Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya

I've been working with SE sites, big and small, for a while. Yet, I still think that users don't want to help build a community, they want to use it when it's finished.

ashes999

I love how most of my questions get no votes because, presumably, not many people have a clue what I'm asking about :)

yeah. That's true too.

but it never finishes. It lives forever.

Dynamic

That's why I made that statement before, "I can't wait for the pro-temp mods".

ashes999

no need to wait...we can (and are) rallying each other in chat already

"close as dupe please"

etc.

"review edit please"

Dynamic

8:06 PM

True.

But when we get our mods, there will be a sense of "Oh, they know what they're doing, we should follow them", instead of "OH, he thinks he's better than everyone else and is not letting our community flourish".

But, it's actually vice-versa

ashes999

have you ever seen mod wars on SO?

"closed" "reopened" "closed" "+3" "-3" "+5" ...

Dynamic

@ashes999 But can you really compare SO to a small Beta site.

They get thousands of questions on a normal basis.

ashes999

@Dynamic sure you can. We'll have the same problems, sooner or later. Perhaps sooner (more groups of Islam here), perhaps later (needs volume of users)

Dynamic

And they have like 10+ mods

ashes999

yeah

Dynamic

8:10 PM

@ashes999 Another reason we need the mods ASAP in Public Beta is going to be the flood of racist questions that I see coming.

ashes999

very true.

feel free to liberally flag.

Dynamic

I guarantee someone will ask "Do Muslims like Uzi's or ak47's?"

ashes999

hahaha

"10 votes, closed as not constructive"

Dynamic

@ashes999 I will, but it won't get caught as fast as with a mod.

ashes999

"comments: they like both"

Dynamic

8:11 PM

@ashes999 LOL. That's probably what will happen too.

Gigili

@ashes999 Where?

Salaam.

ashes999

wa'alikum as-salaam

@Gigili hypothetically speaking

Dynamic

Wa alaikum as-salam

ashes999

(unless I'm misunderstanding the "where")

Gigili

Ah, I see.

I guess some users are voting very randomly.

goldPseudo

8:14 PM

i take solace in the fact that the top rated answers by vote count are all well written good questions.

Gigili

As I voted to close some questions! (how dare you), they take revenge.

evil grin

ashes999

it's not random; it's trolling and vengence.

it'll work with 1-2 people teaming up, tops; then the mass majority votes either for or against, and the issue is done

Dynamic

@goldPseudo Great question here. I was wondering the same thing.

4

Q: What is the source of this hadith regarding angels and the language of the Qur'an?

This post makes allusion to a particular hadith, and I recall having read something similar elsewhere. However, I have no clue what the actual source is, or if it is even a hadith of the prophet at all. The meaning is, in effect, as follows: In whatever language the Qur'an is read, the ange...

reference-request

goldPseudo

so even if the weak questions keep getting asked, we know the system still works as intended

ashes999

But the private beta may suffer "death by weak questions"

I've seen other SE sites shut down because of a "lack of quality questions"

goldPseudo

8:27 PM

a lot of the 'weak questions' tend to be poorly written, rather than an actually bad question. somewhat to be expected, since we have a lot of non native English speakers here.

and the quality of the average question seems to be increasing at a pretty good rate compared to day one.

mostly just a matter of everyone getting used to how we roll here.

ashes999

Agreed.

I haven't DVed nearly as many answers as I used to.

I remember, I actually hit the voting cap on day one -- "you voted enough for today, come back in 7 hours"

I'm sure I made some troll enemies too. But I hope I did my part to curb the site from lower-quality questions and answers.

Still, I'm still seeing a disturbing lack of "expert" level questions.

Al Ummat

Asalamu wa alaikum

ashes999

wa'alikum as-salaam @AlUmmat

goldPseudo

wa alaykum assalaam

Gigili

@ashes999 Haha, now you admitted ...

wa alaykum salaam

ashes999

8:35 PM

@Gigili admitted what? I always comment when I DV about what I need to see before I remove my -1

"-1, cite sources"

"-1, very pooly formatted"

"-1, doesn't answer the question"

check my history if you think otherwise.

goldPseudo

if it's just poor formatting, i'll suggest an edit raher than DV

Gigili

@ashes999 Oh, I thought you said you've been trolling. Sorry!

ashes999

I don't mind editing for formatting. I DO mind editing huge paragraphs of text that have no breaks in them and wander all over the place.

@Gigili I am not amused.

goldPseudo

i've gotten rather used to fixing bad grammar and formatting on the other site.

ashes999

@goldPseudo I prefer a bottom-up solution: people learn to format properly instead of bombarding low-quality answers.

goldPseudo

8:39 PM

and figuring out exactly what they're trying to ask with broken english.

i tend towards the front page theory myself. people are more likely to post at the quality of the posts they actually see when they load the site.

Gigili

@ashes999 I'm not trying to make you laugh, I misunderstood your message.

goldPseudo

so by improving the legibility of the front page posts, subsequent visitors will put more effort into their own to match.

Hopefully.

I hope

God willing.

8:48 PM

Ameen.

@Gigili so you think I'm trolling?

Gigili

@ashes999 I misunderstood you, as I said.

ashes999

@Gigili yes, I know that you misunderstood. So, having said that you misunderstood, do you think I'm trolling, now that you understand that you misunderstood? :)

Gigili

I need time to parse that.

Dynamic

@ashes999 I don't think you are trolling, but I do know that I'm extremely confused at the moment :-)

From a Programmers perspective, stealing from @Gigili, I need a moment to parse that :P

Al Ummat

@ashes999 we will continue this in chat

Okay, so I think this clearly implies that faraaid have more reward. If you disagree, no worries; that was what my comment was about. — ashes999 4 mins ago

ashes999

8:53 PM

@Dynamic this site can best be described at times, visually: icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/…;

@AlUmmat fire away

Dynamic

@ashes999 LOL

Al Ummat

@ashes999 All acts of worship is rewarded 10 up to 700 times and Allah can reward more, some may be rewarded more at times than others, like on Ramadan Acts of worship in Ramadan is rewarded alot of times

Gigili

@ashes999 No, why would I think so? I thought you were saying that you also took revenge on your enemies, but you somehow repeated your previous line in other words.

ashes999

@AlUmmat I think the core issue we're differing is: whether faraaid or sunnaat entail more reward

@Gigili I have enemies? So it's true!

Gigili

Umm, only one point remains. If we are enemies or not, which is quite a haha kind of point.

@ashes999 I do have, not sure about you.

ashes999

8:56 PM

@Gigili trolls are not the same as enemies, random DVs won't hurt you in the long run

Gigili

Hire a private detective, maybe.

Al Ummat

@ashes999 it depends, would you like to give an order to someone and him disobey it or obey it?

ashes999

@Gigili I think we're all here to make Islam.SE succeed in the best way, so, how can we be enemies?

@AlUmmat I'm not sure I see the relevance of your question

Gigili

@ashes999 Enemy as in someone who has some slightly unimportant problems with you, not someone who you would murder!

ashes999

@Gigili murder, for SE? That seems pretty, uh, crazy.

Dynamic

8:57 PM

@Gigili If the problems are unimportant, why would you be enemies?

ashes999

@AlUmmat that hadith I quoted seems to imply that faraaid give you more reward than sunnah. I'm sure I've heard about this somewhere, but I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong about that.

Dynamic

a person who feels hatred for, fosters harmful designs against, or engages in antagonistic activities against another; an adversary or opponent.

That is an enemy ^^

@ashes999 Can I interrupt? What is faarid?

Gigili

@ashes999 You take words too seriously. I mean it in an ironic way.

ashes999

@Dynamic faraaid is the plural of the same root as "fard", meaning the actions that are obligatory

Al Ummat

@ashes999 ok, I would say they would be the same unless Allah wants to reward more, for Fardh it owuld be rewarded because you are doing as He says and you can keep doing it until He loves you, I would say following atleast some of the sunnah is fardh because Allah says in the Quran to follow Muhammad, and He also says that Muahmmad is the best example/role model for us so we would be rewarded for fulfilling this Wallah A'laam

ashes999

8:59 PM

@Dynamic another synonym is "wajibaat", which coincidentally also means "exams" in Arabic language

Gigili

@ashes999 Wow, I thought it was "afraad".

ashes999

@Gigili your irony is severely limited by internet text-only chat :/

Dynamic

@ashes999 Ahhh... Yes I know what fard is. Thanks for the explanation.

ashes999

@Gigili maybe. I expect you to know better, I'm not Arab by any stretch

Gigili

@ashes999 Neither am I.

ashes999

9:00 PM

Arab as in, fluent Arabic language speaker, not the ethnicity

@Gigili I thought you said you spoke Arabic.

Al Ummat

@ashes999 do you understand?

Gigili

@ashes999 Not fluently.

ashes999

@AlUmmat nope, I don't understand, let me re-read

@AlUmmat okay, so my issue is that your answer says that sunnah actions "entail more reward" than fard actions

@AlUmmat since we both don't have proofs either way, let's just agree that it should be excluded?

Al Ummat

@ashes999 what should be excluded

ashes999

@AlUmmat can you send me the link to the question/answer? I can't find it

Al Ummat

9:09 PM

ok

6

Q: Reading of Quran in a language other than Arabic

Is it necessary to read the Quran in Arabic? I have learnt from elders and also seen many videos stating that understanding the meaning of the quran is more important than just reading it. As i dont understand Arabic i would like to read the Quran in a language that i understand like English. So ...

quran language translation reciting

ashes999

Thanks

So your answer specifically states, right at the bottom

"Most mustahab acts have greater benefit/reward (thawab) than mandatory (wajib) activities."

This is the point which I am contending in the comments and chat; are you 100% sure about this? It seems like we both have a hunch about this, but no clear answer.

Therefore, I am recommending removing that statement, which may be correct or incorrect.

That's all...

Al Ummat

@ashes999 oh I see, I checked but I couldn't find it, I will remove it

ashes999

Okay. I am deleting my comments.

Al Ummat

mine too

Dynamic

9:24 PM

@AlUmmat @ashes999 Once we go into Public Beta, that would make a great question...

ashes999

@AlUmmat if I may ask, are you a brother or a sister?

yeah for sure, write it down and keep it in a safe place

I think the answer will be "Allah knows best" -- look at the description of sawm, "the reward is with Me and I will reward it"

Al Ummat

@Dynamic what?

@ashes999 i am a brother

:)

ashes999

:|

Dynamic

@AlUmmat Which gets more rewards, fard or sunnah activities?

ashes999

:| !!!!

sorry bro, my bad @AlUmmat

Dynamic

9:27 PM

@ashes999 Why the ":| !!!!"?

Al Ummat

@ashes999 There is realy no way to know online except by asking so what is :| !!!!! for

Dynamic

1

Q: How to clean carpet from urine stains?

I have a nephew younger than two-year-old and a grandfather older than seventyfive. It sometimes happens that they can't hold their bladder and dirty the carpet. It is not possible to roll the carpet and wash in the washing machine. How can I clean the carpet? Is wiping with a sponge enough? What...

fiqh urine cleanliness

Needs close votes:

ashes999

@AlUmmat I'm very surprised. Mah bad.

@Dynamic what's wrong with asking fiqh questions on Islam.SE?

Gigili

I see it as a totally valid question for the site.

Dynamic

@ashes999 Well actually, I didn't notice the tag. But read the question. It's basically asking how to clean pee.

Gigili

9:29 PM

Perhaps much better than "what/who is God?".

ashes999

@Dynamic so? Apart from being tragically basic (ask shaykh google?!), it's fine from my perspective.

Al Ummat

@Dynamic I do not think it needs closing, I think it just need editeing, it kind of sounds like Banu Isreal asking about the cow

Dynamic

It mentions nothing about fiqh besides the tag.

ashes999

I won't upvote, but I sure won't close-vote either.

@AlUmmat when you have kids ... if you don't already ... you will see the relevance :P

I'm tempted to +1 it now just to show solidarity...

Dynamic

@ashes999 I'm a minor. No kids.

Al Ummat

9:30 PM

:)

ashes999

InshaAllah one day @Dynamic

Gigili

@ashes999 Oh? How would you Google that?

ashes999

May Allah bless you with a righteous wife and progeny (ameen)

@Gigili let me see...

@Gigili I googled for "Islam clean urine how" (no quotes)

result #1: fatwa from Islam-QA titled "What should he do if he gets urine on his clothes?"

definitely a good start.

time to go home, we'll argue more inshaAllah on monday folks :)

as-salaamu 'alikum wa rahmatullah

Dynamic

Wa alaikum assalam

Gigili

@ashes999 Oh, well. Not a good start definitely. Since the point is, it's impossible to put it in wash machine.

Bye!

ashes999

9:32 PM

@Gigili knowing what to do first "you have to wash it" is a good start.

Al Ummat

wa alaikum salaam

ashes999

Step two is "how do I do that to a carpet the size of my doorway"

although IslamQA is a good reference, it probably gives it away later in the answer.

Gigili

I wouldn't call it tragically basic then.

Al Ummat

You clean the spot

as good as you can

ashes999

I would.

Al Ummat

9:33 PM

3 times

Gigili

Already two steps of Googling for "a good start" only.

ashes999

you upvote, I no-vote.

Difference of opinion :)

@Gigili most SO questions can't be answered by several google queries. That's why we post them on SO. If you can find this in a reasonable amount of effort (did you even spend one minute trying?) then it's too basic for my taste.

But again, I'm just one voice; I would really like to see this site survive private beta, and NOT get shut down with "basic questions and answers, it's not a good expert site"

/me disappears into the void

Al Ummat

sorry I have no references for this

0

A: How to clean carpet from urine stains?

Asalamu wa alaikum, You must wash it 3 times, you can wash it in the washing machine but first you must remove most of the filth from the carpet, you must figure out something where you are not spreading the filth. After this you can wash it in the Machine 3 times. I do not know about sponges, ...

Gigili

I'm not sure if it's possible to provide reference.

But you missed the main point of the question.

Al Ummat

@Gigili please tell me what is the main point of the question !!

ashes999

9:36 PM

@Gigili proof is fundamental to Islam; it's a religion of knowledge, not opinions

Gigili

I thought you disappeared ;)

ashes999

must...resist...urge....to....save....Islam.SE....!!

sorry, I take too much personal responsibility for this site :)

Gigili

@ashes999 Proof is what Sunni's shoyookh have said on the matter? Or what?

ashes999

@Gigili proof is the foundation of sunnah Islam; without proof, Islam is just "I think you think ..."

it's the foundation, the ground layer, the fundamental methodology of everything and anything.

Sometimes we don't know, or understand, the proof; but that's our failing. We didn't study enough to get to that level.

Anyway, Islam demands submission to Allah, not in-depth understanding of every piece of law. But on an SE site, proof will be what saves us from a purely opinionated website.

disappearing for real this time, ttyl

Al Ummat

Wa alaikum salaam @ashes999

goldPseudo

9:40 PM

tangential to the conversation, yes, but i just love how Arabic pluralizes words.

Al Ummat

@goldPseudo sorry I do not understand, please explain

goldPseudo

making words plural by adding and changing vowels is so much more interesting than English's habit of adding an 's' to the end.

it's one of my favorite aspects of Arabic.

right up there with the ability to understand a word just by it's triliteral root.

Al Ummat

Hmm.. I never heard such a comment about Arabic, actually I never really thought much of it

:)

goldPseudo

even if i've never seen a word before, if i recognize the root i can still muddle out what is being written. not a lot of languages you can do that with.

Al Ummat

9:55 PM

:) maybe that's one of the reasons Allah sent the Qur'an in Arabic

Gigili

@AlUmmat "It is not possible to roll the carpet and wash in the washing machine." – Gigili 32 mins ago

@ashes999 It's not necessarily my opinion when I can't provide an online source. You're mistaken.

Al Ummat

@Gigili yeah sorry about that

Gigili

No problem. You can edit your answer accordingly.

Al Ummat

Is there a question about the Qira'aats?

goldPseudo

11:05 PM

hrm. do we really need tags for usool-ul-fiqh, deriving-fiqh and fiqh?

Al Ummat

@goldPseudo we only need the Fiqh tag

goldPseudo

it looks like @ashes999 created the tag, i'm just wondering if there was a reason for it rather than using the existing "fiqh".

Al Ummat

How do we promote our site?

0

Q: How do we promote our site?

I am not sure if this is early or not , but I believe it is a good one to ask before the public beta. I got this from the seven essential question for every meta How do we promote our site? This is rapidly becoming a hot issue across the entire network: how to promote your site and how to rea...

discussion

Feeds

ashes999 has been automatically appointed as owner of this room. (What does this mean?)

Al Ummat

11:23 PM

Wow

congratulations @ashes999

goldPseudo

Nice. Does that mean you can do that thing where new questions are automatically posted to the chat? That might be useful.

Al Ummat

He can do the following "The owner can add and remove RSS feeds being posted into the room, change room name and description, and similar things. "

goldPseudo

i think what i'm thinking is the RSS feeds thing.

i know i've seen it done in other channels.

Al Ummat

what do you mean

goldPseudo

where whenever someone asks a new question on the site, or on the meta, it'll automatically add a link to the chatroom.

Dynamic

11:30 PM

I've seen that also.

Al Ummat

That will be useful

Dynamic

By the way, @AlUmmat, the discussion you made about site promotion is useless at this point :-). Nobody can join but the people who commited until Public Beta.

Al Ummat

@Dynamic I posted it for a discussion by those who committed

goldPseudo

i wouldn't call it useless, so much as i'd call it trying to be ready for when we actually can promote.

Al Ummat

I want to be ready when the public beta comes

Dynamic

11:32 PM

@AlUmmat I guess I see your points...

Al Ummat

if the committed users are ready than it will move smoothly along.

do these rooms have any reason to exist anymore ? chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/3848/… chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/3824/lets-open-our-minds

goldPseudo

"Rooms will exist indefinitely, so long as there is at least one person actively talking in the room. A room is considered worth retaining if it has more than 15 messages by at least 2 users."

they'll automatically either delete themselves or close themselves as long as they're not used for a week or two.

Al Ummat

11:52 PM

ok so should they exist?

should we direct activity away from them?

should this be the only room on Islam.SE?

goldPseudo

it should be fine. no reason one-on-one discussions can't be held in their own rooms.

not sure what the "open our minds" one is for, since there's not actually any posts in it. it'll delete itself soon enough.

Al Ummat

ok

goldPseudo

i would generally oppose any sectarian segregation (e.g., "Sunni-only room"), but having rooms dedicated to particular topics is fine. easier than just having everyone trying to talk at once in here.

Al Ummat

:)

I was looking at this question which was closed

-1

Q: What books are recommended for a new Muslim to read?

If a new Muslim wants to develop his knowledge about Islam and faith, What books should be recommended for him in this situation ?

muslim convert faith

goldPseudo

"recommendation" questions come up on pretty much all SE sites at some point or another.

they don't really work with the SE mechanic as well as it might appear.

Al Ummat

11:59 PM

why?

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