Mathematics - 2014-04-17 (page 3 of 4)

5:03 PM

@Mike Kind of. In addition to unorthodox views in matters scientific and philosophical, he has - or at least used to state - the view that requiring basic civility on SE sites (or elsewhere) was a mechanism to suppress truth. And hence made a sport of being as offensive as he fancied, which earned him a lot of suspensions on various sites.

Mike

heh

"This is a case where the mathematicians are stupid and brainwashed, not the critics."

2

Awal Garg

@Mike great one

:)

meer2kat

@Mike love it haha

Mike

that's... a quote

I am not saying that unironically

just to clarify

Shisui

@meer2kat The room was frozen.

-_-

meer2kat

5:07 PM

@Shisui and taken over by moderators. well this blows.

there's actually quite a bit of poetry in there

Awal Garg

@meer2kat because of the noise polluted by sawarnik most probably

meer2kat

@robjohn where is the main chat room?

Shisui

@meer2kat I know >_>

Ionică Bizău

Hi!

Shisui

Is there another poetry room guys?
@meer2kat @AwalGarg

Awal Garg

5:08 PM

thy shall revolt

Ionică Bizău

Can you please answer my question?

0

Q: Franck and Hertz graph function

I need a function whom graph is the following (the Franck and Hertz experiment graph): Currently I wrote the following function: function comptuteValue (value) { var period = 4.9 , low = 6 ; function addOrSubstract (x) { if (x < low) { if (x <= p...

MickLH

hahaha @meer2kat I went to get water and wtf happened

meer2kat

@Shisui i'll ask kit about it

@MickLH dunno. kit deleted the room

Awal Garg

@meer2kat i think it is the Comms Room

MickLH

haha I've seen moderators cracking down on childish egos lately

Awal Garg

5:10 PM

The Comms Room

ServerFault's lobby

3

MickLH

although I think deleting an entire room over one persons (off-topic) comments is quite ridiculous overkill

Awal Garg

@MickLH that too, a 14 year kiddo kid

Shisui

@MickLH Indeed. I was in the middle of writing a nice Haiku too.

Mike

if you don't cut out the off-topic comments here, this room will be next

Shisui

@meer2kat Let me know what happens :)

@Mike What's your favourite mathematical constant?

Awal Garg

5:12 PM

@Mike it can't be. it seems an official room for a very popular site

Mike

seven

Shisui

@Mike 7? What about $\frac{\pi}{2}$

meer2kat

@MickLH i'm rather upset. apparently someone was flagging him. otherwise we wouldn't have had an issue.

MickLH

well of course

Mike

who cares, @Shisui

Ionică Bizău

5:14 PM

@Shisui What about PI? Did you know that pipi means pee in Romanian? Hahaha!

MickLH

@meer2kat Any time you see a room fill up with mods, it's probably because of a flag, I don't think they like to roam channels in packs without cause :P

meer2kat

@MickLH that was crazy. tons of them. felt like a police force :)

Awal Garg

@meer2kat exactly

meer2kat

alright boys, we've been directed to go chill here for actual writing purposes: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/168/the-overlook-hotel

KitFox

Hi.

Shisui

5:15 PM

@meer2kat Alright, lass.

Colin K

Hey has anybody ever seen the notation $\equiv_\theta$ ? That is, a triple-bar equals sign (the "is defined as" symbol), with a subscript?

Shisui

@Mike I care.

@IonicăBizău That's why I chose $ \frac{\pi}{2} $ :P

KitFox

So to sum up, I felt that the room needed more moderation than we could give it. I have encouraged @meer2kat to use the Writer's chat for the same purpose. It's patrolled and collaborative poetry is something that would be encouraged there.

r9m

@Shisui Uchiha ... :P lol Naruto fan ?? :D

meer2kat

@KitFox Thank you again for the recommendation :)

Daniel Fischer

5:18 PM

@ColinK $\equiv$ is also "is congruent to", and I have seen $a \equiv_m b$ used as an alternative for $a \equiv b \pmod{m}$.

KitFox

@meer2kat You're welcome. I hope you enjoy the community there. I do, but we're hard to find sometimes.

Colin K

@daniel

oops, hit enter early :)

meer2kat

@KitFox Looking forward to it. If not, I can go back to my poetry community on Stronghold Kingdoms hahaha. Crazy the people you'll find in a war game's chat room.

KitFox

I know, right?

Colin K

@DanielFischer: I don't think it's that in this case. That I've seen before. This is in the context of statistics, \theta is a model parameter

meer2kat

5:19 PM

@KitFox :D

Colin K

This professor uses an irritating mixture of modern and ancient notation, and I don't know what the heck he means in this case :)

Daniel Fischer

@ColinK Aha. Then it's indeed unlikely to be that.

Shisui

@r9m Who isn't a Naruto fan? Have you seen the latest chapter?

Also, @KitFox is there an anime chat (preferably Naruto)?

Colin K

Usually a subscript theta in his notation means "Conditional on theta" but that doesn't make sense in the context where I'm seeing it, and I've never seen him use it on an \equiv

Mike

@Shisui yes, there is

Colin K

5:21 PM

Meh, can probably ignore it for now. Thanks anyway :)

r9m

@Shisui ya (manga) .. anime downloading now :)

Shisui

@Mike Could you link me to it?

Matt N.

@HenningMakholm Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Sounds like Mücki.

Shisui

@r9m We can go to the anime (or manga) chat and discuss it there, so as to not derail the maths chat :P

r9m

@Shisui agreed :D

Awal Garg

5:22 PM

@meer2kat @Sawarnik @MickLH @Shisui It really felt like we were back in World War 1 and suddenly the Nazi's attacked us and took over our goods when the mods came in the Poetry room.

meer2kat

@AwalGarg That's not a nice comparison. They were just doing their job.

MickLH

@AwalGarg Haha man if you got a kick out of that you should have seen the drama the unfolded over the last few days in the game development chat

Awal Garg

@meer2kat yes, but I said, it felt so because of the sudden rise of temprature

@MickLH eager to know about that

MickLH

@meer2kat The nazis were just doing their jobs?

Shisui

@r9m chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/10931/madaras-wrath

meer2kat

5:24 PM

@AwalGarg I got a little freaked out when the room filled up :) It was entertaining

Shisui

I think this is a Naruto chat!

meer2kat

@MickLH Oh goodness, no. The moderators.

robjohn

@meer2kat this is the main chat room for math

Shisui

@meer2kat Me too! Usually it's only 3 people in there.

Awal Garg

@meer2kat yes. exactly

meer2kat

5:25 PM

@robjohn yes i know?

robjohn

@Chris'ssis That looks as if it might be handled using odd powers of $(-1)^{1/4}$

MickLH

@AwalGarg Long story short a few people got suspended, the rules are changed, and half the discussion is in a separate room now

meer2kat

@MickLH regarding what?

Awal Garg

@MickLH wow. some serious reason?

Mike

is this room the appropriate place to talk about drama in the game development chatroom?

2

robjohn

5:26 PM

@Chris'ssis the real parts of which go $+,-,-,+,+,-,-,\dots$

@Chris'ssis and the imaginary parts go $+,+,-,-,+,+,\dots$

Chris's sis

@robjohn Yeah.

I have to go now for an hour or so. Back a bit later.

robjohn

@Chris'ssis see you later.

@badp: did a flag bring you here?

meer2kat

@robjohn I think he came with kit

badp

@robjohn A few minutes ago, yes

Awal Garg

@meer2kat then there must be ManishEarth as well

Shisui

5:30 PM

@meer2kat They come in a pair :)

Mike

@badp You don't want to learn about math?

Shisui

Get it! Maths joke :3

badp

I wasn't actively looking right now though

robjohn

@badp ah, I will have to look in the history

MickLH

@Mike As the users who are interested are together here, the information flow is transient, and there is not good reason to create a new room for it, I believe that yes, it was an appropriate comment to make here

badp

5:30 PM

I think it's been handled sufficiently

meer2kat

@Shisui Goodness you all are harsh

fortunately

@meer2kat Sorry?

@Shisui lol

@meer2kat i hope i am not included in all

meer2kat

5:32 PM

@AwalGarg I dunno. I meant you all were harsh on the mods.

Awal Garg

@meer2kat i did get that correctly. I am just saying, i should not be in the all list

I wonder if anyone has ever survived a fight with a mod, or a group of mods

badp

Yes, we typically reach our decisions in a LAST MAN STANDING fashion.

2

Shisui

Only the fiercest of mathematicians can survive the mods.
@AwalGarg

Awal Garg

@badp sir, was that aimed at me?

meer2kat

@AwalGarg I have in SHK....I actually got the mods on my side and we were all fighting against a french mod with bad english who misunderstood what i said

robjohn

5:35 PM

@meer2kat picking on the linguistically challenged... tsk, tsk.

meer2kat

@AwalGarg awkward to explain the difference between a vulgar reference and an alternative word for beauty

@robjohn he thought i was being promiscuous hahaha. oh goodness, that was a fun day

Awal Garg

@meer2kat i meant, you alone against several, or better, a single mod

meer2kat

@AwalGarg I've done that too. Back when I was obnoxious. I basically explained to him that he had the game rules wrong. He didn't like it, but I got my way. It was exciting. The mods here seem much more strong-willed than those guys though

Awal Garg

@meer2kat hmm. I should be very carefull with a modfighter, miss.

meer2kat

@AwalGarg Eh it's not often. I generally believe that the mods are mods for a reason and that I'm thrilled I don't have their jobs. I've grown even more sympathetic since joining the diplomacy team in that game I play. Feels like being a mod

Awal Garg

5:40 PM

@meer2kat now you see badp's comment - Yes, we typically reach our decisions in a LAST MAN STANDING fashion I mean, those guys know that they are overdoing things

@meer2kat Atleast they can be polite or just reply.

meer2kat

@AwalGarg I think they're doing great. No need to complain.

Awal Garg

@meer2kat you sure?

meer2kat

@AwalGarg yerp

I wish I could get my poems back, but that's okay. They needed SK to stop the nonsense as he was causing issue. Closing the room was the right thing to do.

badp

I'm holding off replies because I don't wish to get tangled in a discussion about overreaching when I did absolutely nothing.

meer2kat

@badp Right, nothing wrong was done

Awal Garg

5:42 PM

@meer2kat hey, you are making me feel guilty

meer2kat

Anyways can we move back to math? I deal with people fighting after work all day until bed already lol

Awal Garg

thats not fair

badp

If you have a problem with how Kit handled the situation, please take it straight to her and don't talk behind people's back.

2

Awal Garg

yup, sure

@badp she? really?

badp

I dunno

Sometimes in English it's polite to use the female gender when you aren't sure. The English are weird like that.

Awal Garg

5:43 PM

i didn't know kit was (is) female

meer2kat

@AwalGarg I assumed she is female as well

But yes,.... math

Awal Garg

@badp ok. Anyways, I don't want to distract you from doing your important work. You don't want to be entangled into a discussion, you said. I understand that, sir

badp

It's okay, just stop calling me sir.

Shisui

@badp Sorry sir.

Awal Garg

@badp sure (sir)

badp

5:45 PM

D:

Awal Garg

ok ok, sorry

meer2kat

man ya'll are obnoxious. i'm going to chill in other rooms. bye guys haha

Awal Garg

@meer2kat that was fun (the sir thing) don't you think

bye

meer2kat

@AwalGarg not particularly.

Awal Garg

@Shisui good

c'mon

Shisui

5:47 PM

Peace out people. Stay sexy.

meer2kat

@AwalGarg i'm 20, i'm not old.

Alex Becker

Guys, I have to agree with meer2kat here that this discussion needs to get back to math and away from offending people.

Pedro Tamaroff

@Meer2kat star ignoring peolple

I have most of the kids and trolls on ignore

Anthony

Wait wait wait

Why does differentiable imply continuous?

Pedro Tamaroff

Domt.troll us anthony

Anthony

5:56 PM

Nononono

I'm sorry

Pedro Tamaroff

You know why

Anthony

I thought differentiable was a limit

The limit exists

But it doesn't mean the function has the value at the point, does it?

Gabriel R.

@meer2kat are you watching Vikings tonight?

Mike

it implies it

it's not in the definition of differentiable, @Anthony, but knowing that a function is differentiable at a point is enough to prove that it's continuous there

Anthony

But like I would think that $\frac{x-1}{x-1}$ is differentiable

Pedro Tamaroff

5:59 PM

You need an f(a) term in the limit pal

Mike

@Anthony that function isn't defined at $1$

so it's certainly not differentiable at $1$

Anthony

Oh wait, hold on.

Oh yeah you need to evaluate it at the point, don't you :P

Sorry.

<3

Mike

Removable discontinuities are stupid anyway.

Pedro Tamaroff

SHEESH.

I have 5+ people on ignore.

Anthony

For some reason, I attract stupid thoughts :P

meer2kat

6:03 PM

@GabrielR. i need to catch up. wish i could. i've been too focused on SHK

Hawk

@PedroTamaroff just out of curiosity, am I on your block list?

Daniel Fischer

@Mike Removable singularities are to be considered removed, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Good rule of thumb.

Matt N.

@PedroTamaroff Hey bro, sup?

Daniel Fischer

> math.stackexchange.com/questions/210587/…

Mike

@DanielFischer That's the rule of thumb I take, and that's why I find them so frustrating when people talk about them in precalculus classes.

Yes, $\frac{x-1}{x-1}$ is not defined at $1$. But... who cares?

Matt N.

6:08 PM

@DanielFischer What about it?

Daniel Fischer

What's precalculus, @Mike?

@MattN. Kind of hilarious, claiming physicists know set theory better than set theorists.

Mike

@DanielFischer I don't rightly know, but I do rightly know that sometimes people ask for help on it, and it's terrifying.

Those comments are long gone for us sub-10k laymen

Daniel Fischer

Ah, for me too. I had opened the page on time to still have them visible. Must not refresh.

Matt N.

I don't see where it mentions physics.

Anthony

I'm just getting into drinking coffee.

It's foul.

Matt N.

6:12 PM

Oh, moderation. I see.

Mike

@Anthony Get darker coffee. That's less foul.

Anthony

@Mike Is it now?

Mike

Very.

Anthony

My mommy told me start with the house blend

And it tastes like water and bitter.

Matt N.

@Anthony I'm like a car running on coffee. I die if my tank is empty. I just spent some serious coin on a bag of Java. Coffee is an art, like cooking!

Mike

6:13 PM

@Anthony The more bitter the better.

Daniel Fischer

Mike

A good cup of coffee should practically taste like charcoal.

Matt N.

Come to think of moderation: I agree with the crank in that this site has a tendency to suppress truth in favour of false civility.

Anthony

@Mike I will never forget.

I don't get it though, I've gotten things like caramel lattes and they seem to give me more energy than what I'm drinking right now.

Will Hunting

@Mike I never tried charcoal lol

Mike

6:16 PM

Those taste terrible and'll kill you, bro.

Just go buy a bag of carmels from Rite-Aid or something if you want carmel.

Matt N.

@DanielFischer Thank you! I don't have an opinion on this though.

Anthony

@Mike I'm not saying they're the right thing to drink, I just don't know why they liven me up more.

Mike

Well, you're still young.

You'll grow to like good coffee one day.

Will Hunting

Tea is also good

Mike

Just like you'll learn to cope with Riemann rearrangement.

Anthony

6:18 PM

<3

Matt N.

@DanielFischer But isn't it true that Andres' comment does answer the question?

Anthony

But again, what I'm saying is I feel like they have more caffeine.

Will Hunting

The Riemann rearrangement theorem proof is actually very intuitive

Anthony

@WillHunting Riemann rearrangement itself, to me, is not.

Will Hunting

@Anthony Yeah, it's an amazing result, unbelievable at first

Mike

6:19 PM

I think the proof is the best way of understanding it. It shows you what's going on.

Daniel Fischer

@MattN. I'm not sure what the question is, actually, so I can't tell if it answers the question.

Will Hunting

Guys, I am now downloading Ubuntu 14.04 LTS!

Anthony

Alright I'mma go study, analysis quiz today. Hasta luego.

Matt N.

@DanielFischer : D

@WillHunting I thought you were a Micro-Softie.

Mike

@DanielFischer Damn, that's a nice description of strongly- and weakly-continuous functionals.

Will Hunting

6:22 PM

@MattN. I have been using Linux these few years. I will get Windows when I become rich

Daniel Fischer

@Mike What is?

Matt N.

When I used to write code I would judge programmers' skill by what OS they were using. If Windows they probably don't know much about computers and write shit code.

@WillHunting Is there any reason why you would want to punish yourself if you get rich?

Mike

@DanielFischer The weakly and strongly continuous functionals on $\mathcal B(\mathcal H)$ coincide, and all are of the form $$f(T) = \sum_{i=1}^n \langle Tx_i,y_i\rangle$$

Will Hunting

@MattN. Well, I think Windows is better than Linux, it's just not free

Matt N.

Like Java programmers. Or more accurately, Java "programmers".

Mike

6:23 PM

$x_i, y_i \in \mathcal H$, natch

Daniel Fischer

@Mike Ah. I can't get used to people calling the topology of pointwise convergence "strong".

robjohn

Aug 7 '12 at 21:33, by robjohn

@t.b.: http://i.stack.imgur.com/qdrJH.png

Mike

Well, Davidson calls an even weaker topology weak in this case, @DanielFischer

Matt N.

@WillHunting I guess if you are rich and want to buy a new computer every time they publish a software upgrade then it might be.

Why is everyone bringing up tb?

Daniel Fischer

@Mike I know, WOT and SOT. I just can't get used to it.

Matt N.

6:25 PM

I don't want to be reminded.

robjohn

@MattN. did someone else bring him up? I was just bringing up the link

Mike

@DanielFischer As an outsider, I never got used to weak-* enough to get upset by this change.

Matt N.

@robjohn Yes, Will Hunting, yesterday.

Imagine your worst break up. That's how the loss hit me.

Will Hunting

Awww

I never broke up, because I never had a girlfriend

Matt N.

Aw. : (

Mike

6:27 PM

He's gotten 50 badges since retiring, @MattN.

user127001

Hi @will

Matt N.

@Mike Yes. I don't know what to reply to that.

Will Hunting

@user127001 Hello Bart. Just change your username to Bart!

Matt N.

The exhilaration of doing maths with him was addictive.

@robjohn Castle got me hooked completely. I managed to spend my free time, 6 hours yesterday, streaming 5 episodes all in one go. I just couldn't stop watching. Really stupid, should've been doing maths instead : /

@DanielFischer I think this Ron guy is good entertainment for a change.

Mike

@DanielFischer What a bizarrely different chapter. 5 pages about these operator topologies that have such a different flavor from the rest of the book...

I'm going to pay more attention to the theorems than the proofs, I think.

user127001

6:34 PM

@will no

Daniel Fischer

@MattN. Entertaining he is.

user127001

@will My name is pathetic unless I establish a name for myself in the math community

Will Hunting

@user127001 OK. Don't worry about that

Shisui

Guys, is there a way of evaluating this integral with high school (perhaps even freshman level) calculus? $$ \int \dfrac{\log(x+1)}{x^2 +1} \text{ d}x $$ Where $\log$ represents the natural logarithm.
@WillHunting @DanielFischer @Mike @MattN. @user127001

user127001

@Shisui I'm sorry I'm really bad at math

Will Hunting

6:39 PM

@Shisui Oh you should not ping multiple people in chat to solve your problem, you should just wait

Shisui

@WillHunting Oops! I missed the time limit to edit as well :(

Matt N.

What happens with the substitution $y = x+1$?

Shisui

I'll keep that in mind for next time.

Matt N.

Doesn't seem to help.

Shisui

I tried a substitution of $\tan \theta = x$ followed by $y = \tan\theta + 1$ but I can't seem to reduce it @MattN.

Matt N.

6:42 PM

This is annoying. It would be much easier if it was $log(x+1)/(x+1)$.

user127001

That would be too easy;)

Matt N.

What about $y=x+1$ first and then $y= e^x$ next?

Shisui

@MattN. Exactly. It was a problem that @AmericanLuke posted a few days ago in this very chat.

Matt N.

No, $y=x+1$ is a whole lot of rubbish. Not helpful. At all.

$x^2 + 1 = (x+1)^2 - 2x$. Then

Shisui

Are you thinking of partial fractions thereafter?

Matt N.

6:45 PM

$$ \frac{\log(x+1)}{x^2 + 1} = \frac{\log(x+1)}{(x + 1)^2 - 2x}$$

Shisui

I thought of integration by parts, but it didn't lead me anywhere.

Matt N.

And $y=x+1$ yields
$$ \frac{\log y}{y^2 - 2y +2}$$

: (

Shisui

It's the same as before with the $ y = x+1 $ substitution straight off the bat.

Matt N.

@Shisui Do you think Wolfram Alpha can solve it?

Shisui

I've not checked yet. Wolfram was really my last resort.
@MattN.

r9m

6:49 PM

integrals.wolfram.com/…

user127001

@Shisui, I think @AmericanLuke was trolling you

Matt N.

@Shisui Looks complicated.

Shisui

I was thinking along the lines of: $$ \begin{aligned} \int \dfrac{\log(x+1)}{x^2 + 1} \text{ d}x & \overset{x=\tan \theta}= \int \log \left( \tan \theta + 1 \right) \text{ d}\theta \\ & \overset{f=1+\tan \theta}= \int \dfrac{ \log(f)}{f^2 - 2f + 2} \end{aligned} $$ So again, we'd be going around in spirals @MattN.

user127001

@Shisui it's not solvable by hand

Matt N.

@user127001 How do you know?

user127001

6:52 PM

My professor just told me

Matt N.

@Shisui I give up. I never liked solving integrals.

user127001

He said someone probably gave it as a joke

Pedro Tamaroff