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10:00 PM
@TedShifrin really? i had the impression that US undergrad education is hard.
 
lol
 
balderdash, @Balarka
 
Defn: (Grad School) when live is secondary.
 
@BalarkaSen Only if you take the hard courses for bright kids in good schools
 
Interesting, @Ted. I was under the impression that the U.S. college education system is one of the best in the world.
 
10:00 PM
@AlexWertheim Where you from?
 
We do have harder courses for our best students, such as my multivariable math course, but 99.9% of students avoid such courses
 
Really, I don't know what to take once I get into college
 
@ABeautifulMind: Well. The U.S., so maybe that's just nationalism talking. :)
 
@Ted they are just afraid of you
 
@AlexWertheim Just take a look at the Cambridge Mathematical Tripos.
 
10:01 PM
I know that our high school system is not so good though.
 
Most college students in the US don't really want to learn, @Julian. Sad, but true. They're there to join fraternities and sororities. Not so true with the students who are the first in their family to go to school.
 
@DanielFischer: I solved the problem I mentioned to you. It relied explicitly on the chosen form of the parametrix. It's seems likely that if I had chosen a different one, it wouldn't have worked.
 
@ABeautifulMind: sure, the Tripos provides an exceptional undergraduate mathematics education. I don't know that that's evidence that the U.S. college education system isn't also strong.
 
I was in one of the most rigorous high schools in the country, it all depends on where one attends school
 
@MikeMiller what are you loling at?
 
10:02 PM
I went to a top-rated high school in Massachusetts in the 60s, @teadawg, and there were 5 good teachers (out of 100+).
 
@AlexWertheim Well, I mean, I don't see any US university which provides such courses to math undergrads.
 
it seems from the discussions that U.S. educational system is quite similar to Indian education system.
 
@MikeMiller Ah. Much fiddling, or is there an elegant argument?
 
And my friends in Europe tell me it's been diluted there, too, @Balarka. Everyone wants to copy the US. ... Of course, this doesn't apply to people like @Hippa.
 
@ABeautifulMind: which courses, specifically? I find that quite hard to believe. Either way, I have no stake in this.
 
10:03 PM
@DanielFischer Neither.
 
except that our math undergrads usually study more physics than math.
@TedShifrin yeah!
France!
 
@MikeMiller Then what?
 
@DanielF: Mike usually eschews elegance.
 
that's a great place
 
@Ted then what do I do? We are going to turn into a community of uneducated people
I want to learn
 
10:04 PM
@TedShifrin Why would we copy a tiny, poor and secluded country like the US ? oh... wait a sec...
 
@TedShifrin The determinants approach to using wedge products is really cool. It makes it much easier to see why you might use them for E&M.
 
@AlexWertheim They may provide some of the rarer courses, but not so many of them altogether. I don't even need to name them.
 
lol @Hippa
 
Indeed we are, @Julian. I have excellent students who thrive on being challenged and learning, too, @Julian, but it's a minority. You just need to seek out teachers in good classes.
 
@teadawg: the high school I went to was just fine as well. I didn't say all high schools were bad, only that high school education in the U.S. seems to be /generally/ less well regarded than our college education system.
 
10:04 PM
@DanielF: One can see that for a suitably chosen bump function $\chi$, if $P(D)$ is our differential operator, $$\frac{1-\chi(\xi)}{P(\xi)} \in \mathcal S'(\Bbb R^n).$$ The Fourier transform of this is our parametrix.
 
The fancy approach amounts to the same thing, @Stan. It just hides it :P
 
Now one just takes derivatives. It's not really fiddling, it's easy.
 
@Balarka are you in college now?
 
nope.
 
@MikeMiller Looks like you can make an elegant argument from that.
 
10:06 PM
@AlexWertheim The problem is that the GPA system is standardized, and students attending less rigorous schools will appear to be better students than those being challenged academically
 
high school. good days, with lots of holidays.
 
@TedShifrin Did you say you discuss this in your book? I looked through it and didn't see wedge or exterior products listed in the index.
 
All of chapter 8, @Stan.
 
@BalarkaSen Uni has more hols, lol
 
Maybe, @DanielFischer. I didn't think "Take some derivatives and write some bounds" was terribly elegant, but personal taste.
 
10:06 PM
yeah, i don't get what this GPA stuff is
 
@TedShifrin: Oh, I didn't tell you the other great value of teaching complex analysis; upper divs have only one section a week, and it's on Thursday. Since I'm in LA, that means Tuesday is beach day.
 
@teadawg: sure, I can agree with that. I went to college with many very bright friends, but many of them had very easy high school experiences. I went to a high school where I was challenged often. The transition to college level work was much easier for me than it was for them. It catches up eventually.
 
um, no it doesn't, @Mike.
 
it sounds like they'll take you on grad school if you have done everything good enough on average.
that's simply not right
 
@Alex: I tell my students they'll be forever grateful that they were challenged to work on hard stuff as freshmen ... most of them are.
 
10:08 PM
@TedShifrin: where 'beach day', of course, means doing work at a cafe on the beach, drinking iced coffee
 
They'd be wise to listen to you, @Ted. Much better now than later.
The value of hard work is something that can't be learned early enough
 
yup, our grad students who went to "easy" undergraduate institutions are generally in big trouble
 
@TedShifrin Nice! I'm going to go read it now. bbl
 
the transition from undegrad level to grad level is generally not very nice, i guess.
 
@MikeMiller Beach day is what Stephen Smale does.
 
10:09 PM
that was in Rio, Jasper
and that was 50 years ago
 
Sorry, did, not does.
 
Maybe I should move to Rio.
 
Brazil? Don't.
 
Come here where I am. It is sunny always.
 
The public is quite in the bad mood in Brazil from the time they held the world cup in 2013.
 
10:12 PM
LOL
I watched that match.
 
the government's doing nothing for them. no hospitals, no colleges, and public really wants no more "we are good at playing football" bullshit.
 
What score was it again?
 
the final? 1-0. Germany won.
 
No, with Brazil.
 
oh. 7-1, lol.
 
10:13 PM
LOL
 
ok, i really have to go to sleep now.
g'night.
 
Ugh, it was a terrible idea to spend all weekend working with polylogs... I made a lot of progress, but my brain is just completely fried
 
@teadawg: We've got to get you interested in something different :P
g'night, again, @Balarka
 
@teadawg1337 Stop cutting polytrees
 
is that like sawing polywood, @Hippa?
 
10:16 PM
@Hippalectryon Branch cuts are efficient, though :P
 
@ted Today, I suddenly stopped struggling against my mental problems. I suddenly felt as if all the shit in my life just had to happen. It's a strange feeling.
 
Night @Balarka
 
@TedShifrin :P
 
@TedShifrin Such as girls.
 
well, maybe that's a good step, Jasper ...
 
10:16 PM
right now i'm trying to get mathematica to solve something which really should have a solution, and it's not coming up with it. mutter.
 
@Semiclassical: I've encountered a number of things over the years where Mathematica threw up its hands ... One has to ask it politely.
 
@TedShifrin Maybe because I fucking struggled for so many years.
 
hah, yes.
 
@TedShifrin I'm not working on anything else until I can prove this identity that I found, and which has been haunting me for a month
 
@teadawg1337 Your interest is highly specialised, like Chris.
 
(namely, finding the picard-fuchs operator for a certain 1-form depending on a parameter $t$)
 
@ted Have you finally browsed through my paper? =)
 
no, Jasper, I am too preoccupied with the mess all through my house
 
(if i'm remembering the stuff i learned about that, this one-form really should have a second-order PF operator. but mathematica isn't coming up with one.)
 
Ah, me too @Ted
 
10:19 PM
@Mike: I have almost 30 years of mess to get rid of
 
(though usually that's a sign that i haven't picked a sufficiently general ansatz for it. i only know how to do it brute force)
 
Ah, mine's only about thirty days.
 
I have 33 years of mess in the brain to get rid of.
 
A more compact, but denser, mess.
 
nods ... that's 365 times worse for me, @Mike
 
10:20 PM
@ABeautifulMind I spend a little while focusing on one subject before moving on to something else, I'm not necessarily obsessed with polylogs :P
 
@teadawg1337 I don't even know what polylogs are, though I know that logs are wood.
 
polylogarithms*
 
Joke, lol.
Gee, nobody gets my jokes, lol.
 
to me, a polylog is just "those things i end up calculating whenever i have to do integrals in quantum stat mech"
 
My joke superseded all these ...
2
 
10:22 PM
But it was equally tedious, @Ted
 
@TedShifrin Star for you
 
well, @Mike, we know your humor is so superior :P
 
Nobody stars me, because I am a star.
3
 
[insert pun on limit superior here]
 
10:23 PM
btw, @Mike, how long until @Pedro shows up to critique your lecture?
 
A couple weeks.
He'll be here day of.
 
time to start preparing
 
What lecture?
 
@ABeautifulMind The lecture of the century
 
hi @ted
 
10:24 PM
That started a bit ago, @Ted :P
 
yes, wat?
 
Does that mean I'll just miss Pedro too, @Mike?
 
I hope not, @teadawg ... it's very early in the century
hi @Ramanewb
 
I've got 2/3 left to write down, but the amount of original thought I need to write for it is most for the next section.
 
it's going to be that long?
 
10:25 PM
@AlexWertheim Well... yeah. Whoops. :(
 
@MikeMiller What topic?
 
Damn. Could've been a real party.
 
Nah, @Alex, not without me :D
 
True, @Ted. When are you coming out? :)
 
@AlexWertheim: Well, we'll always have Wednesday. (What do they have planned for you for Thursday?)
 
10:26 PM
I'll be there for a week house-hunting at the end of May ... planning to move in July
 
@ABeautifulMind The smooth Poincare conjecture in dimension 4.
 
@AlexWertheim He has come out already.
 
LOL, Jasper, out of context, as usual.
 
...oh, gdi. i just realized what i was doing wrong. wrong derivative!
 
Pretty much nothing, @Mike. I think breakfast, a housing tour and that's it.
 
10:27 PM
@Mike will have to spend his summer practicing cooking :D
 
Ah, so we can give you the housing tour the night before and you can pretty much do whatever you want on Wednesday :P
 
Haha, you mean Thursday? Sounds good to me. :)
 
It's raining out there again :(
I think I heard thunder too.
 
@Ted I understand. But how would you think I should go about asking around for taking classes
 
It's sad when I see people living normal lives when I have to struggle with mental illness. =(
 
10:30 PM
CA needs a year of rain to get out of drought status
@Julian: I'll give you unsolicited advice, but first I have to see how good you actually are.
 
Yeah, I'm happy for the state, I'm just sad for my beautiful days.
 
@ABeautifulMind You can try to change that.
 
I don't feel sorry for you, @Mike. You're supposed to be slaving on math 24/7.
 
It's 62 where you are, Mike. I'll happily trade if you like. =P
 
You can slave on math while enjoying beautiful days, @Ted.
 
10:32 PM
@TedShifrin If I am well, I would not even be in this chat. I would be doing math 24/7.
 
ehh. i suppose there's a level of jest there, but
 
I was waiting for the bus some days ago. My eyes sometimes water from the wind, and I kid you not, a tear froze to my eyelashes. Apparently, it was -13 that morning.
 
@infinitesimal Yeah, trying to for over a decade.
 
@Semiclassical I suspect Ted is not particularly worried about the amount of time I actually spend on math.
 
@ABeautifulMind even the most accomplished mathematicians do "normal stuff" sometimes
 
10:33 PM
@Ted that scares me but OK. I may be slow though. :)
 
@AlexWertheim No, it's okay, I'm glad to be sad about the weather... over here.
 
UGH........ There's another round of winter weather heading my way this week
 
Well. I think I'm slow
 
Just when I thought it was all over...
 
@DavidWheeler Well, I am not accomplished. I am not brilliant in math, just alright.
 
10:33 PM
yeah, it's been record-setting cold in the midwest and east, @AlexW
 
@Ted^^
 
one of the things i learned from my time in grad school is that i really really don't care for this attitude of "you should be here b/c you love what you're doing. hence, if you're not working 24/7, then you don't really love it."
 
I saw, @Julian
 
JESUS, the forecasts predict 5-8 inches of snow and ice on Wednesday
 
which is actually pretty inhuman if you think about it.
 
10:34 PM
Lol, me coming to LA is definitely the solution @Mike. :)
 
oh no, @teadawg runs to look at Athens forecast
 
@Semiclassical Agree.
 
@Ted saw what?
 
i am, of course, engaging in some hyperbole of my own
 
Oh that I am slow?
 
10:34 PM
Yep, @Ted. Apparently the average was something like 10 degrees lower than normal in February.
 
but it's an attitude that really does have such potential for abuse, intended or not, when it comes to grad students
 
@teadawg1337 There is no snow here. Ice is only found in the fridge.
 
slow and thorough is usually an excellent trait, @Julian.
 
@Semiclassical: I know the problem you describe. I think it's often more common in lab sciences.
 
@ABeautifulMind There are different forms of accomplishment-brilliance is but one. You can do something requiring sustained effort, or discover implications of brilliant discoveries, or re-cast old ideas in modern language, for a couple examples
 
10:35 PM
@MikeMiller Yeah, they cannot do experiments on Rio beaches.
 
They can try.
 
@teadawg: No such weather coming this way. Amazing that a few hours makes such a difference.
 
there's definitely variations culture-to-culture
 
@Ted Tennessee weather blows my mind...
 
When I was in undergrad, I was already sick. So till this day, I don't know how good I will be if I wasn't sick.
 
10:36 PM
And that thought adds to your torture, Jasper.
 
I'm in the Twin Cities, so i've been having to put up with cold (though not snow, thankfully)
 
Oy, I feel for you @Semiclassical.
 
@ABeautifulMind Well, you'll never live in that alternate universe, but you can probably find things to appreciate in this one.
 
eh, one lives with it
 
@Ted thank you. So what is your advice?
 
10:37 PM
I don't know what will happen to me, but I will do my best to get well and hope for a miracle of some kind in my life.
 
And I truly appreciate it
 
Hello
 
take things slowly, @Julian ... don't be in such a hurry to get to fancy-sounding stuff without mastering things lower down.
4
 
there's a minnesota joke i'm quite 'fond' of. the four seasons of minnesota weather
winter
more winter
still winter
and road construction
 
Can some one help me with a good reference about sieving methods?
 
10:38 PM
Sounds like Lake Woebegon, @Semiclassical, without the "everyone's above average" bit.
 
@ABeautifulMind It's quite possible, my bipolar disorder "evened out" when I hit 50 or so.
 
@TedShifrin Yeah, master the balls lower down first.
 
right
 
@Jasper Why...
 
the whole mental health aspect of grad school is a big thing, yeah
 
10:38 PM
@DavidWheeler I am trying to get well, study and go to grad school by 40.
 
it's becoming bigger and bigger among undergraduates, too, @Semiclassical
 
the time i was really active in MSE over the summer/fall was due to me taking an academic leave of absence
 
@ABeautifulMind You may, at some later date, decide to "partially" complete grad school, in order to make your eventual goal less daunting.
 
which in part had to do with me no longer understanding why i was in grad school, but the issues of anxiety / depression have played a big part in all of it
 
10:40 PM
@Ilya, since it's mostly the same people here all the time and none of us knows that stuff, you shouldn't find it surprising that none of us knows that stuff.
 
@DavidWheeler No, my ultimate goal is to work in academia for the rest of my life.
 
@Ilya_Gazman Not ignoring you, I just don't know any except Erosthenes'
 
@Ilya_Gazman I think Terence Tao's blog has been hosting quite a bit of material on sieving methods
 
ah, I forgot he's teaching analytic number theory this quarter
 
might not be the stuff you're looking for, but there may be links to sources etc.
 
10:41 PM
@ABeautifulMind Still possible, no matter how long grad school takes.
 
@DavidWheeler But first, my priority is to get well, which is something very hard already.
 
@TedShifrin i don't doubt it, and i say that as both a former undergrad and as someone who's done TA work
 
@Semiclassical I didn't know you were bothered by mental problems as well.
 
Please take a look at my latest question. I think I finally been able to express what is that I am thinking in reasonable words.
 
it seems far more prevalent than when I was starting out teaching, @Semiclassical
 
10:43 PM
well, there's probably a few things involved
 
@Ted I understand. That is what I am doing now. I think that I am going as slowly as I possibly can :)
 
I'm usually pretty attuned to it when I teach ...
 
@ABeautifulMind I know it's hard for you. You have to work to keep your spirits up.
 
@TedShifrin Sorry, what is becoming bigger and bigger among undergrads?
 
more struggles with depression, Jasper
 
10:43 PM
one is that mental health issues are more visible than they used to be. so even if the base-rate were held fixed, i think it'd appear more prevalant nowadays
 
OK. I have depression, trauma, and OCD. Very deadly.
 
part of it is that society is far more narcissistic, @Semiclassical, but that's a small part.
 
@Semiclassical More cases are identified, but maybe the number never really grew.
 
closest thing i have to trauma is probably grad school itself. (which, for some, would really not be an exaggeration)
 
Grad school is tough, no exaggeration.
 
10:44 PM
@Semiclassical What happened?
 
What are you studying now, @Julian?
 
@Ted I think where I am now with topology and beginning abstract algebra is the place for now
 
i don't think i can chalk it up to a single event
 
@Alex ^^
 
Well, it's still more advanced than I'd typically recommend, @Julian, but I won't fight you. But I'm waiting for you to get back to me on that topology question.
 
10:45 PM
@Semiclassical Is it really so stressful for you? Or is it bad only because of your existing mental problems?
 
Hmm, I see.
 
just getting more and more worn down by the process, failing to make progress on necessary goals, and having to struggle with cycles of anxiety/depression
i'm not sure i can easily distinguish the two.
 
@Semiclassical Hey, if you need a listening ear, you can email me.
 
sure. i'll let you know
it's not really possible for me to judge how difficult grad school would be without the mental health background
 
I have the emails of about over 20 SE folks, lol. And many shared secrets with me, lol.
 
10:47 PM
part of it, to be fair, was just the slow realization that i don't want to go into academia
 
those of us in academia aren't insulted by that decision, @Semiclassical :)
 
@Semiclassical So after you finish you don't want to go into academia?
 
@tedshifman: maybe not, but it's part of the culture
 
@ABeautifulMind PTSD should get somewhat better with time. The OCD and depression might only respond to medication. It's really sort of touch-and-go with those, as everyone's brain chemistry appears to be "fine-tuned" to them, particularly.
 
more the culture at the very top graduate programs in the country, less so at the lower-ranked (like where I am)
 
10:49 PM
@Ted I see. I will try to get back to you tomorrow because my phone is about to die and I need to think about it.
 
LOL, sure, @Julian
 
well, i'm doing theoretical physics at the UMN.
 
@Ted sorry.
 
yes, @Semiclassical. I don't know the physics rankings, but I'm assuming it's pretty high.
 
I am doing time at home, lol.
 
10:50 PM
That wasn't sarcastic, @Julian. No problem.
 
Byes to everyone!
 
Le bye
 
I was at MIT and Berkeley for my schooling and postdoc, @Semiclassical, so I recognize the differences.
 
La bye.
 
10:50 PM
Adieu @Julian
smacks @Hippa
 
A deeohs
 
Aw please not le smack
 
the funny thing is, i still like the stuff i do for research right now. the math is fun
 
La smack.
 
10:51 PM
Il smaccucio
 
@Semiclassical Maybe don't see it as work, see it as fun.
 
well, @Semiclassical: Sometimes it takes a while to discover where one's passion lies.
 
@TedShifrin It lies in passionfruit tea.
 
that works for the math. it doesn't work for defending my research at the levels of papers and presentations
 
@Semiclassical Publish or perish sure is not a good thing. POP
 
10:52 PM
That's not half bad, Jasper :P
 
no, it's not
 
@Ted: how do you feel about Lang for algebra?
 
and that's in regards to both the puns and POP
 
it's good once you know it all already, @Alex.
 
(I'd be reading out of it myself over the next 5 months or so)
 
10:54 PM
Sometimes I'm glad I avoided a career in math. For a long time I regretted it, but now I feel, iono, relieved.
 
that word 'research' is a bit loaded
 
I wonder what happened to that woman raped by her father for 24 years in that underground cellar.
 
I have always been far more teaching-oriented, @David, although I published some good papers in top journals. Just not many.
 
if one means research as the activity of learning/developing ideas, then i love research
 
@Alex: I would recommend Dummit and Foote. Excellent problems ... perhaps too many. But Lang has very few.
 
10:54 PM
@Ted: Hrm. I certainly don't know it all, far from it. But I would say I'm comfortable on most of D&F, save some of the sophisticate commutative algebra that comes later, and a bit of the module theory in the middle.
LOL. Hmmm.
 
Well, if you really know D&F, @Alex, you know most of what's in Lang. If you can do the harder exercises, you're in great shape.
 
@TedShifrin The kind of person I am, I would have been driven to be very competitive, and I think I would have burnt-out early.
 
if one means it, though, as a profession in the sense of academia today---then nope
 
@AlexWertheim: What's the sophisticated commutative algebra that comes later? (You should definitely know the module theoory.)
 
@TedShifrin One must do exercise and not just exercises to be in great shape.
 
10:55 PM
smacks Jasper
You do neither.
 
I do plenty of walking sometimes.
 
"plenty" "sometimes" ?
 
I do plenty of slacking off :/
 
Heh, I'm nervous to say I really know it. For some of the chapters out of D&F, I've done almost every single problem. Others, almost none.
 
Walk 2 miles every day and then we'll talk.
No news bulletin there, @Hippa :D
 
10:56 PM
-_-
 
I am making le toast now
 
And you're training your brother to take after you, @Hippa.
 
@DavidWheeler no, no . omelette du fromage
 
@Mike: well, perhaps I shouldn't have said sophisticated. Sophisticated for me, perhaps. I was thinking about some of the material on Grobner bases in chapter 9, and then the later material in chapters 15-18.
 
du ou au ?
 
10:57 PM
Sadly, I know almost no module theory, which is a major gap I'm trying to fill in.
 
I don't really know of the relevance of Grobner bases... I guess they exist. I think they're one way to prove the Nullstellensatz, but not the way I'd do it.
 
I think my favourite language is Italian, though I don't know it.
 
Lemme look up the table of contents.
 
They're important for computational algebraic geometry, @Mike.
 
10:58 PM
LOL, @Hippa
 
So one should learn them if they're going to do computational algebraic geometry, and precisely then :P
 
i ran into groebner bases a while back
 
Même auf deutsch il n'y a pas de "dü"
 
didn't understand enough
 
I did not know algebraic geometry has applications in statistics, which is what my friend did.
 
10:59 PM
specifically in the context of this set of notes on Picard-Fuchs equations
 
Do you know Galois theory, @AlexWertheim? That was the hardest for me. I never quite got it all down.
 
It's 7 am here.
 

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