting defeat out of ignorance. Some brave souls will probably figure it out but I probably won't see it happening in my life time.

@ChristianHupfer I was online a few (a lot) minutes ago, but i am talking to a friend.

@tohecz I just obtained the best FFT toolbox from our software department by just explaining them step by step what it should do and they optimized the hell out of it. Note that we are talking about FFT which is already optimized. So if you stop constructing sentences like Let f:\mathbb{C}\to\mathbb{C} and actually describe the process, they are way smarter in making intelligent code that I would do with my full training in math.

@percusse but that's because you first thought them what memory leak is, in the first place

@Johannes_B: ??? Confused....

@tohecz You should do some embedded code design. You can't believe how sloppy we code. They are true craftsmen when it comes to constrained resource environment.

So it is really not that trivial. They know the machine we don't.

So they should be in charge not me.

@percusse well, I come from a CS department, the geeks one floor down have one of the most powerful antivirus programs in the world ;)

I describe the functionality not the code itself. They implement in the weirdest ways but turns out to be more efficient than what I might have thought.

@ChristianHupfer i said i'll be back in twenty minutes, but it took me some more time.

Hey, this si soooo good!

@Johannes_B... Ah, ok... I took it for I'll be off for today ;-)

@ChristianHupfer @cgnieder How to deal with smurfy users?

@Johannes_B smurfy users? you smurf them

@ChristianHupfer No, i am plugged in; the local students club...

@Johannes_B what's a smurfy user?

@ChristianHupfer you know what happended ;-)

@tohecz :)

@cgnieder 'nuff said :D

@cgnieder Those resistent to take any advice.

@Johannes_B: I am not smurfy ...

That golatex thread again?

@Johannes_B not much you can do... give up eventually?

@ChristianHupfer not the one... All of them ;-)

@cgnieder yes, giving up seems reasonable ;-)

@Johannes_B: Weltschmerz ... hm... ;-)

@Johannes_B the only thing you can do is give advice. If people take it or not is their choice. If they don't want to, well... shrugging is the healthiest response then IMHO :)

@cgnieder Today i wanted to join the group of annoyed helpers.

@cgnieder @ChristianHupfer But, i still have the freedom to ignore.

Mhhhh, ignore.

TeX users of the world.... Johannes will ignore ;-)

@Johannes_B: :-P

@ChristianHupfer :-D

@PauloCereda: Still hungry?

@Johannes_B: I think, that solution is quite nice. It will work for book.cls chapters anyway, and that was the question by the OP (who never comes back, most likely :-( )

It's late here ... have a nice time