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6:00 PM
hi Karim
and Huy and Balarka
 
Hello
 
I have been reading in English about Hemingway way moveable feast really weird guy this Hemingway
but I guess smart in a way
 
Quick analysis question that is just killing me, if we know that $\lbrace f_n \rbrace$ converges to $f$ with respect to the $L^p(E)$ norm, does this mean that $f$ is in $L^p(E)$ or that the sequence itself is in $L^p(E)$?
 
I took a whole course on Hemingway and Fitzgerald ... I loved reading their stuff.
 
oh cool
 
6:01 PM
Hi @TedShifrin
@L33ter How's topology?
 
Yeah his character is certainly interesting
@BalarkaSen it is moving fast I am already on singular homology
my prof would like me to read characteristic classes, which I think I am not ready for
 
Hemingway? Ernest Hemingway?
 
yeah @BalarkaSen
 
@L33ter Yes, you're not.
 
No, total nuts, Karim; I've told you. I teach very fast, but even for me this is going too fast.
All of those, @Prototank.
 
6:02 PM
@L33ter @TedShifrin I am a fan of Old Man and The Sea.
@TedShifrin Yeah, his professor is nuts.
The students wouldn't get much out of this course except catchwords, me thinks.
 
you should read moveable feast
 
Karim: Even if you were a genius, this is too fast.
 
yeah
I think so 2
 
It took me 6 months to study chapter 0, 1. Also, I didn't understand any of chapter 2 when I first began reading.
 
and you know I have been only studying topology those days and neglecting other subjects[
 
6:04 PM
Well, the material of 0, 1 at least.
 
Working Hatcher's exercises takes weeks.
 
because my professor expects from me a lot, so I can't be doing that.
 
You'll recall that I tried to discourage you from this, Karim ...
 
yeah ...
professors are crazy sometimes
 
Karim, he's not even lecturing, right? You're supposed to read and understand it on your own, and then do exercises to present to him?
 
6:05 PM
yeah
 
WAY too fast.
 
and explain to him what I read and do problems
I meet with 3 of his grad students
to explain to me some stuff
 
@Ted: So the curvature form on $\Bbb P^n$ is the same as the Kahler form. Is there some more general situation that recovers this, or is this just part of the magic of projective space?
 
I would love something like this but if I was only doing topology this semester
but I am taking 4 other courses
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: I know exactly what it looks like but I can't write it down
 
6:06 PM
and it is my last semester
 
Slow down, @MikeM.
 
Thanks @TedShifrin ! It was a little detail that was keeping me from finishing this exercise...
 
@TedShifrin You know anything about Goersky-MacPherson type topology?
 
Intersection homology, Balarka. Yes, I used to know a reasonable amount. But that was 25 years ago.
 
It looks fun, prof said that's what I should be aiming for next year. I dunno, I have a lot to study.
 
6:06 PM
No problem, @Prototank. Good luck :)
 
Cool, @Ted.
 
@Ted: Yes, duh, thanks.
 
Btw @TedShifrin I got accepted in University of Alberta
 
@Balarka: You absolutely need to learn differential topology stuff first.
 
I am still waiting for Toronto,waterloo,UBC
 
6:07 PM
@MikeM: Curvature of what?
You mean the tangent bundle?
 
I figured.
 
I got also funding of 20 k per year
 
Fantastic for you, Karim!
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: wait a second...
 
@Huy Want some help?
 
6:07 PM
I hope Toronto replies soon, because Alberta has wonderful professors
 
@Ted: The reason I had to slow down is that I meant the tangent bundle, but the proof I just read was about the hyperplane bundle.
 
That's why I wanted to slow down, @MikeM.
Yes, the 1st Chern class of the hyperplane bundle is the (positive) generator of $H^2$.
 
@Ted: Then the appropriate question is "When does there exist a line bundle whose curvature form is the Kahler form?" And the answer is of course always.
 
The tangent bundle has a coefficient of $-(n+1)$.
 
I am gonna focus on my other classes though this semester I can't be only doing topology or else my GPA will drop.
 
6:09 PM
Yes, I agree.
 
@L33ter So, what have you learnt to compute so far?
 
projective plane
 
Your question is also related to the definition of Kähler-Einstein metrics, @MikeM.
 
and
torus
and
 
Singular homology of projective plane? Or simplicial?
 
6:10 PM
many shapes @BalarkaSen
 
Karim: In some sense, your GPA no longer matters so much, but still your professor is nuts.
 
@Ted: Yeah, I see the relation.
 
:) @MikeM
 
simplicial and I had to check it is a delta complex first and also give some stuff that are not delta complexes
I learned about CW complex
 
Simplicial is peasy.
Singular is harder. You need machineries.
 
Huy
6:11 PM
@BalarkaSen: the homotopy is between $\gamma$ and $p \cdot \gamma' \cdot p^{-1}$ is $p \cdot \gamma_t \cdot p^{-1}$, right?
 
and also I learned about cohomology "fast" his grad student explain the idea to me I haven't digged into machineries yet
I also looked at things you can do with operations you can do with cells
 
Be careful! Do you really mean $p$ there or do you mean $p|_{[0, t]}$?
 
now I understood what you meant when you were talking about smash products
 
@L33ter Can you tell me what a singular cycle on a topological space is? Can you tell me how you visualize it?
This is arguably the single most important question in chapter 2.1.
 
Does anyone know a good book on set theory?
 
6:13 PM
@Balarka: I didn't read your email too carefully, but of course you haven't got to the interesting part of that problem yet. Also, look at the theoretical ("challenge") problems.
@Michael: I'm not so fond of this stuff, but you might look at Halmos's Naive Set Theory. He writes well.
 
yeah, so a cycle geometrically is just a path that enters the vertex the same time as it leaves it
 
@TedShifrin Right. I will dig more after 9th, when my exams are over. Your problem on configuration space is nice. I have no idea what the dimension should be, at first sight.
@L33ter This is not right.
 
@Balarka: Count degrees of freedom :P
 
wait I haven't explained the full detail yet
 
Ok, what I meant was, I have no idea how the manifold should look like. Not that I have counted degrees of freedom, but that's approximately how I thought about doing it.
 
6:16 PM
So, let us say we have a cycle that first encircles a hole
 
@Balarka: What the manifold is is an interesting question. Is it compact?
 
let us call this cycle a + b + c
 
I will think about it seriously after 9th, instead of talking about doing it. :)
@TedShifrin Hmm.
 
Fair enough, @Balarka.
 
@L33ter Cycle of what dimension?
 
6:17 PM
let us say a 1 cell cycle
 
I have no idea what a 1-cell cycle is.
1 dimensional cycles are easy to visualize, but still worth thinking about.
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: I mean $H(s,t) = p(t) \cdot \gamma_s(t) \cdot p^{-1}(t)$
 
yeah
 
Huy
does that make sense?
 
the fundmental group is not abelian and it depends on a base point
 
6:18 PM
Fun to see @Balarka on the hot seat for a change :D
 
but homology is abelian construction
so it doesn't depend on base point
let us say we have 1 dimension cycle
 
I don't see why there's a so there.
 
that didn't encircles anything
so let us say it goes around some vertex x
with edges a and b oriented as a + b
this is a - b
 
@Huy I think you have a wrong homotopy up there. $p$ and $\gamma_t$ do not have the same endpoints. You want $p(ts) \cdot \gamma_t(s) \cdot \bar{p}(ts)$ not?
 
but suppose b is oriented the other way
 
6:21 PM
@L33ter Sorry, you're still just talking about a simplicial cycle.
 
Silly question, but is codomain similar to the range of the function? Is it like the set to which all outputs of a function fall?
 
Hatcher, on his introduction, just talks about simplicial cycle and give some vague ideas about basepoints. I want to know how a singular cycle looks like and make the vagueness precise and make you prove the Hurewicz's theorem.
 
@Michael: Codomain is where all the values live. The word "range" is used to have two different meanings. Some people mean codomain; other people mean what I call "image," the set of all the actual values of the function.
 
@TedShifrin I do believe it's compact.
 
@I'manartist those are $\left(x\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}x}\right)^{-n}$ applied to $\frac{1-\sqrt{1-x}}{\sqrt{1-x}}$.
 
6:23 PM
@Michael: For example, if $f(x)=x^2$, mapping real numbers to real numbers, the codomain (or range) is the set of real numbers, but the set of values is only ...
@Balarka: Well, if it's compact, are you sure it's actually a manifold, then?
hi @robjohn
 
Yeah, good question :D I don't know.
 
@BalarkaSen I am still learning about singular homology
 
Yeah, but you do know what a singular cycle is, don't you?
 
Some books on mathematical logic & set theory I liked were Enderton's books. (The second has a cute title: "Elements of set theory".)
 
I thought singular cycle is related to cycle of simplicial homology
no I don't
what is that
 
6:24 PM
@TedShifrin Hey, Ted! How are things?
 
Yeah, Enderton was the book the undergraduate course on logic used when I was in college, if I remember correctly.
 
@L33ter I don't know how you can know what singular homology is without knowing what singular cycle is. Tell me the definition of singular homology in brief.
 
Less windy, @robjohn, now back to summer weather :D As I messaged you a while ago, headed up to LA in about 3 weeks.
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: right, that's what I want. just wasn't able to write it down -.-
 
$\textstyle \mathbb{R}^+_0:$ what does this mean?
 
6:25 PM
I found it a good read. I still remember the meeting I had with the faculty member running the course where I was baffled about the idea of "induction over the length of a string".
 
@Michael: Ask your author :) Possibly the set of nonnegative real numbers (positive together with $0$).
 
@Huy Phew! :) You're done.
You just proved that forgetting basept $\pi_1(X, x_0) \to [S^1, X]$ gives a bijection between conjugacy classes and free htpy classes.
 
@TedShifrin Okay last question. What does it mean if f does not map onto any negative number
 
I don't know singular homology yet which is why I said I am still learning about it
@BalarkaSen
 
@Ted: What was the problem?
 
6:27 PM
I told you so far I learned CW complexes, operations with CW complexes, simplicial homology and computing the homology groups of some spaces
 
Oh, OK. You said you were onto singular homology, so that's why I thought you were there.
 
Huy
@BalarkaSen: is there a way to put a group structure on $[S^1,X]$ too?
 
and I had an idea about cohomology from his grad student
just an idea though
not full picture
he told me that cohomology go the other directions
 
@Huy: It has the structure of an H-space, not a topological group. It's homotopy equivalent to a topological group.
 
For example we know homology is defined as Ker(A_n)/Im(A_{n + 1})
so we have bunch of sequences
C_{n + 1} --> C_n --> ... --> C_1 --> C_0
where Hn = Ker(A_n) / Im(A_{n + 1}) where A_n is the boundary homorphism
so what is C_i
C_i is the free abelian group with some generators
I didn't learn about free abelian group in my algebra class but my topology prof explained it to me
 
6:31 PM
@Michael: What do you mean? What does it mean about what?
 
free groups I mean
 
@MikeM: You mean the problem Balarka's talking about?
 
@TedShifrin Oh sorry my question was bland. I figured it out, Wikipedia is infact very helpful :)
 
so cohomology will go the other directions instead from C_{n + 1} --> C_n it goes the other way
 
One of my homework questions in my multivariable course — the configuration space of 4 rods of fixed lengths all attached to form a (topological) circle.
 
6:32 PM
He also mentioned that we could even generalize by not even ending at C_0
 
Oh, in the plane.
 
@BalarkaSen
 
@Michael: Okey dokey.
 
@L33ter Well, that is an algebraic definition. I was hoping to make you visualize this.
 
I can visualize this why this is true as well
 
6:32 PM
Why is what true?
 
so homology computes the "holes" a space have intuitivelly
 
@TedShifrin Plus, two of the rods are based at $(0, 0)$.
 
we can capture the holes by computing where by the cycles of a space and we mod out by the amount of a filling a space has for each particular cycle.
 
@Balarka: Yes. Otherwise we could add translations to the picture.
 
Right.
 
6:34 PM
so the Im thing it captures the amount of filling a space has for each particular cycle
 
@Ted: Ah, cool. We just had a talk a few weeks ago about the configuration spaces of mechanical linkages.
 
or I guess one way to put it better it captures the filling for each particular generator of the kernel
 
@MikeM: It was a (nontrivial) application of the implicit function theorem set-up for manifolds for my students.
 
Cool.
 
@L33ter I don't understand what you said, but OK.
@TedShifrin It's a cool problem. Alas, I still have 2 exams left, and one of them is math. :S
 
6:36 PM
There are actually a number of cool (and challenging) problems in the remainder of the course.
 
@BalarkaSen can we discuss this later today at night
do you have time ?
 
Speaking of configuration spaces, given a space $X$, one can consider $SX = (X \times X \setminus \Delta)/(\Bbb Z/2)$. This is called the deleted square (or maybe deleted square configuration space, I forget).
 
I want to go read stuff for English
 
The symmetric product, @MikeM, missing the diagonal.
 
So, question: What does the homotopy type of $SX$ tell you about $X$?
 
6:38 PM
@TedShifrin let me know your travel plans in LA. Hopefully, we can get together. It is still windy in LA and it is supposed to get to 79° today, and 86° later this week.
 
I know configuration spaces in my physics class
configuration space is where the lagrangian mechanics live
in
 
@L33ter Sorry, I don't think I can spare time today. How about after 9th?
 
@robjohn: I will drive up Thursday, leave Sunday. Busy every evening. As of now, having lunch at Google on Friday with a former student.
 
ok good @BalarkaSen
when are you finishing your exams ?
 
9th :D
 
6:39 PM
That's a different configuration space, Karim. That's the cotangent or tangent bundle, I think.
 
I have to go. See you all later.
 
@MikeM: Missing the diagonal makes that non-obvious to me.
Bubye, @Balarka.
 
yeah I will cya guys 2 I gotta go do english
brb
 
@Ted: Right, if you had the diagonal it would be a homotopy invariant of $X$.
 
@TedShifrin So that would be 25 Feb?
 
6:40 PM
Yes, @robjohn.
 
Some people are thinking about this, in particular for $X=L(p,q)$. It's known that the homotopy type of $SX$ tells apart eg $L(7,1)$ and $L(7,2)$, which are homotopy equivalent but not homeomorphic.
I'm not sure which I'd prefer: That this recovers the homeomorphism type of $L(p,q)$ or that it doesn't.
 
@TedShifrin we'll have to see if you are free during the day, then.
 
@robjohn: Could probably do something before or after lunch on Friday if you're around.
 
@TedShifrin I don't have anything planned, yet.
 
But often you're not in town, so I don't want to make you do any special trips. Of course, parking is a bitch everywhere :(
 
6:47 PM
Hey guys... Need some help... How do I prove (using induction) that |sin nx| <= n|sin x| for all natural numbers n?
 
Can you do the case for $n=2$, @ambigram?
 
I get 2sin X cos X on LHS and 2sin X in RHS (with abs of course)
 
@TedShifrin Induction has 4 steps, right?
 
OK, @ambigram, so why is $|2\sin x\cos x|\le 2|\sin x|$?
I don't know, @Michael. To me, there are two basic steps, plus a final sentence saying we're done :P
 
Well, cos X <= 1... I get it
 
6:55 PM
hi @Forever
 
But for the next part?
 
helloo
 
OK, @ambigram. Now how should we do the inductive step (assuming it holds for $k$, prove it for $k+1$)?
How could you think of writing $\sin\big((k+1)x\big)$?
 
That's where I'm stuck
Separating it?
 
Tell me what you're thinking.
 
6:56 PM
(I'm on my phone now... Can't see the latex)
 
Oh, chat on the phone sucks.
 
On a separate app... Makes it bearable
 
So what do you mean by separating (k+1)x?
 
I'll sperate it using the sin a+b formula?
 
Yes. Then you'll get it. Perfect.
Remember that you get to use $|\sin(kx)|\le k|\sin x|$ :)
 
6:58 PM
(Note to self... Brush up on raw latex)
 
$cos^2 x$-$sin^2x$=0. Is there a quick way to solve this?
 
Try in terms of tan
Then use general formula
 
OH got it. Haha I am too lazy today :P
I just used the identity $-\cos ^2\left(x\right)+\sin ^2\left(x\right)=-\cos \left(2x\right)$
 
Wait... Was x in the exponent of sin?
 
nope
I just had a brain fart that's all
 
7:05 PM
Then the tan method should work
I'm getting tan X = 1 or -1
 
@TedShifrin I am confused on the concepts of "surjective" and "injective"
 
Oh! Oh! Count me in!!
 
@robjohn They can be done by using beta function.
 
@Michael: How 'bout "onto" and "one-to-one"?
 
@robjohn I got such an awesome result today! I'm turning now into a proposed problem. The amazing thing (and this is amazing in every way) is that one can finish the proof on half a page. It's beyond mind blowing.
 
7:08 PM
@TedShifrin the book gives those definitions too, but I was never taught what a map is....
 
map = function
 
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
injective means that the function takes on each value at most one time; surjective means that the function takes on each value at least one time (i.e., every value is hit by the function).
 
@TedShifrin Man you are amazing. Thank you :)
I get it
 
LOL. You're welcome.
 
7:10 PM
I meant I'm turning it now into a proposed problem.
 
Well that's embarrassing... I'm still stuck starting like an idiot at "|sin mx.cos X + cos mx.sin x|"
 
Well, break it up and use inequalities on each piece, @ambigram.
 
(I'm very poor are trigonometry)
 
You don't need any trigonometry. Remember that your induction assumption tells you something about sin mx.
 
Well... If I take sin x common... What do I get?
cos X + cos mx
 
7:14 PM
Remember that earlier you knew that $|\cos u|\le 1$ no matter what.
 
But now you get to use $|\sin mx|\le m|\sin x|$.
 
@TedShifrin would F: R---->R+ be like saying the domain is R and the codomain is R+ for F?
 
mcos X + cos mx
 
7:16 PM
precisely, @Michael. You should learn to do that in LaTeX :)
@ambigram: You need to use the triangle inequality with absolute values.
 
@TedShifrin Ok I'll go spend some time on it right now
 
Which is? (Link please)
 
You sigh too much. Google it.
 
OK Google...
 
7:19 PM
$\Bbb R \to \Bbb R$
oh my god it works
 
and the function mapping arrow is \to
 
so what is $\Bbb R^m$
 
$m$-dimensional space
 
What is the difference between $m$ dimensional space and $n$ dimensional space
 
you can watch my first multivariable video for the beginnings of linear algebra stuff.
 
7:22 PM
You have a video ?!
Ill watch it for sure
 
112 of 'em.
 
Oh God bless. Where are they
 
linked in my profile
linear algebra/multivariable calculus course, integrated stuff, with lots of proofs and hard examples
 
Well I guess I know what I am doing for the next 112*50 minutes of my life
 
LOL ... hardly
 
7:26 PM
Wait I thought you taught graduate level classes
 
mostly undergrad, but retired now
 
How big are university classes for math
 
Maybe I should make a competing series @Ted
 
depends on the univ and the class ... mine were 20-30 for this particular class
if you can do better, Mike, by all means do :)
 
I thought the derivative function gave an exact value for the rate of change at a given point on a differentiable function
 
7:28 PM
so?
 
Hm, I just got a ping that immediately went away
 
You said the tangent line was the best linear approximation
 
yup
 
Linear approximation. So are there other types of approximations?
 
Watched a bit of the first lecture of Ted on YouTube now as it was mentioned. He used the "best linear approximation"-explanation for derivatives, so I'm a fan.
 
7:30 PM
see Taylor polynomials
 
Are they exact?
 
well, that's why we want to understand linear alg to do calculus :)
 
@Ted: I'm not getting a lot out of the G&H proof of Kodaira vanishing (or anything they do that invokes formulas with the Lefschetz operator or its adjoint...) Are there alternate proofs?
 
Don't know, Mike.
Look at deMailly or another new text.
 
@AndrewT: Well, everyone knows the derivative of a real-valued function f in a domain D is the Lagrangian section of the cotangent bundle T*(D) that gives the connection form for the unique flat connection on the trivial R-bundle DxR for which the graph of f is parallel.
 
7:33 PM
or Morrow-Kodaira ... I think that has Kodaira's original.
Thurston's defns :)
 
@Ted: Ok, will do. Do you have a good reason I should believe it?
 
Hahah, yes.
 
Not at this moment, Mike.
 
Fair enough.
 
Hmm... bundle sounds like an unpleasant idea
 
7:35 PM
Does anyone know how mathematicians in general feel about the views of Hardy in mathematician's apology?
 
Hi, can I ask you a question related to real analysis right now? @TedShifrin
 
Those being? I've forgotten.
 
He seems to make mathematics as a community more elitistic than I'd like it to be.
Essentially "most people suck at everything, so if you have a talent for math you should go for it."
 
In general I think you'll have a tough time getting mathematicians in general to agree on anything.
 
go ahead
 
7:36 PM
Of course my wording is extremely biased.
 
How do we use the fact that a function is injective to prove that $f(C \cap D) = f(C) \cap f(D)$ where $C$ and $D$ belong to $A$ which is the domain of the function.
since it's only injective I can't use the inverse of the function right?
 
Prove inclusions both ways, Paradox.
 
The high school curriculum for math is actually terrible. I am slowly realizing it. We spent all this time learning practical application problems like $5x+3=8$ instead of doing problems that really taught us how to think
 
But you still need basic skills mastered.
 
There's a fine line. Its worrisome that many students graduate high school with good grades, but would likely be stumped if asked to define what a function is.
 
7:48 PM
yes but how do I go about it? I mean if for example while trying to prove that $f(C \cap D)$ is contained in $f(C) \cap f(D)$, if I say that $x \belongs to C \cap D$ then is it sensible to assume that $f(x) \belongs to C \cap D$? @TedShifrin
 
you don't mean that
 
Me or Paradox?
 
Paradox
 
@AndrewThompson Honestly we should be failing more people in the US. I see a lot of upper-div students who should still be in calc
 
@MikeMiller Currently TAing algebra, would say that is the case in Norway as well.
 

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