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10:00 AM
No, you've got me there.
 
@Skullpatrol I am now :-)
 
@robjohn Glad to see you're back.
 
@Skullpatrol I still do not really understand the question you were asking, I guess.
 
It's reboot time. Be back in a moment.
 
hey robjohn! I guess I should go now :)
 
10:06 AM
@tb Does this refer to Asaf's activity?
 
@robjohn I posted a detailed explanation of it here. anon has given a convincing answer already, but I'm looking for " the general selection condition for the factors of the quadratic term, and the corresponding ordering of the factors of the constant term."
 
@tb yeah, we can't be here at the same time :-)
 
My conjecture has been settled positively.
 
@KannappanSampath no, when you look at the front page in the activity mode displaying 50 questions, the question at the bottom is usually 2-3 hours old these days. Today it's seven hours old.
 
@tb Are you guys like antiparticles, if you meet you will annihilate each other?
 
10:08 AM
@tb Oh, I see.
 
@Skullpatrol Okay, so your question was about the order of the numbers. Well, since $(ax+b)(cx+d)=(cx+d)(ax+b)$, if we switch both $a$ with $c$ and $b$ with $d$, then we get the same thing. We only need to swap one pair.
 
Haha, that's exactly what I've said. Twice now.
 
Didn't David Wheeler say exactly that too?
 
@anon and you were right :-)
 
10:12 AM
and I think I might have said something similar. I'd have to check the transcript.
 
I fail to parse the lonely "so" that immediately succeeds my message.
 
@Skull: Would I be correct in interpreting your "general selection condition" question as: "we know to fix the order of the quadratic terms, but how do we know which order to fix"? If so, the answer to that is in my answer: it's completely arbitrary.
 
@KannappanSampath your problem is in trying to parse what Asaf says :-)
 
@KannappanSampath What robjohn said.
 
@robjohn I was kind of inviting Asaf to elaborate what he meant. Never mind, I failed, as usual.
 
10:14 AM
There is nothing to elaborate really.
I merely indicated that I returned from the reboot.
 
I'm not really here. About to suffer through one more hour of PDO lecture
 
Hmph, I am sorry. I did not understand that you meant it!
@MattN Remember what I last said on this. It helps!
: D
 
What's the O for?
 
@MattN Suffer? that should be a fun lecture :-)
 
Now i need to figure out why i want to factor that homo at all
It could be worse, i guess
 
10:18 AM
I want to see someone invent the "mofomorphism." Then we can say things like "factor that mofo."
 
@MattN factoring a homogeneous polynomial is like factoring any other... :-p
 
I think that epimorphisms are epic.
 
@anon Thank you for your detailed answer. Allow me some time to think about it.
 
For example i could fail to prove that homos on s1 look like z to the n
 
That sounds like something I could fail to prove too.
 
10:20 AM
Hey @ymar Can we do linear Algebra?
 
I'll have to quit maths
 
@MattN Holy, will you delete that message?
Are you crazy?
Math is fun!
 
Yeah, at least set theory.
 
@KannappanSampath Well, for a moment we can. (I'll have to go soon.) I just wanted to say that what we tried to attack yesterday had been a conjecture for some time. I saw the proof -- it's beyond my grasp.
 
@ymar Any link, where I can look?
 
10:22 AM
@MattN Hi, then no one's gonna help me with complex analysis and I'll have to quit too.
 
hhh
@DavidWallace R has polar.plot and radial.plot -- trying to investigate which one...and how.
 
@KannappanSampath Yes, wait a minute.
@KannappanSampath books.google.pl/…
 
Hmph.... Google won't let me see it!
 
@KannappanSampath What do you mean?
I see it perfectly well...
 
The page you linked me to exactly one of those I cannot view from this region of the globe!
 
10:26 AM
@KannappanSampath does this link work?
 
@tb Yes. Thank you. : )
 
@ymar: "You have either reached a page that is unavailable for viewing or reached your viewing limit for this book."
 
That's weird...
 
I think which pages are available or not for viewing varies with time and place.
 
@KannappanSampath OK, so we can talk about it some time later.
 
10:28 AM
What if you replace "pl" in the URL with "com"?
 
@anon I used to think so too, but then I was using the same pages from a book for like a month.
 
@ymar Sure. It' more like what my combinatorics professor would write on the board from a prepared set of notes and say, "It's obvious I say".
 
Wait, now the page in ymar's link shows up for me. It didn't the first time. shrug
 
For me too. Now. Holy, they probably worked up teddy!
 
So the link with "com" works and the "pl" one does not? I'll have to rememeber that.
 
10:32 AM
Not necesssarily. But it's always worth a crack.
 
@KannappanSampath So what about linear algebra?
 
I still haven't sussed out all of google's redirection rules; but it seems to me that using a google server in Poland from somewhere in Asia isn't the best idea in the world.
 
@DavidWallace I had no idea!
 
@ymar I would like some to criticise the notes, I am writing up.
 
@robjohn @anon So it is arbitrary which pair of: a with c or b with d, we swap. But once that choice has been made the other pair of terms must be combined in every possible way?
 
10:34 AM
@KannappanSampath Anything particular?
 
@DavidWallace What I don't understand is why they don't clean up their mess when you use the linking function. You always have to do this manually...
 
Yeeha!
 
This is Elsevier's Link The two institutes that provide me access don't subscribe to this journal!
 
Sorry, just watching a rugby game on TV. My team scored in the last minute, to win 26-25.
 
Congratulations!
 
10:36 AM
@tb I'm not sure I understand.
 
@ymar Nothing as of now!
 
@KannappanSampath Wait, so the link failed to work in the end?
 
@ymar No, the google link tb gave me is robust and works. But, if we wanted to have the full article at our disposal, it is not a possibility!
 
@Skull: Once you pick which pair (quadratic or constant terms) to fix the order of, the other pair you have to check all of the different orders.
 
@DavidWallace There is this button in Google books that is supposed to give you a working link. But what it does is essentially copy the address from the browser navigation bar into some field and highlights it. They could remove all the unneeded clutter and replace the localized version by com, where there is an automatic redirect to your local Google server.
 
10:38 AM
@KannappanSampath Does it load only the first page?
 
@robjohn @annon I meant other pair of term's factors must be combined in every possible way.
 
@ymar Hmm, no the first two...
 
@tb I see what you mean. But they probably use all that clutter for their own nefarious purposes.
 
indeed.
 
@KannappanSampath Crap. I could see the whole article yesterday except for references. Now I see the first page only, but it doesn't say "those pages are not shown in this preview". It just says "loading..."
 
hhh
10:40 AM
@DavidWallace Moved the technical q here.
 
@anon In the example (-1)(-5) = 5 and (-5)(-1) = 5.
 
hhh
...about this here
 
Anyway the proof uses theorems I've never even heard of.
 
@ymar May be, we should ask someone who can access that Elsevier thingy! How sad! Why should we run for reading research papers.... They should be available for free easily!
 
@SKull: I already told you. If you fix the order of the quadratic terms (e.g. x,14x and 2x,7x, as opposed to 14x,x and 7x,2x), then you let the other pair vary (you have to check both -1,-5 and -5,-1). If, however, you fix the order of the constant terms (e.g. -1,-5 as opposed to -5,-1), then you have to check all of the orderings of quadratic terms: 14,1 and 1,14 and 2,7 and 7,2.
 
10:43 AM
@KannappanSampath I'll see if I can find it in that mathematical library later. Now let's see those notes of yours.
 
@anon So for setting up the first side of the table order does not matter, but for the second side of the table it does. Correct?
 
@ymar Are you comfortable with solvable groups?
 
@KannappanSampath Not at all...
 
@ymar Sure, just give me a few moments...
@ymar Oh, then this paper might be a tough nut to crack. When we start, we'll go over some definitions and important results then....
(BTW, this is my favourite part of group theory: this culminates in a beautiful result of Hall)
 
@Skull: Both tables include all possible orderings in my answer. It demonstrates that one half of the table is equivalent to the other half. Each column involves either fixing the quadratic terms one way (first table) or the constant terms one way (second table). You keep asking me things I've already answered.
 
10:46 AM
@KannappanSampath I'd be glad to do that!
 
@anon BTW Thanks for all your help, sometimes when you are struggling to understand something you don't listen to the person telling you the answer and I apologize for that.
 
@Skullpatrol - there are two taxis parked outside. They are going to provide transport home from the party, to two men and their wives. The men come out first, and it DOESN'T MATTER which man gets into which taxi. A minute later, the women come out. It's really important which woman gets into which taxi; otherwise, they both end up with the wrong man.
 
@Skullpatrol choose one pair to fix, the other pair must be permuted to give all possible match ups. It doesn't matter which pair you fix, the other pair needs to go through all the orders and choices.
 
But if the women came out first, it wouldn't matter which taxi each woman got into, but it would be important which taxi each MAN got into.
 
@robjohn I have corrected some errors. Please feel free to point out some more...
 
10:52 AM
@KannappanSampath Are we typo-hunting?
 
@DavidWallace Very appropriate analogy... thank you, it will help me remember this method.
 
@ymar Yes and if possible, shorten the length of the proof, or break a theorem into many useful small pieces...
 
3.1: "Of order" is idempotent -- it's enough to write it once. :)
 
:-)
corrected
 
@robjohn Thanks you for your patience and understanding of my confusion.
 
10:59 AM
The are typos in the second remark in 3.4
I think you meant "as a composition of bijections" instead of "as composition of bijection".
 
@ymar Yes, right.
 
I'm also not sure I understand the purpose of this remark.
"A composition of bijections is a bijection." Right, but also a composition of injections is an injection. What do we need the surjectivity for?
 
For fun!
 
@ymar well, it adds a bit of flavour; when I need to use such an argument, I could say using a similar argument as remark blah,....
@ymar I see this is a genuine question. I think you're right...
 
It is a genuine question. I think it makes it unclear where the proof happens.
 
11:07 AM
May be, in the spirit of Bourbaki, should I say that, in a finite dimensional case, an argument using the dimension formula is feasible?
 
@KannappanSampath Then you should give the argument. :)
 
@ymar I'll mark it and go over it another time for clarity as you say...
 
@KannappanSampath I have downloaded the newer version
 
@robjohn Oh, thank you... I was not here when your message popped up!
 
In 3.7 you need "$f^{p-1}(x)\neq 0$ implies that $f^i(x)\neq 0$ for $0\leq i<p-1$ but not conversely." With $\leq$ instead of $<$ as in the text, the converse actually holds. @KannappanSampath
 
11:16 AM
@robjohn Am I allowed to copy and paste some of this discussion into an answer of my posted question?
 
@ymar Let me look through ....
 
@Skullpatrol Sounds legal.
 
@DavidWallace Did you come up with that taxi analogy?
 
By converse, do you mean that, we actually have, if $f^i(x) \neq 0$ for $0 \le i \lt p-1$, then, $f^{p-1}(x) \neq 0$?
@ymar
 
@KannappanSampath No! We have $f^i(x)\neq 0$ for $0\leq i\leq p-1$ then $f^{p-1}(x)\neq 0.$
And this is what you wrote doesn't hold.
 
11:21 AM
Hmm...yes.
@ymar I know that, that's why I asked you if you were claiming that!
 
I'm not sure we understand each other.
Do you see the mistake I see in the text?
 
@ymar We do, The converse of the claim as stated in the text holds is what you had to say.
 
@KannappanSampath Yes.
 
Whereas, I wrote it does not.
 
Exactly. And changing $\leq$ to $<$ fixes this.
 
11:24 AM
And, this is the sensible way to correct rather than making converse hold!
@ymar Right...
 
@KannappanSampath Of course. The converse holds in a stupid way. We don't want such theorems stated. :)
 
@skull yes
 
@DavidWallace Cool.
 
Thank you @ymar. I'll make it a bit more long and let you and @robjohn know...
 
OK. I'll be going now. Goodbye all!
 
11:29 AM
Bye @ymar.
Have a good day ahead!
 
I can't decide whether the man or the woman is more intelligent.
 
11:59 AM
I think the tires are more intelligent ;-)
 
This is real torture. Reminds me in high school there was this chick that insisted that a Ferrari traveling at 100 km/h is faster than a Toyota traveling at 100 km/h.
 
My favourite part is when she thinks really hard, and decides that the answer is 58 minutes.
 
Everybody knows that a Ferrari is a faster car than a Toyota.
 
#1 Counted Sir.
 
12:16 PM
If a Ferrari and a Toyota are both stationary, and you ask someone which is faster, they'll say the Ferrari. Why should it be any different if they're both going 100km/h?
 
Sorry my phone died on me.
@KannappanSampath so I couldn't delete that.
 
Hmph. Matt drops in and writes a message and leaves! How I wish Matt had more time! : (
 
You wish, you don't wonder.
 
@AsafKaragila Thank you so much. I corrected it now.
 
Hmmm... Let's see how chatting on an iPad goes.
 
12:28 PM
@JonasTeuwen Does the ping work?
 
Yes.
 
Nice.
 
@Jonas: ahaha, this guy reminds me old JM's gravatar
 
@Ilya kagzila
 
12:32 PM
@BenjaminLim kak dela
that's it
 
kak dela
 
horosho
a u tebya?
 
ne ponimayu.
 
pryvyet
ya nez na yu
what is a u tebya?
@Ilya
 
"how about you"
 
12:33 PM
@ZhenLin You're malaysian right? youtube.com/watch?v=EA3Zn3XWfqk&feature=related
 
neznayu (without spaces)
 
yaneznayu
 
ya with a space, ya = I
oh, sorry
 
@ZhenLin My malaysian friend recommended me with this song
 
@Ilya 8-).
 
12:34 PM
ya_ne_znayu
 
@Ilya Some one was saying to me I was pronouncing ***** wrong
 
since "znayu" is a verb, the negative prefix "ne" has to be separated
 
I should be pronuouncing it with a soft t at the end
 
ya znayu "znayu"!
 
@ZhenLin What do you think of this song?
 
12:35 PM
this is the only rule in Russian which has no expception
@ZhenLin :)
 
My indonesian is not too good so I only understand a little
 
I don't listen to local music...
 
@ZhenLin What do you listen to?
 
@BenjaminLim: Please don't refer to Malay as Indonesian.
 
Sorry. I understand a little indonesian so I know some of what they are saying
 
12:36 PM
@tb Hi
 
Zhen Lin, the proof in your notes is not acceptable, it lifts to $\mathbb{R}$ and that's too complicated...
(at least I was told so)
 
@tb âllo
coucou
salut
 
@tb I think I saw the fragments of that conversation, yes.
 
Hi all.
 
@ZhenLin Hey how are the first three chaps of osbourne's book on homological tools?
@tb On parlait on russe
 
12:38 PM
@tb Also, I started reading Ch. 10 of Weibel! It reminds me of our conversation some months ago.
@Benjamin: I've never heard of it.
 
@ZhenLin Do you like to listen to malay hard rock songs?
 
@Benjamin: That would be difficult, as I don't understand much Malay, and I don't like hard rock either.
 
Oh ok. What do you listen to?
 
@ZhenLin Oh, nice. That's a good chapter. Maybe it's a shameless plug, but I once wrote some notes on that quite a while ago.
 
@tb Oh, thanks! More procrastination from my essay, hehe.
 
12:40 PM
@tb Do you know about osbourne's book on homological algebra?
 
I was thinking about how incongruous it would be, given that I have written about sheaves and descent in a fairly modern category-theoretic way, to write about cohomology using old-fashioned derived functors.
 
@ZhenLin Is it hard to learn about ext and tor?
my supervisor recommended that I look at the first three chaps of that book to learn quickly about ext and tor
 
@Benjamin: Not really. The definitions are easy. But I still don't really understand them.
 
oh ok.
He was like "tensoring this exact sequence is not necessarily exact. It will have a kernel, which we call tor of something"
 
@BenjaminLim Heard of it, but I never really looked at it closely. It looked decent though.
 
12:44 PM
@tb thanks. When did you start homological algebra?
@Skullpatrol I knew there were some differences. @Skullpatrol Can you speak any of them?
 
@BenjaminLim I learned about it at it during my undergrad years, but I started thinking about it seriously only sometime during my thesis and using it was only in 06 or around that time.
 
@BenjaminLim I have enough problems with communication thanks.
 
@tb Thanks for the advice.
@Skullpatrol how many languages do you speak?
 
What kind of advice did I give?
 
@BenjaminLim 0.999...
 
12:46 PM
: ))
 
Sorry I meant thanks for the background information :D
@KannappanSampath vanakam
 
@BenjaminLim Vanakkam.
 
@ZhenLin That might look funny. On the other hand, you don't have to push everything to the limits of abstraction. :)
 
Quite. I'm already at double the page limit and I still have a third to go...
 
:)
By the way, this was one gorgeous thread on MO.
 
12:48 PM
Yes, that was what inspired me to go learn about derived categories!
 
I see. Another thing that definitely is worth looking at is Keller's handbook of algebra article.
 
@KannappanSampath I will be away from AC for another 2 weeks :(
 
@BenjaminLim: It is not quite true that Tor is always the kernel. But it is close. The preface of Cartan and Eilenberg give a very nice sketch of why we might be interested in such things.
 
@tb ignore
 
@BenjaminLim I remember you telling me about exams. So, it's good to take a break...
 
12:51 PM
I have to quit this CA addiction
 
@BenjaminLim Then you're starting with set theory?
 
@ZhenLin I am afraid I am not good enough to tackle this homological stuff
@AsafKaragila No I have an analysis mid sem and field/galois theory mid sem
 
But after those, you'll start with set theory?
 
@AsafKaragila We learn some basic set theory in analysis class.
But honestly I am not too interested in set theory
 
12:52 PM
@tb: I read an article earlier today which had some amusing comments, like " This motivation is of course what guided the creators of derived categories (principally Verdier, or as he is traditionally known in this context, Grothendieck’s student Verdier) but, equally of course, is not written down."
 
@KannappanSampath Chap 2 of AM I suggest you learn from somewhere else.
 
Then what is this AC you talk about?
 
@BenjaminLim: Homological algebra is probably a little difficult to learn without motivation. But it isn't very hard.
 
Commutative Algebra in arXiv is AC.
 
@MattN well, that's what you get when you refuse to listen and think...
 
12:53 PM
I didn't know we are following arXiv tags.
 
AC, CT, LO...
 
@ZhenLin Where can I get this motivation?
 
But, I remember you were once a part of the conversation that started this nomenclature at the chatroom.
 
@Benjamin: Since you apparently go to topology seminars, I'm sure you'll see it soon enough, as soon as you realise what it is you're seeing.
 
12:56 PM
Well I've only been to at most 2. But I always hear of random people talking about taking injective resolutions of something....
 
@JonasTeuwen Hmm Why?
 
@Benjamin: As I said, I liked the preface of Cartan and Eilenberg. You should read at least that much.
 
@KannappanSampath I don't know.
 
you mean the homological algebra book?
 
Yes, the "Homological Algebra" book.
 
12:58 PM
@ZhenLin what $\textit{exactly}$ is homological algebra?
 
Paul misspelt equations. So, what? Let somebody else point that out or edit it...
 
@Benjamin: Read the preface and find out!
 
can't download the book
 
It's basically a study of exactness and its failures.
Aren't you at a university with a decently-stocked library?
 
yeah but I believe that book is out at the moment
just checked......
 
12:59 PM
Speaking of homologies... I should return to the Texmaker.
 
crap
and the FBI has taken down megaupload,filestube,filesonic,etc
 
I no more follow what is happening here!
 
@KannappanSampath I never did.
 
@KannappanSampath Homological algebra
@KannappanSampath You need some of that to do AC
 
1:01 PM
Well, I have an archive link for the book. I think I can post it here.
 
A legal copy! Wonderful!
 
Once in a while, I get lucky or Google behaves well with me!
Apparently, the book is available because of IIIT-Hyderabad, from where one of the chat regulars-Rajesh- comes from!
 
@WillHunting Hi
 
user19161
@Skullpatrol Hello.
 
user19161
@BenjaminLim What is AC?
 
1:07 PM
Please scroll to see a few messages before this one!
 
user19161
still checking
 
17 mins ago, by Kannappan Sampath
Commutative Algebra in arXiv is AC.
@Will^
Bye all of you.
 
user19161
@KannappanSampath Oh you mean that is the abbreviation! I thought it stood for something else!
 
user19161
@KannappanSampath Bye!
 
@WillHunting commutative algebra
 
1:17 PM
@tb picks up the teddy bear from the floor, puts him in the big wooden trunk in the corner and closes the lid
 
user19161
@MattN That way the bear can't breathe!
 
!!? 8-). What the...
 
So that's where he went...
 
1:50 PM
@Skullpatrol I didn't really understand what your confusion was until the end, so I don't know if my comments would be very useful.
@Srivatsan: you're here! and I have to take the dog to the park :-( will you be here for a bit?
I'll see when I get back.
 
@robjohn Your comments were instrumental in clearing up my confusion ;-)
 
2:06 PM
hey @robjohn can you check if the $F_{2n}$ example in this question is correct? I think I have an answer but it doesn't jive with the example at all..
 
2:22 PM
nevermind. and Sasha's had an answer there for 15 minutes without the system notifying me, blah.
 
2:53 PM
Hi folks
@anon Whatz up
no sign of life here !
 
Hi! @Rajesh
I am soon heading to a region of no wifi in my institute.
Bye!
 
Hey , Happy Ugadi @Kannappan
bye
 
@anon Just back from the park. I will look. :-)
 
Hey @rob
 
 
1 hour later…
4:19 PM
@anon I see that there is some difference, but I see nothing wrong with yours. I will have to look at the others closer to see where the difference lies.
@RajeshD what's up?
 
In case you didn't know.......we are celebrating new year today in AP
@rob
telugu new year
 
@RajeshD AP?
 
Wish you for the same
Andhra Pradesh.....a state in India (telugu speaking)
 
@RajeshD Hmm... that name is not mentioned in our India Rails game. Nice to know.
@RajeshD Although Hyderabad is one of the cities in the game :-)
 
Yeah....tough luck for telugu people
 
4:26 PM
@RajeshD why is that?
 
I meant for telugu players expecting some native things in the game you mentioned....I don't know much about the game
 
are there 216 elements of order 9 in Z3 x Z9 x Z9?
 
The Lunar Almanac section in Here......You might like this
 
What if I type @Davidw? @DavidWallace
 
interesting....
 
4:34 PM
Hi @Davi
 
Interesting as hell ...
 
@RajeshD Sounds like I should get a Ugadi Pachhadi smoothie today :-)
 
Here you go
BTW your telugu Vocabulary is impressive
 
@RajeshD I credit Wikipedia ;-)
 
and to mention its definitely not the smoothest thing in the world
 
4:41 PM
@RajeshD It is if you run it through a blender :-D
 
I mean taste
 
Ah, so it does sound that way.
 
full of raw mango pieces and neem buds
bitter, sweet and sour simultaneously
 
Neem Buds/Flowers for its bitterness, signifying Sadness
Jaggery and ripe banana pieces for sweetness, signifying Happiness
Green Chilli/Pepper for its hot taste, signifying Anger
Salt for saltiness, signifying Fear
Tamarind Juice for its sourness, signifying Disgust
Unripened Mango for its tang, signifying Surprise
from Wikipedia
 
even I didn't know so much
 
4:44 PM
sounds tasty
 
@DavidWheeler Hey did you get my email?
 
Of course we prepare other sweets that day.....we only eat the Pachchadi as a formality....as the saying goes one must never miss a pinch of it on a Ugadi day
 
you e-mailed me? at what address>
@Gigili i get a lot of junk-mail, so if i don't know wheen it was sent, and by whom, i may never find it....
 
5:03 PM
opens the lid of the trunk
 
@Matt : How do you get this Italicized one liners....are they some ready made templates or you manually typed it ?
 
5:40 PM
@DavidWheeler Umm, I can do nothing about it.
 
@Gigili i don't understand....
 
Never mind
 
@Gigili ok?
 
6:02 PM
@DavidWheeler Now I don't understand, anything I can help you with? Checking you junk-mails or something?
 
6:52 PM
Anybody here familiar with Quine's NF set theory?
 
hhh
7:43 PM
$$r\cos\left(\frac{2\pi}{3}\left(\frac{3\theta}{2\pi}-\left\lfloor\frac{3\theta}{2\pi}\right\rfloor\right) -\frac{\pi}{3}\right) = 1$$

...how can I plot this? (I find it hard to vizualize this...in my head.)
0
Q: Explain Triangle perimeter in polar coordinates and floor function

hhhThe question is to give a formula in $x$ and $y$ that gives all three sides of an equilateral triangle. The formula should not be true for points that are not part of the perimeter of the triangle. David Wallace instructed me here to use polar coordinates and floor function describe the perimet...

 
7:55 PM
@JonasTeuwen How are you liking the ipad?
 
hhh
Why cannot you talk about iPads in Apple chat?
...I have also iPad but only using to fast reading emails (when on the go), any idea whether it could be used for something else like reading math journals or something like that? (otherwise cannot see it much math related but perhaps I am too conservative)
 
@hhh I don't have one :-(but I'm thinking about getting one)
 
hhh
@Skullpatrol Well so what, I neither if my friend had not bougth it to me. Most of the time paper and pen works better. It was totally useless to me if I had no procmail -etc servers which I have customed to fit my needs on the iPad... but iPad is secondary, there are serious probs with it such as data liberatation etc...
 

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