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4:38 PM
@PaulPlummer Nah, contest math is too boring and point-set topology is too analysis-ish. I'm just studying algebra for now. I've finished the first three sections of the rings chapter, but I've now doubled back and started working through the rest of the problems in the groups chapter (as well as from Artin, because the prof said to).
I actually got interested in algebraic geometry. dodges kicks from Balarka
 
@SohamChowdhury Well, algebraic geometry is good stuff :)
It's just way too hard.
 
Of course it is.
Well, considering my early fascination with -- don't wrinkle your noses -- how you could say stuff about the shape of a conic just by looking at the equation, it makes sense.
 
I learnt proof of Godel's theorem yesterday. Totally a fan of mathematical logic now.
 
And I can just focus on algebra now.
Yeah, that, uncountability of the reals, V - E + F = 2, friendship theorem / bridges of Koenigsberg and $\zeta(2)$ sold me on math. :)
 
You know the proof of Godel's theorem?
 
4:43 PM
It's a beautiful proof, yes.
 
Cool.
 
I learned it from Goedel, Escher, Bach. It is the most brilliant book I've ever read.
 
oh. I read an expository, actually.
I even briefed it.
 
@columbus8myhw An isolated point does not need either successors, or predecessors. For example $(\mathbb{R} \setminus [-1,1] ) \cup \{0\}$, has $0$ as an isolated point, but it has no successor or predecessor. But isolated points can have both, think of the integers. I don't think your last statement about only be homeomorphic to either of those is true. For example $\mathbb{Q} \setminus [-1,1]$, is not homeomorphic to wither of those. $\mathbb{Q}$ is the unique dense, countable, linear order
 
A logician, an artist who worked with hyperbolic stuff and the composer of probably the most intricate Baroque-era music ever.
 
4:44 PM
without endpoints
 
It has a lot of stuff about first-order logic, iirc.
e.g. how do you write the statement "$x$ is a power of 2" in the logical language given in the book? (quite easy)
 
The whole point is to reduce it to a version of Liar's paradox.
 
ultra-hard: replace 2 with 10.
 
The way he does it is amazing.
 
yes, I told you I know it. :P
 
4:46 PM
Stopped contest math? Algebra is fun. @SohamChowdhury
 
it took me a few days to come to terms with the fact that one man could be that clever.
 
I am just being super-excited.
 
I'm in love with algebra, @PaulP.
It's good to be excited, Balarka. You are still young.
I shall never forget the days when I was fifteen like you.
 
What are you up to now, mathematically. Learning logic? @BalarkaSen
 
However, I did a sin too. Read up a bit on dependent type theory, and it's categorification.
 
4:47 PM
You know where I learned about dependent types?
 
Homotopy type theory is great.
@SohamChowdhury Haskell?
 
Idris.
Haskell has no dependent types.
Just plain sums, products, exponents.
 
@PaulPlummer Nah. I discussed Godel with Karl and Mike a few days ago. Dunno what I had in mind -- just went ahead and read the whole proof up.
These are all side-readings. Ways to waste as much as time as possible in the pressure of an incoming exam.
 
For instance, how do you create a function that takes in two vectors of the same length?
You could, of course, take in two vectors and blow the world up if they differed in length. But that's inelegant.
In Idris, there's a vector type parametrized by the length.
Genius!
 
A theory is a bunch of axioms inside an ambient space of a deductive system, so it has two "layers". From what I understand of type theory, it's something that puts the two layers on an equal footing.
 
4:53 PM
Yes. In programming, usually the type system (which says what functions are allowed to take and what they're allowed to spit out) is subordinate to the rest of the guts. In a proper functional programming language, they're equal.
 
For example, it's known that a intuitionistic propositional calculus is the same as a cartesian closed category. now, an intuitionistic prop. calculus can be completely described in terms of dependent type theory. and dependent type theory in turn is an internal language for locally cartesian closed categories.
 
Haskell uses Martin-Loef type theory btw.
Balarka appears to be taking up a permanent residence at the nLab
 
so it's something the lies "in the middle" of the two theories : categorical logic, and mathematical logic. seems like exactly the thing that can unify a lot of mathematical ideas.
@SohamChowdhury ah.
 
You've heard of it?
 
yes.
 
4:55 PM
From the Idris page:
>Compiler-supported interactive editing: the compiler helps you write code using the types
 
I had a professor that worked on New Foundations, and NFU (a type theory). It sounds sort of interesting, for example (unless I am misremembering) it does not really have problems with talking about the whole universe, and powersets of the universe.
 
Imagine math done like that. Qiaochu once wrote a post on something similar.
@PaulPlummer Quine's?
 
The geometric series thing, particularly, is funny.
 
The cool thing about dependent type theory is that there is a thing called type of all types. That's exactly like the subobject classifier in a topos!
(don't really know what I am saying here)
 
4:57 PM
Yes, we call a similar equivalent $\sf Hask$.
Read the post, Balarka.
No code in it at all. :)
 
Well I got to go
 
Toodles.
 
@Huy: So I take it you solved the problem?
 
@SohamChowdhury Let me look there.
 
Why do some people have this when you hover over their name with the mouse and others don't?
 
5:02 PM
@SohamChowdhury nah. as I said, this is just side-reading.
 
logic and whatnot. click at the grey arrow.
 
oops
enjoy the article.
 
seems nice. but right at this moment, I'd like to read more on the categorical perspectives of type theory, which that article doesn't talk about. maybe I'll read this one later.
 
have you looked at the entire thing?
he talks about sum and product types and how they are like products and coproducts.
 
5:09 PM
that's just a single analogy.
 
no
that's like the definition, almost.
 
there are deeper interpretations out there, like the thing i said about the type of all types.
i'd like to read more on those.
 
oh, ok.
have fun!
 
d'you know of a good article/paper/anything?
 
Huy
5:22 PM
@MikeMiller: I don't remember what it was, I'll ping you when I do.
 
@BalarkaSen you interested in combi stuff?
 
5:47 PM
Is every field extension a quotient by a maximal ideal of a localization of the polynomial ring?
 
Hi Everybody!
My question is put on hold , for no apparent reason !
0
Q: Any hint on : Every $A_{n}$ elemnt is $n$-cycles product.

pigeon[Added explanation] I found this exercise as follows in Hungerford : Abstract algebra (3rd edition) page 236, exercise number 40. Stated as follows : C.40. Prove that every element of $A_{n}$ is a product of $n$-cycles. $n$-cycle is explained in the book like the permutation : $(1 2 3 4 .....

can anyone tell me what is wrong with my question ?
 
It doesn't make sense, because $A_n$ has no $n$-cycles for $n$ even. See Derek Holt's comment.
 
well (1234)(1234) is a product of 4-cycles and is indeed in S4 , even though (1234) is not. (1234)(1234) = (13)(24).
Can you tell more about it ?!
 
Sure. I'm explaining why people voted to close it. That comment was not in the original question.
 
Well i added it there, but the question is well self explained ,as question.
 
5:54 PM
Five people did not agree. I have no opinion either way on your question. If you want it to be reopened, I suggest properly capitalizing and punctuating your question, as well as moving some version of that comment into the question itself.
I do not think most people read comments to questions if the question itself doesn't grip them.
 
Thank for your advice , i am heading there ..
 
@BalarkaSen apart from the One True HoTT book, no.
good night, btw.
 
@Soham You know Godels incompleteness theorems ?
I have always wanted to read them
 
Hello
 
6:31 PM
hello
 
6:50 PM
How would you split $\frac{12x+18}{(x+3)(2x^{2}+8x+9)}$ into partial fractions?
I did: $\frac{A}{x+3}+\frac{Bx+C}{2x^{2}+8x+9}$
Why? Because the quadratic had no real roots.
Then:
$12x+18 = A(2x^{2}+8x+9) + (Bx+C)(x+3)$
If $x = -3$, then: $12(-3)+18 = A(2(-3)^{2}+8(-3)+9) + (B(-3)x+C)((-3)+3)$
-18 = 3A
A = -6
Now, to find C:
If $x = 0$, then: $12(0)+18 = (-6)(2(0)^{2}+8(0)+9) + (B(0)+C)(0+3)$
Which is: 18 = (-6)(9) + (C)(3)
Which is: 72 = 3C
So, C = 24
Now, to find B:
If $x = 1$, 12(1)+18 = (-6)(2(1)^{2} + 8(1) + 9) + (B(1)+(24))((1)+3)$
Which is: $30 = -114 + 4B + 96$
Which is: $144 = 4B + 96$, $48 = 4B$, $B = 12$
The Integral is now: $-6\int{\frac{1}{x+3}}dx + \int{\frac{12x+24}{2x^{2}+8x+9}}dx$
The first integral is easy, it becomes $-6 ln\lvert{x+3}\rvert$
The second
$u = 2x^{2}+8x+9$, so $du = 4x+8 dx$, or $dx = \frac{du}{2(x+4)}$
 
7:13 PM
If you already know how to evaluate the integral, why are posting it up on here?
I'm confused. What's there to gain?
 
What did you guys do to her?
 
I actually realized halfway though that I had got something else when writing it here..
Since nobody was around, I thought I'd finish
:(
(I solved it!) I think
 
Oh, gotcha. No no, don't mind me. I was just puzzled :-)
(Do to whom, @MickLH?)
 
It's been 3 months....
@Khallil that cute girl I talked to here, who disappeared several months ago
 
There are girls on the internet?
 
7:15 PM
Apparently transiently
 
$\int{\frac{12x+24}{2x^{2}+8x+9}dx}$ becomes $\int{\frac{12x+24}{u}*\frac{du}{4(x+2)}}$, which I can then simplify to $\int{\frac{12(x+2)}{u * 4(x+2)}*du}$. This makes it $3\int{\frac{1}{u}*du}$, which is $3ln|2x^{2}+8x+9|$
 
@Owatch $$ \int \dfrac{12x+18}{(x+3)(2x^2+8x+9)} \text{ d}x = \int \dfrac{3(4x+8)}{2x^2 + 8x + 9} \text{ d}x - \int \dfrac{6}{x+3} \text{ d}x = 3\log|2x^2 + 8x + 9|-6\log|x+3| +\mathcal{C} $$
Exactly. Instead of going through the whole substitution procedure, it's easier to pull out certain factors to get the derivative multiplied by the function to whichever power it's raised to.
 
What
 
$$ n \neq -1 \implies \int \ f'(x) \left[ f(x) \right]^n \text{ d}x = \dfrac{\left[f(x)\right]^{n+1}}{n+1} + \mathcal{C} $$
In the case that $n=-1$, you'll have $\log|f(x)| + \mathcal{C}$, @Owatch.
@MickLH Don't worry. There are plenty of fish in the sea.
 
7:32 PM
You're referring to the larger derivative Integral.
But I guess I'm just confused by the equation you have there.
 
Yep, I was referring to the integral with the quadratic in the denominator after the partial fraction decomposition.
Your $f(x)$ would be the denominator, your $n$ would be $-1$, $f'(x)$ would be $4x+8$ and for aesthetic purposes, you could pull out the $3$.
 
Whee! I just got two badges for being here another year.
 
Hey guys, I have a simple notation question.
Suppose you have an n*n matrix A, and some n-dimensional vectors x_1, x_2, ..., x_n.
Is there an accepted way to write \sum A_{ij} x_i \cdot x_j?
Here, the \cdot denotes the dot product, and the sum is to be taken over all i, j = 1 to n.
 
7:48 PM
@DavidZhang $x^TAx$ perhaps?
 
I thought of that too, but I'm worried people might interpret that as a matrix product, where x would refer to the n*n matrix with x_i as its ith column.
 
@DavidZhang It is a matrix product with two vectors
$x^Ty$ is another way of writing the dot product (assuming column vectors)
 
That's true, but I wouldn't want people interpreting x^TAx as the product of three n*n matrices. I could, of course, write \sum x_i^T A_{ij} x_j, but somehow I'd like to suppress the indices altogether.
 
@DavidZhang Usually the matrices have uppercase letters and vectors have lower case letters.
 
Oh, perhaps I'm not making myself clear. What I intend is that x_1, x_2, ..., x_n are each an n-dimensional vector.
 
7:54 PM
If you state that $x$ is a vector and $A$ is a matrix, there should be no confusion.
@DavidZhang Ah, a sequence of vectors. Then you should leave the indices off of the matrix
 
Right. Each x_i is individually a vector with n components.
 
$$\sum_{i,j=1}^nx_i^TAx_j$$
of course the linear nature of things makes this the same as $$\left(\sum_{i=1}^nx_i\right)^TA\left(\sum_{i=1}^nx_i\right)$$
unless I am still not understanding
 
I don't think the expression you've got there is exactly what I mean, either. What I mean is the sum of the (i,j)th entry of A times the dot product of x_i and x_j, summed over i = 1 to n and j = 1 to n.
I don't believe this is the same thing as the sum of x_i^T A x_j over i = 1 to n and j = 1 to n.
Yeah, they're definitely not the same. If you take a simple example with n = 2, where A is the 2*2 identity matrix, x_1 = (1, 2), and x_2 = (3, 4), the expression you have is 52 while the expression I want equal to 30.
*is equal to
Hmm, I guess $\sum_{i,j=1}^n A_{ij} x_i \cdot x_j$ is probably the clearest way to write this, then.
 
8:14 PM
$$ \int \prod_{i=1}^{n-1} u_i \text{ d}u_n = \prod_{i=1}^{n} u_i - \sum_{k=1}^{n-1} \int \left( \prod_{i=1}^{n} u_i \right) \dfrac{1}{u_k} \text{ d}u_k $$
I found that this is supposedly derived with integration by parts.
I'm still trying to make sense of it. :-/
 
Hm. What are the u_i in your expression?
Are they all supposed to be independent variables?
 
What do you mean by independent variables, @DavidZhang?
 
The Portuguese Language at Stack Exchange is in Public Beta.
 
I need help with the following
math.uvic.ca/faculty/putnam/ln/C*-algebras.pdf
page 45
proposition 1.11.11
how come $\pi(A)E$ is in N ?
I don't understand
never mind I got it
 
user61230
8:33 PM
^ math in a nutshell
 
it is because we have since $\pi$ is a representation we have $\pi : A \rightarrow B(H)$ so $pi(A)N : N \righarrow N$ so thats the reason
and by the fact N is invariant subspace
 
 
1 hour later…
9:43 PM
Maybe it's of interest for you.
0
Q: Not the toughest integral, not the easiest one

Chris's sis the artistPerhaps it's not amongst the toughest integrals, but it's interesting to try to find an elegant approach for the integral $$I_1=\int_0^1 \frac{\log (x)}{\sqrt{x (x+1)}} \, dx$$ $$=4 \text{Li}_2\left(-\sqrt{2}\right)-4 \text{Li}_2\left(-1-\sqrt{2}\right)+2 \log ^2\left(1+\sqrt{2}\right)-4 \log \...

 
10:00 PM
@Chris'ssis, have you seen a generalisation of integration by parts before?
2 hours ago, by Khallil
$$ \int \prod_{i=1}^{n-1} u_i \text{ d}u_n = \prod_{i=1}^{n} u_i - \sum_{k=1}^{n-1} \int \left( \prod_{i=1}^{n} u_i \right) \dfrac{1}{u_k} \text{ d}u_k $$
I'm wondering if you have because I can't seem to make sense of the notation used.
 
@Khallil: usually, when i run into convoluted notation like that, i find it useful to try a few small $n$. for instance, $n=2$ (not one!) should give back the usual integration by parts.
 
@Khallil I was preparing to say what @Semiclassical said, to try small cases.
 
$$ n = 2 \implies \int \ u_1 \text{ d}u_2 = u_1 u_2 - \int u_2 \text{ d}u_1 $$
Oh!
Thanks, @Semiclassical and @Chris'ssis!
 
i imagine the underlying logic (for the $n=3$) is just that $$d(uvw)=(du) vw+u(dv)w+uv(dw)\implies uv \,dw=d(uvw)-v w \,du-u w\,dv$$
 
By the product rule on the left hand side?
 
10:07 PM
right
 
I'm impressed that the person who posted it (on another site) managed to get it in such a succinct form.
 
another, equivalent way to say it: if you move the integrals to the same side, it becomes $$\int\sum_{k=1}^n \left(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i\right)\frac{1}{u_k}du_k=\prod_{i=1}^n u_i$$
and so it requires that the LHS be just $\int d(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i)$, which amounts to the differential identity i alluded to earlier
 
That's pretty!
 
one last cute point: $$\begin{align}d(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i)&=\left(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i\right)\frac{d(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i)}{(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i)}\\&=\left(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i\right)d\log\left(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i\right)\\&=\left(\prod_{i=1}^n u_i\right)\sum_{i=1}^n \frac{du_k}{u_k}\end{align}$$
 
does anyone know how to justify formally that $\exists x (x + 1 + x = 3)$ follows from $1 + 1 + 1 = 3$?
 
10:20 PM
where in the last line i've used $\log(xy)=\log x+\log y$ and then differentiated the logs
 
I'm unsure of how you went from the first line to the second, @Semiclassical.
Oh wait, I got it.
 
$dF/F=d\log F$, yeah
 
That's so cool. I wouldn't have seen the first line straight away.
Dividing and multiplying by the same product seems like sorcery.
 
heh. it's just multiplication by 1
log-derivatives are a good trick in general, though
since they turn the product rule into something additive, i.e. $d(xy)/(xy)=d\log xy = d\log x+d\log y = dx/x+dy/y$
plus it's nice for proportionality relations: $y\propto x^2\implies d\log y = 2d\log x\implies \frac{dy}{y}=2\frac{dx}{x}$
i.e. $y$ varies quadratically with $x$ implies that changing $x$ by $p$% changes $y$ by $2p$%
okay, enough rambling about log-derivatives. later
 
10:37 PM
Thanks for the help, @Semiclassical!
I enjoyed the rambling :-P
 
10:49 PM
:D
 
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