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10:04 PM
@BalarkaSen okay good point so for vector spaces it's about obstructions to isomorphisms of linear maps, yet for homological algebra you have to generalize this and say it's an obstruction to something:
"we measure the obstruction to some construction. This is the basis of homological algebra: (co)homology groups, toda classes, chern classes, thom classes and so on."
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/vector-field-uniquely-determined-by-rot-div.174451/#post-1363006
(post 6)
which explains why concepts such as $\mathrm{Ext}$ and $\mathrm{Tor}$ have an obstruction interpretation
This physicsforums.com/threads/… has a nice little general perspective discussion on obstructions
 
well, you can say they determine "obstruction". I'm more or less fine with that, once you make it clear in what context the obstructions arise. But solving linear system of equations is hardly the point.
 
Yeah so I don't fully understand how to set up the notion of obstruction in general I guess
(At all haha)
 
You can say homology measures the obstruction for an arbitrary cycle to be a boundary. That's fine (although doesn't really appeal to me, as - again - it doesn't tell me what homology is about).
@bolbteppa I doubt there is a general formalism about obstructions.
 
@BalarkaSen there is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_theory and it's part of topology and it's mentioned in later chapters (i.e. after homology, homotopy) in some sources, just trying to understand what I've said so far before diving in I guess
 
sorry, I was off to get something from the fridge.
No, obstruction theory is different from what you're saying.
 
10:21 PM
@BalarkaSen I don't agree, but I wont press that now, so I hope we've managed to at least agree that cohomology is about obstructions related to differential operators, and homological algebra is about obstructions related to linear operators, where by an obstruction I guess we mean we are "defining an obstruction to that problem having a solution" (last link, post 3)?
 
Obstruction theory asks when a manifold has a PL structure. I am not sure how you could disagree. I mean, just because "ABC" has the term "A" in it doesn't mean they are related :P
@bolbteppa you can say that. but as again, saying homological algebra is obstruction of linear maps being isomorphism is a huge simplification.
I mean, an obstruction to a linear map being an isomorphism is just kernel and image of that map.
 
10:51 PM
Howdy
 
LOL, howdy, SirCumf
 
hi @TedShifrin
 
hi @Balarka
 
Am I the only one who thinks degrees are useless?
As opposed to radians?
 
Hi @SirCumference-Pies @TedShifrin @BalarkaSen
 
10:52 PM
hi @morphic
 
Howdy @morphic
 
LOL, I wouldn't write a world treatise on it, @SirCumf. Radians are needed in advanced science, engineering, and math, but the lower creatures can do fine with degrees.
hi mr eyeglasses
 
Yeah, but why not just teach radians to little kids instead?
 
I'm more concerned about the metric system than I am about getting rid of degrees.
 
Don't get your hopes up
 
10:54 PM
They're not.
 
But I love converting feet into miles
 
Maybe some day we'll all use Kelvin instead of Farenheit or Celsius
 
@TedShifrin You have referred to an exercise in the introduction which gives an example of a function which has exactly 1 critical point which is a local minimum yet not a global minimum. Isn't that visually clear? Start from a point, go up in all directions to form a paraboloid, then go down by another larger, reversed, paraboloid.
 
@Balarka: Did you think about Karim's question from Munkres about components of $R^\omega$ in the box topology?
No, @Balarka, you just introduced a whole pile more of critical points!
 
Yikes, oh dear, yes.
 
10:56 PM
That I doubt, @SirCumf.
 
Meh, it'd be more convenient
 
Not really.
 
@TedShifrin Sure, I can solve it. Karim has already proved the 1st part.
But, as again, box topology is not my favorite topology.
 
What is your favorite topology Balarka
 
Yes, the reverse direction is far more subtle, @Balarka.
Nor should it be, but box/uniform/product is very educational.
Right now, the inverse function theorem should be Balarka's favorite topology :P
 
10:58 PM
lol.
 
We are doing implicit now in our class, and then we are done with the semester
 
Pity to end on the proofs without then spending time on using them for interesting things ...
But that's for differential topology, graduate differential geometry, I guess.
 
I guess our homework makes us do that
 
Oh good.
 
My favorite topological space is Zariski topology on Spec Z, of course.
 
11:00 PM
Our professor never gives examples during lectures
 
Ah, my favorite ... the European formal lecture.
Even in advanced graduate courses I do examples.
oops ... did.
 
He's from Russia, so I guess that makes sense
 
Hmm, maybe do some magic trick by spunning the curve $y = x^3$, etc.
 
Although one of our best teachers at UGA is Russian, and he does do examples.
Get back to work, @Balarka!
 
@TedShifrin I am thinking about how to visualize such a surface!
 
11:02 PM
Oh, that's what that was about.
Anything with rotational symmetry is doomed.
 
Yep. I need to do some surgery after rotating an obtuse angle or so.
 
lol
 
wat.
 
Remember, you need a local min to start ...
 
@BalarkaSen thanks for helping me refine the hand-waiving ;)
 
11:05 PM
sure.
i am wondering why Mike lol-ed. did I sound really undignified when I said that?
hmm, surely we need some cubic nature in the surface. quadratic things would fail badly.
 
I would bet serious money that such a function, if it exists, will not be a polynomial.
 
@TedShifrin This is not correct.
Can I have serious money?
 
Depends on our definition of "serious." I already bought you a serious dinner.
 
haha
 
Serious money
 
11:11 PM
Email me your candidate, @MikeM.
 
Sending, but not via facebook.
 
I said email.
 
@TedShifrin Something like this, maybe? Start with a small upside down cap with local minima at the bottom, and treat each, uh, "meridian" on the cap as part of some cubic function which looks like a flipped 'S'. And you need to do this properly so that the other extrema of the 'S's won't line up or create a local maxima, by putting them in an increasing manner so the slope of the tangent plane never becomes $0$.
Ugh, I am bad at this.
 
You need to be a lot more explicit than that to insure no further critical points.
Are you really trying to make it go to $-\infty$ everywhere far out?
 
Yes.
 
11:14 PM
Morse theory may say that cannot happen.
 
Well, it also goes to $+\infty$ at some places.
If you climb up by the extremas of the 'S's, for example.
@TedShifrin That's a cool fact.
 
Hello @TedShifrin !!

I am reading a proof and there is the following part:

"Since $\gamma$ is regular, at least one of $\dot u(t_0)$, $\dot v(t_0)$ and $\dot w(t_0)$ is non-zero, say $\dot u(t_0)$. This means that the graph of $u$ as a function of $t$ is not parallel to the $t$-axis at $t_0$.
This implies that any line parallel to the $t$-axis close to $u=x_0$ intersects the graph of $u$ at a unique point $u(t)$ with $t$ close to $t_0$."

Could you explain to me the part "This implies that any line parallel to the $t$-axis close to $u=x_0$ intersects the graph of $u$ at a unique point $u(
 
@Balarka: When you're done with this, here's something I should have put in the book but have written as a problem subsequently.
 
Ohh new updates for Spring 2016
 
If $f(x,y)=f(y,x)$, then you can use the chain rule to show that critical points are likewise $\Bbb Z/2$-equivariant. In "real life," almost always the max/min show up on the diagonal. Can you find a function that's symmetric but which has no critical point on the diagonal?
huh? @morphic
 
11:25 PM
Can you explain what you mean by critical points being Z/2 equivariant? You mean every critical point is of the form (a, a)?
 
It's a badly written sentence, @MaryStar. They mean that restricting to $t$ near $t_0$, each horizontal line crosses the $(t,u)$-graph once. This is just because you have an increasing or decreasing function.
No, I mean $(a,b)$ is a critical point iff $(b,a)$ is a critical point. @Balarka. Indeed, my challenge to you is to find a function where there are NONE on the diagonal.
That shocked me, btw.
 
Sure. I was a bit worried at first because there are lots of symmetric functions with critical points not of the form (a, a) :P
@TedShifrin Hmm.
I'll write it down.
 
I asked my physicist friends why it is that every "real world problem" has symmetric solutions, however. They never gave me a good answer. I don't have one.
It's a good exercise in the chain rule to prove what I said. One must be careful.
 
ok, but let me finish this first :P
 
It's past your bedtime ... again.
 
11:30 PM
@TedShifrin Not sure if I see why the problem is hard, but I am sleepy. What if you arrange a bunch of parabolas along a line with positive slope which floats above the diagonal?
 
Oh, now you're on the new question?
 
Well, you're the one derailing me :P
 
You like it when I do that :)
I don't see why your function has any critical points at all @Balarka.
 
@TedShifrin You never said you wanted your function to have a critical point. There are no critical points on the diagonal, as desired.
 
Oh, I definitely want critical points.
I'm not claiming they're global max/min, just critical points.
 
11:34 PM
Then it's easy. Just modify my example to put two potholes on the two sheets of half of parabola $\times$ $[0, 1]$ on both sides.
 
Ah, ok ... Tomorrow you can try to write down a formula for me. You really have become a total topologist. Only pictures.
 
:D
OK, I will write down a formula tomorrow.
 
11:50 PM
I see... After that there is the following part:

"This gives a function $h(x)$, defined for $x$ in an open interval containing $x_0$, such that $t=h(x)$ is the unique solution of $u(t)=x$ if $x$ is near $x_0$ and $t$ is near $t_0$. The inverse function theorem tells us that $h$ is smooth."

Could you explain it to me?
 
Hi @TedShifrin
I did one side btw
 
hello, i'm looking for a commutative ring R and an element z in the field of fractions of R so that if z is represented as a/b with a and b in R, then there will always be a non-unit common factor of a and b, does this kind of a ring and an element exist?
 
@TedShifrin So suppose that $x,y \in R^{\omega}$ such that x - y is eventually zero, note x and y can be writtten as $x = (x_1,....,x_i,...)$, $y = (y_1,....,y_i,....)$. By hypothesis there exists $N \in \mathbb{N}$ such that $x_i - y_i = 0 \forall i > N$, so that means that $x_i = y_i \forall i > N$
$f : R^n \rightarrow R^{\omega}$ where $(q_1,q_2,...,q_n) \mapsto (q_1,q_2,...,q_n,x_{N + 1},x_{N + 2},....)$
such map is continous
and $x,y$ is in $f(R^n)$
since R^n is connected so is the image, but the image is then a component of x,y.
that is one side
the other side I am still thinking about
just have to put on hold though because have to study for my advanced mechanics exam
 
replace 'ring' with 'domain' in my question (so that the field of fractions makes sense)
 

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