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12:00 AM
@WillJagy why was it deleted?
 
@WillJagy Hello sire. "Can't please everyone...."?
 
@TobiasKildetoft, the OP asked about proving some huge number prime, which I thought was a waste of time in the first place. But I also claimed the task was impossible with current computers. A guy called TonyK gradually found evdence that the task was quite do-able and told me it was "time to recant" So I looked up the phrase "Mea Culpa" and typed i the whole prayer in Latin, using a poetry environment. I thought it was pretty good, and appropriate for the conversation that had taken place
 
@WillJagy I liked it too! =D
 
@Peter, yes, you wrote that it was priceless. I do make an effort.
 
@WillJagy Did you see my problem above?
 
12:06 AM
just a minute
@PeterTamaroff, the corrections robjohn mentioned give all you need. Note that the two constraints give an ellipse lying in a plane in $\mathbb R^3,$ so the extrema of distance (squared) from the origin are the semiminor and semimajor axes of that.
 
@WillJagy Oh...
I think I got it. I will use Euler's theorem again.
@WillJagy I have a doubt.
 
@WillJagy hi willie!
 
anybody want to help me figure out this question? I think the answer will be relatively straightforward once I figure out how to start.
 
The quadratic form is homogeneous of degree $2$, the dot product is homogeneous of degree $1$ and the norm is homogeneous of degree $2$, so upon multiplication by $\bf x$, the equation $$0=\nabla f(x)+\lambda_1 \nabla h(x)+\lambda_2\nabla g(x)$$ becomes $$0=2f(x)+2\lambda_1 h(x)+\lambda_2 g(x)$$ But we have that $h(x)=xAx^t$ is $=1$ over the region and $g(x)=0$, so I get $$0=f(x)+\lambda_1$$, yet I have no restriction on $\lambda_2$. So I might as well chose it to be $0$?
I am using that if $f(x)$ is homogeneous of degree $p$; that is $f(ax)=a^pf(x)$, then $x\cdot \nabla f(x)=pf(x)$. @WillJagy
 
@AlexanderGruber cool
 
12:22 AM
@Charlie thanks :) it actually comes from some real-world work i'm doing this summer.
 
@AlexanderGruber fascinating
 
 
1 hour later…
1:41 AM
@anon
 
mmyes?
 
@anon Do you think you can help my with a problem of extrema?
 
blegh
 
@anon =)
So...?
I think I almost got it.
 
might as well present it
 
1:43 AM
It is as follows
Let $f(x_1,x_2,x_3)=x_1^2+x_2^2+x_3^2$
I ought to find the maximum and minimum under the constraints:
$b_1x_1+b_2x_2+b_3x_3=0$
$\sum_{i=1}^3\sum_{j=1}^3 a_{ij}x_ix_j=1$
Where $a_{ij}=a_{ji}$.
Now, let $H(x)$ be the quadratic form, and let $G(x)=b\dot x$. Here $b$ is nonzero.
 
so $\bf b\cdot x=0$ and ${\bf x}^TA{\bf x}=1$
 
@anon Aye.
 
what is it, pirate day?
inb4 "every day is pirate day"
 
Then $0=\nabla f(x)+\lambda \nabla H(x)+\mu \nabla G(x)$ is the equation.
 
so H(x) = x^T A x?
 
1:46 AM
All functions are homogeneous, so by Euler's theorem I get upon multiplying by $x$ (dot prod) that
@anon Yep. $-1$ vanishes so I can use that.
$0=2\nabla f(x)+2\lambda H(x)+\mu G(x)$ and substituting the constraints it is $$0=2\nabla f(x)+2\lambda$$
So $\lambda =-f(x)$
@anon =)
 
"A property of completely separable mad families" sounds like some therapists are needed
 
@anon I need to find $\mu$ now!
@anon Link?
 
how did you go from $\nabla G(x)$ to $G(x)$? shouldn't $\nabla G(x)=b$?
also $\nabla H(x)=2Ax$ (since $A=A^T$), not $2H(x)$
 
@anon Man, you didn't read.
If $f(ax)=a^pf(x)$ and $f$ is differentiable, it follows $x\cdot \nabla f(x)=pf(x)$. I used that, i.e. dot multiplied by $x$.
 
$f$ is homog in 3 variables so $p=3$?
 
1:57 AM
@anon $f$ is homogeneous of degree $2$. $f(ax)=a^2f(x)$.
 
oh duh
squares
so yeah, $\lambda = -f(x)$
(you get $x\cdot\nabla f(x)=2f(x)$ right?)
 
@anon Aha.
@anon Aha.
And the same for $x\cdot H(x)=2H(x)$.
Whilst more obvisouly we have $x\cdot \nabla g(x)=g(x)$.
So, I am missing $\mu$.
 
you need to differentiate $\Lambda(x_1,x_2,x_3,\lambda,\mu)=f(x)+\lambda (H(x)-1)+\mu G(x)$ wrt $\mu$ and $\lambda$ too no?
 
@anon I don't think so.
@robjohn has forsaken us all.
 
the wikipedia article on lagrange multipliers says you take nabla wrt the introduced parameters as well
oh, but then that just gives us the original conditions, duh
 
2:14 AM
@anon =)
@anon Do you know how to use RSA?
 
vaguely
 
@anon Tomorrow I should be learning how it works.
 
or you could just read wikipedia
 
@anon Hehehe... yeah.
 
@PeterTamaroff Well, I hope I'm going strong at $93$!
 
2:25 AM
@amWhy He! I'm off.
 
does this make sense?
 
@anon hi ani
 
hello charlie
 
@anon how was today?
 
2:36 AM
my today was hours, yes.
very hours.
I am attending this conference and today I liked two talks.
 
@anon my mistake, forgive me
@anon seems interesting
 
my brother's high school graduation parties go all weekend long
 
@anon oww
@anon are you good?
 
tired but good
 
@anon it's holiday here, thursday and friday
 
2:46 AM
oh, what holiday?
 
@anon corpus Christi
 
ah, I was raised catholic, that sounds vaguely familiar
 
@anon yes, it's a catholic holiday
@anon have a good night, anon, and a good day tomorrow
 
thanks
 
3:35 AM
merh
 
4:15 AM
@PeterTamaroff forsaken? I only see one page.
 
i can't figure out the answer to my dang problem
 
@AlexanderGruber whats that?
the problem that is
 
this, i've been working on it all evening. this is what i get for trying to do non-algebra problems.
 
leo
Does someone speak Spanish here?
 
4:36 AM
un poco si
 
leo
How would you translate "f is null homotopic"?
"f es nula homotópica"?
 
5:01 AM
yea
looks good
 
hows life
 
*how$\Huge\text{'}$s
 
i dont care
why do competition math
 
I don't see the point of competition math unless you find it fun.
 
I love having the opportunity to be guided by expert coach(es) to achieve specific goals.
 
5:12 AM
@Ethan *$\Huge\text{I}$ don$\Huge\text{'}$t
 
lol
I don't have a laptop
 
@Ethan How did your paper/presentation go?
 
:9684181 There you go. Competition math would certainly cut into your porn time.
 
nvm
 
The main reason I'm taking it is because Feynman took it and went on to become an extraordinary physicist.
 
5:15 AM
nvm, I guess thats an over generalization
 
I think the porn industry needs a mathematician, then they could put cool things on the chalk boards and white boards (in the relevant scenes).
 
@Bageer I was joking, I don't really watch porn that much
lol
@Bageer my mom got me a white board because I use alot of paper, I am to lazy to use it cause I have to stand up
 
It would be an interesting way to present the recent proof to the abc conjecture
(alleged proof)
@Ethan I never used my whiteboard either, paper is just more convenient., so i donated mine to my schools math club
 
@Bageer You should suggest this to Mochizuki; instead of publishing it in traditional means, release a series of porn videos shot in the classroom with bits and pieces of his papers on the boards.
 
@Bageer I just re-use old english assignments and spanish homework when its just scribleings
 
5:22 AM
@user1 I think I will, I am all about avant garde mathematical presentations.
@Ethan I almost exclusivly use printerpaper (new or from old assignments) or go straight to LaTeX.
 
@Bageer no way same here lol I use that at home printer paper
 
@Ethan *scribblings
 
Only in class because I never have paper
 
@Ethan I have noticed a lot of "math people" do that (use printer paper) but not many other people do.
Are you in class right now?
 
@Bageer no thats pretty old lol like a month ago
@Raindrop How did you manage to be an undergraduate at ucla while only being 17
 
5:30 AM
hey @Ethan whats up
 
@DanZimm not much lol
 
how you been?
 
bored lol alot of finals and stuff but its over now
 
ah thats good
any math finals that you crushed? xD
 
lol I took an Ap test for math instead
@DanZimm how about you how has your life been lol
 
5:41 AM
ah nice and not bad
playing some dota reading some stuff
 
@Ethan I attended the PERMATApintar National Gifted Centre.
 
5:57 AM
@Raindrop im jelly
 
@Raindrop what is that?
 
clearly something better than public edu which is what i got xD
 
Should I study How to Prove It: A Structured Approach - Velleman in preparation for the Putnam?
 
You should study what ever makes you happy
lol troll advice
Do what feels right
Listen to your heart
 
@Raindrop I was thinking about taking the putnam next semester, but I am not too sure (already taking too many classes+work+time to study what I want). Have you taken it before?(guessing you havn't by your questions). I think you should be asking the expert coach if that is a book you should study.
 
@Bageer the putnam is pretty difficult
@awllower im working on that atm xD
 
Haha
Looking forward then. :D
 
@DanZimm what is that a linear congruence problem
 
gcd problem
its frustrating me xD
 
6:15 AM
A temporary depart now.
 
i study analysis not number theory so this is definately difficult for me
 
No wait let me think lol
 
I think it requires some strange way of manipulating equations, but, for the tilme being, I cannot see how.
Hope some smart one can come up with an ingenious solution.
 
@DanZimm I have heard that. I figured I would do it for the chance to do well (I hear if you do well you have a good chance in getting into any grad school) plus the teach who does this putnam prep class wants me to do it, although competition math isn't really my interest so I am still undecided. I think I will be looking at some past putnam problems, over the summer, to see if studying for the exam would even be fun for me.
 
well good luck!~
im studying for it too :D
@Ethan race to see who gets it xD
 
6:22 AM
@allower Here is an explict solution
 
!!
 
Take $$n=\frac{\gcd(b,c)-b}{c}$$
This will work for all $a,b,c$ when $\gcd(a,b,c)=1$
Substitute it in for $n$ and you will get
$$\gcd(a,(gcd(b,c))=1$$
But $$\gcd(a,b,c)=\gcd(a,(gcd(b,c))$$
 
What a surpise!
I think this fits well into an answer!
 
You can get multiple solutions by adding multiples of $a$ times $c$ to both sides
 
@Ethan damn you and your superior math abilities
xD
 
6:24 AM
A technical detail: How are you sure that $n$ is an integer?*
 
oh damn
wait...
 
multiply by c
 
@awllower lol I am being retarded let me figure this out
Im stupid
no wait
one sec let me think
Damnet I have to think of somthing else
one sec
 
@awllower is there any specification on $a,b,c$? like $a < b < c$ ?
 
As far as I know, ther eis none.
 
6:31 AM
Ok so we know $$1=\gcd(a,b,c)=\gcd(a,\gcd(b,c))$$
 
@DanZimm It is concerned with the integral matrices of determinant 1, so there is no such specific restriction I suppose.
Yes
 
and that bezouts theorem says there is always solutions (x,n) to the equation $bx+nc=gcd(b,c)$
 
Indeed.
 
So we know there exists $(x,n)$ so that
 
@Ethan we know that $\gcd(\gcd(a,b),c) = 1$
 
6:32 AM
$\gcd(a,bx+nc)=1$
 
Right.
 
So we have there exists integers $x$ and $n$ so that, that is true
 
@Ethan I coulda told you that much and I didn't know that thm xD
 
also we know that if $\gcd(a,k)=1$, then $\gcd(a,k+ja)=1$ for integers j so that both terms are positive
So we can reduce the rhs modulo $a$
 
ok
 
6:34 AM
We need to reduce $x$ modulo $a$ so that it equals $1$, that would give $\gcd(a,b+nc)=1$
I don't know if this is possible let me think one sec
 
And then this is the problem.
Al right.
 
it has to do with the fact that $\gcd(\gcd(a,b),c) = 1$
 
I don't know that for a fact its just a guess lol
 
no thats a fact
 
There are most certainly multiple ways to do it, if its true
 
6:36 AM
oh oh
ya ofc theres multiple ways to prove it
 
@DanZimm Yes I know the statement is a fact, I don't know if that is a way we can use to prove it lol
 
but that statement is true given $\gcd(a,b,c) = 1$
xD
 
Yes I know, I was refering to using that as a technique to prove it
It was a guess that this might be an ok way to proceed with the problem
 
oh duh
so
 
wait
If $x$ is prime to $a$, we can multiply by its inverse to reduce $x$ to be congruent to 1 modulo a, right?
So this solves the problem!
 
6:38 AM
Well we know there exists integers $x$ and $n$ so that, $\gcd(a,bx+nc)=1$
@awllower yes, but how do we know x is coprime to $a$
 
$\gcd(\gcd(a,b),c) = 1$ and $\gcd(a,b) = v \neq 1$
 
Because $x$ could be chosen so that ap+bx=cy=1.
 
@awllower x is not chosen
 
wait we need to reduce $x$ modulo a$ so it equals one
 
its given
 
6:39 AM
ap+q(bx+nc)=1
 
We don't get to chose $x$ and $n$ we just know they exists from bezouts identity
We know some propertys of $x$ though
I think we should figure those out and see if they can be used, if not find another way to proceed I am to lazy to do either though
You can multiply both sides by $\gcd(a,b,c)$ or what ever sense it equals 1
this is prolly useless
We can get new solutions by
$(x+\frac{kb}{\gcd(b,c)},y-\frac{kb}{\gcd(b,c)})$
x+kb/gcd(b,c)=1?
does there exist a k so that that is true
k can be an arbitrary integer
i don't know and i am to lazy to do the work, this problem is probably very simple and I am just being stupid this happens to me in the morning, I am prolly going to have to go back and relearn a bunch of basic number theory now because i feel dumb
 
Well.
I think you just, or almost, outsmarted us...
In any case, I think it is time to have my lunch now.
Later.
 
@awllower I wouldn't proceed using any techniques I suggested, I have a feeling this is very elementry and I am just being retarded
lol
 
:D
 
What are some examples where $n$ cannot be $\pm 1$?
 
6:47 AM
anon always finds counter examples lol
If the statements are false
 
anyways, so we know $\gcd(\gcd(a,b),c) = 1$ and $\gcd(a,b) = v \neq 1$ so it follows that $v \mid b \iff \exists \; m : v = mb$ so then pick $n = v$ and it follows that $b + vc = b + mbc$ and now i lost my train of thpought
 
@Ethan I was just wondering if we can find a pattern in $n$ numerically.
 
Sounds like a pain in the ass to do numerically there are to many variables to many special cases
 
3,6,7 -> $n = 1$
 
I would just wait, it is probably very simple, I mean its a gcd problem how deep can it be?
 
6:49 AM
xD
lmAO
 
cannot
 
I hate when somthing comes up that I forget how to do, but I have some knowledge on
 
@DanZimm I want to see what a nontrivial $n$ would look like.
 
I force myself to go back and relearn a bunch of shit
 
We know that $\gcd(a,\gcd(b,c))=1$. Let $b+c=(b,c)(P+Q)$. Note that $(P,Q)=1$. By Dirichlet's Theorem on primes in arithmetic progression there are infinitely many primes of the form $P \mod Q$ or in other words $\pi=P+nQ$. Obviously there is a $\pi$ such that $(a, \pi)=1$ and $\gcd(a,\gcd(b,c)\pi)=1$. Well $\gcd(b,c)\pi=\gcd(b,c)(P+nQ)=b+nc$. $\square$
 
6:51 AM
Lol really your using dirichlets theorem
The fuck
 
Some high powered shit. Lol
 
Talk about killing a fly with a bull dozer
I am to lazy to check on your proof btw
i should probably go to bed
I think people have a tendency to thumbs up things that look complicated but they can't or are to lazy to read, just because it looks like the op put alot of time in
 
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
I guess all you would need to prove is a weaker version of dirichlet's that says there are at least two primes instead of infinitely many.
Not sure if that would be easy, my number theory background isn't that strong
 
or your reducing it modulo a
until it is
 
Its not
 
6:55 AM
ye just do that
 
necessarily
 
Your just reducing it modulo a until it is equal to a prime?
 
We know that $P$ and $Q$ are relativly prime so we can use diriclet
on $P$ and $Q$
 
yes
 
@Bageer why are $P,Q$ relatively prime?
 
6:56 AM
Oh yes I see
 
Because we factored the greatest common divisor
 
Because $p$
and $q$ are
 
where?
 
$b/\gcd(b,c)$, $c/\gcd(b,c)$
 
$b=P\gcd(b,c)$
 
6:57 AM
@Bageer sorry I'm probably being an idiot
how are you getting that? I don't see that anywhere
 
@DanZimm Where what?
 
Yes @awllower Bageer's solution works, but I think its over kill
 
@Bageer Minor detail: You either have to mention the symmetry between $b$ and $c$ or explicitly state that $P$ is tied to $b$ and $Q$ is tied to $c$.
 
where did we factor out the gcd?
 
Its totally overkill
 
6:59 AM
all you need is $P+nQ$ to be coprime to $a$
for some integer $n$
 
@Bageer I don't understand why we can say that $\exists \; P,Q$ so that $b+c = \gcd(b,c) ( P + Q )$
 
making it prime ensures this, but the existence of a prime requires dirichlets
 

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