TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:00 AM

and what I really hate is that no matter they're church songs, you have to sort out the copyrights before publishing these (since it's derived works)

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz I will be happy to look at anything you send. :)

tohecz

@AndrewCashner ok, but this one is without a recording (since I haven't managed to make one without typos yet): tohe.wz.cz/www/evang/Sv37_Cest_dej_140811.pdf

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Agreed! I don't necessarily think all music should be free, BUT I think in church music, the music functions as a tool much the same way software does. Everybody needs to modify it to fit their circumstances, make copies for the choir, transpose keys, etc. If we had open source licenses and a more user friendly version of lilypond a la LaTeX with templates, this would be much easier.

tohecz

@AndrewCashner however, I've spoken to the author of some of the songs I arranged (including the 2nd one I sent you, Sv37) after one his concert and he told me: "Are you crazy? All my music should be spread and played since I made it for the God to like it! Sure you HAVE TO publish it!" I love that guy even more since then :)

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Great. So you got a verbal CC-BY license from him!

tohecz

12:05 AM

@AndrewCashner I've got a written one, too, actually, in a mail

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz This one is bluesy

tohecz

but now I arranged a song by a really good musician who has a band and stuff, so I'm in the phase of collecting courage to ask him for a permission to publish it

@AndrewCashner well, the song is usually played quite fast and sharp, so it's more like rock than blues :) (whence all the 6ths)

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz The E natural/Esharp blue notes, minor sevenths, etc. are what I meant. If I meant this for others to play here in US I would probably notate it in 4/4 or 2/2 (just more bar lines, amateur keyboardists here get nervous otherwise). I like the feel a lot.

@tohecz The music director I work with speaks Czech; do you mind if I share these?

tohecz

@AndrewCashner I love the song, and it's one of those that are tough to play on a guitar

@AndrewCashner well, the 2nd one has not been published yet, but you can send them to him for sure. (There is a reason why I timestamp all my sheets)

the problem is that this one would use a good preludium, and I haven't got the time to make it. (I've got the idea, though, and there'll be two of them: a long one and a short one)

@AndrewCashner can I just ask you: you've tried to play it?

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Yes, I actually have the computer desk on one side and the piano on the other, I just swivel back and forth. The room is very cramped but it's fun for me.

@tohecz I mean in front and behind.

tohecz

12:15 AM

@AndrewCashner that sounds familiar :)

I have two chairs, but it's like 80 cm from one to the other one

what fingering do you use in bar 3 for the 2nd chord in R.H.?

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz It got this way after I gave up my office to my baby daughter. Which means I can't play all that much at home, but it's worth it obviously.

tohecz

@AndrewCashner you've got a string piano or an electronic one?

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz bottom to top: 1-1 2 3 4 5 . You could put a little bracket next to the bottom two notes as a hint but it would probably take three pages of Scheme code.

@tohecz A five foot Baldwin grand from 1920. It's for sale (reasons above) if you're interested ;)

tohecz

@AndrewCashner well, it's only 5 notes, so I take as that you play 11235 ;)

@AndrewCashner I don't really like this hints if they're not really necessary

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Yes that's what I meant.

@tohecz I don't think it's needed. That is one thing about Lilypond--some of the things that are hard to do, you don't really need to do after you think about it.

tohecz

12:18 AM

@AndrewCashner yep, exactly

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn There was a grammar question but then I had to step out as things turned to music (or Greek or something, not sure:-)

tohecz

it misses some accents written down, namely notes 3,4,7,8 in L.H. bar 5

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz I really like the last two beats of bar four, where you have the blue note E natural against the other blue note D natural, and both resolve down stepwise to the C# - E

tohecz

and ad 2/2 or 4/4 measure: it's orginally in 4/4 halved, but it's impossible to read it with all the 16ths. So I doubled the notes to make it easier to follow.

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz That was a good choice. Personally I would keep all the note values as you have them, but write 2/2 as the meter and insert bar lines every four quarters.

tohecz

12:24 AM

@AndrewCashner well, yes, it would make sense. I may consider it still, that's one change in the code

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz +1 more for lilypond

tohecz

what I really hate is how difficult it is to write down syncopations.

@AndrewCashner Well, one last example and I gotta go: PDF: tohe.wz.cz/www/evang/Sv207_Pokuseni_sv_Antonina_140809.pdf MP3: tohe.wz.cz/www/evang/Sv207_Pokuseni_sv_Antonina_140809.mp3

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Oh that's the other thing. I like the way you write them, without a lot of ties, but amateurs I know prefer to be able to see where every beat is. So bar 13 would be 4 4 4 4 4 8 8( 4.) 8(

tohecz

@AndrewCashner yes, and I'll go mad in the LH. No way. I mean, if there's was one or two of them, I'd write them out (because they would be unexpected), but in a piece full of them, you have to get used to them.

@tohecz ^^ this one is a melancholic / depressive song @And

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Oh I was playing it in a jazzy tempo, not knowing the words.

tohecz

12:33 AM

@AndrewCashner it's actually quite fast, but the feeling should be like jumping off a bridge :D

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Okay that makes perfect sense actually. I really like this one. The intro is interesting, the Refrain part sounds a bit like an American spiritual but the verse sounds distinctively Czech to me. We just performed some Dvorak songs at my church two weeks ago, psalm settings.

tohecz

@AndrewCashner lol

well, the song is contrasting: the refrain is a lot different from the verses

the verses are like if you read the most pessimistic newspaper in the world, and the refrain is like a nighmare you get from it when you try to sleep afterwards

@AndrewCashner and it's cool that you play Dvorak at the church. We don't really :(

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz that's hilarious. (If you take out the A in the last chord left hand of bar 13 then you avoid parallel fifths and it sounds a bit more fluid with the left hand voices moving into the B chord.)

tohecz

@AndrewCashner but then it doesn't sound Czech enough :P /bad joke really

I think that actually in one version it was <c g'> <d fis> <dis fis>

oh I see now that the chord names are missing in this version!

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz There are times for parallel fifths but I like to avoid them most of the time, not to follow a rule but because there is usually a more elegant solution. Don't know what the LaTeX analogue is, maybe \bf or using \def when you don't need to, too crude and breaks things. I much prefer the version you just stated---no doublings.

tohecz

12:41 AM

@AndrewCashner you really prefer the version without the tonal note of B in bass?

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz I like it. It's striking and fits with your description of this section as not being totally grounded in reality. That said if I was playing this I would probably automatically add a <b2, b2> on beat 4 just to cue the next section. (If it was for congregation). Kind of a delayed arrival.

tohecz

@AndrewCashner well, I play it with a cresendo on the tenor voice (b a b a)

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Also it's a nice counterbalance to the previous phrase which ended on D natural. Forget what I said about adding the octave Bs. It's unnecessary. This is a cool piece.

tohecz

@AndrewCashner well, that is the nice cool guy's piece whom I spoke about before with the copyright

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz I have to go or I will be crushed by impending deadlines. Let's do this more, not necessarily in chat if we're bothering @DavidCarlisle and taking away from the more Tex-related conversation on beer

tohecz

12:49 AM

@AndrewCashner don't worry, music is better than cricket ;) @Dav @Pau

and thanks for the suggestions!

Andrew Cashner

@tohecz Like I said, it is nice not to be just making stuff up like I usually do on here.

tohecz

@AndrewCashner lol

Sean Allred

1:51 AM

@cfr So much hate… XD

cfr

2:46 AM

@SeanAllred Really? I quite like OS X. I may not have used it in an altogether standard fashion, but I'm a refugee primarily because of (1) economic considerations and (b) Apple's attitude to free software. Not because of OS X. But Apple do have a tendency to decide that something is a 'feature' despite the rest of the world considering it a 'bug', and their responses to bug reports leave an enormous amount to be desired.

(I'm assuming the comment referred to OS X. If it was Windows, you'd be right although I try to be especially careful what I say about Windows for precisely that reason.)

(If it was something else, I have no idea...)

But I do detest brussel sprouts quite passionately.

Sean Allred

@cfr Brussel sprouts are fantastic – I don't know what you're talking about (really though – I love them :)) And I can understand staying away from it for all of those reasons. Apple has gotten less and less friendly to its developers – interestingly, inversely correlated to how many they have working on their platform…

They have also unfortunately acted as you say as well – touting bugs as features (spaces with multiple monitors, anyone?) – but I'm starting to see that across the board :( it's unsettling

cfr

3:23 AM

@SeanAllred My advisor objected to an example I used on the grounds that brussel sprouts were acceptable when pickled. But eventually I proved that the person referenced in the example agreed with me and the use of brussel sprouts made it into my dissertation unmodified ;).

I think it is a great shame about Apple. OS X was really exciting when I started using it. (Even if it did take me literally years to compile a working version of GIMP.) But it started to feel restrictive - I didn't like the moves to curtail users freedom, or there response to conflicts between e.g. the GPL and App Store policies. And, well, GNU/Linux is not a bad place to be an asylum seeker!

Sean Allred

@cfr :) I've been thinking about installing Arch side-by-side with OSX for quite some time. I'm just a little skiddish about it – I've never dual-booted before (at least, not from a single physical disk)

cfr

'their' not 'there'... I was disgusted when they started charging for development tools. (Not much but it was the idea which I objected to. I had felt that was a real difference.)

Sean Allred

Exactly

We are taking our time to make your platform better – why charge us for it?? sheesh.

cfr

I have dual booted from a single disk on a Mac but not with Arch. Debian.

Actually, that was my first install of GNU/Linux. I guess you have used it a bit since you are considering Arch. (I have Arch on my laptop now.)

Especially since the heart of the development tools are GPL GNU stuff anyway. (Compilers etc.) I think they could have done a lot more to work with the free software community and I think they should have given that OS X is built on their work!

Sean Allred

You said it best – it's a real shame.

I've used Linux a bit – I work on a RHEL box at work and I've done a lot of development on Raspberry Pis. It'll be an adventure :)

Nick

4:12 AM

@SeanAllred Raspberry Pies... sounds delicious. Can I have some?

Sean Allred

@Nick mine, all mine! :)

Nick

@SeanAllred How expensive is the cheapest one?

Sean Allred

About fifteen bucks, last I checked. IIRC, that's around ten euro

Nick

@SeanAllred and what's the coolest thing that you've done with it?

Sean Allred

@Nick I didn't choose the name XD twitter.com/hydroFishAqua82

The other great project used an arduino – it was an automated catapult

Worst design ever. (Really bad and really pompous, self-important group partner.)

Nick

4:20 AM

@SeanAllred Your plants have a robot butler? ... Wow, this is so not 1980 anymore.

Sean Allred

@Nick ;)

Nick

@SeanAllred Cool. Hopefully you've launched some birds at some pigs, if you catch my drift.

Sean Allred

@Nick I have indeed, in my day

Nick

@SeanAllred Bad designers who say their work is masterpiece... they're everywhere.

Sean Allred

?

Nick

4:24 AM

@SeanAllred So, for what class did you make the catapult for?

Sean Allred

@Nick Small-scale computing

The closest thing my uni had to computer engineering / electrical engineering / electronics

and it was a one-time, experimental course offered by request XD

good night, all :)

Nick

Well, that sounds like a once in a lifetime opportunity.

@SeanAllred Night Night. Don't let the Arduinos bite.

Dang, I just made another error I don't know how to resolve.

I'm trying to make a quote here and I wanted the first letter to be capitalized in a different font.

when I use $\mathcal T$, it compiles all all right but what's the problem with $\mathfrak T$?

or can I change the font for just one letter in a more standard way.

Adam Liter

4:42 AM

@Nick Have you loaded amsfonts?

Nick

6:52 AM

@AdamLiter ah, no. Sorry. Thanks for telling me.

Johannes_B

7:55 AM

@Nick Make sure to use a blank lline to indicate a new paragraph.

@Nick article classes have extra abstract environments.

Nick

8:20 AM

@Johannes_B Is this because I'm using things like \\[0.5cm] ?

Johannes_B

@Nick Use backticks ` at the beginning and end of words to mark them as code. It's the same on the main page.

`\\`

@Nick Unless you absolutely know why you are using a \newline with a space, and what it does internally, don't use it.

David Carlisle

@Nick don't:-)

Johannes_B

59

Q: When to use \par and when \\

What is the difference between \par and \\ and when should I use \par instead of \\?

David Carlisle

@Nick it should be \mathcal{T} with braces but also they're math fonts not really designed for initials (although obviously you can sort of get away with it a bit)

Nick

8:47 AM

@Johannes_B So, I should use \newline instead of `\ \`and I should always leave a line before beginning a new paragraph?

Johannes_B

If you want to start a new paragraph, you should simply use a blank line.

See, a new paragraph, because there is a new line above. No need for anything else. If you want to have a vertical space between the paragraphs, tell us your document class.

@Nick ^ ^ ^^^

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