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1:00 PM
Not that I read those books, but even when I read a book that is crap, there is often something of value in it.
 
@Gortaur: that's the airport with the casino inside, right?
 
@Gortaur important tip. I will make sure to go through that airport next time I pass that way and use Swiss Air.
 
...and a playroom, and a mini-mall, and a... what don't those people have? :)
 
Good morning.
 
@Jonas: morning!
 
1:02 PM
Good morning to you!
 
The bigger airports I have been in are like small cities. Almost anything you might want is in them.
Hey Jonas!
 
Hey.
 
Is that Hij in Flemish?
 
Okay :s
 
1:04 PM
Wait, you mean "Hey" is "Hij" in Flemish? "Hij" means "he".
 
@JonasTeuwen hi
@JM I meant flight attendants
 
I wonder what statistic they use to put me in the "top 0.98% this month"
Better lying through statistics :-)
 
@Gortaur: Oh sure, the stewardesses are pretty also. :)
 
I just found that out. No the way I imagine that ij is pronounced Hi could be written hij... Silly joke, never mind.
@robjohn: I guess this one?
 
Then again, have you ever seen a homely stewardess?
 
1:06 PM
Does someone here uses a VCS for the .tex documents? I'm trying to figure out how I can set it up with emacs.
@tb Oh right, it is the same pronounciation.
 
@JM klm, sas
 
@Gortaur: So you're saying their human resources people need to have their eyes examined? ;)
 
hell yeah, they should
 
@tb Well, at least I am in company I respect there. :-) I am glad I am on the first page of over 300. :-)
 
@Gortaur: I'll take your word for it. ;) (I haven't flown KLM so I can't concur with you.)
 
1:08 PM
I used to have a KLM carry on, so I think my mom had flown on KLM.
 
@JM I hope I will fly to Orlando with Air France - then I will tell you
 
@Jonas: I don't, but some guys I know swear on subversion.
 
I've never been on KLM, though.
 
@robjohn: I'm surrounded by cool dudes on the overall page :)
 
I used subversion for a while.
 
1:09 PM
Oh, which VCS is not that important. I would use bitbucket or something like that.
 
@robjohn I currently use it
 
But I would like to have a local folder with my .tex-files and then have it synchronised with the VCS.
 
@tb well, duh. you have 25K+
 
@JonasTeuwen: we tried to figure out what was the reason for you to skip the lunch and decided that there are no such reasons, so shame on you
 
@Gortaur Oh, I was sleeping. Sorry.
(And I didn't get your message on FB!)
 
1:11 PM
no way! check it out! )
btw, guys - has anyone of you listened to Saint-Preux?
 
@tb Arturo at 80K! wow... and I just noticed that the order is horizontal first. I am further up on the monthly list than I first thought. :-)
 
Seriously...
 
@tb It is a good thing that those people you speak of are all good people, so far as I can tell. :)
I wonder if I should start taking bets on when Arturo will reach 100k...
 
@robjohn: I just noticed that on every single tab of the users page, a scary Cheshire Cat is right next to me...
 
@tb :)
 
1:14 PM
@robjohn you're one page better than me )
 
@Gortaur I've had some good days recently. Yesterday was awesome.
Any day I cap is a good day :-)
can you say shallow?
 
@JonasTeuwen so you added me to your friend list but never received any messages?
@robjohn shallow
 
@Gortaur Yes!
 
@Gortaur thanks, dude -_-
 
He's just following orders... ;)
 
1:17 PM
@robjohn anytime to your service, sir
 
with friends like this...
 
On a more serious note: I agree, a cap day is a good day. As long as you don't get further upvotes after the cap... ;)
 
What is a cross section mapping?
 
@JonasTeuwen I've sent you the test message ^_9
 
"Hey, could you guys postpone the upvotes for tomorrow? Pleeease?"
 
1:18 PM
sorry, ^_^
@JM which tomorrow?
 
@JM I don't mind a few, but yeah, if it means I miss out on a lot, it is a bit disappointing. Yesterday I capped just a bit before midnight (UTC)
 
@Gortaur I didn't get it. Did you get mine?
 
@Jonas: a right inverse
 
Oh, why give it such a complicated name if it is just a right inverse?
 
'I didn't get any message. Do you get this one?'
I've received it and replied you
 
1:19 PM
Yes.
I see.
 
@Jonas: Geometry: think of the map admitting a section as a projection, and of the pre-images of the points as fibres. The graph of the section cuts each fiber in exactly one point.
Draw a picture of the projection of the unit square onto [0,1]
 
Right,.
 
So, the graph crosses each fiber exactly once. So section makes sense to me.
 
Makes sense.
 
In the theory of fiber bundles, you always have local sections, and you can patch them together locally, but it may not be possible globally. That's one way to look at cohomology: obstructions of patching local sections together to a global one.
 
1:25 PM
(I'm reading this in Douglas's book on Banach algebras)
 
In what context does he use it?
Michael's selection theorem?
 
In the context of Toeplitz operators.
There is a homomorphism for which the mapping xi from L^infty to L(H^2) given by xi(phi) = T_phi is a cross section.
 
cross section of what?
 
I have edited the previous line.
 
me too:)
 
1:28 PM
I'm not really sure yet, he claims that there is a short exact sequence for which xi is a cross section.
If S is a subset of L^infty(T), then I(S) is the smallest closed subalgebra of L(H^2) containing {T_phi : phi in S}.
 
So you should have a map p: L(H^2) \to L^\infty and xi p = id_L^\infty
 
The short exact sequence is then: (0) -> (commutator ideal in I(L^infty)) -> I(L^infty) -> L^infty -> (0).
 
I thought at one point Stein wrote Toeplitz as Töplitz. Now I only see Toeplitz. Am I imagining or is the name really Töplitz, and just Anglicized for ASCII to Toeplitz?
 
On that note: I've never seen anybody write "Töplitz" yet... hmm...
 
@JM Yes you did :-)
 
1:33 PM
(then again, I've only encountered him in the context of those particular matrices...)
 
Pretty sure it's Otto Toeplitz
 
@rob: Argh! :D
 
@tb that's all I see in any online reference, which is why I asked. I have always heard it pronounced as if it were ö.
And "oe" is usually the way "ö" is written when the umlaut is not available.
 
@robjohn: right, oe is an alternative spelling for ö. Usually ö is used, unless you don't have the characters, but in names you don't do that. So there are people called Naef and people called Näf, different names, really.
 
@tb makes sense.
I gotta go walk the dog for a while. BBL
 
1:37 PM
You'd spell Näf as Naef if ä isn't available, but not the other way around.
 
@tb I was just wondering if Toeplitz had been spelled that way for so long due to lack of ö that it stuck, or whether it was originally that way. Anyway, I'm off for a bit.
 
@robjohn: here's an original article where Umlauts were available, but Toeplitz is spelled with oe
see you later
 
if the real projective plane is a compact manifold?
 
@Gortaur: how do you define it? what is the problem? whether it is a manifold or whether it is compact?
 
it's defined as a quotient space of R^3 \ {0} with x~y iff x = a y for some real a
the problem is that I understand that P1 is homeomorphic to S1
but I cannot imagine P2 so simply
I know that it is 2-manifold
 
1:48 PM
but that's the projective line
 
which one
or you were impatient? )
 
You mean R^3 \ {0}, no?
 
yes, sorry
so I know that it is 2-manifold and I guess that P2 is not homeomorphic to S2
 
you can't embed it into R^3, so it is hard to imagine. here are some nice pictures
 
@tb even so bad (
embedding f:X->Y is a homeomorphism f:X->f(X) right?
 
1:53 PM
yes.
 
so there is no a subset of R3 which is homeomorphic to P2
 
no. every map P2 -> R3 has to self-intersect or has singularities.
 
ok, thanks
@tb since the quotient topology on Y given X and surjection f:X->Y defined as U\subset Y is open iff f^{-1}(U) is open in X, any quotient map f is open and continuous, right?
a, no. not any open set can be presented as a pre-image
 
2:24 PM
@JM Back
 
Hey Jack, maybe you can help me with some group theory business...
 
@tb thanks for that article. That pretty well answers the question.
 
Sure, I can try at least
 
Would you happen to know of a nice "catalog/dictionary" for the wallpaper groups?
To clarify: I have this friend who's asking me for help with understanding the wallpaper groups.
Just to impress the basics, I was wondering if there's a table containing the name, a tile, and the actual "wallpaper" for each of the 17 groups?
 
@JM: Yes and no. I am planning on making a very nice version of that, but have not. Our textbook has basic pictures, and a flowchart for identification, but in many ways is suboptimal. Let me dig up my current best resources, but they all lack something.
 
2:30 PM
@JM Wikipedia has a listing of the 17. did you want more information than that?
 
@rob: I know the seventeen, but after showing that to my friend, she ended up more confused.
 
@JM Exactly. My current best are no better.
 
I'm thinking a simplified catalog might be a better way of explaining it to her.
 
right
@JM: I only teac the "Frieze groups" or "Border Pattern" groups now.
@JM: they have better names too, "spin jump" "hop" "sidle"
 
Oh, those were Conway's names right? :)
 
2:33 PM
ms.uky.edu/~jack/2011-08-MA111/2011-08-24-BorderPattern.html is a silly page to let you draw border patterns
yup
we pass around transparencies with wallpaper patterns on them, but its hard to get exactly all of the symmetries identified
the border patterns as long transparency slips work really well though
80% of the students get all of the symmetries
 
My friend, she's trying to pick up some mathematics for her art. The friezes I could probably do (nice idea using transparencies... can I steal it?).
 
absolutely
(let me know if you improve responsiveness or cross-browser compatibility for my silly web page :-)
 
Sure. I guess my hunt for a nice catalog still continues, though...
 
i like the footprint catalog for the friezes
conway's footprints
I printed a selection from wikipedia commons for the transparencies, along with the footprints
 
Yeah, I think I'll scounge some acetate tomorrow for those. :)
The particular idea I had for the wallpaper was actually to print a bunch of tiles, so she could assemble them like a puzzle of sorts...
...and then she can compare with the catalog.
 
2:40 PM
oh that is a cool idea. if you assemble the tiles with a steady rotation, you can change wallpaper groups too
(for frieze groups, this switches from "X" to "spin X")
adobe illustrator has all 17 wallpaper groups as "filters" or something, I hear
 
Yeah, like that. My precise problem is making her understand what I'm imagining...
 
@JM the Vulcan mind-meld
 
@rob: too bad we don't have that yet, no? :)
 
for the dihedral group of order 8, I really like the card game "swish". it has transparent cards, and you try to match them up
 
@JM or the pensieve.
 
2:44 PM
@Jack: this one? Looks nice. Slightly out of my budget, so I'll see if I can emulate it...
 
@JM: yup
 
Nice. I have setup Mercurial with Emacs and bitbucket!
 
@Jonas: Congratulations. :)
 
@JonasTeuwen Mercurial is what I am using now.
with Eclipse
 
Now, if I wake up and notice that last night monkey abused my keyboard I can revert to an earlier version.
Oh, Eclipse.
 
2:47 PM
Anyway, at least I know what to do with the friezes now. Thanks Jack!
(For the space groups, I have a bunch of plastic polyhedra lying around, so not a problem for me... ;) )
 
@robjohn Where do you put your repository?
Bitbucket gives free private ones.
 
@JonasTeuwen locally on my computer, remotely on a server at UCLA.
 
@JM: no problem. Yeah, I bring "polydrons" to class too, so they can see the 3d point groups. I really like helping them discover the 180 degree rotation of the tetrahedron.
 
I don't think my university has a Mercurial/Git/whatever repository... Or at least I'm not aware of any.
 
Ah, I have the "tetrahedron in a cube" prepared for precisely that situation. :) I've had trouble explaining that rotation to people until I decided to make that model...
 
2:51 PM
@JonasTeuwen we have a server and just set up a repository as if it were on a local computer there. Mercurial takes care of the rest (as far as I understand it)
 
Hmm, I do have shell access, so maybe I can install Mercurial in a user directory.
 
@JM Some nice Mathematica models might help, too.
@JonasTeuwen I bet you can.
 
@rob: Yeah, that works splendidly for me, but she likes holding things.
 
@Jonas: I use Murky on the Mac as a client, as well as the plugin for Eclipse.
@JM Oh, she's a touchy-feely type, eh?
 
Yep. Exactly why I wanted to do tiles to explain the wallpaper groups to her properly...
 
2:55 PM
@JM: you just need a 3D printer. :-)
 
@robjohn Murky? I fear not the command line. (Asaf 2011)
 
If she could hold what I was imagining, I wouldn't have so much difficulty teaching her... :)
 
@JM not touching that one. :-p
 
;)
 
interior design let math use their laser cutter, but engineering/visualization wouldn't let us use their 3d printer
 
3:00 PM
(P.S. @rob: She's a relative. You... ;) )
 
so we have some nice 2D graphs that blind people can feel
 
@Jack: Aw... why won't they let you guys use the 3D printer?
 
"too expensive and slow"
 
@JM do you have it?
 
my brother in law and i are just going to get a makerbot or variant this winter break
 
3:03 PM
@Gortaur: I don't have one. Maybe when I'm rich...
@Jack: BTW... are there pictures of those 2D graphs you guys made anywhere?
 
@JM: I don't know. I can ask. It was for another course. I used drinking straws and thread for my class last semester. :)
(asked. i doubt we currently have photos, but I think it would be good politics for us to make them and thank interior design)
 
Thanks for asking!
 
@JM, @tb: We should start a secret society "The Annihilators" and make like... t-shirts.
 
@Asaf: Black, of course. Or maybe rainbow colors so that it confuses the hell out of people...
 
@JM You know I wouldn't take it any other way than black.
 
3:17 PM
guys, how to put simple diagrams a-la here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomorphism_theorem
 
I am not allowed to draw diagrams.
 
Like that?
 
@JM yes
 
What browser are you on?
 
@AsafKaragila which tense do you use?
@JM metallic one from Google
i.e. chrome
 
3:20 PM
When you right click on the image in the wiki, there should be something like "copy image location" in the popup.
 
@Gortaur I don't know what you're talking about :-)
 
@AsafKaragila icic :D
 
@AsafKaragila: possibly he was complementing your perfect grammar. "I am not allow*ed* to draw diagrams."
 
@JackSchmidt That's what I wrote... :P
 
@Gortaur: have you right clicked?
 
3:21 PM
@JackSchmidt thank you so much, this guy is cheating _
 
haha, this is a crazy chat program
 
@JM yeah, I try to understand what should it be in Russian
I can copy image's URL
or save link as
 
No need to save, just copy the image's address.
 
@JM done
ah, ok )
@JM: I meant creating new ones )
 
I guess I don't have to finish my lesson... :)
 
3:24 PM
my put was wider then yours ))
should I use tikz - or there is more simple method?
 
Oh, in TeX? Unfortunately I have no TikZ experience.
Maybe you should ask tex.SE ...
 
if it is in tikz I will
 
Sorry I can't help...
 
but I thought I saw some diagrams on MSE
and haven't found them now
 
@JM make that search tex.SE... It's about as common there as we have integrals with 1/(1+x^2) popping up
 
3:26 PM
Oh, right. :)
 
@tb precisely ) but what are the question about this integral?
@AsafKaragila because...
 
back in my homological algebra days I used "xymatrix" in the xypic (or xy) package. I haven't tried using tikz for commutative diagrams, but I use it all the time for pictures
 
thanks, you've got a star for this comment
 
@Jack: I'm using xy, too. It's one of those packages with the most helpful error messages...
 
i like tikz because no matter what the error message is, it is usually that I forgot a semicolon
2
 
3:31 PM
...and one more
 
Not once have I managed to decipher a xy-error "message" (to avoid calling it a book) not even after having figured out what the error was
 
yeah, i am very impressed they (xy and tikz) managed to write a compiler in tex for a new language, but like most early generation compilers, the error message should probably just say "I am only a machine, please help me!"
@tb how do you tell which comment that is? firefox and safari are both removing the #comment thing from the url
haha
guess it doesn't matter, that isn't a very nice thread at all
 
that guy is not shy
 
No. No he's not.
 
+3/-11
shit hits the fan. a bit. slow fan
 
3:38 PM
@Jack I'm using the SE Modifications with greasemonkey. I just right click on the time stamp of the comment and copy the link.
 
@tb which OS are you using?
 
Hm. @rob: there is an SE iPhone app now.
 
@Gortaur: I think Chrome can natively run those scripts...
 
@AsafKaragila at least one
 
Only Firefox needs a little "Greasing"...
 
3:41 PM
@robjohn Are there more?
 
@JM how should I type the url then for you guys to see the title of it, not the url itself?
 
The title of?
 
@asaf: he knows :p
 
@Gortaur OS X (I dare call it an OS in Asaf's presence).
 
3:43 PM
@JM like t.b. is doing
 
@AsafKaragila I thought I saw more than Six to Eight, but I can't find them now. Maybe I was seeing something and thought it was an app.
 
@tb be brave )
 
@tb cool, that works in safari as a bookmarklet
 
@tb you found that faster than I think I could have. Scary. If I hadn't bookmarked the StackApps site, I would have taken far longer.
@JackSchmidt the JS additions?
 
is there any way to see what posts you've downvoted? i tried to write a query on the data.se site, but apparently i don't have permission to view my votes
@robjohn yup. at least the comment links
i dont know what else it is supposed to do
 
3:47 PM
@JackSchmidt I use them all the time to make writing sizeable posts bearable. :-)
 
oh yeah the mathjax disable was essential to making those 7x7 matrices in my cyclic group reps answer
 
Ugh. ALSA stopped working. I have no sound >:(
 
e a c h l e t t e r w a s t a k i n g f o r e v e r
 
@Asaf: Uh-oh... did you try playing the test sounds in the command line?
 
@JackSchmidt young girls do it fast
 
3:49 PM
I tried about everything. Including reboots and removing pulseaudio.
 
E v E n L i K e T h I s I t H i N k
 
I REBOOTED!!! A LINUX MACHINE!!! IN 2011!!!!! FOR NO GOOD REASON!!!! >>>:(((
2
 
@AsafKaragila once?
 
Once is one too many, in most cases.
 
@Asaf: Not enough exclamation points... ;)
 
3:52 PM
@JM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111oneoneeleven
 
What were you doing before the sound went kaput?
 
I accidentally hit "Mute" and then unmuted from the volume control widget I wrote for Awesome back when I first moved to it.
 
And your widget sucked?
 
However that just mutes/unmutes the Master channel. So it's nothing with actual harm.
 
@JonasTeuwen be aware of transitivity in such statements
 

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