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9:00 PM
Ted, what in your opinion accounts for this trend? Are people dumber per se, or there 's some real reason? In other words, does education dumb down and yields dumber students, or have students become less brilliant, hence lower standards?
 
I don't think students have become less brilliant.
 
I think people are trying to improve results @G.T.R
 
I think there are really brilliant students, but most people are dmber
 
No, we have in the US parents who have raised their kids to be entitled and the parents complain if they don't get the highest grades. The last ten years we've had parents calling and showing up to run their children's lives.
I think the best students are fine. But we've lowered standards and lowered expectations overall.
 
These parents, lol
 
9:02 PM
In the US we call them helicopter parents, @Jasper.
You will find all sorts of press about it.
 
I think I live in a sick society, I dislike most people here
 
You dislike most of us, too, @Jasper. :)
 
did any of you guys see 'Idiocracy' ? it's a hilarious look at what the world might look like if the trend towards ignorance continues.
 
Nope @David
 
@TedShifrin Nah, I am planning to move to your country some day...
 
9:03 PM
I meant those of us in here, @Jasper :)
 
@TedShifrin Nah, I only dislike a particular user with more than 100k rep, ...
But he doesn't come to this chat very often
 
@JasperLoy I am planning to move your country one day :3
 
I hope it isn't Brian
coz I like Brian
 
@Hippalectryon You know my country?
 
Brian and I have had fights ...
 
9:05 PM
Most people in this website have had fights
 
@JasperLoy No, but when you wrote 'I am planning to move to your country some day' i read 'I am planning to move your country some day' and that made me laught :D
 
the higher the ranking the more likely it is to have had a fight
 
@Hippalectryon LOL
 
@Ted btw, I saw Pete L Clark is also at UGA
 
I don't mean about math. I mean about attitude about what this place should be.
 
9:06 PM
@user4140 It is certainly not Brian lol
 
Indeed, @Gabriel, he is.
Very smart man. He and I don't always agree about pedagogy, but he's very, very smart.
 
Pete Clark once got into an argument with Jeff Atwood, lol
 
I don't know who Jeff Atwood be.
 
The cofounder of SE
 
9:07 PM
He looks young
 
who, @Gabriel? Pete or Jeff?
 
Wikipedia: Jeff Atwood is an American software developer, author, blogger, and entrepreneur. He is known for the programming blog Coding Horror, and as the co-founder of the question-and-answer website Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange Network
 
Pete
 
He's probably about 40 now, @Gabriel.
 
ah he's 38 actually
 
9:09 PM
@G.T.R, UGA, in Georgia?
 
Well, it's all young compared to me.
Yes, @David. That's where I be, too ... at least for now.
 
I am so old now, lol
I want my youth back
I guess I will get it back in my next life
 
Oh nice, I'm in Atlanta... Just moved here from Alaska
 
Ah, cool, @David. Welcome!
 
So many Atlantans. That's where I grew up
 
9:10 PM
Does UGA have a good math program? I've been dreaming of going back to school for decades
 
I am from the Atlantic Ocean, LOL
 
(well, I grew up nearer to Atlanta than Athens, anyway)
 
Yes, @David, but I'm biased. ... GA Tech is higher-ranked than we are. I am proud of the stuff I've developed for our best undergrads, but I'm about to be gone :D
 
@TedShifrin You still have many years to live, lol
 
Well, @Jasper, with cancer one never knows :D
 
9:11 PM
@TedShifrin Do you have it now?
 
The surgery 2 1/2 years ago seems still to have been successful. There's 90%+ chance I'm rid of it.
 
OK good good.
I hope I don't get any physical illness when I am older, I already have enough mental illness
3
 
I hope so, too, @Jasper.
 
Haha, why did I get 2 stars?
 
@Ted Shifrin, Fourier analysis is what I'm most interested in, and have been for years.. Would you suggest GT or UGA for that?
 
9:14 PM
Stars move mysteriously in this chat
 
Hmmm, probably Tech. We have two very strong analysts who do harmonic analysis/combinatorial number theory. But Tech has more (applied) analysis for sure.
 
@DavidKirby Go to UCLA and work with Tao, lol
 
OH, well damn, actually it's Harmonic Analysis that I'm most excited about -- I've had a lifetime of applied analysis
 
Well, Neil Lyall and Akos Magyar you can check out. We also have Jingzhi Tie who does some PDEs and analysis on Lie groups.
(If you get confused, Magyar was here, left for UBC, and is coming back this fall.)
 
I hope Lee doesn't retire so soon, would be good to work with him
 
9:16 PM
Lee is older than I am ... but that doesn't prove anything, @Jasper.
 
@TedShifrin Yeah you told me he was old as a grad student
Hello @OldJohn!!!
 
Wow, @OldJohn!!
 
Hi @JasperLoy
 
It's been so long, I've forgotten what name I was calling you, @OldJohn :P
 
Just thought I would drop in to let people know I am still alive :)
 
9:18 PM
That's good ... Been climbing mountains?
 
@TedShifrin "Al" - I think :)
 
@OldJohn You are still young, lol
 
@OldJohn hi
 
@TedShifrin Yep - done 18 of my planned 214 "Wainwrights"
 
@Jasper Loy, UCLA seems a bit out of my reach at the moment... I've sort of gotten attached to my girlfriend's kids here in Georgia, and I doubt much would tear me away from them at this point.
 
9:19 PM
There are still a few to go, I guess.
 
@TedShifrin Yeah
 
@DavidKirby Ah, I am 32 and have never dated, sad!
 
...
 
@TedShifrin, thanks for the info... Um, I hope it's ok that I'm asking so many questions, but do you know of any resources or help for an old guy that wants to go back to school? Any time I search for scholarships and such they're always geared towards young people, and I honestly can't imagine any young person that would be as hardcore of a student as I would be. ;)
 
@JasperLoy - Did you hear that I met up with Jonas when he came over to the UK?
 
9:23 PM
Jonas Teuen?
 
@OldJohn Nope, so he is still alive!
 
@JasperLoy, oh hah, well you're not missing much.
 
@user4140 Yep
 
@DavidKirby Don't almost all US universities pay you as a TA for math grad school?
 
@JasperLoy Alive and well - I went to a talk he gave at Lancaster University
 
9:23 PM
@TedShifrin Hey, are you able to see flux integrals in your head? :p
 
@OldJohn I am also still alive, lol
 
@JasperLoy Excellent!
 
@JasperLoy, oh I have no idea.. Also, I'd probably want to start out as a Junior (or equivalent) since I've developed a lot of bad habits over the years and I need a good dose of theory to set me straight.
 
@JasperLoy and when you come to the UK, I will buy you lunch and a beer too :)
 
@DavidKirby Meaning 3rd year undergrad?
 
9:25 PM
@JasperLoy, correct.
 
OMG @OldJohn Hi :D
 
@skullpatrol Hi there
 
@DavidKirby Hmm, I don't know if there are grad programs that allow you to do that, but hey you can always do your own studying and everything. After all you need the GRE to get into grad school
 
@Ted Want to help me with something stupid?
 
@JasperLoy, ah, so that's probably the better approach.. Looking at the GRE website now and it looks super easy.
 
9:28 PM
What happened to anon?
that guy was really smart
 
he's still here
@DavidKirby you need to take the subject test too
 
@user4140 anon = sea turtles, he has 2 accounts
 
Will that make me stupid, @Mike?
 
Oh, I see
 
@seaturtles pretends to be only half as smart, @user4140 :D
 
9:30 PM
yeah, I didn't think seaturtles was as smart as anon.
 
He has a third account, but only he knows what it is.
 
haha
 
Also, I know anon's real first name, lol.
 
@David @N3: Sorry, I went to mix a martini ...
 
I am so proud.
 
9:31 PM
In which account is he smartest?
 
as "anon", I believe
 
@Ted I want to determine the 3-fold covers of the punctured torus. This is equivalent to finding the 3-fold covers of $S^1 \vee S^1$. But I've no clue how to approach this.
 
@David, I don't think we're ageist in terms of support. It's based on quality. But commuting from Marietta/ATL is pretty much impossible for a grad student.
 
*connected 3-fold covers
 
Oh, that's the covering space stuff I hate. There are non-normal covering spaces.
It's really a graph theory question to draw pictures and make sure you get them all.
 
9:32 PM
Ugh. That's what I thought.
Gross as hell.
 
There's discussion of that in Hatcher, in particular.
@N3: Yes.
 
How many proofs of the triangulation of surfaces are there?
 
I know - I was kind of hoping he'd do an example where he found, e.g., all the 2-fold covers.
 
There aren't many $2$-coverings.
I dunno, @Jasper. I've actually never been through one of them carefully.
 
@TedShifrin, gotcha.. Thanks for the info!
 
9:33 PM
I figured as much. I'd guess there are 2 or 3.
 
Good luck, @David. I won't be around UGA too much longer, but let me know if I can help.
You should start with strong GRE (subject test) scores :)
I can think of $3$ up to isomorphism so far @Mike.
 
I feel this is a stupid question but math.stackexchange.com/questions/814217/…
 
@Ted I'm actually only interested in up to homeomorphism, forget the covering space structure.
 
"2 vectors so we should add them together using Σ. 3 components so we need to times them using Π. And the 3 goes over the Σ and the 2 goes over the Π. ?? "
* and yet the 3
 
@TedShifrin, yup, that seems like the best path -> get strong scores and that'll open up opportunities.
 
9:36 PM
For $2$-fold covers, I think it's the same, @Mike.
Plus, @David, as always, letters of recommendation. Granted, for you, that will be tougher.
 
Up to homeomorphism I only see two connected 2-fold covers, @Ted: take a pair of circles and glue their north and south poles together, and a chain of three circles.
 
Must go - later guys
 
Bubye, @OldJohn. Lovely to see you.
 
later pal
 
Bye @TedShifrin @skullpatrol @JasperLoy
 
9:38 PM
If you allow disconnected there's obviously another.
 
@OldJohn Bye!
I am going to bed, it's almost 6 am, lol.
 
sleep well
 
so
 
@JasperLoy That's when I wake up
 
Hmm, @Mike, you're right, I think.
Good morning, @Jasper.
 
9:39 PM
@Ted If one runs through the graph theory those are the only 3.
 
I definitely dislike this stuff, @Mike. I only think about it when I run the topology qual prep sessions in summer, and I won't be doing that again.
 
@Ted I think you can guess my interest in it. And there appear to be four 3-fold ones.
 
Any ideas on how to find $\lim_{n\to +\infty} \sum_{i=1}^{n}(a+i\frac{b-a}{n})^p\frac{b-a}{n}$? :)
 
if I wanted to do graph theory I wouldn't be doing topology... but I shouldn't say that to a geometric group theorist.
 
Yes, @mirgee. That's an integral.
 
9:43 PM
@MikeMiller What about a geometric group terrorist ? =D
 
No, you shouldn't, but are there any of those here?
@Hippa: Tu n'as pas de boulot à faire? :D
 
@TedShifrin Ben si je bosse en même temps :P jusqu'à 1-2 heures
 
@Ted I bet Gruber might call himself that.
 
@TedShifrin Indeed, it is $\int_a^b x^p dx$ and I am trying to solve it using sums :)
 
9:45 PM
I don't think Alex would put anything "geometric" in his title :P @Karl would.
 
He'd be a finite geometric group terrorist.
 
OH, @mirgee. You're not going to be able to do that unless someone gives you a magic formula about $\sum_{i=1}^n i^p$.
 
@TedShifrin There is none? OK, I will try a different approach :) Thanks.
 
There is one. It's gross.
 
9:49 PM
There is one, @mirgee. But I don't know what you know and what you don't.
What precisely are you supposed to be doing?
 
@TedShifrin Oh, that's easy. I know almost nothing :)
 
What does the person who assigned the problem expect you to know?
Are you sure they didn't want you to recognize it as the definite integral and be done with it?
 
No no, the task was to calculate the integral (give) using sums
 
For general $p$?
 
@ted do you know ODE terrorists? I'm looking for a finite-time blow-up
 
9:51 PM
Yes
 
LOL ... sounds like a Jean-Luc Godard movie @GTR
Then you need a formula for $\sum i^p = n^{p+1}/(p+1)+\dots$. @mirgee
@GTR, are you asking for an example? I'm not going to just do your homework!
 
Nah I'm headed to bed
 
Bonne nuit :)
 
Bye @ted @Hippalectryon
 
@G.T.R Bonne nuit ;)
 
9:55 PM
@Mike I couldn't say too much about finite geometric groups. they've been (sunglasses) classified.
 
That's so hard! I tried a different partition, and got even wilder sum! One has to know when to give up, I guess.
 
There's a clever argument, @mirgee, due supposedly to Fermat, where one uses a geometric subdivision of the interval, rather than an arithmetic subdivision. That is, divide into subintervals whose lengths form a geometric sequence.
But the algebra is quite nontrivial. I actually put this into Spivak's Calculus as an exercise.
Then the upper and lower sums turn out to be a geometric series, and so you can do it without any ridiculous formulas.
 
Have you @TedShifrin finished tutoring the high school student through Spivak?
 
$\lim_{n\to \infty}\sum_{i=1}^n(a(\frac{b}{a})^{1\over n})^pa({{b}\over{a}})^{\frac{i}{n}}(1-(\frac{b}{a})^{-\frac{1}{n}}) $ for any masochist out there :)
 
Yes, @skull. He finished his final exam almost a month ago.
 
10:02 PM
Did he get 100
 
No, mr eyeglasses, he did not.
 
That's too bad
 
99.9?
 
That doesn't look right, @mirgee.
No, @skull.
 
@TedShifrin I tried this subdivision: $\sigma_n=\{a,aq,aq^2,...,aq^n=b\}$ where $q=\sqrt[n]{b/a}$, from my book
Must have messed up somewhere
 
10:07 PM
OH, your book told you to do it? So why were you doing the other?
Well, maybe it's right. It just didn't seem right to me from a cursory glance.
 
No one told me anything, there are two subdivision mentioned, I'm trying the other one :D
 
@mirgee: Look at the first term in that complicated product.
 
why the deletion?
 
Hmm, is there a mistake?
 
Because threatening suicide is not a joking matter @Starker. Although I have no idea who removed it.
 
10:12 PM
Ah, I see :)
 
Indeed @mirgee.
Now proceed, once you fix that.
 
haha, was waiting for that.. sometimes it's the answer that's right under your nose!
 
@David, waiting for what?
 
the lightbulb moment. ;)
 
Well, $1$ and $i$ look the same, especially in an exponent.
OK, I'm outta here. Y'all misbehave without me.
 
10:14 PM
later skater
 
well thanks for the thumb ups
 
@TedShifrin Yeah :) Thanks, see you later
I know what to do now
I think
 
Bye Professor @TedShifrin
 
I have to wait 2 days before I can award a bounty for some reason
 
Give the "community" time to see it.
 
10:19 PM
hmm
I mean I'm nearly there..it's just a flaw in the way I'm thinking about it
 
@Starkers see etiquette rules in the sidebar
 
@G.T.R J'ai trouvé comment avoir la base extraite à partir de la base incomplète : Tu l'applique avec la famille libre = l'ensemble vide :)
 
if you're talking to people in chat and ask for help with something that coincides with the site that's fine, but don't make your only participation thirsty one-line pleas to advertise a question
 
It's all good in the hood :-)
 
I'm out of there, seeya * afk *
 
10:34 PM
later pal
 
Random open question: is anyone here participating in the ARML on the 30th and 31st?
 
what does ARML stand for?
 
American Regions Math League
 
icic
 
its the biggest high school team math competition out there, and I was just wondering if any other mathse-ers were competing
 
10:49 PM
Can anyone give a hint for proving that every abelian group is a factor group of a free abelian group?
I suppose a similar result applies to free modules, but I've not nearly covered them yet.
 
@Alyosha consider the free abelian group on the elements of your original abelian group
 
@MikeMiller Thanks. I feel I overcomplicated as always.
 
No worries, @Alyosha - that's actually a tricky idea! Cayley's theorem (every group is a subgroup of a symmetric group) is based on a similar idea.
 
11:58 PM
Hello everyone
 

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