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7:01 PM
@Owatch Do you have python ?
 
I am on a Macbook running OS X, so it has python 2.7x integrated I believe.
However, I also have a Windows computer with Python 3 if needed.
 
2.7
Can you install pygame ?
 
r9m
@robjohn yes :D
 
I think I can.
 
:D please do
 
7:03 PM
I think I also have python 2.7 on the windows machine, so I will do it there.
 
Oh, I am actually running Stackless Python. It will take me a moment to uninstall that. No big deal.
(It interferes)
 
ok tell me when you're done
 
I have installed 2.7
Now I need pygame
 
7:09 PM
I clicked finish
It is done
Does the pygame-1.9.1 win32 py2.7 msi install everything required?
 
I guess so
 
Ok. Then I guess I'm good?
 
Yep
@Owatch run that pastebin.com/gAN6fXBT
 
No module named matplotlib
Can that be removed?
 
lol remove line 3 I forgot to delete it
 
7:16 PM
Wasn't sure if you had more references to it. Done
 
So, does it work ?
 
No.
 
:( any error ?
 
As I expected, python is just going to throw errors for the next five hours while I try to figure out each import error.
 
there are only 3 imports though
 
7:19 PM
from pygame.base import *
ImportError: DLL load failed: %1 is not a valid Win32 Application
 
@r9m which text?
 
I didn't write that, must be a weird install of pygame. Try the link I posted above instead @Owatch
 
r9m
@robjohn Lewin's Book : Polylogarithms and associated Functions :)
 
@r9m Ah... I should look into that
 
@Hippalectryon Python 2,7 64bit I think
Let me try 32 bit
 
7:21 PM
Yeah, I had trouble with 64 too (even though I'm 64) and used 32 instead
 
r9m
@robjohn 6.4.4 on page 159 to be exact :-)
 
@r9m Where do you find money to buy all those books :3
 
r9m
@Hippalectryon free ebooks brother =P plus I have a fairly good book grant .. although I don't use that much :P .. I stay in the institutes library all day long :P
 
Aha lucky :-)
 
Your link has a .whl file.
What is that
 
7:23 PM
@Owatch Open cmd in the directory where you download it and type "pip install wheel" then "pip install the_file_.whl". You might need admin privileges, I don't remember.
 
The python command line?
 
the windows command line, cmd.exe
 
I don't think pip comes with the windows command line.
 
"pip" is basically the main python package installer
It should be if you've installed python properly
 
@r9m I will try to find the book
 
7:27 PM
Just installed it normally using the .msi installer. What could possibly go wrong -_-
 
@Owatch Well, tell me if it works this time :-)
 
@Hippalectryon Link doesn't work
 
It works for me :/ sorry then
 
@Hippalectryon because it is based off your session
 
Ah. try gen.lib.rus.ec/book/… then @robjohn
 
7:35 PM
@Hippalectryon $$\int_0^1 \frac{\log^7(1+x)\log(1-x)}{x} \ dx$$
 
Isn't that an old one ?
 
It works for me too?
 
@Hippalectryon Yes, but I wanted to say the next time you meet with those tough professors that give hard questions, ask them all at once to calculate it. Then one day you might like to tell me the result. :-)
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Bah, I'm sure they can give you questions you (and I) won't be able to do either :P
 
@Hippalectryon There is much power here. :-)
 
7:38 PM
Hehe
 
@Hippalectryon trying the various links there... thanks
 
Oh.
I have to download a pip whl file to install pip, so I can install a way to install whl files
Great
 
@Hippalectryon In my book you'll also find the elementary evaluation of $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{H_n^2}{n^9}$$
 
7:44 PM
I really have absolutely no idea what people are talking about when it comes to pip. All answers keep telling me to install it from the command line using a script I don't have.
 
Why do you make me want to get that book so much :-C
Hype hype
 
(it's not maybe, it's 100%)
 
What a bloody mess. I knew this would happen. This always happens with Python.
 
@Hippalectryon :-)
 
@Owatch :( normally pip even comes bundled with 3.x; I'll just do a join.me
It's updating -_-
 
r9m
7:47 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist AWESOME!!!!
 
65% q_q worst connection ever
 
No still errors.
Of course, you can't really get rid of python either. it all sticks around as environment variables and other places
 
r9m
Time to watch Hannibal Season 3 :D BBL
 
@Owatch I'll screenshare, just give me 5 minutes to update the program -_-
 
7:57 PM
@anon yes about singular homology, which is the best type of homology in many ways.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist I can do $\sum\limits_{n=1}^\infty\frac{H_n}{n^9}$, but how do you do the square?
 
@robjohn I'm able to do any variant (referring especially to all odd power of $n$ for $n\ge5$, but I also include the smaller cases, no matter it's even or odd).
 
@Chris'ssistheartist any exponent of $H_n$?
 
@Hippalectryon hi
 
@Gato Re hi
 
8:03 PM
@robjohn In this case, for this family, when $H_n$ is squared, that is $H_n^2$.
@robjohn All flows naturally, beautifully, too nice to be true, like an awesome dream! :-)
 
@Chris'ssistheartist impressive works today
 
@Gato Thank you, but that work means almost nothing. Wait for my book. :-)
 
@Chris'ssistheartist I am, I am! But I need to learn more about this subject.
 
@Gato well, you need to be dedicated to the subject and be willing to spend a lot of time in this area. :-)
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Perhaps I can use some of the ideas I had for this answer
 
8:08 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist I know, for instance I am not sure if I will spend lot of time on it, I prefer complex analysis/ group theory
 
@Hippalectryon I got it
 
@Owatch :O awesome
 
@robjohn That might work.
 
@Owatch So, does my program work ?
 
Yes
The code is a bit difficult to understand so far, but maybe its just weird syntax
 
8:10 PM
:D :D
 
@robjohn you have also this one math.stackexchange.com/questions/469023/…
 
def dist(i,j):
        t=diffvect(i,j)
        return sqrt(t[0]**2+t[1]**2),t
Oh I see
 
@Owatch I'm a bit puzzled as to what happens with sun+earth+moon though, for some reason the moon doesn't seem to orbit around the earth. To see that uncomment the commented parts
 
Does it fly into the sun?
 
@Gato Yeah, that is the one I was talking about without the square. It was the square that I am trying to deal with
 
8:12 PM
Or fly into the Earth by the pull of the sun?
In my own simulator. This was not possible either.
 
and change the scale to 4e11
 
You would need to be very far away and moving slow to get it working
 
@Owatch Try it, you'll see
 
Not close up.
 
@Gato Now it depends if you enjoy this area, if you feel a particular attraction to it, because otherwise it might be just a loss of time. You need to work A LOT in this area, do research, solve, create, do research, solve, create, do research and so on.
 
8:13 PM
@Owatch o/ wait it seems to work with a reduced deltat yee
 
So greater time interval causes error?
 
@Owatch Yeah? Just keep the interval I uploaded (5000) and it works, try it
 
I mean greater time interval causes inaccuracy more than an 'exception' type of error.
 
I thought that did not affect Velocity Verlet
 
8:15 PM
14 mins ago, by robjohn
@Chris'ssistheartist I can do $\sum\limits_{n=1}^\infty\frac{H_n}{n^9}$, but how do you do the square?
 
@Chris'ssistheartist We will see..
@robjohn hum okay
 
@Gato It's more than mathematics, it's an art! I'd doubt you'll get much satisfaction without investing much time in research, I think you also wanna solve things and find ways that no one has found before.
 
@Owatch It does affect it a lot. Greater deltat -> greater imprecisions. Verlet is exactly realty when deltat->0
 
Oh.
Hm.
Should still not have an effect on the problem I have with my code.
Since it seems to be a hardware/internal problem of some kind
(Inaccuracy between computer/device)
def diffvect(i,j):
        return [j["xcoord"]-i["xcoord"],j["ycoord"]-i["ycoord"]]
Is this using a dictionary of some sort?
It looks like you are extracting a value for key "xcoord" and so on.
I get it...
 
@Owatch pastebin.com/g6H0KZNL mercury venus earth moon mars
@Owatch yeah the pointmasses are stored as dictionaries
 
8:23 PM
That's some serious lag lol.
 
? how so ?
 
Well, on mine it is jittery.
 
Runs fine on mine. It's just "slow" because the deltat is "small"
 
What is diffvect
Just a way to find distance between two points?
 
yep, what you said below
 
8:25 PM
As a vector
Its weird to say distance as vector
I was taught in HS physics distance is not a vector.
 
that's why I called it diffvect and not distance
 
I guess it is displacement
 
A directed distance
 
displacement, not distance
 
So my apartment has committed multiple felonies against me. :IIIIII
 
8:26 PM
What does that mean, @Fargle?
You're suing it for felonious assault?
 
@TedShifrin They opened personal mail as though it was mailed to the complex itself, took the stipend check that was from my father and made out to me, and cashed it as a payment from me to them.
 
Whoa.
 
The way I see it they've not only broken the law by opening my mail, but by stealing my money and forging my signature.
Needless to say, I'm fucking livid right now.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist I agree, but I really like complex analysis and group theory, it's also an art :p
 
Had they delivered you formal notice that you owed back rent and that they were taking action?
 
8:28 PM
Nope! They literally just opened my personal mail.
 
@Gato Sure. :-)
 
That is against federal law.
 
At the time, I owed $4.12 for utilities overages, but that was not overdue.
 
@Hippalectryon This line is confusing to me:
 
@Ted: Even if they had, this would still be a felony.
 
8:28 PM
d,dve=dist(oitems[j],oitems[i])
 
WTF ???
 
@Ted I've called the Knoxville police department. These bastards are so done.
 
Too late for your dad to stop payment on the check, @Fargle?
Yes, ok, good.
 
@Owatch dist returns both the distance and the displacement so d=distance, dve=displacement
 
def dist(i,j):
        t=diffvect(i,j)
        return sqrt(t[0]**2+t[1]**2),t
 
8:29 PM
@Fargle: You should seek an attorney, and you should avoid talking about this on the internet for now. Who knows how someone can frame what you say.\
 
python can return multiple args
 
but dist returns diffvect as t.
 
and goodnight, @MikeM ... everything recooped satisfactorily?
 
@TedShifrin I think so, but not too late for the law enforcement to get involved and get my money back.
 
Yes, good advice from @MikeM ...
 
8:29 PM
Fair point, @MikeM. I've said all I'll say.
 
How much do you owe them?
 
Our sincere sympathies, @Fargle.
 
Good luck.
@TedShifrin: Yes, though the phone's still dead, since I don't have my charger with me.
 
@skillpatrol They owe me, now, technically. The check was worth way more than rent + overages + final damage costs (i.e. replacing blinds, etc.). Alright, now my lips are sealed.
 
Well, that's not too serious, @MikeM ... Perhaps you can borrow one.
Wallet recovered, too?
 
8:31 PM
Yes. It even had the three dollars and BevMo card I left in it.
Guess nobody opened it, just checked the front.
 
@Fargle: No need to say more. But I had an experience my first year in grad school where my landlords were total toadstools (this, a horrid apartment building famous for having math grad students, including Yau when he was a grad student). We had terrible amounts of water leakage and damage, and it hurt my health as well. They were too cheap to get professionals to repair it. So after all that, we didn't clean the carpets, and they kept our cleaning/security deposit. I was livid.
Fantastic, @MikeM. You were very lucky. Just cost what you had to pay the cabby. Very lucky.
 
I'm aware. Guy still ripped me off.
Asked for double the cab fare would have cost. :P
 
Well, after this experience, you'll never make that mistake again, @MikeM. [Well, it was cab fare to and fro, hence double.]
 
That's not how the cab company charges delivery service. Hotel staff (who knew the company) was livid when they heard me say how much it was. But I didn't have much of a choice in the matter.
Hi @MichaelA.
 
Make sure you wear your seat belt pal.
 
8:35 PM
Oh. I'm sorry. Well, perhaps the hotel staff will advise people not to use that company in the future.
Hi @MichaelA
 
Hi @MikeMiller.
Hi @TedShifrin.
 
Done all those exercises yet, @MichaelA? :D
 
... yeah, sure.
 
@TedShifrin: Seems like it was the driver at fault, not the company. They think he was charging the delivery rate and keeping the extra for himself.
 
Excellent :)
 
8:39 PM
Besides one usage in March, the last ten minutes have seen all of the instances of the word "livid" being used since 2014.
 
we're livid as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore
 
ROFL @anon ... Thank you for your linguistic intervention :P
I ain't just chopped livid?
 
this is the first instance of the word logorrhea since 2011
 
interestingly, Ted has used the word livid more than everyone else combined in the room's history...
 
That's because Ted is unstable, irascible, and ...
 
8:43 PM
:)
 
The last use doesn't count, @anon. It was a poor pun.
You can find evidence of my evil temper in my videos :P
 
@anon: are you still unsatisfied with homotopy invariants?
 
I'll think about it again at some later date
I haven't even studied homology, only seen a glimpse of what it is while reading other things
 
the only point that i was trying to make is that I don't even know if it's possible to prove something is a homotopy invariant while making choices as in cellular, simplicial homology
(there are cases where you can - and in fact must - make choices like that when you're constructing certain homeomorphism invariants of manifolds. eg I don't think there's a known definition of heegaard floer homology that doesn't start with a heegaard splitting of a 3-manifold, which is analagous to a CW-structure on a space. at least, one that doesn't cheat.)
 
Hello!! Is someone of you familiar with context free languages?
 
8:55 PM
i guess this is fundamentally because there's only so many heegaard splittings of a given 3-manifold, so you get nice results about stabilization, but there's "plenty" of spaces homotopy equivalent to a given space
 
9:06 PM
@TedShifrin How's it going?
:)
 
heya @Stan ... @anon tells me I'm overdoing being livid :P How're you? :D
 
@MikeMiller: Did you see this question?
 
@TedShifrin I'm great! I just got back from the library. I am working through Shivlov's book on linear algebra and some of the exercises.
 
That's a nice book. I gave mine to someone.
 
@TedShifrin Yeah, I got it because one of the reviews said he covered determinants nicely.
I'm still a bit confused about them.
I can do it.
But like i just don't get how one computes them for n dimensions in a tractable manner
 
9:08 PM
Watched my lectures yet? (Those are in the second semester, although 2x2 and 3x3 are introduced early.)
 
I think that guy's an incoming UCLA student. That's maybe the third or fourth UCLA qual question I've seen him ask.
 
Like how am i supposed to for a 45x45 cross out all those columns
it would take all day
and i might mess up
 
No, no, you do row/column operations. And in real life, of course, that's how a computer does it.
 
@StanShunpike: No one has ever computed the determinant of a 45x45 matrix by hand.
 
Some monks might have, @MichaelA, just like they computed log tables by hand :D
 
9:10 PM
I sketched the proof.
 
@MichaelAlbanese Oh! I thought I was missing some shortcut to make it easier so it can be done by hand.
 
I probably gave too much detail.
 
Are you saying there is not a method to make it easy to do by hand then?
 
Unless the matrix is spectacularly sparse or has patterns (in which case you can do inductive stuff), NO.
 
I mean using the computational method one usually defines the determinant as in a linear algebra course. As Ted points out, it is much better to use row operations first.
 
9:12 PM
to simplify it?
One of the problems I did yesterday had a bunch of zeros and so all those terms vanished
this made it much easier to compute
is that the idea?
 
Cofactors are on the order of $nn!$ operations. Row operations on the order of $n^3/3$ operations.
 
@MikeMiller: That was exactly my argument, but I wasn't sure how accurate it was. First of all, the linking number must be one right? Also, is it clear that we can map any such configuration to the one you mention?
 
hey guys
I have accidentally accepted a "wrong answer
 
Unaccept it.
 
Yet the correct one - which I figured out after about 3 months isn't there.
 
9:15 PM
@MichaelAlbanese: If he doesn't specify what the link is no, the process doesn't work. Alexander duality is easiest.
 
@TedShifrin Wow, now that you mention it, that property about cofactors should have been obvious. Where did you get $n^3/3 from?
 
Well it's basically incomplete (whereas I explicitly ask for "verify that it accounts for all possible values)
I found the answer at another site
 
@paul23 isn't there some way to flag that for a mod? answers aren't gone they just aren't visible
maybe a mod can intervene
although I don't know if that is SE protocol to revive answers that way
I was just saying it isn't gone gone
 
But if one wants to do some work you can do it just fine with Mayer-Vietoris.
 
@StanShunpike Well the answer an sich is good - but it's not a complete answer to the question
 
9:16 PM
If one doesn't specify what the link is there's nothing you can say about the fundamental group at all.
 
Lol it's not that it's gone - it's that I accepted something that isn't complete yet
 
When you say "specify what the link is" that just means the linking number right? Or is there something else I'm missing?
 
You need to count how many multiplications (they ignore additions) it takes to get a matrix to upper-triangular, @Stan.
 
@MichaelAlbanese: There are links with both circles unknotted, linking number zero, that aren't the unlink. The linking number is a very coarse invariant.
For instance there's the Whitehead link.
 
Right. I really know nothing about these sorts of problems.
Would links/knots fall under low-dimensional topology or some other title?
 
9:19 PM
@paul23: It's slightly low-class, but if you found a satisfactory answer elsewhere, you could give it as an answer yourself.
 
Low-dimensional topology, yeah.
 
I'll add it to the list.
 
What's the list?
 
The list of things I want to learn at some point.
 
I don't like my list. It's too long.
 
9:20 PM
<--- now has a negative list.
 
When I was talking to him about things I want to learn my advisor looked away, thought to himself for a minute, and then said "Yes, you still have time to learn things."
 
I've said that to you several times, @MikeM.
 
It's the pause that kills you.
 
@TedShifrin: The point of the comment was more that said time is finite and getting quite small.
 
Wel to math.stackexchange.com/questions/1312566/… < that question - I found projectpluto.com/kepler.htm which describes what a good initial value is.
 
9:22 PM
@TedShifrin I didn't realize one could have books to unread
 
That's easily the worst sentence I've written today. Terrible.
 
It's not quite small. You have a liftetime. You just need enough knowledge now to prove a theorem.
Now you do, @Stan. :)
 
I have All Quiet on The Western Front on my unread list
:P
 
I might have read that in German. I've forgotten.
 
Probably best. Not worth remembering. I don't know why they ask 7th graders to read it. O.o
Numbers I could relate to. War not so much.
 
9:26 PM
challenges @Stan to a duel :D
 
LOL are you Galois in disguise?
 
Too old for that.
 
What a waste of a mind lol! Apparently all those brains could help him figure out duels are high risk propositions.
 
It shows to go that one shouldn't take one's life for a woman? :D
 
Uh yeah
This came up in my econ class sort of.
My professor was discussing substitutes.
And he mentioned goods without substitutes.
And I said "like someone's wife?"
And he said, "no, there are substitutes for that."
 
9:30 PM
LOL ... um ...
Plus you shouldn't be heterosexist.
 
@TedShifrin What about a man?
 
I was just discussing Galois, @MikeM.
 
@TedShifrin Since when does the phrase "someone" have a gender?
 
ooh
 
@TedShifrin Wife just implies the person's spouse is one gender. It doesn't imply that the person themselves is a particular gender
 
9:33 PM
Granted, @Stan. Semi-heterosexist :P
 
He has to be male
 
Oh, never mind.
 
othewrise you're immoral!
 
@TedShifrin I looked your name up in our library catalog and we have your "Geometry and topology" and "Multivariable mathematics"
The latter is checked out
 
The former was a compendium of research papers from a geometry/topology conference in the 80s.
 
9:38 PM
Yeah, that's what the catalog says
 
Well, of course the latter is checked out :)
 
lolol
So has the Big Move started?
or are you doing small stages?
 
No small stages. Movers come on 7/17. I fly on 7/23.
 
Will you be accepting $6,000 to redo your lawn? lol
@TedShifrin
 
huh? are you in the lawn business?
 
9:44 PM
For $6000, sure :D
 
I pinged you with an article on this. @TedShifrin The article was saying that there is a $450 million initiative in California
to have people stop using lawns that consumer water
and like put down gravel, cacti and stuff that doesn't require water-based up keep
 
oh, you meant in CA. Yeah, cacti everywhere. But I'm in a condo building. I have no yard :)
 
Yes, the government is insistent that homeowners are the problem, not wasteful farms.
 
Yeah, I saw some horrific figure about the amount of water almond farming consumed.
 
Not to mention industries siphoning off water to sell bottled when their license to do so expired years ago.
 
9:49 PM
industries are always one step ahead of the law
Speaking of industries
 
well, @Stan, as an economist, you have to care about such things.
 
Hi!!! It is given that $n \in \mathbb{N}$ and $A \in M_n(\mathbb{C})$ with $A^m=I$ for some $m \in \mathbb{N}$. How can we show that the matrix $A$ is diagonalizable?
 
True. So my father's course is about to launch from Coursera
@TedShifrin Did you use a platform to promote your content?
Or did you just post the lectures on youtube
I mean, they are on youtube
but sometimes people do both
 
just posted ... mostly for my own students ... then decided to mention it in my profile here and on my webpage.
 
So far he has people reaching out to him from
Belgium, Brazil, India, Ireland, Japan and Liberia
 
9:53 PM
I'm not surprised ... my diff geo notes have been used as a text literally all over the world.
 
That's so cool!
I'm proud of both you guys!
 
I've forgotten, @Stan. What field is your dad in?
 
Economic law
You can get a flavor of him by watching this 2 min video
 
Ah ... Interesting. Does he do that as an internationally-focused course?
 
Only for certain issues
Particularly those where something in the US affects other areas and legislation is multinational
Like Google book search
He did stuff on that
 
9:57 PM
@TedShifrin: Did your father spell his surname the way you do?
 
yup @MikeM
Not Lalo.
 
OK. Someone told me about a composer named Schifrin the other day and I asked them to spell it. I see.
 
He's super enthusiastic, which is always a good thing, especially for web-based learning, @Stan. If I were more legally-inclined, I'd love to learn from him. :)
Lalo Schifrin wrote for films and TV. Not my dad, @MikeM.
 
Gotcha.
 
That's very nice of you, I will tell him. He will appreciate it.
 
9:59 PM
But you still owe me homework problems, @Stan :D
 
I'll send you mine now but I haven't finished the last ones
last one*
 
LOL ...
 

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