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6:00 PM
No, that's garbage, @Semiclassic.
 
Well, I did say attempt :P
 
This looks interesting
(Every closed subgroup $G$ of $\Bbb R$ is of the form $G = \Bbb R$ or $G = \Bbb Z a$ for some $a \ge 0$)
nvm, $\Bbb Q$ is an obvious counterexample
 
What's the group operation in that case?
 
Anonymous
@TedShifrin I see, makes sense. We didn't learn matrices as vectors (yet) :P
 
6:01 PM
I'm guessing +
 
Seems reasonable.
 
I gave an explanation of this affine geometry stuff in my MAA lecture, but the link isn't working. Try this.
 
Oops, I misinterpreted "closed"
 
$\mathbb{Q}$, closed?
 
so $\Bbb Q$ is not a counterexample
I wasn't making a connection to topology
 
6:03 PM
The right proof of Cramer is this. Write $\vec b = x\vec a_1+y\vec a_2+z\vec a_3$. Do the determinant $\left|\begin{matrix} \vec b_1 & \vec a_2 & \vec a_3\end{matrix}\right|$. Out pops Cramer's rule for $x$.
At any rate, I discussed the geometric interpretation of these coefficients in affine geometry in the middle of that lecture that's linked.
 
Anonymous
I'm reading the link @TedShifrin thanks!
 
@blue: The first part is cool, but not relevant.
Yeah, I fixed the link on my page.
 
@Semiclassical gotta love your comment
If the earth spun twice as fast, our days would last half as long. — Semiclassical 25 secs ago
 
Eh, refresh.
I decided to go for something slightly more generic.
 
@Semiclassical I thought the original one was better
 
6:10 PM
Maybe.
It wasn't meant very seriously in any case.
 
Soon you'll be plagiarised on Facebook
 
@Brody Google Translate tells me it's "Я <3 РОССИЮ." So we could do "R <3 POCCNIO".
 
@AkivaWeinberger the former makes much more sense than the latter
 
@TedShifrin I decided to look at your diff-geo notes, specifically the diff. forms treatment
And one bit I wasn't sure about: $I(V,e_\alpha)=?$
 
@Semiclassic: Did you see my proof of Cramer above?
 
6:21 PM
hadn't, but I see it now.
(Same question for the II function you have in there too)
 
$=V\cdot e_\alpha$. First and second fundamental forms, defined back in Chapter 2.
 
hmmmmm
fair enough.
 
$I$ is the inner product, $II$ is the second fundamental form (basically $II(V,W) = -d\mathbf n(V)\cdot W$, where $\mathbf n$ is the unit normal).
 
guys! not a mathematics question this time, but does anyone know the name of the piece that starts playing at 1.03? youtube.com/watch?v=IJcvRLKO_pU
 
At first glance I thought it was the interior product @Ted
(I just jumped to that section, so my own fault)
 
6:27 PM
@Sha I'm pretty sure the people who made it know
:P
 
No interior products.
I know the piece, but I can't quite get it right.
 
Yeah, makes sense for an undergrad course.
 
Nor any inferior products.
 
@Daminark lol it's a compilation of Japanese commercials :P but people on YouTube respond so slowly...
 
Romeo and Juliett
 
6:29 PM
AH!
thaaaaaank you Astyx
 
You have now been christened Asty
 
Since $I(V,e_\alpha)=\omega_\alpha(V)$ in that presentation, though, you do have $I(V,e_\alpha)=\iota_V \omega_\alpha$. (?) @ted
 
hahahah
 
Lol glad to help
 
It's either Borodin or Rimsky-Korsakov, I'm pretty sure.
Oh, Tchaikovsky?
Russian, we all agree.
 
6:30 PM
Prokofiev :P
lol I thought it was Rachmaninoff, and I knew it had something to do with "a story"
 
Yes, @Semiclassic, although we usually write $\iota_V \omega = \omega(V)$ for a $1$-form.
 
Lobachevsky
 
how would one Russify "Vuklia"? Vukliev?
 
$\omega=d\vec{x}=\omega_1 e_1+\omega_2 e_2$?
 
Vodka
 
6:33 PM
HAHAHAHAHA
omg Astyx
you're genious
 
#stereotypesdiehard
 
I only know Gounod's Romeo and Juliet. Oh well. I'm not an opera fanatic. Really, Prokofiev?
 
How does one show that the determinant of the jacobian of the $n$-dimensional cartesian to polar coordinate transformation $(x_1,\cdots,x_n)\mapsto(r,\theta_1,\cdots,\theta_{n-1})\in(0,\infty)\times(-\pi‌​,\pi)\times(0,\pi)\times\cdots\times(0,\pi)$ is $r^{n-1}\sin\theta_2\cdots\sin\theta_{n-1}$?
 
Oh well. resigns again
 
I was gonna go for Vukomrade but that works too :P
 
6:33 PM
@Alessandro: Inductively, and painfully.
 
lol it's ok @Ted :P
 
@Ted Lots of resignations occurring today
 
And the other can be written as $\iota_V(\star \omega)$?
 
Yes, soon it's permanent.
 
@TedShifrin I did it for $n=3$ and it was already painful enough I might just trust the correctness of the general case
 
6:34 PM
Noooo :(
 
no, no, @Semiclassic. The other uses $de_3$.
 
hm. I guess this goes to the moving frame aspect?
 
Yup, @Semiclassic. Absitively.
I'm fine with that, @Alessandro :P
 
@Ted Seems like it really is Prokofiev
 
Someone has raised the signal?
2 mins ago, by Astyx
Vodka
 
6:35 PM
(sorry I couldn't find a worse recording)
 
Is it really the right piece, though, @Astyx? Although I admit it sounds Prokofievian.
Ah, cool.
 
I was seeing $\omega_{31}$ and jumped the gun.
 
That's $de_3\cdot e_1$, precisely, @Semiclassic.
 
Right.
 
Oh, was that your question you warned me about earlier, @Alessandro?
 
I think I'm more interested in the diff-forms stuff by itself, so I should probably find a different source.
 
This particular passage it called "Dance of the knights" apparently
 
Yeah, this presumes familiarity with forms, anyhow, @Semiclassic. You can read through a few sections of my book if your library has it. There are fancier treatments available, of course.
 
No, my question is "under which conditions can one take a laplacian out of an integral" (stated a bit more precisely), because I need to do that to prove a property of the fundamental solutions to the Laplace equation
 
sure.
 
6:37 PM
Spivak, H. Cartan, Munkres, etc.
 
How to do this question?
 
That's the general differentiation under the integral sign question, @Alessandro — nothing to do with Laplacian.
 
@Abcd do you know the factor theorem?
 
@LeakyNun yes
 
If you know fancy Lebesgue integration, there's one answer. Physicists are very cavalier about hypotheses when they do this.
 
6:38 PM
@Abcd so do you know that $p(\alpha) = p(\beta) = 0$?
 
$p(\alpha)\over p(\beta)$ doesn't make any sense anyway
 
@Abcd, (c) makes no sense; therefore it's not true.
 
@LeakyNun yes.
 
@Abcd Strategy-wise, note that (D) implies (A),(B).
 
@TedShifrin 0/0 = 0
 
6:39 PM
@Abcd this is a very serious misconception
 
smacks @Abcd rigorously
 
@LeakyNun is it infinity
 
@Abcd it is undefined.
 
it's meaningless.
 
It's not defined, and for very good reasons
 
6:39 PM
<--- leaves the rest of the room to lecture
 
What's the difference between undefined and infinity
 
@Abcd infinity is not a number
 
see you guys later ..
 
See you @Ted!
 
One is undefined, the other is infinity
Bye @Ted
 
6:40 PM
@Abcd to understand it rigorously, we must first understand what division means
 
how?
 
what a/b means is a multiplied by the inverse of b
that is how it is defined
 
yes.
 
and the inverse of b is defined as a number f such that bf = 1 = fb, and f is denoted as b^-1
 
@Astyx I didn't get you :/
 
6:41 PM
Ignore me
 
@TedShifrin I do but I'm not sure how that works. I need the derivative bounded by an integrable function and then do some dominated convergence style stuff?
 
For now
 
now can you apply the definition of division to 0/0? @Abcd
 
@LeakyNun yes.
 
what does 0/0 mean, under my definition?
 
6:42 PM
@LeakyNun It means 0 * 0^-1
 
@Abcd and what does 0^-1 mean?
 
@LeakyNun f
if 0 = b
then 0^-1 = f
 
what is the value of f?
f is a dummy variable in my definition
 
1/0
 
no
0^-1 is the number such that the number multiplied by 0 gives 1
 
6:44 PM
@LeakyNun why? PS: I didnt understand what you said next.
 
for any number x, the inverse of x is the unique number such that the number multiplied by x gives 1
e.g. 0.5 is the inverse of 2, because 2*0.5 = 1
 
So, 0 * 0^-1 = 1?
 
that is the definition of 0^-1, yes
 
Now what's the difference b/w infinity and undefined?
 
but we haven't finished
 
6:47 PM
ok
 
does there exist a number x such that 0x = 1?
 
0^-1
 
does there exist a real number x such that 0x=1?
 
Nope.
 
therefore 0 has no inverse.
and therefore 0/0 is meaningless
 
6:49 PM
Is 0/0 not even undefined?
 
undefined is the same as meaningless
a meaning is what you define
 
Oh
What about 1/0
 
anything/0 is undefined
because 0 does not have an inverse
 
okay.
 
I am aware that this is not how they teach people why 0/0 is undefined
 
6:50 PM
But then I learnt that tan 90 degree= infinity :(
 
what I said is too formal
@Abcd that is a misconception
@Abcd are you interested in the other discussion why 0/0 is undefined
 
@LeakyNun OH :( !
@LeakyNun Maybe later....
 
so what is your next question?
 
what is infinity?
 
do you know what limit is?
 
6:52 PM
No.
 
alright
firstly, infinity is not a real number. do you agree?
 
No.
 
wonderful
 
sarcastic?
 
informally, real number is any number on the number line
e.g. 0 is a real number
1 is a real number
22/7 is a real number
π = 3.14159... is a real number
any real number can be expressed in decimal
@Abcd yes
 
6:54 PM
ok
understood.
Next...
 
can infinity be expressed in decimal?
 
no
 
so infinity is not a "real number"
 
ok
 
Just got 6 different Google docs invites through gmail
 
6:54 PM
note that "real number" is a formal term.
 
yes.
 
when people talk about "infinity", they are not actually referring to a number
 
the majority of which are from former students of mine, all of which include a scrubbed "sent to" line
 
let's discuss the following two instances of "infinity"
 
ok
 
6:55 PM
and none of which have any accompanying description.
 
1. when x -> infinity, 1/x -> 0.
2. when x -> 0, 1/x^2 -> infinity.
 
methinks there's a gmail phishing attack going through campus...
 
what does this mean ->
 
tends to, approaches, goes to, etc.
 
ok
 
6:57 PM
so in 1), it means that when x gets bigger and bigger, 1/x gets closer and closer to 0
 
ok
 
2) means that when x gets closer and closer to 0, 1/x^2 gets bigger and bigger
 
ok
 
one can see that in both instances, "infinity" is not an actual number being referred to
 
yes,
 
6:58 PM
so do you have any further questions?
 
nope.
 
then I'll go now
 
ok TY.
 
@Alessandro: Or you can do it classically where the partial derivatives are continuous. You can play games by puncturing your space where the singularities are and then arguing convergence of the integrals.
 
hi all.
I am new in Mathematics forum.
Do I have to learn how to make those maths symbols before I post?
Like this question:
 
7:10 PM
@Balarka, @Danu, @MikeM: I see (approximately) why the fiber is torsion in the unit circle bundle. Take a generic vector field with (nondegenerate) zeroes at $p_i$. Take out little disks around $p_i$. Normalizing the vector field gives a section and hence a $2$-chain except over those little disks, and presumably the boundary of this $2$-chain is the sum of the indices times the fiber.
 
@TedShifrin It's all continuous here
 
How do users here draw those maths symbols in that question?
 
Including the derivatives, @Alessandro? Then it's just classic Riemann integral stuff. Are you trying to prove the legitimacy of differentiation under the integral? If so, I can give you my exercise on that from my book :)
 
Could someone just help me please?
 
I was looking for the link. No need to be impatient. Try this.
 
7:12 PM
What tools do I have to install first?
 
Nothing. To see stuff in the chat, you need to click on the LaTeX in chat link over there >>>>>^^^^^^
 
Ah, no wait, I don't know about the derivatives, the prof did need to prove that they are bounded by something summable
 
OK, so he's using the Lebesgue result. That's true.
It's just dominated convergence and mean value theorem, basically.
 
Hi Ted. Were you talking to me?
 
I'm sure you can find the result (if not in a real analysis textbook, by googling).
Yes, @kitty.
 
7:14 PM
What did you mean by " click on the LaTeX in chat link over there"
 
Stuff in the room description
 
I couldn't see any link
 
Are you on mobile or on a laptop/desktop?
 
Are you on mobile?
 
I am using Windows 7 at home
Desktop
 
7:14 PM
Then look at the right of your screen under Mathematics.
 
Ah ha I saw this:
Chat guidelines: tinyurl.com/hzl2955 | $\LaTeX$ in chat: tinyurl.com/cfqcvpc
 
Thanks, DogAteMy. And see the link above on the tutorial on how to do LaTeX/MathJax.
Well, click on the thing after the colon.
OK, I need to go eat lunch. Bye, all.
 
buon appetito @Ted
 
The link brought me to another post
100
Q: Main Chatroom Guidelines

robjohnWelcome. Hello friends. My online handle is anon, and I will be your guide. Associated with the Mathematics StackExchange is the main chatroom. I am chatroom co-owner alongside current moderator robjohn. The main room is general purpose; on the one hand it can be used for mathematical discussion...

So I guess I have to read through the guideline in the post first, right?
 
7:18 PM
Bon appétit @Ted
 
Thank you Ted Shifrin! Thank you for your help!
Bye!
 
@kitty That's a good idea. But we were talking about the second link.
 
Hey chat, so I have 8 working hours to give a graduate combinatorics talk (or else cancel our last seminar meeting). I've never done a talk on that short notice before... any suggestions for budgeting time?
 
Can anybody tell me how to publish our papers
 
@TedShifrin That's actually exactly the construction Mike was giving.
The boundaries don't match up because those boundary circles are vertical along the fiber.
 
7:34 PM
Start with the arxiv, @Angad?
 
7:49 PM
I thought he was using the 1-skeleton somehow, but anyhow ....
 
@TedShifrin What you gave is a tubular neighborhood of the 1-skeleton.
 
But a section, not a product with the fiber!
 
@Ted I mean to say, why can you give a section outside those little disks about $p_i$? Precisely because the unit tangent bundle is trivial on the 1-skeleton.
If you delete those disks that defo retrs to the 1-skeleton of the surface.
 
I get it. I just thought Mike was taking the product with the whole fiber.
 
Alrighty. I like your picture anyhow.
Fun problem, all in all.
I decided to not do the $d_2$ computation in the middle of the night. I'll perhaps try it out tomorrow and inform you accordingly. Maybe I'll understand Lie groups better tonight instead :)
 

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