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12:00 AM
@robjohn If you click them you can see what was flagged and some window pops up where you can agree disagree or say dunno.
 
@robjohn Something someone said in chat was flagged offensive, and you have 10k so you can see the flag and vote on it. Mods handle them pretty fast though, that's why the circle goes away
 
Ah, I see (and I see that you are a mod :-)
@MichaelMrozek Is that a chess piece with a hat on it as your avatar?
 
@robjohn It is
 
I could barely see it as such under the hat.
but I like it :-)
I was thinking of changing my avatar to a candy cane life saver (striped torus)
 
@MichaelMrozek Are you responsible for the new chat message notifications, too? They're nice!
(just thinking that there's a hat, too)
 
12:03 AM
@tb No, I'm not a developer. That was balpha
 
@MichaelMrozek: yes, I was commenting the other day that the snowmen were a nice touch
 
Ah, okay. He drops in from time to time, but he doesn't talk much. Thanks for letting me know.
 
I do like them; I'll be a little sad when they go away
 
I should change my avatar to a green background to make it more Grinch-like.
 
I like how this chat is a lot more active than it used to be. When did that happen?
 
12:06 AM
About two or three months ago, I'd say.
 
It's been this way since before I started on chat.
 
Nice. I think the chat is the best way to really develop a community around the site.
 
It has picked up even more with the MathJax now. (I am shameless :-)
 
You get to know the users a lot better.
 
That's right. It's also much more relaxed than going off-topic in the comments. Also, I like it that some users pop in and ask some easy questions. For some things it's much better to do this interactively than in the more rigid Q&A format.
And since robjohn adapted this script, it's really comfortable talking math!
 
12:09 AM
@tb Thanks for looking at my posts. I was still 1 vote away :-)
 
@robjohn I did. But I make it a point to read what I vote on, so I didn't have time...
 
@tb I know. I do too, but I found some that I could read pretty quickly.
and you only needed 2
 
Yeah, and my recent answers were mostly rather short. Didn't have much to say, I guess.
 
I should be more supportive of my fellow chatters and scan their posts more. More like Srivatsan, who runs out of votes almost every day.
 
Well, he needs 3 hours for that...
Hi Henning!
 
12:12 AM
@HenningMakholm: back for the weekend?
 
@robjohn Yes. Not for long right now; I'll need to go home and to bed.
 
@Mana: you're on gaming.SE. My son is doing a degree in game design in Chicago. I should point him to gaming.SE.
@HenningMakholm Well, we will see you later though?
 
@robjohn Ah, actually, you should point him to gamedev.SE
 
@HenningMakholm May I ask you to vote for migrating this one to stats.SE?
 
@Mana he likes playing, too, but yes, that would also be good for him.
 
12:15 AM
Oh awesome.
 
@robjohn Sure. Probably not as much as I use to; I actually have things to do this weekend apart from hanging out here.
 
@HenningMakholm Me, too, but I'm addicted here.
 
@tb Done. Still two votes left.
 
We're all in the same boat...
Thanks!
 
Anyway, I mostly popped in here in order to brag about my shiny new Great Answer badge.
 
12:17 AM
Oh, congratulations! It took much longer than I thought, but last time I checked you had 99 votes, so it doesn't come as that big a surprise...
Well-earned, I'd say
 
@HenningMakholm Oh, congrats!
 
I'm pretty sure I will never have one of those -_-
 
We have one great answer for a single letter!
 
Wow, you really do. That's a little sad :)
 
12:19 AM
@HenningMakholm: which problem was it for? This seems to be the most recent with more than 10 votes.
 
10 votes is "Nice", 25 is "Good", 100 is "Great"
 
@tb Oh, nice
Oh, Great Answer. I missed the adjective there.
 
Not sure how deserved it is. The first 50 votes or so came in before the long addition and discussion, where the answer just said "this is the liar paradox, nyah nyah, it's meaningless".
 
I haven't even gotten a Good Answer yet. The most votes any of my answers has gotten is 18
It's one of those that got votes for a pretty picture :-p
 
12:25 AM
Oh, today an answer I posted over half a year ago was accepted. I couldn't believe it. But it's one of my personal favorites. I had a lot of fun drawing with Geogebra...
 
@robjohn That's because you write complex answers with formulas and scary stuff. Stick to the big lines.
 
@tb I like problems like that. Soddy's theorem is a favorite of mine.
 
@tb Nice diagrams.
 
@HenningMakholm speak softly and carry a big line?
@tb Nice diagrams indeed.
 
Thanks!
 
12:29 AM
@tb Coincidentally, the OP of that question started satisfying the condition for having a accept rate displayed today ...
 
@HenningMakholm Oh, now I understand...
@robjohn Yes, Soddy's theorem is wonderful: The Kiss Precise
I learned about that only very recently, I don't remember how I stumbled over it.
 
@tb I came up with what appears to be a new result related to Soddy's theorem. I talked to several people who are active in that area, and they did not know it before.
 
@robjohn Oh, is that already written up?
 
@tb I have a PDF on my site.
I proved Soddy's theorem (which I had been wanting to do for a long time) and then this new result popped out.
 
@robjohn Connection timed out.
 
12:37 AM
@HenningMakholm hmmm... let me check the server.
 
@robjohn The link worked for me
 
@HenningMakholm try again. You may have been pushed out by tb.
 
It loads for me now. Must have been a temporary network hiccup.
 
@HenningMakholm It's on my computer in the next room on a pretty slow DSL uplink, so you were in contention with tb
 
Yes, and I loaded the inversion file three times, accidentally. Sorry about that
 
12:39 AM
Theorem 1.2 is the result I was talking about.
It's about the centers of the spheres.
 
I'm looking forward to reading that in detail on a train ride soon, so I'll not look too closely now.
 
@robjohn Hmm. Sounds like your DSL modem has an upstream packet buffer that is larger than what's good for it.
 
@HenningMakholm The uplink is .3Mbps
the downlink is between .8 and 1.2 Mbps
I am very far from the substation, so it is lucky that I get a signal at all.
 
Not much of a signal no. But if the DSL modem buffers up to, say 5 MB of outgoing data and doesn't shrink that buffer when the uplink is slow, that means that it can saturate with several seconds worth of data without your computer knowing.
 
It's an old modem, so it probably doesn't have that big of a buffer.
 
12:45 AM
Intuitively, one would think providing a larger buffer instead of just throwing packets away would improve performance, but it can really bomb the TCP/IP suite to have too much buffer.
@robjohn It's the most likely explanation why I couldn't even connect to the server from outside. Under better conditions, even with harshly limited bandwidth, the TCP protocol would have shared equally between me and the other user instead.
 
I will have to look at the modem specs.
 
It would surprise me if it said anything about this in end-user specifications.
It's not as if it is a parameter that manufacturers compete on anyway.
 
@HenningMakholm It doesn't say, and the website for the modem is no longer there.
 
(Also, I converted bits to bytes the wrong way. You don't need 5 MB of buffer to get into trouble at 300 kbps -- just a few hundred KB could wreak havoc).
 
yeah. usually the conversion is 10:1 since they usually are counting stop/start bits in the bps, but only bytes for Bps.
So to get 1MBps, you need 10Mbps.
results vary with compression
 
12:56 AM
10:1 is good enough for back-of-the envelope estimates, but I don't think start and stop bits have actually been involved in the quoted speeds since the days of dialup links and serial cables.
 
Well, when I check the bps vs the Bps that come through 10:1 works.
I am using the bps measured by software on my computer.
not as advertised on TV
 
It may have the 10:1 assumption hardcoded. All the software can actually measure is bytes delivered.
And usually software bandwidth probers ignore the overhead of TCP/IP protocol headers, ethernet headers, ATM framing, etc.etc.
So assuming 10:1 may not be too far off in pratice -- it just isn't caused by start and stop bits anymore.
 
1:34 AM
ATM framing seems to introduce a preposterous amount of overhead as well, though. 5 bytes of header for 48 bytes of data...
 
1:58 AM
If I cannot find any matches for the question I'm about to ask, is it okay to ask it? I'm afraid it might be a duplicate again!
 
@Gigili Don't worry, the worst that can happen is that it is closed if you post it on the main site. Do you want to show it here first, maybe?
 
Hello tb, I want to prove that the following equation about the number of leaves in a binary tree holds:
$n_0 = (k-1)n_k + (k-2) n_k-1 + \dots + 3n_4 + 2n_3+n_2+1 $
 
This looks very similar to this question, no?
 
Yes I found it, but I cannot see how it answers my question really. Are the equation in that question and mine the same?
 
Can you define your $n_k, n_{k-1}, \ldots, n_4, n_3$ and so on?
What do they mean in words?
@Gigili are you still there?
 
2:13 AM
@tb Sorry, I got disconnected.
 
okay, no problem
 
$n_k$ means nodes of degree k
 
That's what I suspected. Number of nodes, right? So may it simply be a shift where one starts counting? I mean your formula reads $$n_0 = \sum_{j=3}^{k} (j-1)n_j + n_2+1,$$ right?
(I'm not very familiar with graph theory, but it seems extremely close to what's written there)
I mean $|V_i| = n_i$ by the definition in this question
 
Yes, it is indeed close. Seems they're different notations of the same thing, with n_2=1
Um, but there are more than one differences now that I look more carefully
 
Well, there's $(j-1)$ instead of $(j-2)$ and I'm not quite sure what $n_0$ is supposed to be.
 
2:22 AM
Maybe because it's about all types of trees as opposed to binary trees in my question.
In mine? It's number of leaves as well
 
@Srivatsan are you there? Can you help Gigili?
 
@tb Yes, give me five minutes. Editing something.
@Gigili, I will be back in a few minutes.
 
Thanks Srivatsan
 
@Srivatsan Thank you.
Thank you @tb, so kind of you.
 
2:27 AM
@Srivatsan May I guess the next question?
 
How do we know this question is homework? The OP did not add that tag.
Ok, @Gigili, what's the question? Should I read through the transcript or can you explain what happened quickly?
 
@Srivatsan I reverted the edit and left a comment
@Srivatsan (Just go up to Zhen's last post, it's not much)
 
@tb Thanks.
Oh, that one (=Gigili's question) is a bit cute. =) I am not fully sure, but I think the point is this: the degree of any node equals the number of children plus 1... Except that this does not work for the root.
That should cause an off-by-1.
 
@Gigili Having another disconnect?
 
@Gigili, ping me when you see this.
 
2:39 AM
@Srivatsan Yes, that's about what I suspected.
 
Curious: there's an [exponentiation] tag as well as a [powers] tag. May be we can make the latter a synonym?
 
@Srivatsan well, different languages have different ways of expressing different flavors of "can"
 
@tb Yes. It's just that I find it a bit on the formal side, as well as amusing at the same time.
 
@Srivatsan Oops, sorry. it was less than a few minutes!
Isn't it the number of children? why plus one?
 
I understand not being able to spell "Diophantine". But when the tag is sitting right there?
 
2:52 AM
Aha, (the number of children)+1
Got it.
 
@Potato seen this answer?
 
@Dylan In this question, shouldn't the statement say every power $\alpha^i$ where $s \nmid i$?
 
@Srivatsan If $s \mid i$ then it's the trivial permutation, right? That seems okay. I still count that as a cycle.
Hm, maybe it isn't.
According to Wikipedia.
 
@DylanMoreland Is that a conventional thing -- to treat identity permutation as a cycle? [I haven't seen this before.]
 
@Srivatsan I didn't get it, could you explain?
 
2:59 AM
Not sure. By this definition it isn't. For some reason I thought it was.
 
Ok fine. Thanks, Dylan.
@Gigili You are asking about the permutation question?
Gigili: I will come back to your binary tree question in a little while. I have to leave this place now.
 
@Srivatsan Okay, thank you. Please ping me so I that I can check it later.
 
"Try hard I think you are on the right track,. With more effort you can get there. Gerry you are my friend. – Vassili 2 days ago"
I will stop now but it's very rare that something on the main site makes me laugh.
 
I don't know. Somehow I fell like I've killed this thread on meta.MO (it's very rare that I post there)
 
3:22 AM
I'll have to start taking bets on when "Diofantine equations of fifth degree" will show up, up until he finds his elementary FLT proof...
 
3:35 AM
@Gigili I'm back, Gigili.
 
I almost forgot two more votes for migration to stats.SE needed.
 
If X is limit point compact and f: X -> Y is continuous, does it follow that Y is limit point compact? I have a "proof" the answer is yes, but apparently a counterexample exists. Does anyone know what it is?
 
no assumptions on $f$ besides continuity?
 
f is continuous.
 
Take the inclusion of a point in a non-compact space
 
3:47 AM
Is geogebra overkill for drawing a parabola and a tangent line? [This is a serious question.]
 
Sorry, I have misstated the question. The function f is continuous, and the question asks if f(X) is limit point compact.
@Srivatsan No! Worship at the altar of elegant diagrams.
 
@Potato Ok, cool. Thanks.
 
QED
I have trouble seeing who's here and who's left
I suppose you can just hover the mouse of peoples avatars to see
 
@t.b. Then what fails with the proof, e.g. here: hans.math.upenn.edu/~shonkwil/courses/500/500_5.pdf
 
3:54 AM
What's $\mathbb{R}_\ell$?
 
The question is under 28.3 - the second question listed.
That is the lower limit topology on the reals.
Because that proof is basically the proof I came up with, and I fail to see what is wrong with it.
 
Vassili - troll of the month.
 
@t.b. Although I find it telling that even the postdoc who wrote that got it wrong.
 
@Potato Silly question: why is $f(y) \neq f(b)$?
 
The definition of limit point.
A point is a limit point of a set if every neighborhood of the point intersects the set in a point other than itself.
 
4:02 AM
But you want to prove that $f(b)$ is a limit point.
You know that $y \neq b$ but the claim is that $f(y) \neq f(b)$ and I don't see how that should follow.
 
Ah! That must be it.
 
No, wait that isn't it. We started with an infinite set $A \subset f(X)$.
 
Right. But I think the problem is that he's assuming that $f$ is injective.
 
You can arrange that $B$ goes bijectively to $A$.
 
Oh wait, yeah, that's what I did.
 
4:06 AM
(just choose one pre-image of each point $a \in A$.)
 
Ok so let's walk through how I did it.
Let V be an infinite subset of $f(X)$.
Pick one pre-image from each point of $V$ to get a set $U$.
$U$ is infinite so it contains a limit point by hypothesis.
Let $p$ be such a point.
 
So far so good.
 
Consider $f(p)$. If this were not a limit point, there would be some neighborhood in $f(X)$ of $f(p)$ that is empty except for $f(p)$. Call this neighborhood $N$.
Look at $f^{-1}(N)$. This is a neighborhood of $p$.
So it contains a point $j\in U$, because $p$ is a limit point. Then $f(j)\in N$, a contradiction.
The counter example is this: Consider the set $\{0,1\}$ under the indiscrete topology. Then the projection from $\{0,1\}\times \mathbb{R}$ to $\mathbb{R}$ is continuous. The domain is limit point compact, but the image is obviously not.
 
Sorry I don't see it at the moment.
 
What precisely don't you see? I can explain.
 
4:16 AM
The problem is that I'm simply too tired for that.
 
QED
@RobertHarvey, what does your picture say? King something?
 
Whew, long transcript...
 
It's the chinese symbol for beauty.
Decorated like a Christmas tree.
 
QED
thanks
 
@RobertHarvey "mei"?
What's with this tag?
 
4:18 AM
i wonder if this CW question is acceptable...
 
@JM I think you should have one for every branch of mathematics. Brave new Calculus. Brave new Trigonometry. etc.
New Math.
 
What could be new fields that mathematics could be used for? [motivation is based on DARPA 23 problems]
 
@RobertHarvey Heh, tempting. But with the way those mathematicians are going, it looks like everything's "brave new xxxx"...
@ZeeshanMahmud Where is this list?
 
@JM It's a fancy name for all those toys of the homotopy theorists. I think Manin propagated it.
Let me look for the MO thread
 
Well this list shows mathematics that has ALREADY been used... but i was hoping for NEW frontiers :)
 
4:22 AM
 
@tb Ah! I feared it was some subtle joke. Thanks!
 
@JM OP ain't known for subtlety
 
Hmm, too bad Jonas ain't here. He said something about needing special functions help...
 
It's too early for him. And given that he managed to uncork his port...
 
...he's gonna be sedated for quite a bit. :D
 
QED
4:30 AM
I should be sedated
(couldn't sleep)
 
@ZeeshanMahmud So, just for the stupid like me to understand: after top people compiled a list of gigantic challenges that are as widely open as can be you want to compile a CW list containing even greater challenges by asking some random people that happen to be interested in all kinds of rather basic math?
 
I'm back, too @Srivatsan. Should I ask a question?
 
@t.b. I think the problem is that the limit point of an infinite set may not actually be in that set.
 
@Gigili It's not like you should. =) Do you have a question?
 
@tb Not challenges...rather application :)
 
4:32 AM
@Srivatsan Very thoughtful answer here.
 
@tb Loosely/informally: What should there be "Mathematics of..."
 
@DylanMoreland That's very kind, thanks.
 
@Srivatsan Um, right. but I have, the one I asked you.
The problem is, I don't know if it's a duplicate of this question.
 
@DylanMoreland I guess a lot of things can be done with conics without resorting to calculus. Most of it is either forgotten or ignored or generalised to the point of no return =)
 
@Srivatsan Even cubics. But as you can see, not availing of calculus makes for solutions that are a bit longer.
 
4:37 AM
@Gigili It kind of is. Do you still not know how to do your question?
 
@ZeeshanMahmud I think this is way to unfocused to be suitable. Please also consult the various MO thread here before asking your question.
 
(Of course I upvoted your answer Sri.)
 
@JM Yes, longer is a valid point.
 
@Srivatsan Not really.
 
@ZeeshanMahmud And remember what the FAQ says: You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face. Chatty, open-ended questions diminish the usefulness of our site and push other questions off the front page.
 
4:39 AM
@JM Thanks, JM. I am not completely sure of how things work for cubics (although I can imagine doing the same thing, except that the discriminant bit gets replaced by a longer expression).
 
@Srivatsan I'd even say that's why the calculus had to be invented. The purely algebraic approach works, but can be unwieldy to do.
 
@tb I see...
 
But remember that's just my opinion.
 
Could open a meta thread.
 
@JM It's quite sad, you know. I learned about these conics while preparing for my entrance exams. There the emphasis was on getting to the answer as quickly as possible, so most of the times, we just ended up remembering a hideously long list of formulas (I don't even remember what these are anymore). I don't quite know the "theory" behind these things. :-(
 
4:43 AM
@tb It's cool. Some of the links that you provided is interesting. :)
 
I've spent enough time on it, maybe I'll ask a question or I'll never mind the problem completely. Thank you.
 
@Gigili Sorry, Gigili. This other question has intervened. =)
 
@DylanMoreland Was it pertaining to us? Curious.
 
@Gigili [To be frank, I am still thinking about the other answer...] I don't mind you posting it as a question. Or, I can compose an answer offline when I am in the right mood, and ping you later. Either works for me.
@JM Would you happen to know any good treatment of this stuff? I am looking for the "pull up the sleeve and do the algebra" kind.
 
@Srivatsan Well, to add to that. Gigili, you can simply say: I'm interested in binary trees and I'm unable to translate the answers given in the other thread into my terms and conventions. Can you lend me a hand? I suspect something along the lines ... And I'm pretty sure people won't vote to close that.
2
 
4:49 AM
Yes, this doesn't count as a duplicate, I feel.
 
QED
What's the probability of winning peg solitaire if you play randomly?
 
@Srivatsan Not offhand, sorry. I'll check my bibliographies later and get back to you on that.
 
@JM Sure, thanks.
I will look at this Hilbert Cohn-Vossen book later.
 
@Srivatsan Ah, I managed to remember one of them. If you're well-versed in algebraic geometry already, that's a plus, but it's not a necessary prerequisite.
 
@JM Thanks, I will have a look. Unfortunately, I don't know no algebraic geometry...
 
4:56 AM
You'll still be okay. :) I read it even before I learned what a "variety" means...
 
5:13 AM
@ZeeshanMahmud Yes, it was. Just an idea if you want to get opinions from more people.
 
@DylanMoreland Got it..
 
5:26 AM
Time to retire in my chambers.
 
I wish I had chambers.
 
You have. Deep inside your heart. ;)
 
5:43 AM
@JM Aw, right. =)
Nice work with the eigen-picture answer, JM =)
 
@Srivatsan Thanks. It's pretty much one of my favorite SVD applications.
The thing's a veritable linear algebra Swiss knife.
 
Is the main site sluggish for the others?
The TeX does not render for me...
 
Well, it's not slower than what I'm accustomed to.
 
I am writing the question on meta thread but so far it looks more like a vague idea for a blog than a question..shall i still post it
i will just post it..worst will be downvotes :)
 
6:24 AM
@Srivatsan Am I right about this cycle index thing?
In this question. Greg seems to think one should be multiplying the subscripts and that doesn't make sense to me.
But I also feel that maybe the argument isn't rigorous enough at that level, even if I'm right.
 
@DylanMoreland Oh, I think you're right.
One quick check that Greg must be wrong is this: suppose $k=s$, then the map $a_i \mapsto a_{is} = a_{0}$ is NOT a permutation. =)
For that matter, we can set $k$ to be zero as well.
Does this make sense, Dylan?
 
That's a good example. Do you think more needs to be said for a complete solution?
 
@DylanMoreland Complete solution of what? The OP's question? Or the claim you made in the comments?
I find that sentence quite funny.
 
6:39 AM
@JM I added one with pictures =)
0
A: What do eigenvalues have to do with pictures ?

yodaJ.M. has given a very good answer explaining singular values and how they're used in low rank approximations of images. However, a few pictures always go a long way in appreciating and understanding these concepts. Here is an example from one of my presentations from I don't know when, but is exa...

 
"very similar but this is more intuitive" - wait, what? Curious...
 
Top of the morrow to you, and not what.
 
@yoda Thanks! First upvote's mine.
 
@JM thank you :)
 
@AsafKaragila What morrow's top to you... not.
 
6:42 AM
Sounds like something Wayne Campbell would say.
 
@yoda Unfortunately, I've forgotten what's done with color images. They don't just treat red, green, and blue components as separate matrices, no?
 
So, what did I miss? Any good set theory questions?
 
@yoda Wow. Nice visualisation. Esp. interesting is that picture about the next 100 eigenvalues (below the top 50 ones).
@AsafKaragila We are discussing the dataset theory ones right now. =)
 
Close, but not good enough.
 
@JM Typically, they're all treated as three separate matrices and operations act on each of them. I chose to convert to grayscale here, since it's simpler
 
6:45 AM
hi Asaf
 
What's up Srivatsan?
 
@yoda Ah, that squares with my intuition. Thanks!
 
@Srivatsan The OP's question.
I think the important bit, if you want something more than just "oh this is obvious" is that Z/pZ is cyclic.
And you connect that to cycles with this subscript formula.
 
Aw, I now see what Greg was talking about. Sort-of...
Fix the map $a_i \mapsto a_{i+k}$. Under this map, we get the cycle, $a_0 \mapsto a_k \mapsto a_{2k} \mapsto a_{3k} \mapsto \cdots$. So we need to show that each $a_j$ appears in this list somewhere.
 

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