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12:03 AM
@robjohn Maybe mention that (with your Safari version) on the Meta SE thread.
 
12:52 AM
@Jakobian it is never too early
at least the rudiments should be administered to babies as a kind of baptism
as part of baptism, if the parents are already doing that
 
1:11 AM
@leslietownes People like you are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes...
 
2:01 AM
firing squad, eh? funny you should mention, did you know the "right" way of dealing with your enemies is---
 
2:22 AM
@Thorgott I looked this up just now and found this: proofwiki.org/wiki/Universal_Property_of_Quotient_Set
I am vaguely familiar with this from an exercise in Amann Escher
Leslie I had to run to dinner and am only getting back now. Just wanted to say thank you again for the help! @leslietownes
 
2:59 AM
@EE18 yes, that's what I mean
 
3:33 AM
@PM2Ring I did
 
4:03 AM
what is the $\pi_1$ of this space?: $X$ is a sphere with three disks removed (so three boundary components) and each boundary is identified with $S^1$ by degree $n,m,k$ maps
I think it should be like $\langle a,b,c\mid a^nb^m = c^k\rangle$
Something I'm confusing now: For $S^1\times I$, if I do identification only on one boundary component $S^1\times\{0\}$ with other space $X$, then still I can just deformation retract $S^1\times I/\sim$ to $S^1\times\{0\}$ but if I do identification on both boundary components, then I cannot just deformation retract as before right? @Thorgott
In particular, attaching two $2$-cells on $S^1$ by degree $n$ and $m$ maps is different from attaching two $2$-cells on $S^1\times I$ on each boundary by degree $n$ and $m$ maps are different
 
4:59 AM
Hmm what is the $\pi_1$ of this space?:
$\pi_1$ calculation is not straightforward as before to me so I apply van Kampen
I split the total space $X$ into two components $U$ and $V$ containing $\gamma$ such that $U$ contains $a,b$ and $V$ contains $c$.
$a,b,c$ are generators of $\pi_1X$ and $a^mb^k = c^n$ is one relation. I need to add one more relation that combines three components to one.
and...it's $a^m = b^k = c^n$?
So $\pi_1X = \langle a,b,c\mid a^m,b^k,c^n\rangle$ so $\Bbb Z/m *\Bbb Z/n *\Bbb Z/k$?
I need someone to nod to my answer
 
 
3 hours later…
8:38 AM
this is funny: I went to my probability professor's office to ask some questions and he was doing a weekly meeting with his student. One of his advice to his student was "don't take my class. it's a waste of time. Just google it if you forgot some concepts".
5
 
sage advice, and who would know better than he
 
After hearing that, I decided to turn back and go back to my room
 
 
3 hours later…
11:34 AM
do u think science can explain consciousness? why or why not
 
12:05 PM
I think there was a youtube video that I skipped that consciousness is contained in the core of our brain
So it seems to be a physical thing, yes
 
12:53 PM
Can't ever recall this room ever having such few participants at any moment.
 
@Jakobian yes, i agree
@Jakobian but i buy more into the correlation hypothesis than the causation hypothesis. certain processes are correlated to consciousness.
 
1:34 PM
@onepotatotwopotato not surprising.
he's atleast honest about it.
I thought that was the case only at the college I'm in currently.
But it's a universal phenomenon it seems.
 
@冥王Hades At one point, I’ve been here with two others.
 
@RyderRude consciousness could be related to Guilio Tononi's hypothesis out of university of wisconsin
it says consciousness can theoretically arise out of any sufficiently connected, integrated system
so a pebble could have sentience based on this theory
 
I don't think molecules of a stone are sufficiently connected, or whateve
 
Tononi associates $\varphi$ to a system $K$ where $\varphi$ is a numbe3r
and gives a measure of consciousness
 
In physics objects aren't mathematical. We use models to translate physical problems to the mathematical world
So it doesn't make sense to ask if earth is a manifold because one is a physical object and the other is a mathematical object
 
1:53 PM
you saw that :P.
 
trying to determine if you fix a unit hypercube and inscribe spheres in them for each dimension if the sequence of the volumes of the spheres strictly increases, strictly decreases or stays constant
Revised problem: (Optimization) Consider a set of maximal (volume) codimension one hyper-surfaces of revolution $S_n$ with constant positive curvature and embeddings $e_n:S_n \hookrightarrow X^n$ for $X^n=[0,1]^n$ with conjugate points $p,q$ anchored on $\partial X^n$ where $\partial X^n=X^n-(0,1)^n$ for $\mathrm{dist}(p,q)=\sqrt{n}$. Is the sequence $\lbrace \mathrm{Vol}(S_n) \rbrace_{n\in \Bbb N}$ strictly increasing, strictly decreasing or constant for all $n$?
 
2:08 PM
@JohnZimmerman yes, i saw some interviews of him. he says we look at our consciousness and study the question "what physical system could have this feature?" and he comes up with integrated information theory
i think he is hypothesizing a correlation between the integrated information and consciousness
 
2:25 PM
Ah?
After looking the figure only, seems like Rips complex?
 
3:24 PM
In my lecture notes there are the following two sentences:
> The space $\mathbb{R}^{n}$ is a locally compact topological (abelian) group with respect to translation, which is a continuous operation. More generally, there exists a (left or right) translation-invariant measure, called Haar measure, on any locally compact topological group; this measure is unique up to a scalar factor.
When the author says $\mathbb{R}^n$ is a topological group with respect to translation, does this make sense? Maybe they mean addition, although translation is closely associated with that, but I wouldn't say they are the same thing, since translation is map from $\mathbb{R}^{n}\to\mathbb{R}^{n}$ whereas addition is a map from $\mathbb{R}^{n}\times \mathbb{R}^{n}\to\mathbb{R}^{n}$.
this has me confused
 
3:56 PM
does the calculations I made above make sense @Thorgott ?
 
 
1 hour later…
5:20 PM
@psie $x\mapsto x+t$
 
@onepotatotwopotato $c$ is redundant, $c = ab$ in the pair of pants.
@onepotatotwopotato This is right, upto care regarding signs.
@onepotatotwopotato This looks completely wrong.
 
X4J
5:36 PM
If someone could guide me with this I'll be very happy - I'm trying to prove, in a way that involves using the integral test the following inequality: for each $n \in \mathbb{N}$: $\sum_{k=1}^{n} \frac{1}{\sqrt{k}} \leq 2\sqrt{n} - 1$. However I struggle to bound it tightly enough
 
6:09 PM
@X4J integral test is not for that
 
Let $G$ be a finite group of order $n$ and let $a \in G$. How can I show that $|a| \leq n$? Can I say something like $a^n = e$ for all $a \in G$
so $a^{n+1} = a$ etc so by definition of order it's the smallest number $k$ such that $a^k = e$
and since $G$ has order $n$, $k$ cannot be larger than $n$ or we get repetitions
 
@Obliv $|a|$ divides $n$, so $|a|\leq n$
 
6:25 PM
@BalarkaSen is it?
it's more like we add a new generator $d$ s.t. $d^n=a$, $d^m=b$ and $d^k=c$
and then $c=ab$ gives us that $d$ has finite order
 
@RyderRude I do believe it. Ask me!
 
yet we also get two more generator from picking a path in the sphere part between the basepoints of the 3 circles that get identified
in particular, the existence of an open cover by two path-connected sets whose intersection has 3 components implies that $\pi_1$ needs to have a retract that is free on two generators
 
More precisely a mapping exists
 
which I don't think this proposal satisfies
 
X4J
@Jakobian Then what's the idea?
 
6:29 PM
what do you mean? There is no proof, so no place in where the idea could be
 
@Thorgott If you glue a cylinder to a circle by a degree $k$ map, the belt curve $a$ now winds $k$ times around the circle curve $d$ that it is attached to. So $a^k = d$.
 
winding $k$ times around $d$ = $d^k$, no?
 
You could prove it like this: $$\sum_{k=1}^n \frac{1}{\sqrt{k}} \leq 1+ \sum_{k=2}^n \int_{k-1}^k \frac{1}{\sqrt{x}}dx = 1+\int_1^n \frac{1}{\sqrt{x}}dx = 2\sqrt{n}-1$$
 
@Thorgott Perhaps this is right. I didn't pay attention to the direction of the attatchment maps. Then that bit is also wrong, @onepotatotwopotato
 
I think the result be something like $\langle\alpha,\beta,\gamma\vert\alpha^n=\beta\alpha^m\beta^{-1}\gamma\alpha^k\gamma^{-1}\rangle$
where $\alpha$ is the loop in the $S^1$, $\beta$ a path from the circle $a$ to $b$ that becomes a loop in the resulting quotient and $\gamma$ similarly a path from circle $a$ to $c$
 
6:38 PM
Either way it's an easy application of van Kampen without making mistakes and being very careful about what is attached to what with what orientation
 
but you might have to change the signs depending on how exactly the attaching goes
 
If you reversed all the arrows that description would be correct.
 
I would argue it's an excellent case to use groupoid SvK:)
 
No need of that
 
what cover are you using?
 
6:41 PM
I don't use covers. It's clear if you stare at the picture hard enough.
 
lol fair
it's how I argued too, essentially
btw, question: if I write $\alpha\beta$, do you take it as path $\alpha$ followed by path $\beta$ or other way round?
 
a then b
 
yeah, I also tend to that
 
@BalarkaSen Topology in a nutshell
 
but I had a small existential crisis about this a while ago, cause neither convention is unreasonable
 
6:44 PM
this is loop multiplication not composition of functions, so i dont see the problem
 
well, it's a composition of morphisms in the fundamental groupoid (which is a Hom-groupoid of the (2,1)-category Top)
so from that perspective, it should be b then a
but if you think of the group structure as coming from the cogroup structure on $I/\partial I$, it ought to be a then b
 
thats a problem of how composition of functors in categories are defined
 
@AlessandroCodenotti hi, are you interested in rings of continuous functions? If yes, then I have an interesting question I came up with
 
well, writing composition left-to-right would be evil, too
 
I don't know much about them. I needed to open Gillman's book a couple times, but that's where my experience with them ends
 
6:47 PM
@Thorgott draw arrows
 
my writing is all diagrams
 
I see, then you probably wouldn't be interested
 
Hatcher, Spanier, Bredon and tom Dieck all do a then b, but May and Brown do b then a
 
@Thorgott there's 1 out of 6 of these people who namesearches in the chat, you should be careful
 
lmao
 
6:49 PM
but to call a spade a spade, that seems like May and Brown's problem
 
perhaps
in May's case it's odd, he somehow implicitly inverts the cogroup structure on suspensions
 
God I have to write some arithmetic, I'm so pissed
I also have to tell people why the hell I am doing the arithmetic
 
@Jakobian that's the definition of a translation. You wouldn't say that's a binary operation, would you? The binary operation in my view here is addition. If that is defined, then we can speak of translation.
 
@BalarkaSen my condolences
 
7:05 PM
psie generally speaking if you are reading a textbook and your internal type checker starts beeping at something that can be resolved by interpreting a statement another way, you can just interpret the statement the other way (i.e. the author isn't trying to send you secret messages that you need to decode)
psie: i.e. while i don't know what maps an author might specifically have in mind when they say "translation" (note that a group operation can often be encoded in all sorts of equivalent ways), i think you're right that they mean the usual addition there
if you need separate affirmation that in general a map from R^n to itself is a different thing from a binary operation on R^n, i concur
 
alright, thanks, I will move on :)
 
@MoreAnonymous hi :) why do u believe this and what would an explanation of the creation of qualia look like
 
@psie unary
They don't mean addition. Translation is a map $x\mapsto x+y$
Left/right translation in a group is multiplication from the left/right by that element
Here group operation is addition
Ah okey I overlooked some things that were written there
Yes, you are right, calling $\mathbb{R}^n$ a topological group with operation by translations is gibberish
Author means addition
 
right, when you say some space is a group with respect to some operation, then that operation would probably be the group operation, which is a binary operation, which translation isn't
 
7:20 PM
@RyderRude it follows from yoneda lemma ... We follow the usual argument of inverting the colour spectrum ... That is red and yellow are interchanged .... Now can we reach a consensus different people will reach the consensus "some swapping has happened" ... No ... This is the classic philosopher conundrum .... What about if I invert the sound spectrum? Do we find the samd music theory? Nope ... Music theory changes and it is detectable ... Hence by yoneda lemma there is a mapping
Creation is different btw
U cannot create something which already exists
 
@psie that's what you get for using notes
don't expect it to be perfect
in my experience, notes are usually some of the most error carrying sources
 
this is pointless pedantry
yes, they phrased it odd, we all know what was meant
 
2
Q: The $\infty$-dimensional cube, $\infty$-dimensional cross-polytope and their pseudo-boundaries

Smiley1000Let $A = \mathbb{R}^\mathbb{N}$ with the product topology. Let $B = \{ (x_n)_n \in A \mid \forall n : |x_n| \leq 1\} = [-1, 1]^\mathbb{N}$ be the $\infty$-dimensional cube. Let $C = \{ (x_n)_n \in A \mid \sum_{n=1}^\infty |x_n| \leq 1 \}$ be the $\infty$-dimensional cross-polytope. Let $\operator...

 
P.S an inversion of the sound spectrum preserves the relative mapping
 
calling all weirdos
 
7:28 PM
@leslietownes I hear polytope, I'm out
 
a map S x S -> S being regarded as the same data as a map S -> (S -> S) pops up so often enough that many people don't even have a name for it, that might be what is going on in the example above
the real expository sin is immediately following a use of 'translation' to mean a specific operation on R^n, for purposes of explaining how R^n can be a topological group, with a use of 'translation' to mean 'whatever the operation is in a topological group.' if you aren't already familiar with the first example, you might not understand the second
i.e. the second use makes "X is a topological group under translation" sound sufficiently tautological to naive ears that they may not "get it" when you say, somewhat sloppily, that "R^n is a topological group under translation"
psie what is the personal email of whoever wrote these notes, i want to spend the rest of my day bothering them
 
:)
 
jakobian's point is a good one, lecture notes are often not written with any more intentionality or attention to detail than stuff in this chat
 
@leslietownes Any infinite dimensional convex compact subset of $\ell^2$ is homeomorphic to the Hilbert cube. I suspect you can insert $\{x : \sum |x_i|\leq 1\}$ into $\ell^2$ as such subspace
 
at least, until the day comes when text editors all come with an AI assistant named Jakobian who points out when you're about to do something like what that author did
 
7:36 PM
I believe, $x\mapsto (\frac{x_i}{i})$ would be such homeomorphism
 
jakobian: taking this, removing "Jakobian" and chat timestamps, pasting it into an answer box on main
 
I allow you that
I'm too lazy to bother
 
i'd really like to answer that question with another question, which is, what possessed them to call something an "infinite dimensional cross-polytope"
 
@leslietownes the name is "currying" or "cartesian closed" depending on one's mood and affiliation
 
oof, just straight dropping the c-word in chat
 
7:44 PM
i always call it currying
 
@leslietownes Is $C$ closed in $B$ or am I imagining things
 
any other parents on the west coast might want to be warned that the cursing on chat has started a little early today
 
@Thorgott imagine living in a world where a map A -> (B -> C) does not canonically give rise to a map A x B -> C, but does so only upto contractible choice
redundant copies school strikes again
 
jakobian: offhand i can't tell. someone just posted an answer
 
@RyderRude did I make sense?
 
7:48 PM
@leslietownes yeah I'm not sure if Eric is right
If $\sum |x_i| > 1$ then we can assume $\sum_{i=1}^N |x_i| > 1$. And so a sequence convergent to $x$ wouldn't be in $C$
so $C$ must be closed in $B$, hence compact
 
@Thorgott Watch your language, sir!
 
Now this doesn't mean $dC$ is necessarily closed in $C$
 
@Jakobian The question is about $\operatorname{d}C$, not $dC$. Doi.
 
okay yeah, $dC$ is not closed in $C$
 
@Jakobian You didn't fix it!
It's still wrong!
:P
(Though I think that $\mathrm{d}C$ looks better than either of the alternatives.)
In other news, the weather just cannot make up its c*rr**ng mind today. When I got in this morning, it was clear. An hour later, it was pounding down snow. 45 minutes after that, it was bright and sunny, and all the snow had melted. An hour ago, it was pounding down snow again. And now it is sunny again!
What the heck?
 
8:01 PM
if you go into the "settings" menu you can change the speed at which in-game weather changes. i think you'd need to install a mod if you want to fully get snow out
 
@leslietownes isn't pseudo-boundary of the Hilbert cube homeomorphic to itself?
I was pretty sure it was, well, I guess I'm wrong
its definitely not true. I've imagined some gibberish
 
@BalarkaSen about to study the moduli space of currying choices
@XanderHenderson which was the worst phrase
 
Opinion: Is an unnumbered subsubsection appropriate to set up a lengthy paragraph's worth of notation before I state and prove a theorem? Or should I just manually write \textit{Notation.} blah blah? Or should I write nothing at all and just get on with the paragraph?
Xander, you may have some suggestions about this
@Thorgott The *Teichmuller space
Curry-Teichmuller yoga
 
8:39 PM
lol
 
@BalarkaSen I don't quite understand what you are asking for, but if you have numbered sections, I would not add an un-numbered section.
 
Got it, Xander
 
It sounds to me like you have a subsection on notation. Why not \subsection*{Notation}? (an unnumbered subsection).
Though I don't like the idea of a subsection if there is not another subsection to go with it.
 
8:54 PM
I am already working within a subsection. Within that, I want to set up some more notation to state and prove a theorem
I dont have a subsection on notation
I was wondering if an isolated subsubsection titled Notation is a good idea
Or should I just write a long paragraph before the theorem explaining the notations I am fixing
 
this seems like it might be an organizational issue whose optimal solution would go deeper than whether/how you label something, but "long paragraph immediately before the theorem explaining any notations" is a common enough way of handling this that a reader probably wouldn't be offended by that choice
 
cool, that works
 
As @leslietownes, this sounds like a deeper organizational / structural issue. Hard to give advice without seeing exactly what you are doing. And it all comes down to taste at the end of the day.
 
the deeper issue maybe being, if you really need the notation to understand what the theorem is saying (e.g. for purposes of applying it like a black box in some context outside of your paper), this might militate in favor of working the notation (however long it is) into the statement of the theorem itself, or into definitions that precede the theorem
if you feel like you're going to be making explicit reference to something like "the definitional material immediately preceding Theorem X" a lot, such that it might be handy to have a number, it probably does need something that makes it easier to refer to
but as far as quick fixes go, i'm happy as long as everything i need to make sense of a theorem is right before the theorem, if it isn't in numbered items of its own
 
9:15 PM
There are two instances I had in mind when I asked the above. One of them has a short paragraph preceding the theorem with some standard discussion on notation. I have kept it as is, an isolated paragraph with a \medskip on the final line before it begins -- for better visibility of it as an isolated paragraph discussing some notation in the theorem that follows
 
i once handled this by putting, at the end of the statement of the theorem, "where here and elsewhere X and Y are defined as in (3.1) and (3.2)" where 3.1 and 3.2 were numbered equations expressing most but not all of definitions of X and Y given right before the theorem. in retrospect, the "and elsewhere" feels particularly slimy, but i had the benefit of knowing nobody would ever read what i wrote
 
in the other place the discussion is much longer and sets up crucial notation for a theorem that the entire subsection is devoted to
I have just put up \textit{Setup and notation.} before that discussion begins
 
one of the joys of reading old papers is seeing how little anybody worried about stuff like this
 
@leslietownes hah
 
@BalarkaSen Ew... gross.
You need to have faith in Leslie (Lamport, not Coin).
 
9:19 PM
@XanderHenderson whats wrong with medskip
 
@BalarkaSen It is a TeXism, rather than a LaTeXism.
 
oh, i don't know, what's wrong with cannibalism? why don't we all go drown some puppies?
 
confused noises
 
if you are manually managing how anything is spaced, you have strayed from the true path
 
When using LaTeX, you should focus on syntactic markup, and let the typesetting engine handle the precise spacing. That is the advantage of LaTeX over TeX.
 
9:21 PM
@leslietownes what??
 
@MoreAnonymous If you have to ask...
 
more: the context is someone asking about what's wrong with \medskip in their latex, which, in context, is, oh, forget it.
i'm not sure it makes sense even to me
 
@BalarkaSen Basically, I would prefer that you drown some children and eat some puppies rather than use \medskip in a LaTeX document. At least puppy-eating can be justified in some circumstances.
 
@XanderHenderson sometimes paragraph spacing in latex is horrid
c'mon
 
Child drowning, too, if the child is being particularly annoying. *looks pointedly at his own daughter*
@BalarkaSen Lies.
Have faith in Leslie.
(The child just responded to me with "What?! Did I do something? You're scaring me, Papa!")
 
9:24 PM
"oh, but sometimes paragraph spacing in latex is horrid," said the snake to eve
 
i dont want to things to look like this
(space space) anyway, let us move on with the discussion and talk about Leslie Lamport's interesting work on LaTeX
 
@leslietownes Amen, brother.
 
well, that's put a bigskip under the whole thing
 
@leslietownes I am one comment away from permanently suspending you, sir...
 
calm down people
 
9:29 PM
regarding spacing, let me mention that im a huge fan of microtype
it has literally made my texing experience five times better
 
10:25 PM
calm up
 
My daughter has somehow managed to find a way to pronounce ".gif" which is even more annoying than the peanut butter brand.
 
hello. I am trying to prove that the Cantor set with subspace topology induced by the usual topology on $\mathbb{R}$ is not discrete. In particular, I am constructing a subsett of the Cantor set that is nonempty, not the whole thing, and is not open.
 
@SillyGoose Well, the set of endpoints of removed intervals is a countable, dense subset, if that helps.
 
Let $C$ be the Cantor set, for which $0 \in C$ and let $d_2$ be the usual metric. so I have that the sequence $(1/3^n)_{n \in \mathbb{N}}$ trivially converges to $0$, as there are no elements of the convenient base $\{U = V \cap C \ \lvert \ V \in \tau_{d_2} \}$ containing $0$.
Hence, $\{0\} \cup \{1/3^n \ \lvert \ n \in \mathbb{N} \}$ is not closed. Hence, its complement is not open. Its complement is certainly not empty because the Cantor set is uncountably infinite and it is certainly not the whole Cantor set because the aforementioned set is nonempty.
 
10:44 PM
@SillyGoose Cantor set is very much not discrete
It has no isolated points at all
If $x = \sum a_i/3^n$ is some element of Cantor set where $a_i\in \{0, 2\}$ and $U$ is an open set containing $x$, then we can simply keep terms up to some points the same, say $b_i = a_i$ for $1\leq i\leq N$, where $N$ is big enough, but let $b_i = 2-a_i$ for $i > N$
this will be an element in $U$ distinct from $x$
 
is isolated point a natural topological concept? I have seen it for metric spaces in real analysis, but it is not mentioned in my topology notes
 
yes
$x\in X$ is called an isolated point when $\{x\}$ is open
a space is called perfect if it has no isolated points, Cantor set is perfect
 
11:04 PM
@SillyGoose While the argument that @Jakobian gives is correct, your comment indicates to me that you perhaps are not taking a course in topology, and are not expected to use those tools. What tools are you expected to use?
What is your definition of "discrete"?
 
this is for a first course in undergrad topology, but my prof has a very analytic slant in the sense that I think he wants us to use convergence arguments and so on a lot
so we talk abt limits a lot but not limit points i guess :P
 
Hrm... that doesn't really explain what you are expected to do.
Again, what is your definition of "discrete"?
 
the discrete topology of a set $X$ is the power set of $X$
so declaring every subset to be open
(which is equivalent to all singletons being open)
 
Right, so all you have to do is show that there exists a closed singleton, which is much easier than showing that there exists a non-trivial non-open set.
But that is immediate, since singletons are closed in the ambient topology, yes?
 
But you want a non-open singleton
 
11:14 PM
Oh, shoot.
Yes.
I'm dumb.
(and tired---my math brain is not working right)
 
right i'm not sure if it is easier to show that there exists a non-open singleton vs. a non-open non-trivial set (which I think and hope I did above)
 
Nevermind.
But a non-open singleton is similarly simple to show from the subspace topology.
 
also to give some more context, i am using this theorem as a bit of a machine to construct the non-open set in question
 
@SillyGoose Ah, so you are specifically attempting to invoke that theorem.
 
yes, sorry i should've specified this at the beginning :P
 
11:17 PM
Then yes, the argument you gave above is fine.
 
i do feel like the arguments you and jakobian gave are way more straight forward...
 
@SillyGoose They boil down to the same thing. My observation that the set of endpoints of removed intervals is countable and dense means that if you pick any point of the Cantor set that is not in that set, then you can find a sequence in the set which converges to that other point.
 
i think i made a minor error in what i wrote for the proof, i should not union $\{ 0 \}$ with the set of sequence elements.
 
That is, take $F$ to be the set of endpoints of removed intervals, choose any other point $a$ of the Cantor set, and use density to get a sequence $F \ni x_n \to a$.
 
okay thank you for your help
 

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