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7:00 PM
@Mike, I do think it's terse. I think the exercises are absolutely its strong point. ... Oddly enough, someone on Amazon complained that my Multivariable Math book is too "talky" or "wordy," when almost everyone else complains that I'm too terse.
I asked my TA if he could come up with an explanation, @Studentmath. I'll let you know if he tells me one.
 
@TedShifrin Well, I disagree, and I'm willing to fight about it.
 
@Ted I am really curious
 
You've become quite the pugilist since you started grad school. @Mike
2
 
It might be simply chance of arithematics
 
Yeah, @Studentmath, that's what I believe. Just thought it would never happen :P
 
7:02 PM
I have to do something with all this spare time I have, @Ted.
 
Also, @Studentmath, I realized I was an idiot ... Ross doesn't emphasize indicator functions nearly enough. For the exercise of $X=$number of $1$'s in $n$ rolls, $Y=$number of $2$'s in $n$ rolls, he asked for the covariance. I told my students to compute $E[XY]$ by conditioning. But the problem is very easy with indicator functions. And I didn't think of it before I wrote the problem set.
@Mike: So you want to beat up Pedro and me ... ?
 
@TedShifrin No, but I've got no choice if I want to preserve Hatcher's honor... sorry.
By the way, I'm TAing linear algebra next quarter... not the intro-for-engineers one, the upper division math-majors one.
 
I'm not dishonoring @Hatcher. He fits three books into one standard-size book. I therefore call it terse.
 
@Hatcher? :P
 
Good, you'll learn some linear algebra, @Mike.
oops, it's a reflex to type @ ... GRR.
 
7:05 PM
At UCLA this is also the first proof-based class. I'm mostly excited because I hear the upper division students are much more motivated than my calculus class...
 
I would have thought so, but based on 1/3 of my diff geo and probability students this past year, I don't think it's universally true, @Mike.
 
@TedShifrin I think you would have to work really, really hard to write a book on fundamental groups that's 2/3 as long as Hatcher... or a book on singular homology and cohomology...
Or a book on the amount of homotopy theory he does.
 
I'm saying: He does a ton of stuff ... more than any other algebraic topology book by far. To fit it all in requires terseness.
 
@Ted I was lucky to have a great explanationary book attached, made by my own university, which I have lost. It had tons of exercises solved in it via indicator functions, and many exercises given generally had to be solved that way.
Sometimes it really simplifies things
Like in that case..
 
Really? More than any other algebraic topology book? What in particular are you thinking of?
When I'm talking about his book, to clarify, I'm not talking about the extra sections... just the main chapters.
 
7:07 PM
@Studentmath, if I were not quitting and were teaching Probability again, I would definitely emphasize them earlier.
 
ok, i don't even get the definition of a cell complex
 
On the final, I'm going to write a few problems where I tell them to use indicator functions, @Studentmath.
 
it's way too complicated for me
 
you need to work out lots of examples, as @Mike told you, @Balarka.
Sphere and torus are good examples.
And to realize that you can do different cell complex structures on the same space (e.g., sphere, torus).
 
how can i devise an example if i don't understand the definition>
 
7:09 PM
Hatcher devises a lot for you. You use these examples to illustrate and understand the definition.
 
@Ted They are my first-go-to method when it comes to a bit complex expectation/variance problems, I think they will get how useful they are just with a couple of questions directing them to use that indeed
I wonder why Ross doesn't emphasizes them. He does leave a remark here and there, but not more
 
torus is understandable. just take a 0-dim cell complex and then form a 1-dim cell complex by making up the fundamental domain and then go toa 2-dim cell complex by thinking of the previous fundamental domain as the boundary of some open set and identify
 
I just wish I had emphasized them more earlier and given specific exercises ... more than Ross ... @Studentmath.
 
why is sphere a cell complex?
 
Precisely for the reason he told you. You can collapse the boundary.
 
7:11 PM
OR you can make the sphere by starting with a $0$-cell and a $1$-cell (as you did in the case of the torus).
 
@Ted actually, if they know how to solve things the harder way, they might just appreciate them more now, if they do keep doing probability they will obviously get used to them one way or another
 
what do you mean by "collapse the boundary"?
 
Yeah, @Studentmath, but it's bad teaching on my part not to bring this all to the forefront before the end of the course.
 
that every loop is retractable?
@TedShifrin how so?
 
@BalarkaSen You attach the boundary of the n-cell by the map $S^{n-1} \to \{*\}$. What this does is identify every point on the boundary to a single point, i.e., collapsing it to a point.
 
7:12 PM
@Balarka: For what I said, how do you make a sphere if you have a circle sitting there?
 
well, suspend it
 
(I'm talking about the $2$-dimensional sphere, not higher dimension.)
 
lol
 
Fancy language, @Balarka. What does that mean you're doing?
 
$S^1 \times [0, 1]$ and identify $S^1 \times \{i\}$ to a point for $i = 0, 1$
 
7:14 PM
Do you have a picture in your head for this?
 
Sure. I know what a suspension is
I computed the fundamental group a few days ago
 
So you put a cone on top and a cone on the bottom.
 
He's asking you what the picture is.
 
Sure, two cones pasted
 
Cone = $2$-cell.
 
7:15 PM
Ah!
 
smiles
 
That must make sense
 
"Must"?
 
OK, I'm going to have no fun for an hour. Be back later.
 
@TedShifrin leave us on pieces?
 
7:16 PM
OK, now go write down the actual cell structure we just talked about. How many cells are there in various dimensions, and what are the attaching maps to the skeleta of lower dimension? (i.e., what are the attaching maps of the 2-cells to the circle?)
When I was learning this I only got to talk to a professor about it twice a week. This gave me plenty of time to work out examples, like why the sphere is a cell complex, before asking... Maybe I should only talk to you twice a week :)
 
:(
so be it. i am going to go and write down the explicit maps then.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:12 PM
If we have a group $Z/nZ$, can we generate it using generators $a_1,a_2,\dots$ such that $a_1 a_2\dots=n$?
Generators $\langle \{a_1,a_2,\dots\}\rangle$. This is clearer
 
What are generators of Z_n?
@UserX
 
9:27 PM
Integers that will generate Z_n
@Swapnil Tripathi i.e $\Bbb Z/6\Bbb Z$ can be generated with $\langle \{2,3\}\rangle$
5
Q: General Solution of $y'(x)+p(x)e^{r(x) y(x)}=q(x)$

UserXI solved the case for the non-homogenous constant coefficients case and I wondered if there is a way to find a general solution to a non-constant coefficient case. I don't know how to approach this at all, the substitution $y(x)=\frac{\log (v(x))}{r(x)}$ gets problematic immediately.

I see this answer as an accept to grab the bounty, asking for a clarification in an answer last minutes before the bounty ends. What should I do?
Attempt*
 
9:47 PM
Don't worry. You get one extra day after the bounty to accept an answer. Ask the commentors to expand as an answer.
@UserX
 
I went to the meta chat and they resolved it
Can you resolve my group theory question so I can rest tonight? @SwapnilTripathi
 
Ok. So what is the set of integers that generate Z_n?
Do you know some property of such elements?
 
I can't tell if you're asking me if they exist and I know them or if they exist in general
Let me reform the question
 
Sure, because I think I got a wrong idea about your doubt. I'm sure @amWhy will help you. Hey there! :)
 
Will there always exist generators $\langle \{a_1,a_2,\dots\}\rangle$ such that $a_1a_2\dota=n$ that generate $Z_n$?
amWhy does not visit chat I think
 
9:54 PM
Hello, @SwapnilTripathi!
 
Or maybe she does. Hey @amWhy can you answer me the above question?
 
@UserX Haven't visited much in the past few months... and I'm a "she" ;-)
3
 
@UserX Yes, take $a_1 = 1, a_2 = n$.
 
Haha, that's why I prefer using the name in the midst of the statement.
 
Hey @amWhy!!! I want to show that the algebraic set $V$ of $K^n$ is irreducible iff $I(V)$ is a prime ideal.
That's what I have tried:

We suppose that $I(V)$ is a prime ideal and $V$ is reducible. That means that there are two non-empty subsets $V_1,V_2$ of $V$ such that $V=V_1 \cup V_2$. Then, $I(V)=I(V_1 \cup V_2)=I(V_1) \cap I(V_2)$.
We have that $V_1 \subset V \Rightarrow I(V) \subset I(V_1)$ and $V_2 \subset V \Rightarrow I(V) \subset I(V_2)$
How can we find a contradiction?
 
9:58 PM
@MikeMiller that makes sense... thanks
 
@AmWhy What is the origin of your name?
 
Reminds me of amway. ;)
@Committingtoachallenge
 
I don't know who or what that is sorry Swapnil xD
 
A marketing company.
 
10:08 PM
Why = Y presumably
 
We'll never know
 
UserX asking Am Y(presumably) about the name game! Interesting. :P
 
10:26 PM
@SwapnilTripathi Bull's Eye.
 
Hi folks
I need to understand normed space and topology can someone help me?
 
So it is MY(Presumably) the persons initials?
Mary Yates
 
Hello guys. A moderator on a math forum pointed out errors in some stuff. But I can't quite see what he means, and he's not going to answer me anymore, probably. First, he said that both @Balarka's and my proof of this lemma :

If $\displaystyle \lim_{x \to \infty} \prod_{n\le x} f(n)$ and $g(m) \sim h(m)$, then $$\displaystyle \lim_{m\to \infty} \frac{\prod_{n\le g(m)} f(n)}{\prod_{n<h(m)} f(n)}=1 $$

are wrong, and retain the same error. More precisely, he said the lemma itself is incorrect, namely I need more conditions to reache the desired conclusion.
(ok, apparently that linky thing doesn't work here)
 
10:47 PM
[It seems to only work with the http maybe](http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/36/mathematics)

[testing with http](http)
 
@VincenzoOliva first off, "if limit" doesn't make sense; if limit what? if the limit is 1?
second, in your first "proof" you cancelled things incorrectly, the last product should be f(n) from n=h(m) to h(m)+o(h(m))
 
@anon There was supposed to be "exists", too tired. I've also thrown away an answer for this, lol
@anon Thanks for that, I've actually never dealt with asymptotics yet, that one is Balarka's
Fixing it like that, would it be valid?
 
well, having a valid proof and a correct conclusion are different things
assuming g and h tend to infinity, your conclusion is true
but I'd rather see more explanation as to why
the explanation I'd use, is that if lim P and lim Q exist, the second nonzero, then lim(P/Q) exists and is equal to (lim P)/(lim Q)
 
is that a good book
CLASSICAL
ANALYSIS ON
NORMED SPACES
 
then just explain that the num and denom of your thing both tend to the same limit (and we are assuming \prod f(n) is not zero either)
 
10:58 PM
for Tsoy-Wo Ma
 
@VincenzoOliva Is this your proof of the Riemann hypothesis?(equivalent statement)
 
@anon Perfect, thanks. So you say fixing that last product, and explaining it better is enough for a valid proof? Any idea as to what that moderator referred to? In the other paper, probably there is an error when I say "implies" (damn professor of mine, wondering why I still tell him anything), he said there is an easy counterexample to it, but I haven't really tried to figure it out as I had the other one.

@Committingtoachallenge It is the second lemma of the paper.
@anon * in the other "proof"
 
@VincenzoOliva your hypotheses include that g, h tend to infinity, that f is positive and \prod f(n) exists and is nonzero, right?
 
@anon Right
 
cuz if you allow \prod f(n) to be zero I believe you can get counterexamples
 
11:13 PM
@anon Well, let's say it isn't. In fact, the actual thing I care about later on in the proof, is like $ a(n) \prod f(n) $, where $\prod f(n)$ alone is equal to $0$, but multiplied by that infinite function it becomes non-zero, so I think there's no problem
 
...
 
Well, there actually isn't
In the end the claim is like $ \lim_{m\to \infty} k a(m) \prod_{n \le g(m)} f(n) = \lim_{m\to \infty} k a(m) \prod_{n < h(m)} f(n)$
with the usual $g(m) \sim h(m) $
 
@anon HARRO HOOMAN.
 
Correct if I'm wrong
$sup (U_n) = 0 \implies U_n = 0$
 
@anon Still alive? lol
 
11:27 PM
@pourjour Explain?
What if $U_0=0$ and $U_n=-1/n,n>0$?
 
@PedroTamaroff $U_n $is bounded
 
@pourjour Yes, my sequence is bounded.
 
@PedroTamaroff so what is the condition to make my statement correct?
 
@pourjour $U_n\geqslant 0$.
 
@PedroTamaroff ok what if $\left\| u \right\|_\infty=sup_{n\in\mathbb{N}}N(u_n) $I'm in a normed space
 
11:34 PM
Well, $\lVert u\rVert_\infty =0\iff N(u_n)=0$ for each $n,\iff u_n=0$ for each $n$, because $N$ is presumably a norm.
 
Hey!!!
I want to show that if $I,J$ are ideals of $K[x_1, x_2, \dots , x_n]$, then it stands that $V(I \cap J)=V(I) \cup V(J)$.

To show the inclusion $\subseteq$ I started like that:

Let $x \in V(I \cap J)$. That means that $\forall f \in I \cap J : f(x)=0$

But... how could we continue?
 
Since $I\cap J\subseteq I$, then $V(I\cap J)\supseteq V(I)$.
Similarily, $V(I\cap J)\supseteq V(J)$.
So it holds that $V(I)\cup V(J)\subseteq V(I\cap J)$.
 
@PedroTamaroff I'm really a noob where did you learn that?
 
Recall that $V$ is order reversing.
@pourjour I am using the definitions, that's all.
 
@PedroTamaroff Any books or references please?
 
11:38 PM
@pourjour Any booked on normed spaces.
 
@PedroTamaroff I beg your pardon but do you have titles at moment in your mind?
 
Not really.
 
@PedroTamaroff So, does it always stand that if $A \subseteq K, B \subseteq K \Rightarrow A \cup B \subseteq K$ ?
 
@PedroTamaroff Thanks anyway for your help
 
@evinda What do you think?
@pourjour No problem.
 
11:46 PM
@evinda, what does it mean to say $x \in A \cup B$?
 
@PedroTamaroff @KajHansen Yes, because $x \in A \rightarrow x \in K \Rightarrow x \in A \cup B \rightarrow x \in K$, so $A \cup B \subset K$, right? :)
Or am I wrong?
 
What do you think?
 
@PedroTamaroff That it is like that..
 
Great.
 
how come, in S_5 that you count (1 2)(3 4) and (3 4)(1 2) only once. But you count both (1 2)(3 4 5) and (3 4 5)(1 2)?
 
11:51 PM
@PedroTamaroff Nice!!! And how can I show that $V(I \cap J) \subseteq V(I) \cup V(J)$ ?
 
@evinda Well, first I'd show that $V(IJ)=V(I\cap J)$.
And that if $I=(f_1,\ldots,f_n)$, then $x\in V(I)\iff f_i(x)=0$ for each $i=1,\ldots,n$.
 
as in you have 4!/(2*2*2) elements with the cycle structure (--)(--)
 
Then $V(IJ)=V(I)\cup V(J)$ should be evident.
@JustDanyul No, you don't.
 
but, you have 5!/(2*3) elements with the cycle structure (--)(---)
@Pedro no? im getting tremendously confused now hah :D
 
@JustDanyul Explain your reasoning.
Suppose you want to count the number of permutations with cycle type $(ab)(cd)$ in $S_5$.
First step: pick a $4$ subset of $\{1,2,3,4,5\}$. This can be done in $\binom 54=5$ ways.
Next, pick a $2$ subset of $4$, this can be done in $\binom 4 2=6$ ways, and this determines the pair $(ab)$, which are the two elements you chose, and also the other pair $(cd)$, which is the pair you didn't choose.
Finally, you need to count repetitions: inside the parentheses, $(ab)=(ba)$, and $(ab)(cd)=(cd)(ab)$ since the cycles are disjoint.
 
11:58 PM
@Pedro sorry! I actually meant 5!/(2*3)
 
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